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death by dangerous driving..

  • 25-02-2011 12:05pm
    #1
    appleseed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭


    If I kill a passenger who refuses to wear a seat belt, am I responsible? What if I hit another car and kill someone in that car who had no belt. If a witness says I was speeding before I veered into his lane, is it still an 'accident'? Do the people who cause death on the roads even get a ban? Custodial sentence? The media never follow up. 5 or 6 a week killed in head on collisions or else hitting stationary object at high speed between hours of 11pm and 7am. Is anyone ever locked up or banned for life? Is it too insensitive to ask?


Comments

  • #2
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    appleseed wrote: »
    If I kill a passenger who refuses to wear a seat belt, am I responsible? What if I hit another car and kill someone in that car who had no belt. If a witness says I was speeding before I veered into his lane, is it still an 'accident'? Do the people who cause death on the roads even get a ban? Custodial sentence? The media never follow up. 5 or 6 a week killed in head on collisions or else hitting stationary object at high speed between hours of 11pm and 7am. Is anyone ever locked up or banned for life? Is it too insensitive to ask?

    Yes


  • #3
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,218 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    That's a lot of questions.


  • #4
    CountingCrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭CountingCrows


    appleseed wrote: »
    Is anyone ever locked up or banned for life? Is it too insensitive to ask?

    Deadliest crash in Irish history.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/motorist-had-tried-to-warn-donegal-crash-car-on-its-speed-14875654.html

    Any update on this?


  • #5
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    It's the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone in the car have their belts on.
    About rulings on this in courts where death has occurred, I have no idea.


  • #6
    appleseed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭appleseed


    CountingCrows wrote: »
    Deadliest crash in Irish history.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/motorist-had-tried-to-warn-donegal-crash-car-on-its-speed-14875654.html

    Any update on this?

    Yeah, wasn't referring to that specifically. But yeah, that's the sort of thing I'm on about. media report the death but never the follow up, did driver get prosecuted etc.


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  • #7
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    There's no simple answer to any of this. Its the drivers responsibility to ensure all passengers are properly seated and secured etc. An eye witnesses statement that you were speeding is in no way proof that you were speeding as there's no way you can accurately say how fast someone is going simply by looking at them, and peoples estimates vary a lot. Speed is worked out by measuring skid marks (not the ones in your underwear) etc. If an accident is deemed your fault, but a passenger in the other vehicle died and wasn't wearing a seat belt, then who is responsible for his death is a difficult one as both drivers are at fault. You for causing the accident, the other driver for not ensuring his passenger was properly secured. If someone refuses to wear a seat belt, then you shouldn't begin driving. If you are proven to have caused death by dangerous driving, then I suspect you'll be looking at jail time. I know in the UK (where i'm originally from) several people have been given jail sentences. These cases tend to take a very long time in the courts and thats prob why the media dont follow up much, or if they do, it'll be a little a little article somewhere.


  • #8
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    biko wrote: »
    It's the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone in the car have their belts on.

    Is that true? I was under the impression it was only for passengers under the age of 17, all over 17 are responsible for themselves.


  • #9
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    CountingCrows wrote: »
    Deadliest crash in Irish history.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/motorist-had-tried-to-warn-donegal-crash-car-on-its-speed-14875654.html

    Any update on this?

    Thats a bad one. I suspect the case is still ongoing for something like that. These things take a very long time, sometimes upto a couple of yrs. I'm no judge/lawyer/coroner, but I suspect we'll see the driver get a charge of death for dangerous driving amongst other things for that. He had 8 people in the car!! 7 lives destroyed in an instant. The driver is usually the only survivor due to airbag etc.


  • #10
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    draffodx wrote: »
    Is that true? I was under the impression it was only for passengers under the age of 17, all over 17 are responsible for themselves.

    Yes and no. I'm not up on Irish law, but tends to be pretty much the same as UK law. In the UK if a passenger is spotted without a seat belt, the driver is issued with the fine. It is the adults responsibility to secure himself with the seat belt, but the ultimate responsibility is with the driver, as you are responsible for your vehicle and all its occupants.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    draffodx wrote: »
    Is that true? I was under the impression it was only for passengers under the age of 17, all over 17 are responsible for themselves.

    I thought the same, once someone is 17 they take responsibility (as a passenger) for wearing or not wearing a seat belt. Its not the drivers responsibility.

    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    Yes and no. I'm not up on Irish law, but tends to be pretty much the same as UK law. In the UK if a passenger is spotted without a seat belt, the driver is issued with the fine. It is the adults responsibility to secure himself with the seat belt, but the ultimate responsibility is with the driver, as you are responsible for your vehicle and all its occupants.

    This is not the case in Ireland, if a passenger over 17 is caught without a seat belt then they are issued the fine and not the driver. If the passenger is under 17 then the driver is issued a fine and points.


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  • #12
    keithclancy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    biko wrote: »
    It's the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone in the car have their belts on.
    About rulings on this in courts where death has occurred, I have no idea.

    Its the drivers responsiblity to make sure any minor in the car wears a seatbelt according to the rules anyway. The Adult is their own responsiblity.

    Common sense dictates I just won't drive if someone won't wear their seatbelt.

    As:
    1. They're a potential danger to everyone else in the car in the event of a collision
    2. I own a Volvo, it makes the most annoying binging sound until you put on your seatbelt.
    3. They may sue me for their life long ailments due to their stupidity

    I mean, how many times do you turn around and say "RIGHT THEN, EVERYONE HAVE THEIR SEATBELTS ON ?"


  • #13
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    draffodx wrote: »
    Is that true? I was under the impression it was only for passengers under the age of 17, all over 17 are responsible for themselves.

    You're right according to this. Thanks for clearing that up.
    http://www.1stdrivertheorytest.com/vehicle-equipment.html
    If you are carrying passengers 17 years old or greater, whose responsibility is it to wear the seatbelt?
    It's the passenger's responsibility.

    I got confused by this:
    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/No-Child-Car-Seat---No-Excuse/The-Law/
    Rule of thumb: if there's a safety belt, you must use it. It's the drivers' responsibility to be sure their passengers are using seat belts and appropriate child restraints.


  • #14
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    But surely you are resposible for the accident regardless of the passanger having a seatbelt on or not.


  • #15
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    But surely you are resposible for the accident regardless of the passanger having a seatbelt on or not.

    Only if he had caused the accident or contributed to it (partial responsibility), I would have thought. Factors such as what caused him to veer into the other lane as mentioned in the OP would need to be established before responsibility could be apportioned correctly.


  • #16
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Only if he had caused the accident or contributed to it (partial responsibility), I would have thought. Factors such as what caused him to veer into the other lane as mentioned in the OP would need to be established before responsibility could be apportioned correctly.


    yes but he said if he kills a passenger who doesn't have a seat belt is he responsible or if he hits another car and kills someone who has no seat belt. Surely the answer in both cases is that he is responsible for death by dangerous driving or accidental death, depending on the circumstances. The fact that a seat belt was being worn by the victim or not is irrelevant to his liability.


  • #17
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Nissan doctor wrote: »
    yes but he said if he kills a passenger who doesn't have a seat belt is he responsible or if he hits another car and kills someone who has no seat belt. Surely the answer in both cases is that he is responsible for death by dangerous driving or accidental death, depending on the circumstances. The fact that a seat belt was being worn by the victim or not is irrelevant to his liability.

    If the accident was caused through his own actions or negligence then yes he would be responsible. However, I can't see how the OP could be held responsible if, for example, was he shunted into the path of the other car by someone else.

    I agree about the occupants in the other car or adults in his own car not wearing seat belts is irrelevant (which is why I didn't mention is my previous post, perhaps I should have included it). But I do think at least some blame should be carried if the accident was survivable with the belt worn and the passenger is an unbelted minor in the OP's car as that is the driver's responsibility.


  • #18
    Nissan doctor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,223 ✭✭✭Nissan doctor


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    If the accident was caused through his own actions or negligence then yes he would be responsible. However, I can't see how the OP could be held responsible if, for example, was he shunted into the path of the other car by someone else .

    In that case it still wouldn't be his responsibility, it would be the person who hit him who is to blame. .

    slimjimmc wrote: »
    I agree about the occupants in the other car or adults in his own car not wearing seat belts is irrelevant (which is why I didn't mention is my previous post, perhaps I should have included it). But I do think at least some blame should be carried if the accident was survivable with the belt worn and the passenger is an unbelted minor in the OP's car as that is the driver's responsibility .


    As I understand it, other then minors, the driver is never(legally anyway) responsible for anyone else wearing a seatbelt or the outcome if they don't.

    Regardless of any of the legalilities, I would, and have, simply refused to start the car untill anyone it it has their seatbelt on.


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