Why is counting STILL going on?

gonedrinking

Someone needs to get their fcuking finger out. What a joke of a country we are when it takes 3 days to count the votes of a small island. I don't understand why they don't just hire more people to do the counting. The same amount of work needs to be done, so instead of hiring a small amount of people for a long period of time, when not hire a larger amount of people for less time, the cost will work out the same.

partyatmygaff

Recounts...

gonedrinking

my point remains

The Brigadier

Dick Roche is a [insert your favorite expletive]

gcgirl

gonedrinking wrote: »

Someone needs to get their fcuking finger out. What a joke of a country we are when it takes 3 days to count the votes of a small island. I don't understand why they don't just hire more people to do the counting. The same amount of work needs to be done, so instead of hiring a small amount of people for a long period of time, when not hire a larger amount of people for less time, the cost will work out the same.

because their are some FFers in denial, Wicklow come back in 5 days i heard their are quite a few solicitors there at the min

gonedrinking

The Brigadier wrote: »

Dick Roche is a [insert your favorite expletive]

Dick Roche is a cockroach.

The Brigadier

gonedrinking wrote: »

Dick Roche is a cockroach.

Surely a cockroche?

He has a point...it was only 3 votes...

d'Oracle

The massive amount of useless independants is probably a factor too.

raymon

The Brigadier wrote: »

Surely a cockroche?

A dickroach:)

Gambler

Yeah, can't wait for him to finally be eliminated but when there are only 3 votes separating you then you'd be crazy not to ask for a recount..

Mushy

Deleted User wrote: »

He has a point...it was only 3 votes...

He is so far behind getting a seat, thats the worst bit. Wasting time cos he cant accept the peopl of Wicklow dont want him.

TheDietShop.ie

I remember last election in west Limerick where there were a good few recounts as it came dowm to 1 vote between 2 members of the FG party.

Their probably could be a better way of getting a result quicker. I still prefer the system we have over any electronic system.

murpho999

gonedrinking wrote: »

Someone needs to get their fcuking finger out. What a joke of a country we are when it takes 3 days to count the votes of a small island. I don't understand why they don't just hire more people to do the counting. The same amount of work needs to be done, so instead of hiring a small amount of people for a long period of time, when not hire a larger amount of people for less time, the cost will work out the same.

Why is it a joke when candidates have used their democratic right and asked for a recount?

Surely it's a sign of our electoral system being fair and right?

Rather have a slight delay to get correct & verified result rather than a rushed wrong result like you would see in some other countries.

I find it a ridiculous exaggeration to claim that a democratic process taking a little bit of extra time in a few constituencies makes the country a joke.

Pherekydes

Mushy wrote: »

He is so far behind getting a seat, thats the worst bit.

Actually, that's not correct. Whichever eFFer is eliminated last has a shot at taking the last seat. So he's only 3 votes shy of having a shot at a seat.

The worst bit is having to eliminate half of Wicklow who decided to run because they couldn't accept that any one of their fellow Wicklow men or women were fit to vote for. Except themselves of course. Ironic, yes?

spank_inferno

I think there is a bit of a "dont push yourself too hard" attitude with the wicklow count,

On Saturday night Wicklow suspended the count at 10:30
Other count centres went on till the small hours.

On Sunday, most remaining counts started at 9am.
Wicklow, liking the lie-in didnt start till 10am

Some ballot boxes also went missing for a while on Saturday!

Roche called for a recount at about 19:30 last night.
It took Wicklow 2 days to eliminate a dozen no hope candidates and their several thousand votes.

I don't have a problem having so many candidates (its healthy imo), I just think its been taken a bit casually compared to other count centres.

Cookie_Monster

Its still going on because backwards Paddy is scared of computers and likes his pencil too much

Mushy

Pherekydes wrote: »

Actually, that's not correct. Whichever eFFer is eliminated last has a shot at taking the last seat. So he's only 3 votes shy of having a shot at a seat.

The worst bit is having to eliminate half of Wicklow who decided to run because they couldn't accept that any one of their fellow Wicklow men or women were fit to vote for. Except themselves of course. Ironic, yes?

They have a shot if they get the vast majority of the others votes. Theyll be in the mix until the next person is eliminated which will shove them back down.

murpho999

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its still going on because backwards Paddy is scared of computers and likes his pencil too much

That's right ...backwards Paddy who discovered that the Dutch e-voting machines where unsafe and unverifiable.

Backward's Paddy, who as a result of this discovery has actually made the Dutch change their voting system back to paper & pencil.

I'm all for e-voting if it works properly but it has been proven that the system is not good enough at the moment

gonedrinking

murpho999 wrote: »

Why is it a joke when candidates have used their democratic right and asked for a recount?

Surely it's a sign of our electoral system being fair and right?

I never said it was a joke that candidates have asked for a recount, I said its a joke that its taking so long, and that more people should of been hired to speed up the process of counting/recounting.

crazyderk

Someone told me there was an issue with the Wicklow voting system that because they had 24 candidates, people were given 2 voting sheets and a rather large number of people voted 1 through 12 on one sheet and 1 through 12 on the second instead of doing 1-24 as a result they don't know if these ballots should be spoiled or not and this is adding to the delay and also legal proceedings could be started due to this problem.

Again this was office talk so I don't know if there is any truth to it or if it is a big of a problem as they say it is

Mushy

crazyderk wrote: »

Someone told me there was an issue with the Wicklow voting system that because they had 24 candidates, people were given 2 voting sheets and a rather large number of people voted 1 through 12 on one sheet and 1 through 12 on the second instead of doing 1-24 as a result they don't know if these ballots should be spoiled or not and this is adding to the delay and also legal proceedings could be started due to this problem.

Again this was office talk so I don't know if there is any truth to it or if it is a big of a problem as they say it is

It was one large piece of paper with all 24 candidates. Wouldnt be surprised if people did them seperately though.

gcgirl

crazyderk wrote: »

Someone told me there was an issue with the Wicklow voting system that because they had 24 candidates, people were given 2 voting sheets and a rather large number of people voted 1 through 12 on one sheet and 1 through 12 on the second instead of doing 1-24 as a result they don't know if these ballots should be spoiled or not and this is adding to the delay and also legal proceedings could be started due to this problem.

Again this was office talk so I don't know if there is any truth to it or if it is a big of a problem as they say it is

thats what a few people did someone i know worked in one of the polling stations and some people even filled the parts where the party crest was suppose to be

d'Oracle

spank_inferno wrote: »

I think there is a bit of a "dont push yourself too hard" attitude with the wicklow count,

On Saturday night Wicklow suspended the count at 10:30
Other count centres went on till the small hours.

On Sunday, most remaining counts started at 9am.
Wicklow, liking the lie-in didnt start till 10am

Some ballot boxes also went missing for a while on Saturday!

Roche called for a recount at about 19:30 last night.
It took Wicklow 2 days to eliminate a dozen no hope candidates and their several thousand votes.

I don't have a problem having so many candidates (its healthy imo), I just think its been taken a bit casually compared to other count centres.

The problem is well over half the ballot were no hopers.
And the ballot was hard to count. It was huge.
24 candidates.

The problem here is Dick and his recount.

BlaasForRafa

Pherekydes wrote: »

Actually, that's not correct. Whichever eFFer is eliminated last has a shot at taking the last seat. So he's only 3 votes shy of having a shot at a seat.

The worst bit is having to eliminate half of Wicklow who decided to run because they couldn't accept that any one of their fellow Wicklow men or women were fit to vote for. Except themselves of course. Ironic, yes?

Neither FF candidate has a hope in hell of getting a seat, thats why its a complete waste of resources....which I suppose in fairness was one thing that FF were able to do.

They are 3300 votes behind the current 5th place candidate and FF have been even more transfer toxic than SF in this election. I can't wait till that spoofer roche is thrown out.

murpho999

gonedrinking wrote: »

I never said it was a joke that candidates have asked for a recount, I said its a joke that its taking so long, and that more people should of been hired to speed up the process of counting/recounting.

Don't think manpower is the issue at all, more to with the complications caused by such a large field of candidates and also Wicklow Returning officer appearing to be doing a meticulous job.

Sometimes things take time and I'm sure we'll have a result soon enough.

Dublin_Gunner

Only if FItzgerald pretty much gets all of the transfers from Roche, will he have a chance of getting a seat.

VERY unlikely. He needs about 3,500 to be in contention.

Roche has been eliminated now according to the RTÉ site (though the recount is still going on).

RachaelVO

Mushy wrote: »

He is so far behind getting a seat, thats the worst bit. Wasting time cos he cant accept the peopl of Wicklow dont want him.

True to a point, but he'd get Fitzgeralds transfers, that's why he called a recount! I know he's entitled to call a recount, but for the sake of having a little bit of dignity he shouldn't. All the candidates are at this minute in the count centre with their agents and solicitors... Making roche look a bit of a big baby...

Ah well, Dick by name Dick by nature!

Chardee MacDennis

RachaelVO wrote: »

True to a point, but he'd get Fitzgeralds transfers, that's why he called a recount! I know he's entitled to call a recount, but for the sake of having a little bit of dignity he shouldn't. All the candidates are at this minute in the count centre with their agents and solicitors... Making roche look a bit of a big baby...

Ah well, Dick by name Dick by nature!

so if he gets in, that would mean that if he hadnt asked for a recount the peoples vote wouldnt have been respected - thats all right when its a candidate you dont like then?

d'Oracle

I saw a bit on RTEs feed that he had actually lost ground on Fitz.

RachaelVO

spank_inferno wrote: »

I think there is a bit of a "dont push yourself too hard" attitude with the wicklow count,

On Saturday night Wicklow suspended the count at 10:30
Other count centres went on till the small hours.

On Sunday, most remaining counts started at 9am.
Wicklow, liking the lie-in didnt start till 10am

Some ballot boxes also went missing for a while on Saturday!

Roche called for a recount at about 19:30 last night.
It took Wicklow 2 days to eliminate a dozen no hope candidates and their several thousand votes.

I don't have a problem having so many candidates (its healthy imo), I just think its been taken a bit casually compared to other count centres.

To be fair to the returning officer, she is trying to help some of the independents get their deposit back that is why she is being so meticulous, which is also why the count was originally taking so long...

Peckham

I'm no fan of Roche and am not here to defend his actions....but having spent a bit of time at the count centre yesterday and talked to a few people involved (on the candidate side), the general perception is that the whole count has been a total shambles.

It was claimed that when votes were being counted, some were done in piles of 50 and some in piles of 100. This led to confusion and delay on Saturday. I also heard that those doing the counting were only briefed yesterday on how to distribute preference votes!

The general feeling yesterday was that a recount was going to happen, and Roche was the first big hitter to be eliminated, so he's the one who called it first. Yes, there's an element of vanity to it, but that shouldn't hide the fact that it's pretty certain this would have happened anyway.

bette

d'Oracle wrote: »

I saw a bit on RTEs feed that he had actually lost ground on Fitz.

He went down 3 votes on the 13th count!

See HERE

He's well out in every sense of the word.

IngazZagni

gonedrinking wrote: »

I never said it was a joke that candidates have asked for a recount, I said its a joke that its taking so long, and that more people should of been hired to speed up the process of counting/recounting.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. There are plenty of people that are counting. Counting would have been finished on day one if it wasn't for multiple recounts and the complexity of certain ballot papers like in Wicklow.

It's not a joke, in fact it highlights the openness of our counting system unlike other e-voting or alternate methods of counting in other Countries that are hidden and could be potentially altered.
Also in the States, there have been some counts that have gone on for months as they take decisions to the courts.

RachaelVO

BastardPrince wrote: »

so if he gets in, that would mean that if he hadnt asked for a recount the peoples vote wouldnt have been respected - thats all right when its a candidate you dont like then?

Pretty much. It's most unlikely that Roche will keep his seat, I don't see either FFer getting a seat even if their votes were transferred.

The most likely result is the 3 FGers 1 Lab and 1 SF, at least that's what I reckon once all the LAB transfers go to Anne Ferris

InTheTrees

Is the RTE website not updating?

Or has wicklow really not even come up with one single seat yet?

Isnt there a national election commission or something that can step in if some district is screwing up?

Chardee MacDennis

RachaelVO wrote: »

Pretty much. It's most unlikely that Roche will keep his seat, I don't see either FFer getting a seat even if their votes were transferred.

The most likely result is the 3 FGers 1 Lab and 1 SF, at least that's what I reckon once all the LAB transfers go to Anne Ferris

i didnt ask what you expected the outcome to be - i just wanted to know if you were aware of your double standards, thats all?

gcgirl

why don't they just get people down from a Dublin count center ?

DailyBlaa

Why doesn't Dick Roche accept the fact he lost. First count eliminated by 3 votes then on the recount it is out to 5 votes. He now wants a full recount. Even if he survived this recount it is highly unlikely he would win a seat.

Einhard

The levels of outraged hysteria over any FF action is a bit unreal. FG has called for a recount in Laois/Offaly, and yet no one is having a go at them for exercising that right. Dick Roche is only slightly behind in a constituency in which there have been many acknowledged problems with the counting of ballots. It's not surprising that he asked for a recount, and it's not at all unreasonable.

As to the OP, what's the hurry? In a world where there are so many dictatorships and autocracies, you really think that our slightly ponderous democratic election process makes us a laughing stock? Seriously? I wonder what that makes the Belgians, still without a government nearly a year after their election...

d'Oracle

Einhard wrote: »

The levels of outraged hysteria over any FF action is a bit unreal. FG has called for a recount in Laois/Offaly, and yet no one is having a go at them for exercising that right. Dick Roche is only slightly behind in a constituency in which there have been many acknowledged problems with the counting of ballots. It's not surprising that he asked for a recount, and it's not at all unreasonable.

He is nearly 2000 votes behind Anne Ferris, who is bringing up the back of the race for seat 5.

The Laois Offaly is very tight indeed, with about 5 candidates within 1000 votes of each other.

One is warranted the other just isn't/

InTheTrees

Einhard wrote: »

As to the OP, what's the hurry? In a world where there are so many dictatorships and autocracies, you really think that our slightly ponderous democratic election process makes us a laughing stock? Seriously? I wonder what that makes the Belgians, still without a government nearly a year after their election...

Its not really a question of hurrying.

Its more like when you're watching someone trying to doing something when they're obviously unable to do so, so at some point you know you'll have to ask whether you can help at all.

I mean if wicklow are unable to do this count how long do we watch them bungling it up before we ask if they could use a little assistance?

The maths much be way beyond their capability.

murpho999

InTheTrees wrote: »

Is the RTE website not updating?

Or has wicklow really not even come up with one single seat yet?

Isnt there a national election commission or something that can step in if some district is screwing up?

No one had reached the quota yesterday as a lot of small candidates had to be eliminated and now a full recount is happening so how do you expect there to be people elected by now?

I'm sure this will all be resolved this evening.

MazG

gcgirl wrote: »

why don't they just get people down from a Dublin count center ?

I imagine because most of those people have gone back to their normal jobs today (Monday).

I would be nice to think that with hundreds of thousands unemployed, the vote counter positions could have been filled by those people. Not the case though, as far as I'm aware.

HarryPotter41

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Neither FF candidate has a hope in hell of getting a seat, thats why its a complete waste of resources....which I suppose in fairness was one thing that FF were able to do.

They are 3300 votes behind the current 5th place candidate and FF have been even more transfer toxic than SF in this election. I can't wait till that spoofer roche is thrown out.

I dislike Roche intensely, but he was right to ask for a recount. The original counts were slow because once you go into transfers with a sheet with 24 names on it it takes very careful checking to ensure that the preference continues correctly. And as Fianna Fail will most likely transfer to Fianna Fail that will lift them up to the 5th place candidate, so that is why he asked for a recount.

gcgirl

MazG wrote: »

I imagine because most of those people have gone back to their normal jobs today (Monday).

I would be nice to think that with hundreds of thousands unemployed, the vote counter positions could have been filled by those people. Not the case though, as far as I'm aware.

They are filled by clerical workers from the Wicklow County Council and if any body has had any dealing with them will know how awfully slow they are

Tenger

I agree that it looks like spite from Roche but I'm sure Fitz (or any other politician) would have done the same if it was reversed.

On the 13th count they had 4135 and 4138 respectively.
Assuming most of the transfers will go to the non-eliminated FF candidate, whoever stays in will jump to at least 8000 votes. This will put them into 4th place out of 9 remaining.
(13th count position: FG-10888, FG-9761, FG-9268, SF-7905, Ind-7495, Lab-6940, Lab-4828, Ind-4639)

However as the 6-9th position candidates are removed their transfers will effect this postion. Not sure who the Independent transfers will go to to but the Labour vote should stay with Labour, so once 1 of them get removed the other (with quota if 100% of transfers go their way) will push the FF candidate into 5th place. So it should be between FF/SF and the last Ind for the 5th seat.

I think Roche is playing the system in a way. If he gets kept in he is hoping that he will get transfers from voters who fill in ALL the boxes on the ballot paper. FF are hoping that transfers from the 2 Independents will go their way. But I think the chance of getting 3000+ transfers from 12000 ballots (2 Ind candidates) may be a bit optimistic. I

It is for this reason that I only filled in 5 on my Dublin ballot, wanted no chance of FF/SF/Green getting my vote.

HarryPotter41

d'Oracle wrote: »

He is nearly 2000 votes behind Anne Ferris, who is bringing up the back of the race for seat 5.

The Laois Offaly is very tight indeed, with about 5 candidates within 1000 votes of each other.

One is warranted the other just isn't/

Whichever FF candidate is eliminated will most likely transfer heavily to the other, that will bring them up probably above Joe Behan and Tom Fortune. If Behan were to be eliminated, as a former FF TD there is a chance that a large transfer could come from him to a continuing FF candidate. If however Tom Fortune is eliminated first ( as there is a chance that Joe Behan could get a heavy transfer from a FF vote ) then FF would not get those transfers. That's why the recount was demanded and everything is not as clear cut as you think.

Dublin_Gunner

Tenger wrote: »

It is for this reason that I only filled in 5 on my Dublin ballot, wanted no chance of FF/SF/Green getting my vote.

The very reason I only filled in 3. Didn't FF/PBP/CSP/Green getting my vote.

I think the chances of FF getting a seat in Wicklow are very slim indeed. They are relying on the remaining candidate getting pretty much ALL of the excluded candidates transfers.

I wonder how many people thought they had to fill in all the spaces?? I'd say there's 10's of 1000's of votes out there being had by mistake.

the groutch

can somebody remind the recounters that we need this done BEFORE March 9th

HarryPotter41

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

The very reason I only filled in 3. Didn't FF/PBP/CSP/Green getting my vote.

I think the chances of FF getting a seat in Wicklow are very slim indeed. They are relying on the remaining candidate getting pretty much ALL of the excluded candidates transfers.

I wonder how many people thought they had to fill in all the spaces?? I'd say there's 10's of 1000's of votes out there being had by mistake.

Remember that the elimnation could also affect the fortunes of the other remianing candidates in the race as to which of them might make it, this doesn't just affect FF.