Green Party/political commentary thread.

flutered

your party aided and abetted ff in the rape of my country, forgrt it madam.

cullen5998

Green = forget about it!

Widescreen

When I see the price of petrol almost 1.50 a litre the Green Party and all their crazy policies including carbon tax spring to mind.

Green means Gre(if) as far as I am concerned...

flutered

koyasan, the carbon tax will never reduce our dependance on fossil fuels, it is a stealth tax.

TestTransmission

Let's hope the green party doesn't exist after this election and gets obliterated.

Kess73

Once I see the Green Party beside a candidate's name, then that candidate has no chance of a vote from me.


In my opinion that Party has done nothing but spoof it's way through it's time as part of the government, and looked to bring in taxes on products and services without providing people with viable alternatives.

flutered

sad but true willie o dea has done more for ireland than the green party

Kess73

flutered wrote: »

sad but true willie o dea has done more for ireland than the green party

I would not be that harsh towards the Greens.:p

mikom

*Sound of bio-fuel powered chopper making a swift ascent with Sheila Cahill gripping tightly to the rope ladder*

Kess73

osarusan wrote: »

First of all, fair play to you for looking to communicate with your constituents in this way - you're the only Limerick city candidate who has done so. It takes a bit of courage for any politician to take this approach, as there is much less control of the electorate's response than a lot of other ways of canvassing (as is obvious from most of the posts so far).

Whilst I have no time for the Greens and, by association, any candidate they put forward under their banner, you are spot on in what you said there. She does deserve kudos for coming on here.

At least she is trying to approach people, and the responses she gets may be helpful to her as it may hammer home the depth of feeling towards the party she is currently involved with.


If this candidate was an independant, or even coming under the Labour or Fine Gael banners, I would be interested in hearing her opinions and what she hoped to do if elected. But as I have no faith whatsoever in her party and don't believe a word that her party leader says, then a vote for her or her county counterpart is nothing more than a wasted vote in my eyes.

Widescreen

TestTransmission wrote: »

Let's hope the green party doesn't exist after this election and gets obliterated.

+1 and everyone I know:)

Dumdum McCarthy

"EARTH" to Sheila" "Sheila come in?"

limklad

flutered wrote: »

sad but true willie o dea has done more for ireland than the green party

I am falling over my arse at this comment.

On a serious note willie has done very little for Limerick. Very few Jobs created by him and lost huge amounts under his tenure in the Dail. Beside calling to funerals of every tome dick and harry. He as done little for the City. I would not call regeneration he success story as Limerick City comes to the attention of the Government and embarrassed them with high crime and deaths due to crime.

johncarter

Hi

Here's a mad idea, a Dail with 166 independent TDs. No parties. No towing the party line. All TDs votes recorded for public record. Come election time joe blogs votes incumbent representative in or out.

regs jc

DarkJager

johncarter wrote: »

Hi

Here's a mad idea, a Dail with 166 independent TDs. No parties. No towing the party line. All TDs votes recorded for public record. Come election time joe blogs votes incumbent representative in or out.

regs jc

No way. Absolutely not. A government made of up 166 gombeens all fighting over each other to get a new road/hospital built in their area while the country itself goes to ****? No thanks.

panda100 wrote:

Just looked at the Boards GE election poll, and Willie O'Dea is still getting a large portion of the vote
What are people thinking really? I was on FAS this morning and all the jobs were working for the dole. Full time jobs for qualified teachers and nurses, all for 200 quid a week.
I'm a fully qualified disability support worker, and been working in the field for the last 5 years with masses of experience, and I'm expected to work for 7.65 an hour now. I would f*cking love to see Willie O'Dea work a full days hard work with me and feel satisfied taking home €60 at the end of it.That barely covers my petrol!
I did calculations last night and Mary Harney's once off bonus payment for leaving the dail is that same as what I earn in 15 years, and that was even during the 'good' times!The Greens did nothing to stop the demise of this country and presided in facilitating the gross inequality between rich and poor.

I have nobody to vote for in West Limerick as FG and Labour are the exact same as FF. I wish I had transferred my vote to Limerick city and I would definitely be voting for Cian Prendivelle and the United Left Alliance. I feel nothing but disenfranchised during this election, and despite being a bright,intelligent hard worker, I see no future in this country for me If FG get in, and will be booking a one way ticket out of here.

What are the United Left Alliance promising? More populist bull**** the likes of the Socialist party have been throwing out? None of these "angsty" vote parties are offering anything credible, just a load of sugar coated promises they think people want to hear.

As for Willie O'Dea, he only gets votes because idiotic people hand them to him after he comes to the doorstep, shakes a few hands and mumbles a bit. Because he's "old Willie O'Dea", the man who walks the dock road, man of the people - who has done absolutely **** all of note for this city or the country apart from hyping some imaginary brothel. If he gets back in, its a scary indication of complete idiocy in a section of the electorate.

phill106

I'd like to see the breakdown per every euro spent on petrol, how much the government gets out of it.
All very well saying carbon is bad, but how are those of us outside dublin city centre supposed to get to work? I live in shannon, work near mungret.
Until we have an effective, nationwide, affordable public transport system, servicing all areas, don't put up fuel costs!

krudler

Is it possible to bottle the air that comes out of Green Party candidates and use that as a viable fuel? you could inflate a zeppelin with some of their ramblings.

Itsdacraic

Relative to the amount of power they produce are those wind turbines worth spoiling the view of every hillside in the country with?

zulutango

Some of you seem to be a bit confused as to how wind and wave energy can power cars.

These technologies generate electricty. In around ten years time, electric cars will be commonplace on our roads.

If we are sensible, we will invest heavily in wind and wave technology, as we have bucket-loads of this type of energy in Ireland. In fact, our wind and wave resource is akin to what the Arab nations have in oil, so we would be foolish not to try and exploit it.

On wind power, bear in mind that other European countries (Spain, Denmark, Germany) got into the research and development of it after the first oil crisis back in the mid-70's. Even though Ireland had far greater potential, it did not go down this road. Now, those countries have multi-billion euro industries based around wind technology, and we don't have any. We must import our wind turbines at huge cost, when we could have created thousands of jobs in this area and benefitted the country enormously.

Let's not make the same mistake with wave power.

zulutango

limerick_woody wrote: »

I would have real sympathy with Green politics and prior to your time in Government would have voted green. However, your party enabled the destruction of an entire Irish generation's hopes and dreams. I can never vote for your party again - ever, I hope your party is utterly destroyed in the election.

It might seem a bit pedantic, but wasn't it the FF - PD governments of 1997 - 2007 that destroyed the country? The Greens, to be fair to them, were the ones left with the job of trying to fix it.

If you're going to be so determined in according blame, you should at least not be totally misinformed.

zulutango

phill106 wrote: »

I'd like to see the breakdown per every euro spent on petrol, how much the government gets out of it.
All very well saying carbon is bad, but how are those of us outside dublin city centre supposed to get to work? I live in shannon, work near mungret.
Until we have an effective, nationwide, affordable public transport system, servicing all areas, don't put up fuel costs!

You'll have to agree that it might not be feasible to have public transport serving every little boreen in the country?

Again, to be fair to the Greens, their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport, as well as all other vital services. Having a population so widely dispersed as we currently have just makes life difficult (and bloody expensive!!) for everyone. We actually have the most widely dispersed population in Europe. It just makes no sense at all.

Stuffy

Its all well and good defending the Greens but the seeds are most definitely sown. They are going to get obliterated in this election and I'm looking forward to it

phog

zulutango wrote: »

You'll have to agree that it might not be feasible to have public transport serving every little boreen in the country?

Again, to be fair to the Greens, their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport, as well as all other vital services. Having a population so widely dispersed as we currently have just makes life difficult (and bloody expensive!!) for everyone. We actually have the most widely dispersed population in Europe. It just makes no sense at all.

So we all move to urban areas, who pays for this?

zulutango

Stuffy wrote: »

Its all well and good defending the Greens but the seeds are most definitely sown. They are going to get obliterated in this election and I'm looking forward to it

Perhaps they will get obliterated, Stuffy, but bear in mind that the Irish electorate has never covered itself in glory. I suspect that in this election it isn't about to buck that trend!

When I read this thread I thought it was quite admirable that a candidate would freely offer to answer questions openly and honestly in a forum like this. I haven't seen other candidates do this. But most of the responses have been cheap, snide or ill-thought out remarks that simply betray the ignorance of those make them.

If this is the level of political discourse that we have in Ireland, well what hope have we?

zulutango

phog wrote: »

So we all move to urban areas, who pays for this?

It's a debate worth having, Phog.

Almost every other country in Europe has become a predominantly urban one. It's not something that will happen overnight in Ireland of course. But over time, if we are to enjoy good public services, this is the only way reasonable way forward.

At the moment in Ireland, we're strecthing a pretty small population very thinly across a wide geographical area. Makes no sense at all.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

You'll have to agree that it might not be feasible to have public transport serving every little boreen in the country?

Again, to be fair to the Greens, their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport, as well as all other vital services. Having a population so widely dispersed as we currently have just makes life difficult (and bloody expensive!!) for everyone. We actually have the most widely dispersed population in Europe. It just makes no sense at all.

The route that the poster mentioned is hardly a little boreen. Coming from the direction the poster mentioned, once he got to Limerick from Shannon, he would need to travel out the N69 to get to Mungret. Given that it is a national route, it hardly qualifies as a boreen.

You say that their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport. Take Foynes, Newcastle West and that area. If a person there wants to work in town or a person in town gets a job there, what is the public transport like for getting to and from work if a person has early starts or late finishes? Pretty poor is the answer.

It is all well and good pushing up the price of petrol and diesel and saying to people that they should avail of public transport, but in a hell of a lot of cases that public transport is simply not there, and often it is more expensive in many cases to use public transport over using a car, as is the case with going by train.

Given the current climate, people have to take jobs where they can get them, so having to travel to other towns or cities is something people simply have to do if they want to work.

Stuffy

zulutango wrote: »

When I read this thread I thought it was quite admirable that a candidate would freely offer to answer questions openly and honestly in a forum like this. I haven't seen other candidates do this. But most of the responses have been cheap, snide or ill-thought out remarks that simply betray the ignorance of those make them.

I have also stated how admirable it was that she answered questions, as have others, and I'm sure people appreciate it, even if some of her answers were questionable.

When somebody associates themselves with a deceitful party such as the Greens they should be aware that there is a possibility they will be tarred with the brush that they are a bunch of liars and cheats. I have tarred Sheila with this brush, but then again she was the one that handed it to me by declaring her support for the party.

The 'cheap, snide or ill-thought out remarks' are no worse than what has been thrown in our face from the party since 2007. It is now the electorates turn to convey their opinions, and the Greens will be shown up for the liability they are.

It's nothing personal against Sheila, and if she had run independently I would have looked into her manifesto, but she will possibly get annihilated in the forthcoming election. I'm sure she was aware of this when she posted her colours to the mast.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

Some of you seem to be a bit confused as to how wind and wave energy can power cars.

These technologies generate electricty. In around ten years time, electric cars will be commonplace on our roads.

If we are sensible, we will invest heavily in wind and wave technology, as we have bucket-loads of this type of energy in Ireland. In fact, our wind and wave resource is akin to what the Arab nations have in oil, so we would be foolish not to try and exploit it.

On wind power, bear in mind that other European countries (Spain, Denmark, Germany) got into the research and development of it after the first oil crisis back in the mid-70's. Even though Ireland had far greater potential, it did not go down this road. Now, those countries have multi-billion euro industries based around wind technology, and we don't have any. We must import our wind turbines at huge cost, when we could have created thousands of jobs in this area and benefitted the country enormously.

Let's not make the same mistake with wave power.

Electric cars will be commonplace on Irish roads within a decade? Define commonplace for me please.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, then headed by Eamon Ryan, announced on 12th April last year that they were hoping to have electric cars making up between 4% and 10% of the number of cars in Ireland by 2020 if everything went 100% to plan. That is also based on drivers only driving 75km or less per day.


So if it all goes to plan, then we are talking about a maximum of 10% of cars being electric in Ireland by the end of the decade, hardly commonplace.



I totally agree with you on the need to invest heavily in wind and wave technology though, and am baffled as to why there is not more done in both fields.

zulutango

Kess73 wrote: »

The route that the poster mentioned is hardly a little boreen. Coming from the direction the poster mentioned, once he got to Limerick from Shannon, he would need to travel out the N69 to get to Mungret. Given that it is a national route, it hardly qualifies as a boreen.

You say that their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport. Take Foynes, Newcastle West and that area. If a person there wants to work in town or a person in town gets a job there, what is the public transport like for getting to and from work if a person has early starts or late finishes? Pretty poor is the answer.

It is all well and good pushing up the price of petrol and diesel and saying to people that they should avail of public transport, but in a hell of a lot of cases that public transport is simply not there, and often it is more expensive in many cases to use public transport over using a car, as is the case with going by train.

Given the current climate, people have to take jobs where they can get them, so having to travel to other towns or cities is something people simply have to do if they want to work.

No, Kess, the original poster said "Until we have an effective, nationwide, affordable public transport system, servicing all areas, don't put up fuel costs!". My point was in response to that. It doesn't make sense to be bringing public transport to all areas. There is nothing radical in that is there? Can't see how aybody would disagree.

You're right about the current state of public transport. It's abysmal. But it's not going to be sorted overnight. We do need massive investment in public transport, but we also have to get over our addiction to oil. It'll take a generation of both the carrot and stick approach to see the change that is required, I suspect.

On the carbon levy, this is something that most other EU countries have implemented and all the mainstream Irish political parties are in favour of, so let's not get irrational because the Greens had the guts to push it through. It was, after all, something that was was necessary and was coming anyway.

zulutango

Kess73 wrote: »

Electric cars will be commonplace on Irish roads within a decade? Define commonplace for me please.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, then headed by Eamon Ryan, announced on 12th April last year that they were hoping to have electric cars making up between 4% and 10% of the number of cars in Ireland by 2020 if everything went 100% to plan. That is also based on drivers only driving 75km or less per day.

So if it all goes to plan, then we are talking about a maximum of 10% of cars being electric in Ireland by the end of the decade, hardly commonplace.

I totally agree with you on the need to invest heavily in wind and wave technology though, and am baffled as to why there is not more done in both fields.

Semantics

One in ten cars is pretty commonplace, no? I'm sure we all agree that cars will be powered by electricity in the not too distant future, and we should prepare for that.

DarkJager

zulutango wrote: »

No, Kess, the original poster said "Until we have an effective, nationwide, affordable public transport system, servicing all areas, don't put up fuel costs!". My point was in response to that. It doesn't make sense to be bringing public transport to all areas. There is nothing radical in that is there? Can't see how aybody would disagree.

You're right about the current state of public transport. It's abysmal. But it's not going to be sorted overnight. We do need massive investment in public transport, but we also have to get over our addiction to oil. It'll take a generation of both the carrot and stick approach to see the change that is required, I suspect.

On the carbon levy, this is something that most other EU countries have implemented and all the mainstream Irish political parties are in favour of, so let's not get irrational because the Greens had the guts to push it through. It was, after all, something that was was necessary and was coming anyway.

I suspect that other countries who are clamouring to introduce Carbon Levy (which in current economic circumstances isn't a good idea anywhere) aren't anywhere near €3 for 2 litres of petrol. Its a stupid ill thought out stealth tax, that is there to punish people for using cars and drive them on to a sub standard public transport system or cycle a bicycle. Tree hugging nonsense, much like everything the Green party based itself on.

zulutango

DarkJager wrote: »

I suspect that other countries who are clamouring to introduce Carbon Levy (which in current economic circumstances isn't a good idea anywhere) aren't anywhere near €3 for 2 litres of petrol. Its a stupid ill thought out stealth tax, that is there to punish people for using cars and drive them on to a sub standard public transport system or cycle a bicycle. Tree hugging nonsense, much like everything the Green party based itself on.

I'm afraid it's a bit rich to accuse anyone else of speaking nonsense when you write the above! The carbon tax on two litres of petrol amounts to about 8c, not €3.

DarkJager

zulutango wrote: »

I'm afraid it's a bit rich to accuse anyone else of speaking nonsense when you write the above! The carbon tax on two litres of petrol amounts to about 8c, not €3.

The Government tax take from the price alone is nearly 70%. The current price of petrol is nearing €1.48 per litre, and thats with your carbon tax on it. No wonder Gormless cycles a bicycle because he certainly doesn't have a ****ing clue what its like to be a motorist.

zulutango

DarkJager wrote: »

The Government tax take from the price alone is nearly 70%. The current price of petrol is nearing €1.48 per litre, and thats with your carbon tax on it. No wonder Gormless cycles a bicycle because he certainly doesn't have a ****ing clue what its like to be a motorist.

Sorry, I am talking about the carbon levy on petrol, which is pretty small.

You seem to be talking about general taxation on petrol which is a different argument and nothing to do with the Greens.

You seem to be confusing the two.

DarkJager

zulutango wrote: »

Sorry, I am talking about the carbon levy on petrol, which is pretty small.

You seem to be talking about general taxation on petrol which is a different argument and nothing to do with the Greens.

You seem to be confusing the two.

Regardless, their extra 8c "save the planet" levy is still putting 8c more on to the cost of petrol and it all adds up the more litres you put in. An unneccesary 8c extra, so the Greens can feel good about themselves.

As the economy is now in **** (like the majority of taxpayers), its now time for all this tree hugging bull**** nonsense to get out. Its not relevant now, and all these policies to cut carbon and save trees etc are hitting people in the pocket at a time when they need their money the most.

krudler

DarkJager wrote: »

Regardless, their extra 8c "save the planet" levy is still putting 8c more on to the cost of petrol and it all adds up the more litres you put in. An unneccesary 8c extra, so the Greens can feel good about themselves.

As the economy is now in **** (like the majority of taxpayers), its now time for all this tree hugging bull**** nonsense to get out. Its not relevant now, and all these policies to cut carbon and save trees etc are hitting people in the pocket at a time when they need their money the most.

We should all do what the greens clearly do, cycle to work on our handcrafted bikes made from homegrown wood.

DarkJager

krudler wrote: »

We should all do what the greens clearly do, cycle to work on our handcrafted bikes made from homegrown wood.

I had a great idea to invite Gormley around to watch me burning a stack of tires, just so I could see the little carbon neutral tears roll down his face. Unfortunately after Friday, he'll just be another tree hugger out of a job and there won't be much point.

Insect Overlord

I've spliced these posts over from the Ask The Candidate thread. zulutango (and others), the questions posed in that thread should be answered by Sheila, and not turned into a general political chat. Otherwise the system won't work.

Anyway, carry on here as ye were over there.

phill106

zulutango wrote: »

You'll have to agree that it might not be feasible to have public transport serving every little boreen in the country?

Again, to be fair to the Greens, their policy is to develop strong towns and cities that are adequately serviced by public transport, as well as all other vital services. Having a population so widely dispersed as we currently have just makes life difficult (and bloody expensive!!) for everyone. We actually have the most widely dispersed population in Europe. It just makes no sense at all.

Not to every boreen though, but where they are in place, they need to work well enough so that is a viable alternative to owning a car. That includes running late at night and early morning. We have 24 hour bus lanes in limerick with no 24 hour buses to run on them, where is the logic in that?

krudler

phill106 wrote: »

Not to every boreen though, but where they are in place, they need to work well enough so that is a viable alternative to owning a car. That includes running late at night and early morning. We have 24 hour bus lanes in limerick with no 24 hour buses to run on them, where is the logic in that?

This is Ireland, common sense and logic went out the window with our economy and future.

osarusan

I agree that the idea of making life more difficult and expensive for motorists in order to push them towards public transport is stupid when that public transport is hopelessly inadequate (though many of the bus routes in the city have busses into the city centre before 8, and last bus back is after 10.30)

But Limerick is far too small a city for a 24 hour bus service.

phill106

osarusan wrote: »

I agree that the idea of making life more difficult and expensive for motorists in order to push them towards public transport is stupid when that public transport is hopelessly inadequate (though many of the bus routes in the city have busses into the city centre before 8, and last bus back is after 10.30)

But Limerick is far too small a city for a 24 hour bus service.

Wouldnt mind a few busses to shannon after 11pm, costs a fortune to get taxis if i go out in limerick.

So we can get rid of the 24 hour bus lanes so....

Grumpypants

DarkJager wrote: »

Regardless, their extra 8c "save the planet" levy is still putting 8c more on to the cost of petrol and it all adds up the more litres you put in. An unneccesary 8c extra, so the Greens can feel good about themselves.

As the economy is now in **** (like the majority of taxpayers), its now time for all this tree hugging bull**** nonsense to get out. Its not relevant now, and all these policies to cut carbon and save trees etc are hitting people in the pocket at a time when they need their money the most.

This makes no sense, you complain that the economy is gone to the dogs yet a tiny tax that goes straight into creating jobs and boosting the economy you moan about having to pay

This carbon tax of 3c goes straight into renewable energies and retro fitting houses and if you know anyone working in construction these are the only growing sectors. The 80cent that the other parties have put on petrol just goes into the pot to be wasted.

So what you a proposing is to remove this tax put another few thousand people out of work to help the economy

phill106

Actually the petrol and diesel taxing has already gone beyond diminishing returns. People are now driving less as a direct result of the high prices of fuel. Next government will have to lower the amount of revenue they get from fuel, the taxes were set when fuel prices were low and out economy steady.

DarkJager

Grumpypants wrote: »

This makes no sense, you complain that the economy is gone to the dogs yet a tiny tax that goes straight into creating jobs and boosting the economy you moan about having to pay

This carbon tax of 3c goes straight into renewable energies and retro fitting houses and if you know anyone working in construction these are the only growing sectors. The 80cent that the other parties have put on petrol just goes into the pot to be wasted.

So what you a proposing is to remove this tax put another few thousand people out of work to help the economy

Goes straight in to creating jobs and boosting the economy??? Show me where this has happened and how a levy on petrol is doing anything for either of them. In fact, for businesses relying on transport and for employees who use their cars for work - the cost has risen significantly. I think that has more chance of shutting down business and hitting people in the pocket more than anything its patethic existance could contribute to job creation or the economy.

If renewable energy and retrofitting is a growing sector, it won't need a carbon tax on fuel to support it so that doesn't make any sense.

This tax hasn't helped any creation of jobs but it sure as hell has all the potential of causing further damage to them.

Grumpypants

DarkJager wrote: »

Goes straight in to creating jobs and boosting the economy??? Show me where this has happened and how a levy on petrol is doing anything for either of them. In fact, for businesses relying on transport and for employees who use their cars for work - the cost has risen significantly. I think that has more chance of shutting down business and hitting people in the pocket more than anything its patethic existance could contribute to job creation or the economy.

If renewable energy and retrofitting is a growing sector, it won't need a carbon tax on fuel to support it so that doesn't make any sense.

This tax hasn't helped any creation of jobs but it sure as hell has all the potential of causing further damage to them.

I would go into explaining why governments need to spend money to create jobs even in growing sectors, or for example why spending money to bring companies such as microsoft, google, paypal and intel to Ireland was important but it would take me too long.

How about you show me how a 3 cent tax on petrol is having a worse effect on business than the 80cent tax on petrol.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

Semantics

One in ten cars is pretty commonplace, no? I'm sure we all agree that cars will be powered by electricity in the not too distant future, and we should prepare for that.

Yeah but the 1 in 10 was their best case scenario. But seeing as the plan to have the first 3530 recharge stations (3500 standard charge points mationwide and 30 fast charge points for Dublin) up and running by the end of December this year is already well behind schedule after almost two months of the year, I won't be holding out much hope for the final figure for 2020 being anywhere close to 1 in 10.

The charge points scheduled for 2010 also fell below the minimum amount that was forecast.

My gut tells me it will be like many of the other projects that the Finna Fail/Green government were quick to pat themselves on the back in public over.

Lots of big promises followed by failure to hit minimum year on year targets.