why are footballers so afraid to come out?

amiable

Why are professional football players so afraid to come out?
Is the sport of football too macho to have gay players?
I've heard of a gay rugby team before.
Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the last big name player known to be gay Justin Fashanu?

liah

I'm not trying to generalize because certainly not all fans or workers in the industry are this way at all, but it's the kind of industry that attracts a lot of 'macho,' immature types; I'm not surprised they don't come out, as the flak they'd get would be insurmountable, both in the media, directly from 'fans' and probably from their teammates, too.

It's not right, in fact it's counterproductive as I'm sure if more came out the immaturity would die out, but it's at the very least an understandable reaction to try to protect oneself. It's the reason a lot of non-famous people don't come out, just on a much larger, and much more public scale.

maximoose

I'd imagine it would be because of the stick they would receive from opposing fans.

amiable

It seems crazy IMO.
Not that they are hiding it but that society is still so backward.
There's bound to be several Premier League players that are Gay and scared to come out.
I know of one in particular that has gone so far as to have a sham marriage to hide this.
Don't worry mods i won't name names.
It seems to me progress is made in racism in football but homophobia is ignored.
I'm open to correction on this of course

28064212

Justin Fashanu is the only professional footballer to ever come out. He was subjected to torrents of abuse.

It's a function of the demographics that football attracts. Rugby has a hugely different social fan-base. They tend to be middle-class, which is a much more liberal grouping. Soccer is a working-class game. The vast majority of people involved and supporting it are working-class. Homophobia is much more rampant in the lower classes

mikemac

Only case I can think of was Justin Fashanu, back when a £1 million transfer was very significant

Players get abuse from opposing fans at the best of times, now he became a huge target.
Newspapers published stories on him, some outright lies from the tabloids

He had mental health issues also, bit of a recluse and in the end committed suicide

If you were a player and hoping to earn money from endorsements and looking at this example, you'd be a brave person to do it

amiable

Justin Fashanu was so long ago and i had hoped we'd have moved on since then.
That was back when Elton John used to sing songs about women.

letsbehonest

I hope times have changed since Justin Fashanu commted suicide. I do know that the publicisr Max Clfford has advised soccer players not to come out and he often creates stories about them just to stop the media picking up on it. I do think that we will see players coming out in the next few years but they will nearly be retired when they do come out.
I still think there is a stigma attached to being gay in life no matter what job it is.
I found these videos very helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjU2FeU_3qI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYOPXyXEaQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9QDiASNfc8&feature=related

amiable

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/two-top-gay-footballers-stay-in-closet-1845787.html


Two top gay footballers stay in closet

</EM itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="784">
Max Clifford says football 'steeped in homophobia' as FA reveals Premier League stars are reluctant to speak up for gay rights
By Nick Harris and Hugh Godwin


Sunday, 20 December 2009



Britain's foremost PR advisor, Max Clifford, told The Independent on Sunday last night that he has represented two high-profile gay Premier League footballers in the past five years and has advised them to stay in the closet because football "remains in the dark ages, steeped in homophobia".

In the wake of the Wales and Lions rugby international Gareth Thomas coming out yesterday, Clifford says he cannot foresee a prominent footballer doing the same in the near future. "If he did, it would effectively be his career over, in my view," Clifford said.
"Do I think that's right? Of course not," he added. "It's a very sad state of affairs. But it's a fact that homophobia in football is as strong now as it was 10 years ago. If you'd asked me in 2000 whether I thought we'd have a famous, openly gay footballer by 2010 I would have said yes.


"You look across society and see openly gay people in music, movies, television, politics, the clergy, and it's not a problem, nor in many sports. It's not that footballers are homophobic but the fans can be vicious."
The IoS can also reveal that a Football Association anti-homophobia campaign has been stalled partly because its organisers have failed to secure big-name Premier League players to speak out against homophobia in a film that would be screened at grounds around the country.
"Unfortunately there seems to be a reluctance by some players and some clubs to speak up for gay rights," says Peter Clayton, who chairs the FA's "Homophobia in Football" working group. Clayton, 58, represents the Middlesex FA in the corridors of power and is the only openly gay FA councillor ever. He told the IoS yesterday: "It would take a very courageous Premier League footballer to come out because fans are so vociferous in football in a way they aren't in any other sport. There are also barriers to a player coming out from some clubs, firstly because the players are commercial assets and the clubs don't want those assets damaged, and secondly because a player coming out would cause disruption.
"There are gay players in the top division in English football, and some of them are out to their clubs and team-mates and nobody gives a jot. But there is a reluctance by some players and clubs to make public appeals against homophobia, perhaps through fear they would be thought of as gay themselves.
"The FA takes this issue very seriously and it's very high on the agenda. There are lots of gay footballers in Britain at grass-roots level and it's no problem. We do need to stamp out homophobia at the professional level, though, and just like anti-racism work, it will take time and education."
Thomas, 35, who plays for Cardiff Blues and is Wales' most capped player, came out in an interview with the Daily Mail. "It's tough for me being the only international rugby player prepared to break the taboo," he said. "I can't be the only one but I'm not aware of any other gay player still in the game."
Tellingly, both Thomas and Nigel Owens, the Welsh international rugby referee who came out when he was 32 in 2003, and publicly four years later, contemplated suicide before sharing their stories.
Owens, speaking to the IoS before refereeing a Heineken Cup match yesterday, said: "Why don't more players come out? It's a worry for us as individuals, whether you're involved in rugby or any sport. It's never easy being gay or accepting you're gay. Coming out isn't easy. Telling your mother isn't easy."
There has only been one openly gay man in English professional football, Justin Fashanu, who was taunted, bullied, and killed himself in 1998.
Clifford added: "I've had two high-profile Premier League football clients in the past five years who've been gay or bisexual and my advice has been not to make that public. For a top player to come out, I would envisage they'd be a hard man, with an established reputation, and perhaps a year or two at most left in the game, so if coming out brought too much hardship, it wouldn't matter so much professionally."

Dermo

Football hasn't gotten rid of racism yet, it's going to take a long long time for homophobia to be tackled. Look what has happened in Greece, a group of the Panathinaikos players have been constantly taunted with bananas and jeered when they get the ball. Even the Olympiakos fans invaded the pitch and physically attacked some of them just because they were black.
I would love to see the day when equality can exist in sports but it is not going to happen very soon

ongarboy

I guess the question has been answered by others on this thread already but here's my tuppence worth. It's not that it is exlusively hard for professional football players to come out vs easier for other people, be it in sporting professions or other categories . Football players just tend to fall into the exact same category as anyone else who fears what they rightly or wrongly perceive as the negative consequences of coming out. (ie a politician who is an elected representative of a socially conservative party, a clergy member of a religion that does not tolerate homosexuality, a teenage boy or girl who's parents and friends are homophobic, a construction worker who's workmates are constantly mocking gays, a boyband member whose success is pinned on being the fantasy of millions of teenage girls...need I go on??). The posters above have given specific examples of why it would be difficult for pro football players. While GAA is an amateur sport, there are similar consequences to a GAA star coming out (consequences of peer and loyal/rival supporter attitudes, commercial opportunities threatened) which is why it was a momentous occasion when Donal Og Cusack came out over a year ago. A precedent has now been set and from what I see, no negative reprecussions have arisen for Donal so hopefully it will lead to others being comfortably open about their sexuality.

amiable

Dermo wrote: »

Football hasn't gotten rid of racism yet, it's going to take a long long time for homophobia to be tackled. Look what has happened in Greece, a group of the Panathinaikos players have been constantly taunted with bananas and jeered when they get the ball. Even the Olympiakos fans invaded the pitch and physically attacked some of them just because they were black.
I would love to see the day when equality can exist in sports but it is not going to happen very soon

Good point.
I suppose when i stated earlier that Football had tackled Racism i should
have said in England which i believe it largely has

esposito

Very good topic this. Imagine if a high profile footballer came out tomorrow, say Messi (straight btw) for example. Would fans suddenly start booing the best player in the world just because of his sexuality? Food for thought.

More top sportsmen should have the balls to come out in this day and age and to follow the footsteps of Donal Og Cusack and Gareth Thomas. Now there's real role models.

amiable

esposito wrote: »

Very good topic this. Imagine if a high profile footballer came out tomorrow, say Messi (straight btw) for example. Would fans suddenly start booing the best player in the world just because of his sexuality? Food for thought.

More top sportsmen should have the balls to come out in this day and age and to follow the footsteps of Donal Og Cusack and Gareth Thomas. Now there's real role models.

I'm not sure about this statement.
Its up to those individuals IMO if they want to come out or not.
I don't like the idea of a player having a fake marriage though to cover up
but its hardly crime of the century.

28064212

esposito wrote: »

Very good topic this. Imagine if a high profile footballer came out tomorrow, say Messi (straight btw) for example. Would fans suddenly start booing the best player in the world just because of his sexuality? Food for thought.

Yes, they absolutely would. Have you ever been to a soccer game, sat in the 'real fans' section? Hell, look at the homophobic abuse Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole get because of the rumour that they're gay

LegacyUser

Given some of the appalling and personal chants by some soccer supporters to highly skilled, high profile and straight players such as David Beckham, on the most basic human level it would be a very brave, some might say foolhardy, player to come out while still playing in front of such crowds.

stephen_n

feelingstressed wrote: »

Only case I can think of was Justin Fashanu, back when a £1 million transfer was very significant

Players get abuse from opposing fans at the best of times, now he became a huge target.
Newspapers published stories on him, some outright lies from the tabloids

He had mental health issues also, bit of a recluse and in the end committed suicide

If you were a player and hoping to earn money from endorsements and looking at this example, you'd be a brave person to do it

Interesting way of looking at it but a lot of people would believe he committed suicide due to the issues around his sexuality and the pressure/abuse surrounding his coming out.

Endymion

Because your average football fan is one step above an ape picking peanuts out of it's own excrement.

Go on you gunners.

normaldude

yea if a footballer was out he would have to be very brave not only from fans but his teamates too I bet.

Mind you I know a high enough level irish league soccer player and most of his team know hes gay and they are ok with it, so things are changing.

Also I know of a inter-county footballer who is gay and some of the team know and all is cool but he not out to general public, so I guess it goes on in teams undercover:D

Marshy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/9409211.stm

riffmongous

Marshy wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/9409211.stm

Saw that on cricinfo, very brave of him since some of the places he could end up playing for England have a strong negative stance on homosexuality, Pakistan, Bangladesh,and especially Zimbabwe where it is completely illegal, although its unlikely he will ever have to play there anyway.

unreggd

The most shockin thing about this thread is that someone called football 'macho'

amiable

unreggd wrote: »

The most shockin thing about this thread is that someone called football 'macho'

Why is that?

unreggd

Just sayin how silly it is that football is perceived as THE macho sport, when its probly the least macho :P

Cardio and foot skill, manly as fxck :rolleyes:

amiable

unreggd wrote: »

The most shockin thing about this thread is that someone called football 'macho'

unreggd wrote: »

Just sayin how silly it is that football is perceived as THE macho sport, when its probly the least macho :P

Cardio and foot skill, manly as fxck :rolleyes:

liah wrote: »

I'm not trying to generalize because certainly not all fans or workers in the industry are this way at all, but it's the kind of industry that attracts a lot of 'macho,' immature types; I'm not surprised they don't come out, as the flak they'd get would be insurmountable, both in the media, directly from 'fans' and probably from their teammates, too.

It's not right, in fact it's counterproductive as I'm sure if more came out the immaturity would die out, but it's at the very least an understandable reaction to try to protect oneself. It's the reason a lot of non-famous people don't come out, just on a much larger, and much more public scale.

That person didn't describe football as macho.
I think you may need to re read the post.
That's the most shocking thing you've taken from this thread?
Speaks volumes imo

normaldude

Did anyone see the abuse Ashley Cole got when he got the ball last nite -'shooottttt' was rthe chant due to an incident that happened this week, couyld you imagine the abuse he got if he came out as gay.......at least he was the one smiling at the end of the game.

I was in a pub watching it, and a young manu fan lost it - are they the worst loser ever??:D

enda1

They are paid to play football, not to discuss their sexuality. How many have come out as being heterosexual?

amiable

enda1 wrote: »

They are paid to play football, not to discuss their sexuality. How many have come out as being heterosexual?

I see where you are coming from but where has anyone ever come out as being hetrosexual?

I think you are coming from the angle that there should be no need for anyone to come out?

I agree with that too but thats a big jump imo as we don't live in an ideal world.

enda1

amiable wrote: »

I see where you are coming from but where has anyone ever come out as being hetrosexual?

Well that's the point. Unless its somehow relevent, i.e. your in a relationship with the opposite sex and need to come out and be honest and say its over cause of xyz, or that you've portrayed yourself as something in a dishonest way to those that love you - I don't understand the concept of "comming out".

amiable wrote: »

I think you are coming from the angle that there should be no need for anyone to come out?

I agree with that too but thats a big jump imo as we don't live in an ideal world.

I don't think it requires an ideal world, I think we are there. It just requires players to be a bit stronger and tell reporters to focus on the football, not their private lives (this goes for the straight ones too by the way).

amiable

enda1 wrote: »

Well that's the point. Unless its somehow relevent, i.e. your in a relationship with the opposite sex and need to come out and be honest and say its over cause of xyz, or that you've portrayed yourself as something in a dishonest way to those that love you - I don't understand the concept of "comming out".



I don't think it requires an ideal world, I think we are there. It just requires players to be a bit stronger and tell reporters to focus on the football, not their private lives (this goes for the straight ones too by the way).

Well that's your opinion and you are quite entitled to it

enda1

amiable wrote: »

Well that's your opinion and you are quite entitled to it

Well what's yours? Do you feel footballs should declare to the world that they prefer men over women? That they like choc ices and find Indian food too spicy? That Ford's are the greatest cars and stamp collecting is a stimulating pastime?

Where does it end, and how is any of it in any way relevant?

amiable

enda1 wrote: »

Well what's yours? Do you feel footballs should declare to the world that they prefer men over women? That they like choc ices and find Indian food too spicy? That Ford's are the greatest cars and stamp collecting is a stimulating pastime?

Where does it end, and how is any of it in any way relevant?

Ah calm down will you.
Its relevant cos its a discussion because i wanted to gauge people's attitude.
Nobody forced you to partake in the thread.
I don't think it should be a case that footballers need to declare their sexuality.
I've never said that.
It would be lovely if there was no need for anyone to 'come out' but that's the world we live in.

enda1

amiable wrote: »

Ah calm down will you.
Its relevant cos its a discussion because i wanted to gauge people's attitude.
Nobody forced you to partake in the thread.
I don't think it should be a case that footballers need to declare their sexuality.
I've never said that.
It would be lovely if there was no need for anyone to 'come out' but that's the world we live in.

There's no need to patronise me, I am calm.

If its a discussion, then why not discuss rather than post thread killing sentences like "well that's you opinion" instead of replying to the opinion with you own?

I never said you said it, it was a question, hence the question marks.

This is not the world we live in. There is no requirement on anyone to "come out" to the public. What makes you think this requirement exists??

amiable

enda1 wrote: »

There's no need to patronise me, I am calm.

If its a discussion, then why not discuss rather than post thread killing sentences like "well that's you opinion" instead of replying to the opinion with you own?

I never said you said it, it was a question, hence the question marks.

This is not the world we live in. There is no requirement on anyone to "come out" to the public. What makes you think this requirement exists??

Bare with me and i'll get a source for that.
You took me up wrong on my statement.
Of course you are calm and of course right

ongarboy

amiable wrote: »

Well that's your opinion and you are quite entitled to it

And it's an interesting opinion! However, whether we like it or not, we as gay people are labelled by our sexuality. As long as wider society view it as something that is not the norm (not necessarily negative) or has an element of sensationalism attached, it will be highlighted above other more important attributes that a person has. Why did the Evening Herald lead an article yesterday with the headline, 2 openly gay TDs elected to Dail over any other achievements or attributes those two candidates have? I don't view this report as negative per se as it is a great development for politics, however in the ideal world, their gayness would be viewed with indifference.I do believe that there are some changes now in that in general (at least with liberal media), the connotation associated with being gay is less negative and more positive. People for the forseeable future will still have to "come out" I'm afraid. This doesn't mean they have to discuss their sexual kinks with their great gran aunt but it will have to come up in the context of situations like eg an acquaintance asking a gay bloke "what do you think of the rack on your one?" or "is there any girl you are interested in". A lot done and a lot more to do but we and society are heading in the right direction!

edwinkane

enda1 wrote: »

Well what's yours? Do you feel footballs should declare to the world that they prefer men over women? That they like choc ices and find Indian food too spicy? That Ford's are the greatest cars and stamp collecting is a stimulating pastime?

Where does it end, and how is any of it in any way relevant?

I couldn't agree more with this post. The sooner we all accept that being homosexual is as normal as fish and chips, then the sooner everyone else will also. Sometimes I get the feeling that some homosexual people like to think of themselves as different, and then castigate anyone else who thinks of them as different. Homosexuality is a preference, whether it be nature or nurture, and it's really no big deal anymore to the vast majority of the population I come across.

Meesared

edwinkane wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with this post. The sooner we all accept that being homosexual is as normal as fish and chips, then the sooner everyone else will also. Sometimes I get the feeling that some homosexual people like to think of themselves as different, and then castigate anyone else who thinks of them as different. Homosexuality is a preference, whether it be nature or nurture, and it's really no big deal anymore to the vast majority of the population I come across.

Preference? Since when?

edwinkane

Meesared wrote: »

Preference? Since when?

Preference as in sexual preference, whether it be the result of nature or nurture. As a term, it's been in existence for a long time, but am not sure exactly since when. Why do you ask?

Meesared

edwinkane wrote: »

Preference as in sexual preference, whether it be the result of nature or nurture. As a term, it's been in existence for a long time, but am not sure exactly since when. Why do you ask?

Never mind.... :rolleyes:

edwinkane

Meesared wrote: »

Never mind.... :rolleyes:

It's ok, I wan't planning on minding, but you did ask!

amiable

I just hear a Swedish footballer has 'come out'
Apparently he's the son of former Liverpool footballer Glen Hysen

28064212

amiable wrote: »

I just hear a Swedish footballer has 'come out'
Apparently he's the son of former Liverpool footballer Glen Hysen

Link

normaldude

This is great to see.

I think some of GAA plasyer could follow suit I know of a young gay kerry footballer, im sure there are more out there.......

Annasopra

enda1 wrote: »

They are paid to play football, not to discuss their sexuality. How many have come out as being heterosexual?

They don't have to! The public displays of their wives and girlfriends in newspapers and magazines says it all

L1011

Anton Hysen is also really rather cute, which helps

ninty9er

normaldude wrote: »

This is great to see.

I think some of GAA plasyer could follow suit I know of a young gay kerry footballer, im sure there are more out there.......

Been done

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/irsquom-gay-reveals-gaa-star-donal-og-cusack-in-new-autobiography-14535587.html

amiable

Seems it was deemed worthy of a thread in the soccer forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056205617

Exile 1798

amiable wrote: »

Why are professional football players so afraid to come out?
Is the sport of football too macho to have gay players?
I've heard of a gay rugby team before.
Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the last big name player known to be gay Justin Fashanu?

Football is often derided as being full of pansies, nancy boys ect. It's detractors claim it is "soft" This fosters a paranoid masculinity in Football culture that makes it very hard for players to come out.

Rugby on the other hand is held as being tough, macho, the ultimate man's sport. Therefore it's easier for gay Rugby players to be open.

It should be kept in mind that for all the commentary about how much more advanced Rugby is on this issue of openly gay players, who is it that in the main belittles Football and Footballers in often rather homophobic language? Ironically, it's Rugby people as well as fans of more heavy contact sports.

stephen_n

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Football is often derided as being full of pansies, nancy boys ect. It's detractors claim it is "soft" This fosters a paranoid masculinity in Football culture that makes it very hard for players to come out.

Rugby on the other hand is held as being tough, macho, the ultimate man's sport. Therefore it's easier for gay Rugby players to be open.

It should be kept in mind that for all the commentary about how much more advanced Rugby is on this issue of openly gay players, who is it that in the main belittles Football and Footballers in often rather homophobic language? Ironically, it's Rugby people as well as fans of more heavy contact sports.

In fairness there aren't alot of openly gay rugby players at the higher echelons of the game, having said that from being involved with the warriors I can say for most part the reaction from the established teams has been fairly healthy and positive and it does seem that those who play and follow rugby would generally be more accepting of the idea! I'm don't think the Dublin Devils have had quite as positive an experience but maybe if there is someone on here from their team they could give a better opinion on that!

diddlybit

The Hysen case is interesting because his father was involved in an incident a couple of years ago when he beat up a man in a bathroom for coming on to him. Many concluded that he was a homophobe and when he spoke at Stockholm Pride, activists found it highly inappropriate.

“Until now only my family and friends have known about my sexuality – well I think so, at least,” the younger Hysén told Offside. “That was the funniest thing when my dad made that speech. When he was talking about ‘a 16-year-old who didn’t want to come out because he feared what his team‑mates would think’, that was me. And people thought it so bloody strange that he was allowed to speak at the Pride Festival, that he was a homophobe and so on. ****, they were so wrong.”

http://www.autostraddle.com/on-anton-hysen-coming-out-and-why-this-is-a-bfd-even-if-you-hate-soccer-80119/

I think it's very brave thing to do, but unfortunately I don't think it's going to be easy for him. One of the Sweedish channels had to pull an article on him because of the abuse that was being directed towards him. (Presumably in the comment section.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/13/anton-glenn-hysen-gay-pride