Fine Gael are little better

ChocolateSauce

I think Fine Gael have great deal of nerve acting like they wouldn't have gotten the country into this mess had they been in power. FF was in power for the last 13 years because they adopted many of FG's 90's policies.

In other words, as usual, the only difference between the two is which side of the peace treaty they were on. Had FG been at the helm these last 13 years, the exact same thing would have happened, and it is madness to think that their programme of more of the same will fix anything. This hasn't been a vote for change, this has been a vote for continuity.

Edit: To clarify, I'm not in any way a FF supporter, and never have been.

meglome

Can you add this to one of the other threads saying the exact same thing.

Balmed Out

ff are far to the left of fg.

Seth Brundle

FF feeling bitter at being rejected?
Maybe if they examined themselves a little closer rather than focusing on others they might see what most others see.

darragh16

Of course they point in fingers and blame FF for the past 14 years, saying it would never happen, they seen the boom coming etc.

Here's a few snippets from their 2007 manifesto:

- Increase the Old Age Pension to €300.
- Extend medical cards to 100,000 more families.
- Free medical insurance for all under 16.
- Free GP visits for children under 5.
- Cut 20% tax rate to 18%
- Cut stamp duty to help first time buyers and growing families.
- Sell State land where appropriate for the provision of more social and affordable housing.

Basically just giving money away on the back of an economy fuelled by an unsustainable housing boom. Yet they reject this very much.

bladespin

They weren't in power, they didn't make the mistakes that FF did, those are the facts. TBH the problem here wasn't FF, it's political laziness from the electorate; who cares who's in charge as long as I'm doing ok, all well and fine but when you leave the same people incharge for 16 years without question, don't expect them to be performing at their best, change is always needed, even if just to keep them on their toes.

If (it's a huge if) FF were to be re-elected in 5 years time, I'd bet they would perform their duties a lot more diligently than they did over, say, the past 7 years.

The Waltzing Consumer

Give it a rest OP, how many of these useless threads will there be. Judge Labour and FG on their time IN POWER, not when they were not in command.

The policies of FG and Labour coalitions helped build an Ireland with full employment, high education standards and one of the best qualities of life in the world. So I can see how you would dislike that. :rolleyes:

The recession happened, get over it, every country goes through them, it is how you rebuild which is important.

johngalway

Zero substance thread, just more FF delusions.

meglome

I'll just quote myself from one of the other threads.

meglome wrote: »

I am truly and utterly sick of the 'they are all the same' shíte. I don't expect politicians to be perfect but a bunch of untrained chimps couldn't get it as wrong as FF. I keep hearing that FG will be as bad but no real explanation as to why that is so. People seem to forget that FG went against benchmarking in 2002 (you know the thing that all the money was píssed away on) and the electorate nearly wiped them out. Which led to everyone promising everything in 2007. It's very clear to me we've been getting the governments we deserve but not because they are all the same.

CiaranC

FG are cut from the same cloth as FF.

Dont blame me I voted for Kronos.

GuanYin

Interesting AP article about FF and FG politicians that has been circulated to some major broadsheets (Telegraph and FT so far) highlights the fact that many of the TDs are from non professional political backgrounds (ie. former schoolteachers, lawyers, MD's etc) or "inherited" seats from family.

While FF and FG are indeed cut from much the same cloth in this regard, the indication thus far is that FG rhetoric, at least, seems straighter.

FG haven't had a chance to govern for any stable period in such a long time, I find it laughable that anyone can claim whether they will be better or worse. Time will be the only telling factor there.

True, many may say FG would have fared just as badly, but it's the ones with the chances who reap the rewards and the scorn, so it's a bit disingenuous to make that case against them.

loldog

Useless thread.

.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RachaelVO

How do we know FG will be equally as dire for the country as FF???

Their policies are thought out, trying to correct the mistakes of FF. Whether they will ever implement them remains to be seen, I'm not to sure that they have the balls to pull them off. It probably will be the same ol, same ol but I hope to god with a strong SF and Labour showing that they can act as some sort of moral conscience in the Dail and that changes that are advantageous to ALL will happen in the next few years!

Time will tell, lets just hope...

Ruire

CiaranC wrote: »

Dont blame me I voted for Kronos.

Surely you mean Kodos...

CiaranC

telekon wrote: »

Prove it or shut the hell up. :mad:

I am going to reserve my judgement until 2016. We have no idea how they will perform. FF supporters are either thick or deluded, they seem to forget that their party was in government for 21 out of the past 24 years!!! For this reason alone, you can't judge what FG will be like.

I have an inkling how they will perform. You'd swear FG were a brand new party or something.

They are exactly the same as FF. Slightly more thatcherite and slightly less corrupt maybe, but essentially a collection of ex-schoolteachers whos daddys used to own their seats going round the houses promising old biddys that they'll fix the roads and get their granddaughter into the civil service.

Hasschu

The more things change the more they stay the same. Since 1922 FF and FG have alternated in power, both parties are a little right of centre. FG supported and will continue to support the bail out of the banks, developers and members of the Irish oligarchy. The policy that is guaranteed to be followed is the privatisation of loss and the socialisation of gain. So if we have no delusions of rescue by Enda we will be on the right track. The oligarchy will be taken care of, the rest will be forking out taxes to support banks, developers, speculators and politicians who invested in schemes that could not lose.

The only glimmer of light is that FG and the party that supports it will be exposed in the same way that FF was. FG should be propped up by strategic absences of the opposition from the Dail. In other words give them enough rope and fate will unfold as it should. Labour of course will be drawn like a moth to the flame and will suffer the same fate as the Greens in the next election.

ChocolateSauce

So I think FG and FF are pretty much the same and I'm somehow a FF apologist? FG are a little better, I don't deny, and I hated FF before the recession I assure you all.

My point, perhaps a bit too subtle, was that replacing a centre-right party with a centre-right party is useless, and that it is high hopes to suppose FG will actually do anything differently, with the thankful exception of the corruption. Mainly I'm disappointed that so many people decided simply to change the flavour of their government rather than the substance.

telekon

CiaranC wrote: »

I have an inkling how they will perform. You'd swear FG were a brand new party or something.

They are exactly the same as FF. Slightly more thatcherite and slightly less corrupt maybe, but essentially a collection of ex-schoolteachers whos daddys used to own their seats going round the houses promising old biddys that they'll fix the roads and get their granddaughter into the civil service.

Oh thats that then...why didn't you say you had this 'inkling' before?? Case closed. Lock the thread, nothing to see here...

Tim Robbins

Balmed Out wrote: »

ff are far to the left of fg.

The failure is nothing to do with left / right. It was to do with clientelism and cronism.

There are plenty of governments in the world which are centre left or centre right and are far better than our's.

erictheviking1

ooh! Touchy! FF and FG are 2 sides of the same coin. Anyone who feels everything is going to magically change now is deluded. It seems only working class Dublin and the other urban areas in the country has kopped on and given both FF and FG the brush off! Both parties are on a downhill slope, they will eventually be replaced by the normal leftwing/right wing parties.
The next election will see FG getting exactly what FF got in this one so if I was a Fine gael supporter I'd ease down on the smugness.

CiaranC

Hasschu wrote: »

The policy that is guaranteed to be followed is the privatisation of loss and the socialisation of gain.

Think you have that the wrong way round.

Essentially though, in the rest of your post you are right. Absolutely nothing of substance changes with FG coming in.

And this country is still headed for bankruptcy, doesnt matter if we elected the monster raving loony party.

Centaur

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Strange you should acknowledege this now. When I pointed out in a previous thread that this is exactly how Ruairi Quinn ran the public finances you chose to attack me as part of your FG agenda.

Laminations

If you had two doctors and one kills the patient and then the other fails to revive him you cannot say they are both the same. I'm not expecting a miracle recovery. I'm not making excuses for the new government but they are working with a pack of sh1t. FF started with a pot of gold in the 90s and turned it into sh1t. So all I expect is competence, decisiveness and clarity from the new government.

And I expect the pathetic sadsacks of FF who were voted in by Irish traitors to sit quietly in the Dail as a reminder to all politicians of what happens if they mess up- of course this message wouldve been far clearer had the number been just 2 or 3 but some people dont care about accountability for killing the patient, they just shout about solutions in the hope it'll distract from why we need solutions.

Hasschu

CiaranC wrote: »

Think you have that the wrong way round.

Essentially though, in the rest of your post you are right. Absolutely nothing of substance changes with FG coming in.

And this country is still headed for bankruptcy, doesnt matter if we elected the monster raving loony party.

You are right.

Balmed Out

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The failure is nothing to do with left / right. It was to do with clientelism and cronism.

There are plenty of governments in the world which are centre left or centre right and are far better than our's.

I dont see how on earth you got the impression that I felt the problems were due to ff's ideology. The op feels that ff and fg are the same. I was simply pointing out that they are actually quite different, fg are far to the right and id consider ff and labour to be far more similar. I am not saying that any of this has any bearing on whats happened.