Dragons Den

Gloomtastic!

I'm a big fan of the BBC's Dragons Den. I've avoided RTE's version of this show but watched the second half of last nights show. Not impressed at all.

The egos are there in abundance but it appears to me that there is no vision or basic common sense when it comes to the Irish dragons. Maybe it was the editing but no one asked about patents on any of the products shown. The Stopcock Cosy at the end they were keen on, could be copied by anyone for a fraction of the cost.

The one I thought had some merit simply because it was a unique solution to a common problem was dismissed out of hand because it was different - the bicycle. A common Irish trait I'm afraid but not one you should be seeing from business people who are claiming they can make a difference.

What do you think?

fishy21

im sure they ask about patents, after all each person can be in there for a and hour or even more alot of the time.

Thats really the difference between england and ireland. Professionalism is of a completely different level.

Smcgie

fishy21 wrote: »

im sure they ask about patents, after all each person can be in there for a and hour or even more alot of the time.

Thats really the difference between england and ireland. Professionalism is of a completely different level.

Couldn't agree with that last line more..

bungler

I love Dragons Den Uk and when i heard they were making an Irish one i was looking forward to it.

BUT when it started it was the biggest joke ever and really makes them look like little boys compared the the UK version.

I have to say the Irish one makes me cringe with the sh1te that goes on

91011

Its originally a Japanese show, syndicated worldwide.

The irish one follows the exact same format as every other one of the programmes around the world, only difference is the dragons, the presenters & the people looking for money.

For the UK show, they look for 5 dragons in a population of 60+ million and "constestants" from the same population pool.

In Ireland, its from a pool of 4 million people.

Guess what, usually when you have a pool of 4million going againta pool of 60+ million, you get a better result from the 60+ million.

That's life.

Now if there was programme on bloody begrudgery.......

Gloomtastic!

91011 wrote: »

Its originally a Japanese show, syndicated worldwide.

The irish one follows the exact same format as every other one of the programmes around the world, only difference is the dragons, the presenters & the people looking for money.

For the UK show, they look for 5 dragons in a population of 60+ million and "constestants" from the same population pool.

In Ireland, its from a pool of 4 million people.

Guess what, usually when you have a pool of 4million going againta pool of 60+ million, you get a better result from the 60+ million.

That's life.

Now if there was programme on bloody begrudgery.......

The size of population is no excuse for lack of quality.

Any person launching a new product to market without a patent is wasting their time and money. That should be rule no. 1 on the show and should be pointed out everytime a new product comes up.

All my business life I've run small companies like big companies. Procedures are followed to the letter and my accounts have been used as test cases for Smurfit Business School - just using Excel spreadsheets.

As others have pointed out here, there is no excuse for lack of professionalism.

iMax

91011 wrote: »

Its originally a Japanese show, syndicated worldwide.

The best one & one I've enjoyed more has been Shark Tank (US Version)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ-zSDjJsPQ

bon ami

You have made the mistake of assuming this is about investment in entrepreneurs. It isn't - its about entertainment and viewing figures. Its exactly the same as The Apprentice - Not only would you never employ any of the applicants you would n't give Bill ,Jackie or the the other Muppet a job either.

They sell advertising

Bandara

bon ami wrote: »

You have made the mistake of assuming this is about investment in entrepreneurs. It isn't - its about entertainment and viewing figures. Its exactly the same as The Apprentice - Not only would you never employ any of the applicants you would n't give Bill ,Jackie or the the other Muppet a job either.

They sell advertising

Exactly, the dragons have not really got much interest and a good few of the 'deals' get canned after the show is aired. It's just good publicity for the dragons and free advertising for them, non to mention the mountain of speaking engagments they get off the back of it.

Havent seen the irish version myself, are the people they have as the Dragons not multi multi millionaires? Surely they have a good eye for a product if they are?
Although The Apprentice is indeed a bit of a sham, Donald Trump in the States with his empire, Alan Sugar with his empire and our guy with a Renault franchise!!

91011

The other thing about these programmes - they're all about the ENTERTAINMENT value.

The odd really good idea may come out of them (reggae reggae sauce), but the vast amount of ideas even those that are invested in are not that brilliant, either here, the UK or anywhere else.

The UK series has been running for about 6 series, how many really good businesses have come out of it in 6 years?? - i'd say half a dozen at tops.

Woodgate

Last sunday's show was very poor, Gavin Duffy was so obnoxious and ignorant in dealing with people, simply say he's out not take the piss out of people. He comes across as an absolute pig.

Mozart1986

None of the Entrepreneurs on the Irish DD is particularly successful. The only one I would trust is Seán Gallagher. The only reason I would go on DD would be to promote the business on national television.

neris

The irish dragons are finacial lightweights compared to the uk guys. The uk guys all have dealt in bigger businesses and seem more solvent then the irish guys. One x dragon here is in trouble with cleaning supply company, the black tie guy has been chased by landlords for rent, a coffee shop owner who had to sell part of his business, ones whos nice market company has lost its market and another guy whos more into grilling people for bill cullen.

tedshredsonfire

I thought about going on purely for the coverage but surely they have a way of sussuing you out first. I would say plenty of them are making more form the speaking end now than their traditional business but there are plenty of businesses in trouble out there so its not new. My major gripe with it and it seems to be directed into them is the corny punchline ie, selling tires and the dragon will say your pitch left me deflated so I am out etc etc, just not funny.

jmcc

Apart from Sean Gallagher, the one thing that keeps going through my mind watching the show and panel of "Dragons" is this: These people are entrepreneurs?

Regards...jmcc

just pete

Oh good god rte, what a joke of a show. I watched it tonight for the simple reason that nothing else was on the box.

Its the last place I would go to look for investment,forget that I would do without it.

Chet Zar

It's amazing the gulf between the English and Irish versions in terms of expertise, the characters/personalities and the editing/overall production..

Anyone else think the Irish 'dragons' are more than a shade greedy - looking for 49/51% stakes...going back on their offers like Norah Casey etc...yuck.

gigino

nothing better on tv on a sunday night

AlkalineAcid

Didn't take any interest in the Irish one after I saw the first episode! I watched the UK one during business studies sometimes and loved it. Thanks to this thread I found out about Shark Tank; it's brilliant.

the explorer

When copmared to the UK dragons the Irish lot really do pale in comparsion, though having said that, I would imagine that it would be pretty hard to get huge names like Denis Obrien or Michael Oleary on, simply because they dont have the time or patience to put effort into a realativly small investment. Therefore we are left with successsful but not titan business people.

also when the irish dragons are about to say i'm out, they always feel the need to throw in a cringeworthy pun based on the persons product.

just pete

the explorer wrote: »

also when the irish dragons are about to say i'm out, they always feel the need to throw in a cringeworthy pun based on the persons product.

Whats that about, its everytime :rolleyes:

ssbob

the explorer wrote: »

also when the irish dragons are about to say i'm out, they always feel the need to throw in a cringeworthy pun based on the persons product.

just pete wrote: »

Whats that about, its everytime :rolleyes:

I think Gavin Duffy used do it in the first season but now the others are continuously mocking him.............

I like it, because it's Irish, it's nice to see up and coming Irish business even if the show is a joke..............

Where else do people go for investment and expertise, you won't get it from a bank?

jetsonx

Mozart1986 wrote: »

None of the Entrepreneurs on the Irish DD is particularly successful. The only one I would trust is Seán Gallagher. The only reason I would go on DD would be to promote the business on national television.

You mean the Sean Gallagher who set up a business selling a niche technology product to builders during a construction boom? AFAIK, he never exported the Smarthomes concept on any large scale and never set-up any other successful businesses. Just because he looks and acts like a cute hoor cattle dealer you would find at any country mart does not make him any different from the other Dragons.

Mozart1986

Sorry, I happen to know his family, so maybe I'm biased, but he started life as an entrepreneur late. It is his values that are impressive to me and although he is not a big hitter, I would be happy to work with him. You don't have to be a millionaire to earn my respect.

The others now, including the English one from the first series, I wouldn't really rate them, mostly accidental boom-time "Bizzness" people. They made money when anyone could make money. I've heard many times that the Blacktie lad doesn't pay his contractors, its been up on Joe Duffy and my Uncle knows people in construction who never got paid by him.

The grey-haired lad that pasted his stupid face on an ad for organic fake tan for women with too much money and no sense is fricken pun'tarded.

None of them saw the bust coming, which makes them careless business people, not real entrepreneurs. Real entrepreneurs take calculated risks, but in the real sense of the word, i.e. to take responsibility, to initiate, or to take something on oneself, they didn't do their calculations.

But as a person, I have a lot of regard for Seán Gallagher, so we can just agree to disagree

StupidLikeAFox

That new woman is a breath of fresh air. She seems like the only one there that isnt trying to be funny or increase her profile, shes there for the actual business end of things.

Also she worked her way up through the publishing industry, which is pretty cutthroat, so she definitely wasnt from the "right place right time" school of business like the others seem to be

Dempo1

I was quite amused at RTE's new promo for this dreadful Muck. "Ireland's most successful and Wealthiest Entrepreneurs", my arse. Most of the Intrepid dragons have had serious financial issues of late, most notably the squirt who runs black tie, Sean Gallagher got badly stung by various developers and lets not mention the former dragonesses little spot of bother with DJ enterprises, i somehow suspect the timing of her departure was quite convenient and well timed in advance of the breaking news of DJ enterprises difficulties.

I suspect RTE would have a wider pool of real success stories, Bring on Dermot Desmond, Micheal O Leary, JP Mc Manus & Michael Flatley, this would be real entertainment.

Gloomtastic!

Watched the second half again on Sunday. As someone has said, there's nothing else on.

Quote of the episode, 'you're not wearing a tie so I'm not going to invest'. What an idiot!

91011

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Quote of the episode, 'you're not wearing a tie so I'm not going to invest'. What an idiot!

But don't forget the context of the quote!

The guy was trying to get investment for business coaching online tv service and appears in what looked like a jacket from a charity shop, a un-ironed shirt and slacks that belonged in the dump. - And he was trying to pitch a Business Coaching service:eek:.

He looked like the type of gouger that asks if you want your driveway done because "we have some tarmac left from a job up the road"

Methinks, he needed to understand a little about self prensentation.

BTW - It IS an entertainment show and as others have said, a serious and good business would not need nor want to go on it. But in saying that the guy with the spare parts idea certainly had one of the better ideas seen on the show.

Gloomtastic!

91011 wrote: »

But don't forget the context of the quote!

The guy was trying to get investment for business coaching online tv service and appears in what looked like a jacket from a charity shop, a un-ironed shirt and slacks that belonged in the dump. - And he was trying to pitch a Business Coaching service:eek:.

He looked like the type of gouger that asks if you want your driveway done because "we have some tarmac left from a job up the road"

Methinks, he needed to understand a little about self prensentation.

BTW - It IS an entertainment show and as others have said, a serious and good business would not need nor want to go on it. But in saying that the guy with the spare parts idea certainly had one of the better ideas seen on the show.

Maybe I need to invest in a bigger TV screen. He looked fine to me.

DubTony

Dempo1 wrote: »

I suspect RTE would have a wider pool of real success stories, Bring on Dermot Desmond, Micheal O Leary, JP Mc Manus & Michael Flatley, this would be real entertainment.

Desmond, O'Leary and McManus are too busy making money ... Flatley's too busy doing [libelous]

Dempo1

DubTony wrote: »

Desmond, O'Leary and McManus are too busy making money ... Flatley's too busy doing [libelous]

LOL:D Yep, i was only taking the Piss, these guys would not darken the door of this dreadful stuff.

zac8

Is Duffy really a marketing expert?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0r5CV5RoII

And whats Bobby's fascination with wheelie bins? A lock for a wheelie bin that can be replaced for free if it's stolen and 4 sides of astroturf to camouflage a bin. I think he also invested in a yoke to compact the contents of a bin when a stick would do the same thing.

It's like a spoof of the UK version.

rainbowdash

The bin trasher takes the biscuit, some lad in Ireland starting making them, charging way more than they can be bought on Ebay UK for.

Amazotheamazing

Never understand their need to be rude to the applicants. It's unprofessional, imo.

Duckjob

UK version is not much better IMO.

I remember seeing one where Peter Jones told a nervous pitcher "they had 2 mins" to consider a joint offer he made with another Dragon. Macho posturing bull**** for the cameras....

jetsonx

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Quote of the episode, 'you're not wearing a tie so I'm not going to invest'. What an idiot!

I agree! This was a stupid and very petty comment by Gavin
Duffy.

But, this is what being a big fish in a small pond can do to somebody's
ego. Some American VC's who would eat Gavin Duffy without salt.

Dempo1

jetsonx wrote: »

I agree! This was a stupid and very petty comment by Gavin
Duffy.

But, this is what being a big fish in a small pond can do to somebody's
ego. Some American VC's who would eat Gavin Duffy without salt.

Poor Gavin is no Big Fish and is having a torrid time in this recession, I have to say however i was impressed with his Radio Presenting skills on RTE during last summer and more recently on Newstalk.

trishasaffron

Fortunately I've only ever caught brief glimpses of this - mostly on the every prevalent ads (do multiple ads mean the programme is doing badly?). It always makes me laugh as I think to myself "do you have to be a fat bald guy with fleshy lips to be an entrepreneur in Ireland?"

trishasaffron

Fortunately I've only ever caught brief glimpses of this - mostly on the every prevalent ads (do multiple ads mean the programme is doing badly?). It always makes me laugh as I think to myself "do you have to be a fat bald guy with fleshy lips to be an entrepreneur in Ireland or does the bald head and fat come after you become an entrepreneur?"

1. I know for a fact that Gavin Duffy is a friend of one of the contestants from the show on Sunday. They live in the same area and move in the same circles and know each other well. She and her business partner were promoting their "Watzdat " Party box (something we all need for our kids in this neverending recession - NOT!!). Gavin nearly jumped out of his seat to offer half the money, before Niall from Blacktie even got a word in and Niall complained about this to Gavin. The hugging and cheek touching when the deal was done was unprecedented and surprising to say the least. Is this right or fair that friends and acquaintainces get on a show like this where their friend is a Dragon or judge or whatever?? It just annoyed me as it could deprive other people of a chance on the show. Should RTE allow this? I just dont think it's fair.

Dempo1

Deleted User wrote: »

1. I know for a fact that Gavin Duffy is a friend of one of the contestants from the show on Sunday. They live in the same area and move in the same circles and know each other well. She and her business partner were promoting their "Watzdat " Party box (something we all need for our kids in this neverending recession - NOT!!). Gavin nearly jumped out of his seat to offer half the money, before Niall from Blacktie even got a word in and Niall complained about this to Gavin. The hugging and cheek touching when the deal was done was unprecedented and surprising to say the least. Is this right or fair that friends and acquaintainces get on a show like this where their friend is a Dragon or judge or whatever?? It just annoyed me as it could deprive other people of a chance on the show. Should RTE allow this? I just dont think it's fair.

Surely this should be reported and if true a blatant conflict of interest and quite disgraceful.

91011

Dempo1 wrote: »

Surely this should be reported and if true a blatant conflict of interest and quite disgraceful.

why is it disgraceful. I know Niall O' Farell & I've supplied Smart Homes with products.

Should I be excluded???

We're a country of 4 million and if begrudgery was an olympic sport, we'd be gold, silver & bronze medals winners every four years.

Get over it, its an entertainment show.

Chet Zar

Deleted User wrote: »

1. I know for a fact that Gavin Duffy is a friend of one of the contestants from the show on Sunday. They live in the same area and move in the same circles and know each other well. She and her business partner were promoting their "Watzdat " Party box (something we all need for our kids in this neverending recession - NOT!!). Gavin nearly jumped out of his seat to offer half the money, before Niall from Blacktie even got a word in and Niall complained about this to Gavin. The hugging and cheek touching when the deal was done was unprecedented and surprising to say the least. Is this right or fair that friends and acquaintainces get on a show like this where their friend is a Dragon or judge or whatever?? It just annoyed me as it could deprive other people of a chance on the show. Should RTE allow this? I just dont think it's fair.

Why on earth would this be an issue whatsoever? Would you prefer that a business isn't created, that jobs are potentially not created?

I'm sure if people really want to get on the show, they'll get on the show.

AlkalineAcid

Chet Zar wrote: »

Why on earth would this be an issue whatsoever? Would you prefer that a business isn't created, that jobs are potentially not created?

I'm sure if people really want to get on the show, they'll get on the show.

I think if they did know each other then he should've just invested in his own time, not on tv. It may be the the free publicity that's unfair.

BnB

AlkalineAcid wrote: »

I think if they did know each other then he should've just invested in his own time, not on tv. It may be the the free publicity that's unfair.

Unfair on who...???

Its not a public service. It's a fregging Entertainment show.

On Dragons Den in general, I too would be more of a fan of the UK one. Better pitches and better dragons. The Irish one isn't too bad though. It's better than 95% of the crapola that's on.

AlkalineAcid

BnB wrote: »

Unfair on who...???

We regret that an employee or contractor of Screentime ShinAwiL or RTE or Bank of Ireland or of the Dragons or the presenter of the series or a close relation (ie. a father, mother, sister, brother, guardian, wife, husband, partner) of a Screentime ShinAwiL/RTE/Bank of Ireland/dragon employee or contractor or of the presenter of the Series are not eligible to apply and you undertake to make immediate and full disclosure to Screentime ShinAwil of any other pre-existing connection you may have with any of the Dragons or the presenter of the Series.

:rolleyes:

TheMilkyPirate

AlkalineAcid wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The contestant was none of the relations that were listed as not eligible for application.

AlkalineAcid

I didn't see the episode myself but if they were friends as sweetmaggie says then they probably should've been made ineligible because of that connection.

Deleted User wrote: »

I know for a fact that Gavin Duffy is a friend of one of the contestants from the show on Sunday. They live in the same area and move in the same circles and know each other well.

jmcc

zac8 wrote: »

Is Duffy really a marketing expert?

That's open to debate. He's very good at marketing himself though. He gives the impression that he's one of these DJs who thinks that he's more important than the music he plays and talks over the intros and the end of each track.

And whats Bobby's fascination with wheelie bins?

Apparently he had a factory that was manufacturing some bin compactor device and this would have been a similar product.

It's like a spoof of the UK version.

The UK one seems to have real players instead of a bunch of people who think that being a property developer in a bubble that's become little more than a wet fart is being an "entrepreneur".

The big problem with most of the stuff that appears on the Irish Dragons Den is that they are not even cottage industry businesses - they are just kitchen table part-time businesses. There are some real gems that would scale well internationally though but they are wasted on the panel who seem to be looking for businesses on the level of small town markets.

Regards...jmcc

Hey 91011 and Chet Zar
- sorry but its not begrudgery - in that case I would be giving out about everyone's ideas just because they were not mine!! Fair play to people who get on the show. Its just that someone who is a friend surely has an unfair advantage. That's all. You might have supplied Smart Homes and know Niall O Farrell but you did that on your own steam - not on a TV show where you an audience and lots of publicity over many other hopefuls. Thats my only point. TV companies should be careful about that kind of thing.
Its a bit like canvassing for a job when you know the boss - its always going to upset someone. And this upset me. Sorry.
(p.s. I also happen to think Gavin Duffy is getting bigger for his boots as the weeks go on and is rude and condescending - more so than the others. He is not funny but gets a kick of putting people down. Sean Gallagher is the nicest person on it!)