It Beggars Belief...

VolvoMan

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1936800

The above car has developed a computer fault which is supposedly costly to fix, but somehow it's 'cheaper' to trade it in under the scrappage scheme and spend thousands on a brand new car instead.

mickdw

Its hardly outrageous tbh. Person has old car. Old car is costing alot of money to repair and person figures they may be as well to put that cash towards a new car instead of throwing money at something that will still be worth little even if repaired. The scrappage then makes it even more desireable specially to people who want to buy new.

Nonoperational

Ah well in fairness you'd be spending big money fixing a 12 year old car. If you had any intentions of getting a new car it's a good oppertunity.

kona

Sounds stolen to me.

VolvoMan

VolvoMan wrote: »

, but somehow it's 'cheaper' to trade it in under the scrappage scheme and spend thousands on a brand new car instead.

No one said it's cheaper
The owner may well reckon it's beyond economical repair and they just fancy a brand new car. Fair play to them for selling bits off it, would be handy if someone near them fancied the alloys or whatever.

Atlantic Dawn

It's a 1999 Volvo V40 worth at max €1500 in full working order. A major computer fault with new ECU required could cost as much as this so it's not worth fixing.

johnos1984

Am I mistaken in thinking that a car has to be complete when being traded in under the scrappage scheme?

If it didn't couldn't you just roll in a shell that has tax and nct?

VolvoMan

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's a 1999 Volvo V40 worth at max €1500 in full working order.

It looks like a T4 though.

In fairness though, you are seeing a lot of mad things happening during this scrappage scheme. There are people out there who are thinking it makes financial sense to scrap their 12 year old car against a new one for the cheaper road tax, taking out a huge loan in the process.

andyseadog

johnos1984 wrote: »

Am I mistaken in thinking that a car has to be complete when being traded in under the scrappage scheme?

If it didn't couldn't you just roll in a shell that has tax and nct?

i think it doesnt matter as long as its tested and been taxed recently.

what makers slogan was 'push, pull or drag your car to our showrooms to avail of the scrappage scheme'. nissan maybe?

johnos1984

VolvoMan wrote: »

It looks like a T4 though.

In fairness though, you are seeing a lot of mad things happening during this scrappage scheme. There are people out there who are thinking it makes financial sense to scrap their 12 year old car against a new one for the cheaper road tax, taking out a huge loan in the process.

My brother in laws 2001 CLK320 with 60k miles and full service history is being scrapped against an IX35 tomorrow

Nobody wants it or was offering ridiculous money for it

VolvoMan

johnos1984 wrote: »

My brother in laws 2001 CLK320 with 60k miles and full service history is being scrapped against an IX35 tomorrow

What can I say, that's shocking.

Is there no convincing him at all? I mean, the ix35 is a heap of disposable sh1t like the rest of the Hyundai range. I'm no fan of the CLK, but it would be an insult to scrap it against one of them.

johnos1984

VolvoMan wrote: »

Is there no convincing him at all?

One owner from new and all.
New child forces sale, I tried to save it from the scrappage scheme as did a couple of salemen in fairness to them but he was ultimately getting the best deal scrapping it (€3500). He hasn't anywhere to store it for a sale later on and the few tyre kickers that did come were all offering poor money as it was a big engine blah blah blah.

The last fella I ran for saying it as the ad clearly stated what it was.

unkel

VolvoMan wrote: »

What can I say, that's shocking.

Is there no convincing him at all? I mean, the ix35 is a heap of disposable sh1t like the rest of the Hyundai range. I'm no fan of the CLK, but it would be an insult to scrap it against one of them.

Couldn't agree more

I hate the scrappage scheme. It's the most wasteful solution to an environmental problem that doesn't even exist. Any car enthusiast would be brought close to tears if they looked at the cars scrapped in the US version of the scrappage scheme :mad:

No point in blaming people for using it though. As RoverJames said, if the value of the vehicle in the open market makes it uneconomical to repair it (with many repairs on modern-ish cars being quite expensive), and the scrappage value being higher than the cars value, what else can you expect the owner to do?

andyseadog

the scrappage scheme is also doings its best to breath life into an otherwise dying motor industry.

2 sides to every coin.

johnos1984

andyseadog wrote: »

the scrappage scheme is also doings its best to breath life into an otherwise dying motor industry.

2 sides to every coin.

People who normally can't afford a new car drive older ones*

These same people are going out and getting loans to buy new ones as their old ones are worth thousands which normally they wouldn't do or couldn't afford to do.......

Its 2007 all over again.

*yes I know many people drive them as they want to or for many other reasons but they also are unlikely to trade their bangernomics luxo barge in for an i10

VolvoMan

johnos1984 wrote: »

People who normally can't afford a new car drive older ones*

These same people are going out and getting loans to buy new ones as their old ones are worth thousands which normally they wouldn't do or couldn't afford to do.......

Its 2007 all over again.

*yes I know many people drive them as they want to or for many other reasons but they also are unlikely to trade their bangernomics luxo barge in for an i10

That's really my point exactly. I doubt the owner of that V40 would be any way inclined to buy a new car if the scheme wasn't in place.

johnos1984

VolvoMan wrote: »

That's really my point exactly. I doubt the owner of that V40 would be any way inclined to buy a new car if the scheme wasn't in place.

Inclined or not many people seem to be missing the point of saving money and spending money.

Without knowing the owners situation they may be better off selling parts and trading up a few years or repairing it.

I understand the economically viable bit as well but it all depends how well the car has been looked after.

andyseadog

andyseadog wrote: »

the scrappage scheme is also doings its best to breath life into an otherwise dying motor industry.

2 sides to every coin.

Plenty of other industries are also in trouble though unfortunately. Schemes like the scrappage scheme aren't sustainable (nor should they be really). Is it fair that the working population get stung for a few hundred a month (social welfare also cut) and those who can finance 90% ish of a new car themselves get a government dig in for the rest of it? Plenty of hairdressers, restaurants, pubs and retail outlets are struggling to stay afloat, why does the folks selling new cars get a helping hand from the state coffers (which are in the red)?

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

My brother in laws 2001 CLK320 with 60k miles and full service history is being scrapped against an IX35 tomorrow

Nobody wants it or was offering ridiculous money for it

How much of the €3500 would they still knock off with the Merc not being scrapped?

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

why does the folks selling new cars get a helping hand from the state coffers (which are in the red)?

But this is also good for the state coffers.

Many of the cars sold would not have been if it wasn't for the scrappage allowance. The state gets its share of VAT and VRT from these sales. Then there's tax from the people kept in a job.

The main area I can see them losing on is probably motor tax as scrappage cars are band A and B.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

But this is also good for the state coffers.

Many of the cars sold would not have been if it wasn't for the scrappage allowance. The state gets its share of VAT and VRT from these sales. Then there's tax from the people kept in a job.

The main area I can see them losing on is probably motor tax as scrappage cars are band A and B.

You can apply that logic to anything, why not subsidise haircuts, 42" TVs, A la carte meals out, night club entry etc etc. Taking hundreds off working folk each month as the coffers are empty and then offering a scrappage scheme does not make sense. Also as you mention road tax, the CLK John refers to is worth more to the goverment on the road than the Hyundai replacing it.

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

You can apply that logic to anything, why not subsidise haircuts, 42" TVs, A la carte meals out, night club entry etc etc. Taking hundreds off working folk each month as the coffers are empty and then offering a scrappage scheme does not make sense. Also as you mention road tax, the CLK John refers to is worth more to the goverment on the road than the Hyundai replacing it.

Eh, no. The logic to the thinking is very diferent. Those examples are subject to VAT (and not exactly comparable). Cars are subject to both VAT and VRT. It's an easy money spinner for the country. Also, not all the cars scrapped will be 3.2 litres so the difference in motor tax will be smaller. That's a pretty extreme example but valid none the less. People will aslo be contributing to an industry with servicing etc. over the coming years.

People complain about the scrappage but in reality it's a complete no brainer.

shamwari

RoverJames wrote: »

Plenty of other industries are also in trouble though unfortunately. Schemes like the scrappage scheme aren't sustainable (nor should they be really). Is it fair that the working population get stung for a few hundred a month (social welfare also cut) and those who can finance 90% ish of a new car themselves get a government dig in for the rest of it? Plenty of hairdressers, restaurants, pubs and retail outlets are struggling to stay afloat, why does the folks selling new cars get a helping hand from the state coffers (which are in the red)?

I agree with you James that there are many irish industries, individual businesses and the ordinary taxpayer and social welfare recepient which are struggling through great and genuine difficulty, and such businesses have little or no reliance on state assistance to keep themselves going. However I think that the scrappage scheme is something that is adding value to the economy and generating business on the back of a tax concession rather than a costly subsidy. It is creating business which otherwise would not happen, and the government is benefitting from a tax take which otherwise woulde not occur. The government gets something, the motor trade gets something, the customer gets a discounted motor and cheaper road tax, and the car that was scrapped creates downstream earnings for those dismantling and scrapping same.

I would point to the situation in the UK where their scrappage scheme finished in the middle of last year. Their motor trade has been very much in the doldrums ever since. I don't think it would be in the interests of our motor trade and the motoring public generally if the scrappage scheme were discontinued.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

Eh, no. ................
People complain about the scrappage but in reality it's a complete no brainer.

Eh, no ......... I didn't read the rest of it when you opened like that
I don't appreciate being spoken to like I'm a retard.

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

Eh, no ......... I didn't read the rest of it when you opened like that
I don't appreciate being spoken to like I'm a retard.

If you think so...but comparing a car, which is a necessity to many to luxury items is like comparing apples with oranges. Many people will go all out on a car but the limiting to bands A and B on motor tax would imply a lot of the people availing of the scheme are after basic transport.

As it's a no cost stimulus package I think it's great and should be continued for the foreseeable future.

Satanta

I really dont see the issue. Even with the 2001 CLK320. sounds like he had it for sale, couldn't get a decent offer and therefore it's sensible to scrap. As for the volvo, it could cost him what it's worth to fix in the first place. without the scrappage scheme there would be a hell of a lot (more) garages shutting down.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

If you think so...but comparing a car, which is a necessity to many to luxury items is like comparing apples with oranges..

A new car is a luxury not a necessity. A new car is most definitely more of a luxury than a haircut, 42" TV or a night out. I don't see how it's no cost either, for every new car that replaces a 10 year old car in more case than not an independent mechanic/garage has lost a customer for 3 years ish and as the new thing should require nothing but oil changes and tires for that period the garage that sold it won't be making much on servicing either. Then factor in the reduced road tax (in most cases) over say 5 years coupled with presumably greater fuel efficiency and longterm the only gain is the initial sale and VRT (which won't be huge on most of the sub €15,000 yokes that scrappage folks avail of).

Padraig Mor

johnos1984 wrote: »

One owner from new and all.
New child forces sale, I tried to save it from the scrappage scheme as did a couple of salemen in fairness to them but he was ultimately getting the best deal scrapping it (€3500). He hasn't anywhere to store it for a sale later on and the few tyre kickers that did come were all offering poor money as it was a big engine blah blah blah.

The last fella I ran for saying it as the ad clearly stated what it was.

He should/will get €2250 of that "scrappage" discount (at least) if he buys straight. Private sale the CLK for any more than €1250 and he's quids in. Surely be to God someone will pay more than €1250 for a barely broken in CLK320?

**** it, I'm getting tempted.......

mickdw

The merc CLK example is a disgrace. Ok so he get 3500 off by scrapping it. Surely, the dealer would be able to knock 2000 for a straight deal without sccrappage so he only needs 1500 for a private sale on the merc. That one doesnt make any sense to me anyway.

I think the main issue is that John's friend/relation has no where to keep the car after he gets his new one, in saying that for €1500 you'd expect that someone would pay a few hundred deposit and agree to meet at the Hyundai garage to collect the new car.

unkel

The scrappage scheme is far from a no brainer. People buying a new car through the scrappage scheme could also afford to buy a new car without the scrappage scheme. It's just a nice little subsidy to them. Without the scrappage scheme they probably would have bought a new car any way. Maybe not this year but perhaps next year...

The waste to the environment of scrapping relatively modern perfectly good cars and replace them with pieces of crap shipped from the other side of the world is immense.

Eh, no......... they're a necessity to many you see :pac:

(joke)

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

Eh, no......... they're a necessity to many you see :pac:

(joke)

A car is a necessity to many. If most people didnt need a car they wouldnt have one. Anyone I know that's has availed of the scheme has bought an econobox for doing an essential a to b role.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

A car is a necessity to many. If most people didnt need a car they wouldnt have one. Anyone I know that's has availed of the scheme has bought an econobox for doing an essential a to b role.

A car is a necessity no doubt, a NEW car isn't.

Gophur

RoverJames wrote: »

A car is a necessity no doubt, a NEW car isn't.

Where do you think used cars from from?

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

A car is a necessity no doubt, a NEW car isn't.

But there is often better value for money availing of the scrappage. A new Clio for 8.5k with plenty of warranty is attractive. Anyway, I'm not questioning or trying to justify peoples reasons for purchasing a new car. My original point was that it is doing it's purpose of stimulating a sector of the economy while at the same time adding to the coffers is a good plan. Goof forward tax take may be down but a lot (not all) of the cars coming off the road are past it too and would need replacig at some stage in the not too distant future.

Gophur

Gophur wrote: »

Where do you think used cars from from?

Not a clue to be honest, couldn't give less of a sh1t either :pac:

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

He should/will get €2250 of that "scrappage" discount (at least) if he buys straight. Private sale the CLK for any more than €1250 and he's quids in. Surely be to God someone will pay more than €1250 for a barely broken in CLK320?

**** it, I'm getting tempted.......

Is the scrappage not state funded though and therefore would buying a car through the scheme not be the equivalent of a straight deal and open to further dealer discounts?

Padraig Mor

Louisa Melted Jacket wrote: »

Is the scrappage not state funded though and therefore would buying a car through the scheme not be the equivalent of a straight deal and open to further dealer discounts?

Yeah, but the actual state scrappage is only €1250. The rest is manufacturer/dealer discount dressed up as scrappage and should be available to all.

Actually, just looked at the Hyundai website: the 'official' scrappage consists of €1250 govt + €750 Hyundai. Guess the dealer is throwing in €1500 as well.

Gophur

unkel wrote: »

The scrappage scheme is far from a no brainer. People buying a new car through the scrappage scheme could also afford to buy a new car without the scrappage scheme. It's just a nice little subsidy to them. Without the scrappage scheme they probably would have bought a new car any way. Maybe not this year but perhaps next year...

.............

How, so, can you explain why such people were/are driving 10 year old cars that are worth €1,500 or €1,250, or less?

I would say most all of these people were not buyers of new cars, and unlikely to be, until they are now offered much more than their old car is worth.

From the Govt POV the scheme is self-financing.

As for the 2001 Merc CLK 230 ? That's just a sin, such a car should not be scrapped.

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yeah, but the actual state scrappage is only €1250. The rest is manufacturer/dealer discount dressed up as scrappage and should be available to all.

Actually, just looked at the Hyundai website: the 'official' scrappage consists of €1250 govt + €750 Hyundai. Guess the dealer is throwing in €1500 as well.

Thanks, I have never actually looked at the in and outs of it, just heard stories here and in real life of people getting in and around 3000 euro off new cars and I presumed that's about how much the state were providing.

Gophur

Gophur wrote: »

I would say most all of these people were not buyers of new cars, and unlikely to be, until they are now offered much more than their old car is worth.

They get €1250 for it, the rest is dealer discount which they'd get without any car to scrap. Lots of yokes being scrapped would fetch the guts of €1250 privately.

VolvoMan

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Actually, just looked at the Hyundai website: the 'official' scrappage consists of €1250 govt + €750 Hyundai. Guess the dealer is throwing in €1500 as well.

Surely the dealer would give that 1500 euro off anyway if pushed?

Like the UK scheme, I reckon more good cars are going to be taken off the road than bad. This is going to have a knock-on effect for the mechanics trade as well as private independent motor factors.

Padraig Mor

VolvoMan wrote: »

Surely the dealer would give that 1500 euro off anyway if pushed?
.

Exactly my point! Sell the CLK for anything more than €1250 and he'll be better off...

johnos1984

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Exactly my point! Sell the CLK for anything more than €1250 and he'll be better off...

To be better off he would of had to get €2250.

I agree it is a sin to scrap such a good car but what can he do. It was advertised, people called thinking they would get a bargain and they were offered it at the correct value and they offered less. Not much can be done about that. He didn't want to keep it and have every Joe Soap turning up wasting his time in the chance he would save the car or make a few hundred quid more.

As for getting a better deal the garage were unwilling to drop the price unless it was in under the scrappage scheme. Why i don't know but that was that as they were offered the deal. They offered a discount of €1250 which I assume is the offer to double the scrappage deal, or better still part of the margin they can play with

I didn't want to scrap the car and neither did he as it was too good to scrap but such is life.

And for those with an interest in the CLK, the Hyundog is now on the driveway I'm afraid.

Thumbpilot

Johnos,

My wife is in the market for an ix35 with scrappage, can I ask what the drive away price including scrappage was?

I've noticed dealers quoting scrappage then adding in delivery and metalic paint etc often bringing the price up by more than 1,300.

Why don't they just say what the actual price is? Imagine if every other business did this. Price + delivery may be extra etc

johnos1984

€22500 from Rathdown Motors in Terenure Dublin AFAIK

He may of gotten a little bit more off as I wasn't there for the final deal

Thumbpilot

Thank you - pays to shop around, local garage offering €24,000 but may drop a couple of hundered if pushed. Must shop around and give Rathdown a call.

Thanks

johnos1984

Thumbpilot wrote: »

Thank you - pays to shop around, local garage offering €24,000 but may drop a couple of hundered if pushed. Must shop around and give Rathdown a call.

Thanks

They have a stock of them at the minute in a separate yard so there is a good choice of colours also.

Nice salesman and was straight up about the price. He undercut the nearest by 2500 :eek:

peasant

Another downside of the scrappage deal thingy is that it massively distorts second hand prices for those people who traditionally buy a new car every two or threee years (and therefore have nothing to scrap)

Cars that used to be worth in and around 50% of their new price after 3 years are now only worth 50% of the new price minus double scrappage deal ...there goes another 10 - 20 % depreciation