Replace old reliable car with newer one?

SausageO

Good morning all, I'm new to Boards.ie here and looking for a bit of advice on lowering my transport costs, who isn't !

I have an old Mercedes E class from 1995 for the last few years that has been very reliable and never let me down, but I have looked after it and spend a bit on preventative maintenance and the odd wear and tear item, I don't expect any probelms from it in the near future. But it costs a fair bit in petrol (24MPG) and tax (€823 per year) and I'm wondering if it would be more cost effective to sell it and buy a 10 year old Honda Civic or similar. I drive about 8000 miles per year, mostly city suburbs.

I'd consider spending about 3500 on a newer car and reckon a 2001 1.4 Civic should get around 33MPG around town.


Motoring costs:

Mercedes E class:
Current spend on petrol, 8000 miles at 24MPG is 333 gallons (1500 litres) = €2200
Tax = €823
Total €3028

Honda Civic:
Petrol, 8000 miles at 33MPG is 242 gallons (1100 litres) = €1600
Tax = €333
Total = €1933

So, on petrol and motor tax I'd save about €1100 per year. Servicing and maintanance should be roughly the same I'd imagine, but maybe someone knows different?

However, I can't see the Mercedes costing me much in depreciation in the next 3 years whereas the Civic might be worth €1500 in 3 years, so thats cost me €2000. So now I'm back to saving €1300 over 3 years, only €433 per year. Is it worth the risk of changing from the Mercedes to the Honda when both have potential repair costs over the next few years and I can only see petrol and motor tax getting more expensive. I enjoy driving the Mercedes and my kids love it too (the Honda would of course be safer)

All opinions welcome.

CabanasBoy

Personally, if the Mercedes is not giving any trouble and there's no major repair bills looming on the horizon, I'd stick with the Merc, keep it long enough and you'll be able to tax and insure it as a classic which will wipe out that huge motor tax bill every year. But each to their own.

Just an add on, you could buy a 10 yr old Civic, discover something major needs doing and that'd wipe out some or all of a years savings.

Anan1

As above really, if the Mercedes isn't rusty then i'd keep it.

v240gltse

hi

i'd go for keeping the merc at least who know the car and its history and if you change you may/could have issues with the new one .


brendan

Seweryn

Anan1 wrote: »

As above really, if the Mercedes isn't rusty then i'd keep it.

Agree. Keep the Benz, if it is in a good shape. And if any repairs pops up, the Mercedes would be cheap and easy to sort out.

The Bishop Basher

The merc owes you nothing at this stage and you'll get very little for it. If it's a good car and sounds like it is, I would keep it.

As said above, changing involves risking a good reliable car for a potential lemon and money pit.

That said, when it starts costing you in repair bills it's time to move on. It's always hard to know where that line is.

CabanasBoy

CabanasBoy wrote: »

keep it long enough and you'll be able to tax and insure it as a classic which will wipe out that huge motor tax bill every year.

Classic tax for that Merc is 14 years away under the current rules. Classic insurance is only an option if the OP is running a 2nd car.

Personally I'd keep the Merc too though, savage comfort that you won't see in a Civic, the space the driver has too is great. Road presence etc etc. No brainer to keep the Merc in my view, to save potentially slightly over a grand a year you'll have to shell out €3000 for the Civic, admittedly you may well get a grand or so for the Merc but still it's two years time before you actually recoup the purchase cost. Not the way to go really if your motivation is to save money. Better off putting the €3000 into prize bonds :pac:

unkel

SausageO wrote: »

So now I'm back to saving €1300 over 3 years, only €433 per year.

Or a bit more than a Euro a day. That's not much for driving a much nicer and far superior car! Is it an automatic too?

Welcome to boards.ie by the way

Stevie Dakota

I did this a few years ago, 1995 BMW 5 series to a Focus. I have no doubt that I have saved quite a bit of cash and the Ford makes much more sense for my needs, but miss the sheer quality of that BMW on every drive.

If you don't have to do it, I would say hold off.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

Classic insurance is only an option if the OP is running a 2nd car.

That's not strictly true. Unless you are single

I had an arrangement (suggested to me by First Ireland) whereby my classic car (owned by me in my name) was insured in my wifes name with me as a named driver on it. My wife also had insurance on her own car (with a different insurer). 4.7l V8 petrol sports car with 310BHP for €325 fully comprehensive

bigtimecharlie

In the same boat with an e34 automatic. No way would i get rid of it for a Civic or similiar.

Yes, petrol and tax are a real pain but the comfort and space is second to none. Keep up with servicing and enjoy what you know best. Better the devil you know.

bigtimecharlie

bigtimecharlie wrote: »

In the same boat with an e34 automatic. ...........comfort and space is second to none

Having owned both a W124 Merc and an E34 I reckon the e34 comfort and space is 2nd to the W124

bigtimecharlie

RoverJames wrote: »

Having owned both a W124 Merc and an E34 I reckon the e34 comfort and space is 2nd to the W124

Maybe, but going from an e36 (Civic size) to the e34 was a huge improvment in space (elbow room).

Stevie Dakota

W124 may be more comfy, but anytime I was in one it felt like a boat, and those springy seats freaked me out. The E34 handled so much better, and felt far more modern IMO.

Most definitely the E34 handles much better when driven on, you can't really push a boggo W124 in twisty roads as it is not firm enough. You can hit speedbumps at looney speeds though in a W124 and not feel them as much as in the 5er :pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

Once had a 1984 W123 Mercedes 200, crashed it and needed any car cheap after that.
Ended up with a 1988 Mitsubishi Colt.
Whilst fun, the Mitsubishi felt like a sardine can compared to the Merc, you just don't get this "being wafted about on a giant sofa" kind of feel in a small tin can of a car.
All I wanted to do in the Merc was waft about whilst in the Mitsubishi all you do is buzz around like a fly in a tin can.
Is the saving worth the extra nastiness?

Bigus

The Merc is going up in value from here on out.

CabanasBoy

RoverJames wrote: »

Classic tax for that Merc is 14 years away under the current rules. Classic insurance is only an option if the OP is running a 2nd car.

I wasn't sure what the qualification was for classic status, thanks for clearing that up old boy.

ottostreet

Keep the Merc

The Bishop Basher

Bigus wrote: »

The Merc is going up in value from here on out.

Not quite yet but they will do at some stage. I toyed with the idea of keeping my 00 in storage but the costs were prohibitive.

Comparing the "E" and the 5 is liking comparing apples and oranges. The Merc is a cruiser with the smoothest ride you'll ever experience. The 5 is a drivers car, more about performance and handling then comfort. Both great cars in their own right.

thewintermute

I drive a 96 e-class and regularly drive a civic as two family members have them. I hate driving the Civic, I love driving the Merc. People compliment me on my Merc and it's condition, everyone who has ever gotten a lift from me has commented on how smooth it is and how comfortable 'for an old car'. It hasn't given a moments bother and I don't expect it to.The civic is very light to the touch and there's very little feel. It'll probably go on as long as the merc, but I doubt you'd be very happy with the trade down. I wouldn't. If money is tight I can see your point, but the saving isn't going to be huge and I find that a light foot can save a few quid easy enough.

Basil Fawlty

W124 Mercs are one of the best cars the world has ever seen. Ive had many over the years. They are cheap to maintain, and will never give you any nasty suprises with large bills.

ciarancapri

ciarancapri wrote: »

They are cheap to maintain, and will never give you any nasty suprises with large bills.

.......... ABS pumps ........ rear suspension ........... vacuum pipes (they can go at the joints) ........... fuel pumps on the diesels............ non of that stuff is particularly cheap.

Fine cars though as you say

Basil Fawlty

Well Ive been in the business of selling parts for Mercs for years and Ive never once been asked for an ABS pump or a diesel pump. Suspension parts a wear and tear and a very cheap to replace with o.e parts.

ciarancapri

ciarancapri wrote: »

Well Ive been in the business of selling parts for Mercs for years and Ive never once been asked for an ABS pump or a diesel pump. Suspension parts a wear and tear and a very cheap to replace with o.e parts.

The labour is the sh1tter with the suspension.

Basil Fawlty

RoverJames wrote: »

The labour is the sh1tter with the suspension.

The trick is to drop the whole subframe and do it all at once. No worries for another 150,000 miles!

Bumpstop

If you can afford to, keep the merc.
Going out in the Civic will just be driving, in the Merc it's an event.
Plus seeing the Civic won't put a smile on your face.(sorry Civic owners)

lomb

unkel wrote: »

That's not strictly true. Unless you are single

I had an arrangement (suggested to me by First Ireland) whereby my classic car (owned by me in my name) was insured in my wifes name with me as a named driver on it. My wife also had insurance on her own car (with a different insurer). 4.7l V8 petrol sports car with 310BHP for €325 fully comprehensive

what year is she out of interest?

Seweryn

RoverJames wrote: »

.......... ABS pumps ........ rear suspension ........... vacuum pipes (they can go at the joints) ........... fuel pumps on the diesels............ non of that stuff is particularly cheap.

ABS pump would very rarely go wrong. You would statistically have to replace it three times in a newer car, before you touch the one in the Benz.

Rear suspension elements are wear and tear parts, but they are cheap and once done will last for good 200k km.

Vacuum pipes - that is too cheap to mention, unless you have to pay for labour to locate the leak, but again, that goes rarely and in other cars you have electrics instead.

Fuel pump in the Diesel model - I have never heard of any failure of the fuel delivery pump. It is very, very simple mechanical unit. Unless if you mean injection pump.

If you mean the Diesel injection pump - again, you would have to replace one three times in any other Diesel engined car, before the one in W124 will need any attention (they quite often last a life time of the car). And it is cheap if you know where to go for parts. Last year I got a good injection pump for the 190D for about 60 Euro (the previous owner made complete mess with the pump by sticking silicone into every possible place). Even the replacement is an easy DIY job. There are a lot of second hand parts for sale for tiny money.

lomb

That Mercs still a lovely car. I was in a 95 W124 a while back and can say its still modern and nicer than todays smaller cars. Probably safer too..
You wouldnt consider upgrading to the 02 on ones? I know a guy who spent 90k on a new e240 avantgarde not too long ago , its worth about 7 now! Great car and great value.

Seweryn

Seweryn wrote: »

ABS pump would very rarely go wrong. You would statistically have to replace it three times in a newer car, before you touch the one in the Benz.

Well that's fair enough but considering the mileage on many W124s that are left on the road they may well be due one, statistically

Seweryn wrote: »

Rear suspension elements are wear and tear parts, but they are cheap and once done will last for good 200k km.

Dropping the subframe is not cheap, most folks pay garages to maintain their cars.

Seweryn wrote: »

Vacuum pipes - that is too cheap to mention, unless you have to pay for labour to locate the leak, but again, that goes rarely and in other cars you have electrics instead.

Too cheap to mention? Well the one that pulls the fuel supply to the diesel models that goes from the cabin to the diesel pump is hardly too cheap to mention if you are paying someone to do it. If it breaks on a T piece repair is very difficult and replacement requires replacement of the vacuum capsule/bowl thing, which is a real ball ache

Seweryn wrote: »

Fuel pump in the Diesel model - I have never heard of any failure of the fuel delivery pump. It is very, very simple mechanical unit. Unless if you mean injection pump.

If you mean the Diesel injection pump - again, you would have to replace one three times in any other Diesel engined car, before the one in W124 will need any attention (they quite often last a life time of the car). And it is cheap if you know where to go for parts. Last year I got a good injection pump for the 190D for about 60 Euro (the previous owner made complete mess with the pump by sticking silicone into every possible place). Even the replacement is an easy DIY job. There are a lot of second hand parts for sale for tiny money

I mean this one



and how they can leak diesel from




........ the delivery valve seals, try and do them DIY and you need a mega clean environment and if you get any grit or dirt in the pumping element it's ruined. Also over here trying to get the work done is fairly hard. So if you aren't willing to entertain a diesel drip ............




I like W124s, I got mine past an NCT for quite small money, to think that they are bulletproof and cheap to maintain now when their average age of what's left on the road is close to twenty is a tad optimistic. Especially the diesels as they have mega miles on them

Rose tinted glasses, take the feckers off

Seweryn

RoverJames wrote: »

Rose tinted glasses, take the feckers off

I agree with you there and to cut the story short, there are few things that I would like point out just to summarise:

- All the above faults do not appear any more often than in other cars. I would actually said - not often at all, most of them once in a life time. The only disadvantage of the Benz is its age and long history, most likely - unknown.
- Parts for the W124 series are very cheap. The Diesel injection pump vacuum shut of valve costs around €10 on the net and it is very easy to replace. You can buy a complete second hand injection pump for less than €100 and replace it yourself within around 2 hours if you are able to hold a spanner and read the manual.
- If you need to do the service works in a garage and pay the labour, then it is going to be expensive, no doubt about that. But then it is the same with any other car.
- Works to the suspension may require special tools or "heavy duty skills" (i.e. front ball joints), so usually that would need to be done in a garage. But again, high quality suspension parts in W124 last very long and once it's all done, you can forget about it for years.
- Last and most important - the condition of the bodywork and all the structural points are the most important and once this is gone beyond some stage, the repairs would usually make no economical sense.

SausageO

Thanks for all the replies, it seems practically everyone is in favour of keeping the old W124 rather than replacing it with a newer one. The saving of about €400 per year are dependent on nothing major going wrong with a newer replacement and the varying price of petrol.

I too have found parts surprisingly cheap and there are lots available secondhand. Mine has virtually no rust apart from a tiny spot on a front wing so for the sake of €8 per week I think I'll hang on to the Mercedes for a while yet. Better the devil you know...

You won't regret it, and if you do you have lost nothing in keeping her another while

Bigus

Swanner wrote: »

Not quite yet but they will do at some stage. I toyed with the idea of keeping my 00 in storage but the costs were prohibitive.

Comparing the "E" and the 5 is liking comparing apples and oranges. The Merc is a cruiser with the smoothest ride you'll ever experience. The 5 is a drivers car, more about performance and handling then comfort. Both great cars in their own right.

W124's are a better bet than 00 model hence the potential rise in value's

No electonic keys, steering locks and all the ECU sh1te that goes with them.

Seweryn

SausageO wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, it seems practically everyone is in favour of keeping the old W124 rather than replacing it with a newer one. The saving of about €400 per year are dependent on nothing major going wrong with a newer replacement and the varying price of petrol.

I too have found parts surprisingly cheap and there are lots available secondhand. Mine has virtually no rust apart from a tiny spot on a front wing so for the sake of €8 per week I think I'll hang on to the Mercedes for a while yet. Better the devil you know...

Regarding the rust on the front wing - I wouldn't bother repairing it at all, until it goes very bad. The front wing is not a structural part of the W124 chassis and it is fully bolt-on replacable. You can leave it and wait until you find a second hand wing in the same colour as your one to change it over. That would be a proper, cheap repair, as you do not have to pay for any spray painting, etc.

To keep your Benz in good rust-free condition you can get yourself a wax spray and inject it into the cavity of the chassis to prevent your car againts corosion.