External insulation warranties

sas

Somthing I've become aware of is that there are big question marks over the warranties on external insulation systems based on the manner in which they are sold.

In most cases (all cases for that I've seen) an external insulation system is applied by a contractor that has been trained by the system supplier. The contractor is not an employee of the supplier however.

The system supplier provides a materials warranty.

The applicator (may) provide a labour warranty. This doesn't even appear to be clear. In the current climate, companies are falling quick and fast and hence any warranty they do offer is worth little.

The bottom line for me however is that if something goes wrong, finger pointing will occur between applicator and supplier. IAB certification isn't a warranty so it's of little use if something goes wrong.

Is this yet another one of those occasions when one must hope for the best?

What are peoples experiences with warranties in construction? I'm particularly interested in the opinions of our construction professionals opinions.

I appreciate that I am wandering close to consumer rights here. I do feel this is relevant to this forum however given that it is a system that is being lauded as the one of the best solutions to upgrading our existing housing stock.

slavetothegrind

well from experience of a good friend of mine and a well known company i can tell you it's pot luck for the consumer.
his job has been a disaster in it's third month now still not finished .
NSAI refuse to come out and examine the job, apparently not something they do so who checks up on the installers?
the suppliers?
nobody?
lucky for him he holds over half the agreed price still or he would be left with an awfull mess.

sas

slavetothegrind wrote: »

well from experience of a good friend of mine and a well known company i can tell you it's pot luck for the consumer.
his job has been a disaster in it's third month now still not finished .
NSAI refuse to come out and examine the job, apparently not something they do so who checks up on the installers?
the suppliers?
nobody?
lucky for him he holds over half the agreed price still or he would be left with an awfull mess.

What I'm getting promised is that the supplier will check the work as it's happening.

Sounds like an awful predicament for your friend. Is it that the job is just slow or are there questions on the quality?

slavetothegrind

first job was so bad the subsequent subbies were amazed and insisted it be removed completely.
they got half way through and seem to have come to a standstill.

my guess is money issues but that's just a guess.

first job would make you seasick looking at the reveals:(

braftery

There are two different issues in discussion here.

1. EWI Warranties.

My understanding of EWI systems is that the system manufacture must stand over the work of accredited system fitters.

I do not have experience of EWI, but I have experience of roof systems where the same holds true. I used a system roof on my home. about 3 months after it was installed we had a leak. I contacted the system manufacturer and he arrange to visit site with the fitter. We went through the possibilities and it got sorted out.

The system manufacturer explained that if the fitter did not stand over the work then they would be delisted and would lose any work from the manufacturer .. In short they would be shutting down their own business.

That is not to say that you wont get bad fitters which leads us on to ....

2. The lack of Building control in Ireland

Light touch regulation existed in not only the banking sector.
The construction industry badly needs building control.

People say we have regulations, but in truth there are RAL and EN norms for every aspect of construction in Europe and in Ireland we have ignored them all and put our faith in a HomeBond book .. which is both outdated and incomplete.

There are RAL norms for applying EWI and in most countries in Europe if it is not applied in that way the applicator is liable for the cost of repairing the work ... and he must carry insurance against potential damages.

The cost of doing the job properly and having the insurance cover in case of issues increases the price for the work, but adds the security of knowing you are covered.

It appears in Ireland we have chosen the lowest-cost / no-security approach to building. But put simply we cant have it both ways.

Cheapest price rarely represents best value.

sas

braftery wrote: »

Cheapest price rarely represents best value.

I appreciate the sentiment but neither of us stated that we were going with the cheapest option.

On my project I eliminated all non German\Austrian EWI systems pretty much immediately.

Of the 2 companys I'm talking to, 1 is a highly reputable german company supplying renders and EWI systems and the other is a very large Irish company who happen to be agents for a reputable german system.

I have yet to receive the commitment that either will stand over their approved installers work. This is ongoing however.

braftery

The comment was not intended to relate to either of you directly ..

Simply a statement about the methodolgy that seems prevelant within the construction industry in general and the dangers of this in a market that has no building control system.

In Ireland there is no protection for any party in the building process.

I am very sorry and a little saddened to hear that neither company will stand over the approved fitters work.

Is there a distributor in between the primary manufacturer and the fitters in both cases ?

sas

braftery wrote: »

Is there a distributor in between the primary manufacturer and the fitters in both cases ?

One of them is an actual german company with offices here. Nice snappy short name... Underlying tone of arrogance from their salesman, no warranty concerns here, we're an established world class company, blah blah blah....
I do believe their products are very good however which is the only reason they are still in the picture.

One of them is a large Irish company (based in Dublin) who are only distributers for a system.
They are looking into the details of their insurance based system for me so all is not lost yet.

Tifosi

SAS

I would be very interested to know who you are considering to use if that is not too much to ask. Could you PM me.