Waving goodbye to FF

Laminations

I think most people here and in the country generally wanted FF seriously punished in this election as they recognised the damage done by the party over the last 10 years. So it looks like a whipping is taking place, not quite the death of the party but enough to shame them all. So to complete the catharsis it would be nice to give them a slow clap as they exit government.

Where are the FF party having their post election get-together?
Will die hard supporters now distance themselves from the party because they were really addicted to power and not FF?

How will you wave goodbye to FF?
Are you glad at wht has happened to them and do you think its been enough?

th3 s1aught3r

They arent going anywhere :rolleyes:

starbelgrade

They just won the first seat of the general election & all indications are showing that they will win quite a few more before the weekend is out.

ankaragucu

Yes they are mate.They're going out of power.For a very long time.

The Mad Hatter

starbelgrade wrote: »

They just won the first seat of the general election & all indications are showing that they will win quite a few more before the weekend is out.

What? I've had RTÉ on all morning and haven't heard anything about any seats being won yet...

later12

Fianna Fail are going to be the biggest opposition part in the chamber. That gives them the best platform possible from which to rebuild.

The best thing that could have happened to FF today was for FG not to realise an overall majority, and that is being borne out.

What can still make FF irrelevant today is Eamon Gilmore coming out and saying he would head up the opposition, which would really sideline Fianna Fail. Eamon Gilmore won't do that, because Eamon Gilmore wants to be Tanaiste.

starbelgrade

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

What? I've had RTÉ on all morning and haven't heard anything about any seats being won yet...

It's on their website.

Oh, no ... hang on. It says "seats won = FF 1 seat", but thats the Ceann Comhairle's automatically re-elected seat.

Apologies if I gave anyone a heart attack!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dirk Gently

I'm hoping at least Dublin has banished the traitors. No doubt our country cousins will keep voting their tribe in though. I have my fingers crossed for a FF free Dublin.

Killer Pigeon

FF are absolutely destroyed in Dublin with traditional FF heartlands being decimated, even Brian Lenihan is struggling to keep his seat! Plus a big swing for Labour!

Go on the Dubs!!!

c montgomery

ankaragucu wrote: »

Yes they are mate.They're going out of power.For a very long time.

I would like to agree with you, i just dont think that its true.


If FG/Lab take the poisoned chalice and go into government tougher FF will be the largest opposition. FG/Lab are going to have to take some horrendous decisions and will lose popularity over the coming years. FF will oppose everything that the new government do and when it come to the next election FF will be much stronger.

I bet next it wont be long before we have a FF/Lab government once the FG/Lab one falls.

Biggins

What has become obvious and it was stated from the media is that the remaining support for FF is rural and is coming from the aging population. The youth and middle aged of Ireland have dumped them in their droves.

This means that is Michael martin wishes to build up the party again, he can only rely on more so higher percentage of aging dying numbers that will not pass their political views to their youth, who clearly do not want them.

The youth and middle aged for the future are looking else where and will remember more so the corruption, cronyism and antics of FF - meanwhile the tribalism of the remaining dying existing supporters are sticking by their tribalism to FF and they are growing older by the day and dying off.
...And thats the truth of the matter.

takun

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

They arent going anywhere :rolleyes:

I think they are, to the back benches for a very long time. It's not just the low vote, its the nature of that vote.

- They are a wipe out in urban areas. Ireland is increasingly urban.
- They are still reliant on older voters. A dying demographic by its nature
- Doing very badly with first time voters, who whatever their family voting background was have ignored them as a potential choice. Having walked away at this point in their lives, these people will not in future see FF as the default option in the way their families did in the past. The genetic FF voting tendency has been broken, irreparably.
- In the areas where they are doing worst, they also have very low numbers of local representatives. Makes reorganisation extremely hard when you've no TD and relatively few local representatives.
- They are not going to vastly outnumber SF on the backbenches. SF will make much more noise and get much more notice from there.
- They are in total denial still about all of these things.


I mean look at it. If someone had told you even two years ago that you'd have FF at around 15% of the national vote, you'd have thought they were certifiable. This is not just a 'bad election', this is a comprehensive rejection and a huge shift in voting patterns in this country.

norrie rugger

c montgomery wrote: »

I would like to agree with you, i just dont think that its true.


If FG/Lab take the poisoned chalice and go into government tougher FF will be the largest opposition. FG/Lab are going to have to take some horrendous decisions and will lose popularity over the coming years. FF will oppose everything that the new government do and when it come to the next election FF will be much stronger.

I bet next it wont be long before we have a FF/Lab government once the FG/Lab one falls.

Don't be so sure of FF being biggest opposition.
Tatical bloc led by SF could challenge that

Mal-Adjusted

my constituency might return one FF td to my shame :mad:

Biggins

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

my constituency might return one FF td to my shame :mad:

17% of my county to my horror, has still voted FF.
Same as last time around. How can some be so completely thick and blind to do so!

The Mad Hatter

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I know - was just being cautious in case I'd missed something

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

What has become obvious and it was stated from the media is that the remaining support for FF is rural and is coming from the aging population. The youth and middle aged of Ireland have dumped them in their droves.

This means that is Michael martin wishes to build up the party again, he can only rely on more so higher percentage of aging dying numbers that will not pass their political views to their youth, who clearly do not want them.

The youth and middle aged for the future are looking else where and will remember more so the corruption, cronyism and antics of FF - meanwhile the tribalism of the remaining dying existing supporters are sticking by their tribalism to FF and they are growing older by the day and dying off.
...And thats the truth of the matter.

So we will have to wait another 20years to see FF completely wiped out.

rodento

Laminations wrote: »

I think most people here and in the country generally wanted FF seriously punished in this election as they recognised the damage done by the party over the last 10 years. So it looks like a whipping is taking place, not quite the death of the party but enough to shame them all. So to complete the catharsis it would be nice to give them a slow clap as they exit government.

Where are the FF party having their post election get-together?
Will die hard supporters now distance themselves from the party because they were really addicted to power and not FF?

How will you wave goodbye to FF?
Are you glad at wht has happened to them and do you think its been enough?

We will be back stronger than ever;)

Biggins

ilovesleep wrote: »

So we will have to wait another 20years to see FF completely wiped out.

True approximately but at least better than 40/50+ years.

In the interim, this will now possibly give further breathing space for newer parties maybe to finally get started and get their voices heard more so.
The dominance of FF is now gone for some time - and that is only a good thing.

leincar

Guys and Girls as I open my first bottle of Louis Roderer can for one day at least we all rejoice in what has happened. That harsh creaking sound you hear is DeValera turning in his grave.

steve9859

I can understand people being happy that certain individuals that comprise FF have been punished. But why is all the champagne justified when we have just replaced one centre right part with another?

Labours ability to rein in FG policy will be tested over coming weeks but everyone must remember that they are the JUNIOR coalition partner, and their negotiating power will reflect this. We effectively have another centre right government. Surely it is a case of 'new boss, same as the old boss'

Biggins

leincar wrote: »

...That harsh creaking sound you hear is DeValera turning in his grave.

...Along with Charles Haughty - who's son now is looking not to get elected too.

johngalway

GW will return O Cuiv, possibly one of the safest FF seats in the country, much to my disgust. Cillit Bang couldn't shift that fella :rolleyes:

GSF

the FF core vote base of rural pensioners wouldnt be the best springboard for the future. As one wit on the radio said this morning, FF better hope the health service improves otherwise their core vote wont see the next election.

Whiskey Devil

Biggins wrote: »

17% of my county to my horror, has still voted FF.
Same as last time around. How can some be so completely thick and blind to do so!

Perhaps if you had been true to your word there may have been a different outcome in Louth.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056149223

Mal-Adjusted

Damn it! we elected a FFer back in! :mad:

wow sierra

37% of people in the RTE exit poll think FF will lead a Govenment in the next 10 years. RTÉ say "only 37%". I think it is an incredible figure and if I was a FF party member I would be using that as a basis of saying, yes we will be back.

This is the same RTÉ exit poll that got the election result right. I doubt you would get 37% saying Labour would lead a Government in 10 years time.

Biggins

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

Perhaps if you had been true to your word there may have been a different outcome in Louth.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056149223

True to some extent but due to a number of independents already running in the Louth region and monetary costs, I've had to take a pass this time.
On the plus side, it will allow me to build up a Unitedpeople group I'm trying to organise so that the next time around we might have a new organisation to stand instead of just sole independents.

I expect FG to eventually be seen (if not already by some) as bad as FF in some respects - and clearly the young to middle aged definitely what something new and fresh, not already equally tainted with equally cronyism, too close a relationship to banks/business/religion and unions.
I can't see that coming from our current lot - which explains why so many, many more independents this time around have been elected by the way.

joseph brand

A vote for FF is a vote FOR emigration.

If people still vote for FF after what they did to us, will they not think that they can get away with anything, that there is no comeuppance? They became complacent and lazy. They were always dishonest (Haughey and Ahern)

FG have the chance to undo the harm caused by FF and prove they were deserving of our votes.


btw just saw Eamon Ryan harping on about water pollution being halved and the improvement in broadband, ha ha, who the foook cares when you have no job/ house/ reason to live in Ireland.

Sierra Oscar

Fianna Fáil will be rebuilt from its core outwards. The party will have to face up and admit to the mistakes that were made during its time in government, re-evaluate what values it stands for, and allow for a new generation of its party members to come to the forefront in helping rebuild the party.

As a member of Fianna Fáil I can tell you unequivocally that its members are dedicated to rebuilding the party. If some people flee the party due to an absence of power in favour of seeking refuge in the current dominant political party then we will leave them to their own devices. These are the sort of people that have caused great harm to Fianna Fáil and subsequently great harm to our great country. We do not want such people in a new Fianna Fáil.

It is a very exciting time for those of us who are members of Ógra Fianna Fáil. We are adamant that we will play a central role in the revitalising of our party to ensure it remains a relevant entity to the people of Ireland.

later12

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52265#

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52191

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52252

Biggins

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

...We are adamant that we will play a central role in the revitalising of our party to ensure it remains a relevant entity to the people of Ireland.

Said with genuine respect; it doesn't want revitalising, it wants a good clean out of the ways of corruption, cronyism, self-interest and an open admittance of what the rest of the public knows - that FF have sinned big time in far too many ways and have gotten away with it equally by their corrupt methods.

But listening to a female FF'er last night on Vincent Brown, then now it appears she (and the rest at higher levels) are unwilling to take what MUST be that first step.

If ye don't do that, ye are totally wasting your time and efforts.
The younger Ogra are much better off separating and setting up their own fresh, cleaner, better and more open organisation - than be tainted by the living in denial, toxic dying org that is now Fianna Fail.

Its time for FF youth to decide to walk the walk, not just talk the talk - and if they are not able/willing to do that, then go their own way for the eventual betterment of themselves and thus the public they wish to serve.

Sierra Oscar

Biggins wrote: »

Said with genuine respect; it doesn't want revitalising, it wants a good clean out of the ways of corruption, cronyism, self-interest and an open admittance of what the rest of the public knows - that FF have sinned big time in far too many ways and have gotten away with it equally by their corrupt methods.

But listening to a female FF'er last night on Vincent Brown, then now it appears she (and the rest at higher levels) are unwilling to take what MUST be that first step.

That "good clean" process was kick-started yesterday and if the grassroot members have their way it will continue in the coming months. The process will take time, I expect it will take FF two years before it is election ready again.

Amhran Nua

later10 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52265#

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52191

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52252

When the grandchildren of those posters are posting on boards about how they at long last aren't paying one tax euro in five towards covering private bank losses, people might have forgotten the mess that FF made. But probably not.

Not all defeats are equal, and history doesn't always repeat itself.

vintac34

Ff need to be totally eradicated,just like Small Pox.
Their traitorous actions have destroyed our country for generations to come!

Anyone any ideas where we could get a vaccine developed??

Biggins

I think there is a HUGE lesson to be learned (or be reminded of) from yesterday and the outcome of the vote - and this just don't apply to Fianna Fail, Fine Gael better take note too! - the public is unwilling to accept the ways of old, the ways of self-interest and inner party corruption.
The lesson/reminder is that if those ways still continue to persist, expect nothing eventually in time but near total and utter revenge/destruction upon a party/organisation.

We all have seen the awakening in the Arabic countries and they voicing, demanding change.
We too in a growing simmering but big way too have said "enough is enough - we don't have to take this crap any more!"

Fine Gael - you have been warned! Ye better pay attention or too pay an eventual price/backlash!

Biggins

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

...I expect it will take FF two years before it is election ready again.

I honestly would have said a lot, lot longer. We're talking here of a generation of inbred ways of doing things, the old guard won't go easily. Lord knows we have seen that in the Dail alone.
With that living in denial head now of FF running things, I don't see much hope for the Orga to bring about change.
Ye will get the pretense of being listened to, pandered to and then the already systemic still installed old guard will likely carry on with their old ways.
I'd like to be wrong but I've seen nothing yet - absolutely nothing - that shows any different!

They haven't even gotten to stage one above - nor is likely to with Martin and his ilk still leading things!

takun

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

These are the sort of people that have caused great harm to Fianna Fáil and subsequently great harm to our great country. We do not want such people in a new Fianna Fáil.

It is a very exciting time for those of us who are members of Ógra Fianna Fáil. We are adamant that we will play a central role in the revitalising of our party to ensure it remains a relevant entity to the people of Ireland.

That all sounds a bit delusional.

If FF were rejected, the Ógra part of them were rejected just as comprehensively. You are going to revitalise a party on the back of a tiny bunch of ageing TDs, all men, mostly rurally based and most of whom are long time parish-pump operatives who were not considered good enough for front line roles when the party was flying high?

Good luck with that.

Laminations

Why this obsession with rebuilding a broken party and a corrupted brand? We all know that the Orga FF chose to join the old traditional cronynist parish pump regular full fat FF. You havent dissociated yourselves at all, that would involve walking out and starting anew. The truth is you have an affinity to FF and the love for the party is greater than the love for this country. Because if it wasn't you'd leave FF, stop propping it up, let it die and go start a new party that can at a distance credibly criticise FF and have the best interests of the country at heart. Because all I'm hearing is that FFers are worried about FF and it's future.

We had an opportunity to send politics in Ireland a clear message. The decimation of FF (with maybe only 2 sitting TDs) would have reminded all representatives in the Dail of the consequences of putting party first rather than keeping sustainable policies and Irelands future economic health in focus. The electorate failed to send this message IMO

Capt'n Midnight

Have they lost the working class areas of Dublin for ever ?

Would Lenihan have got back in if he hadn't cancer ?

Biggins

Just to add to what I said in post 33...

FF does not need "revitalising" - to do that means bringing life back to what ALREADY there and/or put more energy back in same.
Its not a revitalising that is needed - its a complete and utter clean out of the dirt and rot within.
Anything less and the remaining youth within are wasting their time and only fooling themselves - and possibly attempting to fool the public!

Some of us won't fall for it.

peasant

Biggins wrote: »

I the public is unwilling to accept the ways of old, the ways of self-interest and inner party corruption.

I wouldn't share your optimism there ...the election of Micheal Lowry, Healy-Rae Junior and John "Expenses" Perry being a case in point.
Basically, the Irish populace is still very much apathetic when it comes to national issues and just looks after the clan and the parish first.

Our shining new governement won't be able to do much about the mess we're in right now and there's no money for any great changes either.

Come the next election the old and practiced parish pumpers might well be in with a shot again as the "new guys" didn't deliver either.

This election was no "revolution". Barring a few notable exceptions one slimy populist was just replaced with another one of different couleur. We're still two or three elections away from a really different standard in Irish politics ...and given the apathy of the Irish electorate I wouln't be at all surprised if it never happened and just swings back to the old ways altogether.

We don't just need to change our governement, we need to change our society and it's attitude to the national interest.

Laminations

The comparisons between this and the 2002 FG destruction are inaccurate. Nobody hated FG, nobody wanted FG and everyone associated with them destroyed and nobody were blaming FG for the humiliation of the nation and our loss of sovergnity and indebtedness for generations. Nobody was calling the voters in 2002 traitors. FG collapsed because of what FF were offering, FF has now collapsed because the true consequences of those offers have come to light.

mikemac

Laminations wrote: »

. Nobody hated FG, nobody wanted FG and everyone associated with them destroyed

FG collapsed because of what FF were offering, FF has now collapsed because the true consequences of those offers have come to light.

When Noonan became leader, his handling of the Hepatitis C scandal was all over the papers once again.

There were plenty out there in 2002 that wanted the party destroyed.

It wasn't just FF promises that won it for them in 2002.

Biggins

peasant wrote: »

I wouldn't share your optimism there ...the election of Micheal Lowry, Healy-Rae Junior and John "Expenses" Perry being a case in point.

One has to be optimistic or one gets depressed, fearing for one four kids in years to come. As for the named mentioned above, I hear what your saying, thankfully, they seem to be the exception to the rule, with more newer fresher faces coing into the Dail now. We can only hope, wait and see...

peasant wrote: »

Our shining new governement won't be able to do much about the mess we're in right now and there's no money for any great changes either.

Come the next election the old and practiced parish pumpers might well be in with a shot again as the "new guys" didn't deliver either.

First part true but to re-quote something I stated elsewhere:

Therein lies the 'rub'.

If in a period of time, FG (and whoever) continues to do things not to the publics liking (cowering to Europe, more tax, services cut etc, take your pick...) then knowing that the remaining youth and middle aged DO NOT want FF back in either, they might respond even more so the other remaining orgs in the country yet again in bigger numbers.

That means Sinn Fein and co...

Just as a great deal of people voted for anything but FF, in the whole this time around, for FG,
they might yet again when seeing FG maybe just as bad as FF, go elsewhere yet again with their vote. Staying clear of both of them then.
Such might be the short space of time and a lot more willing to remember and not forgive, at the next election we might see even more surprising radical change!

...Just a thought.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70899755&postcount=27

peasant wrote: »

This election was no "revolution". Barring a few notable exceptions one slimy populist was just replaced with another one of different couleur. We're still two or three elections away from a really different standard in Irish politics ...and given the apathy of the Irish electorate I wouln't be at all surprised if it never happened and just swings back to the old ways altogether.

We don't just need to change our governement, we need to change our society and it's attitude to the national interest.

While no BIG revolution, it has been commented and noticed many times in the last few weeks and by many observers that the Irish public not only wanted revenge but also more so voted upon party policies and agendas, like never before in the history of the state. While there was still an existence of "parish pump" thinking and a still slight outcome because of that, on the whole a major change has occurred in the way that the youth to middle aged has processed the way they were going to award their vote.

That alone should not go unrecorded and unnoticed by our incoming government. Its a substantial change in methodology of the public and is in my mind a quiet revolution this time around.

Laminations

feelingstressed wrote: »

When Noonan became leader, his handling of the Hepatitis C scandal was all over the papers once again.

There were plenty out there in 2002 that wanted the party destroyed.

It wasn't just FF promises that won it for them in 2002.

Granted. But how many health scandals have we had since? Do you think we've had some worse health scandals? Do you think the very state of the health system with the minister denying responsibility for anything is and of itself a scandal?

And that's just health. The past few years of FF have been riven with scandal, we've lost our sovergnity in case ya didnt get the memo. Although Cowen thinks it's fine cos 'no one has died'

goose2005

wow sierra wrote: »

37% of people in the RTE exit poll think FF will lead a Govenment in the next 10 years. RTÉ say "only 37%". I think it is an incredible figure and if I was a FF party member I would be using that as a basis of saying, yes we will be back.

Only RTFF would dream of holding such a stupid poll. I seriously doubt they asked about the likelihood of a SF govt in the next 10 years.

Monty Burnz

clown bag wrote: »

I'm hoping at least Dublin has banished the traitors. No doubt our country cousins will keep voting their tribe in though. I have my fingers crossed for a FF free Dublin.

Somebody else who thinks that anyone from beyond Newland's Cross is a culchie...:D

Laminations

goose2005 wrote: »

Only RTFF would dream of holding such a stupid poll. I seriously doubt they asked about the likelihood of a SF govt in the next 10 years.

Yeah it's time the media readjust their focus and either downgrade FF to a lower level of importance similar to the coverage they give SF or upgrade the coverage they give to SF, independents and indeed Labour. FF now represent us as much as SF do, so they shouldn't be sought out for their opinions on everything and the Greens? Well they are all gone, and their opinion now is as valid as that of the Christian Solidarity Party, both have been rejected by the electorate.

peasant

Biggins wrote: »

While no BIG revolution, it has been commented and noticed many times in the last few weeks and by many observers that the Irish public not only wanted revenge but also more so voted upon party policies and agendas, like never before in the history of the state. While there was still an existence of "parish pump" thinking and a still slight outcome because of that, on the whole a major change has occurred in the way that the youth to middle aged has processed the way they were going to award their vote.

That alone should not go unrecorded and unnoticed by our incoming government. Its a substantial change in methodology of the public and is in my mind a quiet revolution this time around.

What about next time around though? Will the momentum carry on or will we just regress?

Remains to be seen ...