Moneenageisha traffic lights V old roundabout?

yer man!

I know this has probably been discussed to death on here in the past but did the old roundabout work better than the current traffic light controlled system? I know some engineering lecturers in NUIG who think it's just a disaster altogether.

ronnie3585

yer man! wrote: »

I know this has probably been discussed to death on here in the past but did the old roundabout work better than the current traffic light controlled system? I know some engineering lecturers in NUIG who think it's just a disaster altogether.

It has been discussed to death and it is a complete disaster.

amiable

Surely those lights were put in for all those bad drivers who couldn't use the roundabout efficiently

doolox

They do not work well if there is a dominant flow in one straight through direction which block traffic trying to enter a right angles to the strong or dominant flow. Roughly equal but intermittent flows in all directions work best in roundabouts where each road gets a turn to enter the roundabout. You do not get this on some roundabouts because of rush hour traffic usually from an outlying road which affects the traffic trying to enter from its right which never gets a chance to get onto the roundabout because there is little or no traffic emerging from the city centre ( usually) to block the constant flow of traffic from the suburbs. The opposite affect happens in the evening with the traffic to the right of the Bohermore road getting no chance to get onto the rdbt so that lights are needed to break up the constant flow and give every road a chance.

yer man!

doolox wrote: »

They do not work well if there is a dominant flow in one straight through direction which block traffic trying to enter a right angles to the strong or dominant flow. Roughly equal but intermittent flows in all directions work best in roundabouts where each road gets a turn to enter the roundabout. You do not get this on some roundabouts because of rush hour traffic usually from an outlying road which affects the traffic trying to enter from its right which never gets a chance to get onto the roundabout because there is little or no traffic emerging from the city centre ( usually) to block the constant flow of traffic from the suburbs. The opposite affect happens in the evening with the traffic to the right of the Bohermore road getting no chance to get onto the rdbt so that lights are needed to break up the constant flow and give every road a chance.

Huh, well now I know, thanks

Cathal01

The roundabout was more efficient, and I have to say it was the one spot in Galway that drivers were actually on the ball. With the lights you have about 0.5 seconds before the light goes red again, you usually have some f**king eejit in front of you who takes about 5 mins to get their car back into gear and the handbrake down and accelerate! The lights are just bull**** but the ineptitude of drivers around Galway is just as infuriating.

Galway K9

Cathal01 wrote: »

The roundabout was more efficient, and I have to say it was the one spot in Galway that drivers were actually on the ball. With the lights you have about 0.5 seconds before the light goes red again, you usually have some f**king eejit in front of you who takes about 5 mins to get their car back into gear and the handbrake down and accelerate! The lights are just bull**** but the ineptitude of drivers around Galway is just as infuriating.

Sorry Cathal i dont agree i feel with lights you have fair leeway so far as that when lights go green a majority of traffic gets by where with roundbout you were waiting for ages for one car to get out.:)

Also same can be said about a driver at a roundabout not jjust traffic lights

skelliser

doolox wrote: »

They do not work well if there is a dominant flow in one straight through direction which block traffic trying to enter a right angles to the strong or dominant flow. Roughly equal but intermittent flows in all directions work best in roundabouts where each road gets a turn to enter the roundabout. You do not get this on some roundabouts because of rush hour traffic usually from an outlying road which affects the traffic trying to enter from its right which never gets a chance to get onto the roundabout because there is little or no traffic emerging from the city centre ( usually) to block the constant flow of traffic from the suburbs. The opposite affect happens in the evening with the traffic to the right of the Bohermore road getting no chance to get onto the rdbt so that lights are needed to break up the constant flow and give every road a chance.

WTF!:eek:

Galway K9

agreed

snubbleste

It has been discussed to death and it is not a complete disaster.

CrowdedHouse

I'm only an occasional user of this junction, rarely at rush hour, but I find the lights better than the roundabout

Dunjohn

I think it's improved the flow on the Dublin Road and the hill directly across from it (Moneenagiesha Road?). Back in the bad old roundabout days it wasn't uncommon for cars to get stuck on those roads, back up the roundabout, and block the exit for Lough Atalia or the entrance from Mervue.

Coming off the Mervue Road was always extremely slow and I don't notice any great difference there, but at least you're guaranteed a green light eventually.

Lough Atalia road was always a disaster but now it's even worse. I've been backed up as far as the Harbour Hotel. This has a lot to do with the junction at College Road, with cars coming down College Road and easing into the yellow boxes, and then not being able to move for five minutes. Then, when the traffic on Lough Atalia finally gets a chance to get out two or three green lights later, they do the same and pile as many cars into the yellow box as possible. With the roundabout, at least the line of traffic was kept moving so there was a decent chance that the yellow boxes would clear before the lights changed.

sgthighway

Hard to call but I think the lights work great. The roundabout was great too but they have widened up some of the roads into/out of it now. If you are coming down Monivea Rd; they can be a bit slow.

celtictiger

It's an unmitigated disaster. The old roundabout was far more effiicient. Very rarely would you have the backed up traffic that you have now in every direction. Whoever is responsible should be named, shamed and sacked. We know that won't happen tho.

The traffic lights are much much safer for pedestrians.
Darting across the lanes of the roundabout was always risky.

biko

Def the lights are better, the RB was a major PITA.

Amhran Nua

Deleted User wrote: »

The traffic lights are much much safer for pedestrians.
Darting across the lanes of the roundabout was always risky.

And it's right next to a school too.

dloob

The routes and times I take through the junction seem to have improved since the lights went in.
Only problem can be when traffic is very heavy coming up lough atalia and college road and it's a complete mess where they meet.

Only one set of lights let's people continue to turn left(coming down the Dubin Road) when the traffic from that side is going.

The lights don't repeat this for any other side though, even when it's safe to do so

996tt

traffic lights only work if you have some restrictions on turning right.

yer man!

Stick a bypass around galway and it wouldn't matter anymore.

galah

traffic lights are much better - if it weren't for the idiot drivers running red/organge lights, then blocking the junction in the yellow boxes.

Was stuck there yesterday, actually - coming from Monivea Road, wanting to go straight down Lough Atalia - lights went green, but because some numbnut turning right form Lough Atalia blocked the junction, only about 3 cars got through every time - it took me 4 turns of the lights to finally get through, and I was only as far back as the wellpark exit. Very frustating, and totally unnecessary.

So, if people finally learnt how to drive properly and not squeeze in when the lights are already red, or block the junction, the junction would work properly as well...

Mrs OBumble

celtictiger wrote: »

It's an unmitigated disaster. The old roundabout was far more effiicient. Very rarely would you have the backed up traffic that you have now in every direction.

I spent most of 2008 catching the HP bus home: the trip down Monivea Rd / Wellpark was generally very slow due to backed up traffic.

I've been doing the same trip again for the last couple of months, and it's been heaps faster with very few queues (except for one day last week).

Of course there's been a recession hit in between ...

But as a pedestrian, I'd say that anyone who thinks the RAB was better must be smoking some mighty drugs.

yer man!

What does everyone think of the idea to replace the headford road roundabout with a signal controlled junction like this one?

Dunjohn

Hmm, that one has five exits with only three at right angles. The layout would be mental. Bad idea, I think. It may be tough to navigate but it doesn't really block up badly, does it?

TheCosmicFrog

Is there any truth to the rumor that these lights have a self-learning algorithm in them? I remember hearing a rumor that the council splashed out on lights with artificial intelligence. Not AI in the Hollywood-sense, just a traffic flow coordination algorithm. Would make a lot of sense. Might also explain why the lights were such a disaster in the beginning and seemed to gradually improve over time.

Dunjohn

I'm pretty certain that's the case, Galway Bay FM mentioned it frequently back at the beginning. In between swear words, admittedly.

Madame Razz

Traffic lights are better. It's still desperate there at rush hour, but only a bypass would sort that.

Worst bottleneck in Galway now is along the docks where that hoarding is STILL up and blocking a traffic lane. It creates chaos in that area and along out Lough Atalia. They really need to take that down:mad:

celtictiger

It's great for pedestrians - even the invisible ones that are crossing when all the cars are at a standstill waiting for them to cross. I don't know what time of the day or night some of ye are visiting the Moneenageesha but nine times out of ten I'm twiddling my thumbs polluting the air around me waiting in traffic. The roundabout was a thing of beauty compared to the system in place now. Named, shamed and sacked I say again.

pleasant Co.

celtictiger wrote: »

The roundabout was a thing of beauty compared to the system in place now.

No it wasn't, I don't know how many years you're going back to remember the roundabout as anything other than chaotic.

biko

The RB was only good for people coming from Lough Atalia and going up Dublin road. They'd enter the RB when there was no exit space and simply block traffic from Wellpark and double journey time going from east to west.

Maybe the lights could be better programmed but they're miles better than letting motorists block each other and just adding to the general road rage.

KevR

Dunjohn wrote: »

Hmm, that one has five exits with only three at right angles. The layout would be mental. Bad idea, I think. It may be tough to navigate but it doesn't really block up badly, does it?

The Galway Shopping Centre entrance/exit will be closing when the upgrade occurs. There's a lot more space at the Shopping Centre junction than there is at Moneenageisha so the upgraded SC junction will be a lot more high-powered than Moneenageisha.

KevR

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Only one set of lights let's people continue to turn left(coming down the Dubin Road) when the traffic from that side is going.

The lights don't repeat this for any other side though, even when it's safe to do so

There's not enough space for dedicated left-turning lanes on the other sides.

Very surprised by peoples opinion here, the lights are a disaster imo and that appears to be the general consensus from people (in real life). Ive seen traffic backed up at 8 oclock on a sunday evening no way that would happen with the roundabout. Anytime I pass through the lights i'm cursing them and asking why they got rid of the roundabout.

The fact there is less traffic on the roads due to recessionary time is blinding people into thinking its down to the lights, if we still had the roundabout coupled with lower traffic volumes things would move much better.

gbee

Roundabouts are to facilitate the free movement of traffic, where they are effective they work great.

Traffic light are designed to collect traffic and release it into another holding area.

The problem with a signalised roundabout is it's just plain nuts. A roundabout is not a holding area, it's an intersection where cars change direction.

One seriously needs to make a decision, a roundabout is perfect for a lot of use. But if signals are deemed necessary then it must be taken away and the normal four road junction created as light work best at these and the rules are simple.

Roundabouts are complex and have their own set of rules which vary locally. Traffic lights have another set of rules that don't vary locally. It was a recipe for disaster and in Cork we have a very famous example in the magic roundabout, 12 car collisions a day every day and many more on bad days. We have a flyover now [which was part of the original design element] but the roundabout still attracts one or two collisions daily.

for roundabouts to work it's essential to have a free flow of traffic. If the volume of traffic overpowers the roundabout, it simply MUST be removed and the road realigned to a simple "cross of four roads".

celtictiger

There are two rush hours during the day which neither lights nor roundabout could cope with.....during regular traffic hours the roundabout kicked traffic light butt.

dloob

celtictiger wrote: »

It's great for pedestrians - even the invisible ones that are crossing when all the cars are at a standstill waiting for them to cross. I don't know what time of the day or night some of ye are visiting the Moneenageesha but nine times out of ten I'm twiddling my thumbs polluting the air around me waiting in traffic. The roundabout was a thing of beauty compared to the system in place now. Named, shamed and sacked I say again.

Umm there isn't any point in the lights cycle where all traffic is standing still.
It goes dublin road and both left turn lanes green.
Then it's college road and dublin road left turn lane green.
Then it's wellpark road green and finally moneenageisha rd.
Then back to the start again, the pedestrain lights work around the cycle.

wet-paint

The biggest problem with the roundabout was morons not knowing how to use it, and blocking it up.

KevR

Monroe Broad Oceanographer wrote: »

Very surprised by peoples opinion here, the lights are a disaster imo and that appears to be the general consensus from people (in real life). Ive seen traffic backed up at 8 oclock on a sunday evening no way that would happen with the roundabout. Anytime I pass through the lights i'm cursing them and asking why they got rid of the roundabout.

The fact there is less traffic on the roads due to recessionary time is blinding people into thinking its down to the lights, if we still had the roundabout coupled with lower traffic volumes things would move much better.

Have heard quite a few people saying that traffic levels are down but I have yet to see any real evidence. In fact, NRA traffic counters show that traffic levels have increased on many major routes, significantly on some. I can offer an explanation as to why it has increased during a recession but won't do it now as I'm posting from a mobile..

Mr Man

I've been using this junction a few times a week for a number of years. When they first put the lights in it was a disaster.

However, I think they have found a sequencing that now works far better than the roundabout ever did.

As a few people have said, once traffic gets to a certain volume (as it does a few times daily in Galway), roundabouts create more problems than they solve.

antoobrien

gbee wrote: »

for roundabouts to work it's essential to have a free flow of traffic.

This is the real problem with all the roundabouts in Galway - the traffic exiting the roundabouts often has nowhere to go. In this sepcific case, the Dublin road has several sets of lights and pedestrian junctions between Moneenagesha and Doughiska, which all stop traffic, causing knock on delays back to and beyond this junction. As several people have mentioned, we need the bypass to make any real difference.

Because I'm working in Dublin I don't tend to be riving around Galway a lot so I don't know first hand how this juction is handling traffic. However many people tell me that they avoid it like the plague, instead going in and out Bohermore instead.

swe_fi

I think it would have worked with just making the roundabout bigger. I always avoid this junction when I can.

And don't you dare touching the Magic roundabout. It is a landmark and keeps you on your toes, very refreshing. It promotes initiative, innovation and individualism (Will i do the classic "pheripheral-vision-only-3-lane-nonsignalled-tesco-entrance-crossing" today maybe???). It is also a great sense of achievement when you come unharmed and unbeeped out of it, when you really deserved at the very least a beep.

Galway traffic is weird but funny. It has come to a point where I have gotten so mean that I know my best routes for different times of day, but i will not share them even with my close friends because I am afraid that word would get out and then then they would get clogged up. They are MY routes :-)

gbee

wet-paint wrote: »

The biggest problem with the roundabout was morons not knowing how to use it, and blocking it up.

The problem with roundabouts is people being taught to use it one way, then lanes get added which necessitate breaking the rules to allow one to get to where they want.

At one major roundabout near me a councillor made the following comments about changing lanes after a total realignment of the roadway. "everybody just shift over one lane, Simple!"

This is the type of planning we have to put up with along with bus lanes too narrow for the busses, curves too severe for them to negotiate and bus stops where the bus can't fit into.

I guess those Dinky Toy Buses are not to scale afterall?

Robbo

TheCosmicFrog wrote: »

Is there any truth to the rumor that these lights have a self-learning algorithm in them? I remember hearing a rumor that the council splashed out on lights with artificial intelligence. Not AI in the Hollywood-sense, just a traffic flow coordination algorithm. Would make a lot of sense. Might also explain why the lights were such a disaster in the beginning and seemed to gradually improve over time.

Relax, no harm can come of this Skynet system they installed.

what_traffic

KevR wrote: »

Have heard quite a few people saying that traffic levels are down but I have yet to see any real evidence. In fact, NRA traffic counters show that traffic levels have increased on many major routes, significantly on some. I can offer an explanation as to why it has increased during a recession but won't do it now as I'm posting from a mobile..

Would be very interested hearing your explanation? Do you know if the NRA traffic counters were placed just on the "NRA roads" within the city?

what_traffic

Lights are a much better solution for pedestrians, the disabled, the elderly and cyclists. Multi lane roundabouts are a major barrier to all these road users.
Galway City Council have acknowledged this in their Smarter Travel Submission documents
http://www.galwaycity.ie/SmarterTravel/index.html

KevR

what_traffic wrote: »

Would be very interested hearing your explanation? Do you know if the NRA traffic counters were placed just on the "NRA roads" within the city?

Traffic counts for Galway City are difficult to come by. I meant to say traffic 'nationally'.

People used to have a car + they had commuter rail/bus tickets also. They used the train or bus to avoid traffic going to and from work, and difficulty in finding a parking space. The car was used for journeys like going to the supermarket, journeys at the weekend, bringing the kids from A to B...etc.

Along came the pay cuts and people needed to cut costs. People were paying to keep the car running and paying for commuter rail/bus tickets. They would need to keep the car going regardless for non-work journeys so they decided to get rid of the bus/train ticket (which was a luxury for some) and use the car for work journeys also.

That's my theory anyway. Traffic on many major routes all around the country has increased, I haven't seen any evidence of a decrease in traffic levels anyhow. Galway City Council carried out huge traffic counting exercises in 2009 and 2010 (can't remember if they did it every year previous to that) but they don't publish the figures - I asked them for some figures but got nowhere. None of the NRA's counters are in the city, East of Athenry on the M6 is the nearest to the city. They have counters West of Athenry and Oranmore but the figures aren't yet availaible.

KevR

KevR wrote: »

Traffic counts for Galway City are difficult to come by. I meant to say traffic 'nationally'.

People used to have a car + they had commuter rail/bus tickets also. They used the train or bus to avoid traffic going to and from work, and difficulty in finding a parking space. The car was used for journeys like going to the supermarket, journeys at the weekend, bringing the kids from A to B...etc.

Along came the pay cuts and people needed to cut costs. People were paying to keep the car running and paying for commuter rail/bus tickets. They would need to keep the car going regardless for non-work journeys so they decided to get rid of the bus/train ticket (which was a luxury for some) and use the car for work journeys also.

That's my theory anyway. Traffic on many major routes all around the country has increased, I haven't seen any evidence of a decrease in traffic levels anyhow. Galway City Council carried out huge traffic counting exercises in 2009 and 2010 (can't remember if they did it every year previous to that) but they don't publish the figures - I asked them for some figures but got nowhere. None of the NRA's counters are in the city, East of Athenry on the M6 is the nearest to the city. They have counters West of Athenry and Oranmore but the figures aren't yet availaible.

Id have to disagree, from my experience traffic volumes have decreased a lot. I remember regularly being at a standstill the headford side of regans in cloonboo going into college and now, although I don't personally drive the road everyday at the moment, people tell me they can leave later in in the mornings due to less traffic and times I have travelled in in the morning the traffic appeared much lighter.

Mrs OBumble

KevR wrote: »

Traffic counts for Galway City are difficult to come by.

Parked-car counts in the industrial estates are one indicator.

In Jul 2009, I started doing some temping in Galway Technology Park. The car park was noticeably more empty on Thurs/Fri, people told me it due to folks on three-day weeks.

In late 2008, the car-park at HP was getting a lot more empty than it had been, as people were getting laid off. I noticed the other day that it seems to have been filling up more.

Maybe people who've been working at the one place all through can comment better than that.

Webbs

KevR wrote: »

That's my theory anyway. Traffic on many major routes all around the country has increased, I haven't seen any evidence of a decrease in traffic levels anyhow. Galway City Council carried out huge traffic counting exercises in 2009 and 2010 (can't remember if they did it every year previous to that) but they don't publish the figures - I asked them for some figures but got nowhere. None of the NRA's counters are in the city, East of Athenry on the M6 is the nearest to the city. They have counters West of Athenry and Oranmore but the figures aren't yet availaible.

In the past 2 years the delays/size of tailbacks at junctions lights etc had been getting steadily less and less.
That effect seems to have levelled off in past few months, but overall the difference in car numbers is noticeable in my opinion

KevR

Maybe it's just long distance traffic that has increased so.. Although it would be very weird (IMO) for city traffic to decrease while inter-urban traffic is increasing.