Why Labour Shall be getting my vote.

Dr. Baltar

Like many of you here, I would consider myself a Liberal Conservative or even a 'small l libertarian'. And after much debate with myself I've decided that on Friday I'll be giving Labour my number 1 preference vote for the election.
The reasoning is quite simple and comes from a matter of elimination:


1. Fianna Fáil - I will be tactically voting against Fianna Fáil in this election. They were the men steering the ship when it crashed into the iceberg, and whether it was an accident or not the buck stops at Brian Cowen's desk and I intend to use this election to punish their (lack of) management of the economy.

2. Green Party - I like the Green Party. They strike me as straight talking and honest. But let's be honest. The majority of their policies have now been taken on board by other parties making them obsolete. And on another note, nobody wants more taxes when we're already feeling the pinch. Finally, the nail in the coffin for me is the fact that they were in bed with Fianna Fail at the time of the crash. They can wash off the dirt, but AIDS never leaves.

3. Sinn Féin - Pearse Doherty's speech stuck with me for a long time. SF is a party that has the power of emotion. If I were to vote with emotions, namely anger, they would be the guys to get my vote. But now is not a time to be emotional. Now is a time to be logical, and Sinn Féin's economic policies are a load of balls. Nearly had me though.

4. ULA - See Sinn Féin

5. Independents - The next government is either going to be a Fine Gael Majority or a Fine Gael/Labour government. Independents are going to have no say either way. The third option, is of course a Labour led Left Alliance, with Left Wing independents, but I couldn't support such a government anyway.

6. Fine Gael - With the death of the Progressive Democrats, Fine Gael's economic policies became the closest to my own. However, my politics cannot, will not, allow me to vote for a party that is as socially conservative as Fine Gael. I care not for Catholic Ireland, I have no time for "Family Values" and I certainly cannot support a party that is not for same sex marriage. Fine Gael strike me as a party that like Fianna Fáil would have brought in a blasphemy law and would continue this ridiculous non separation of church and state that we still have in this country.

So I am a reluctant Labour voter. Why? Because I cannot allow a Fine Gael majority to creep into power. If we could somehow manage to have Fine Gael in charge of the economy and health, and have Labour pushing for their referendum on a new constitution ect. then I would be happy out.
But that cannot happen with a Fine Gael majority. We need a Socailly Liberal, and Right Wing Economic government which Labour & Fine Gael is the best at delivering right now.


This is what the death of the PDs has done to me. The Flying Spaghetti Monster watch over us all.

steelcityblues

No libertarian would cast a firstpref for the high taxes, union backed, pro bailout deal party that is Labour.

You are a social democrat.

yosser hughes

The Labour party will protect public servants,be weak on welfare and you will pick up the tab. Vote wishy washy if you like.

Dr. Baltar

steelcityblues wrote: »

No libertarian would cast a firstpref for the high taxes, union backed, pro bailout deal party that is Labour.

You are a social democrat.

I cannot allow a Fine Gael majority to creep into power. If we could somehow manage to have Fine Gael in charge of the economy and health, and have Labour pushing for their referendum on a new constitution ect. then I would be happy

No libertarian would cast a first preference for a Catholic Ireland, anti civil rights party that is Fine Gael.

steelcityblues

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

No libertarian would cast a first preference for a Catholic Ireland, anti civil rights party that is Fine Gael.

I half sympathise with you, but Labour with what i've outlined are further away from being libertarian though.

Unless there is a Shane Ross/PaulSomerville type in your consttuency, then there is no real choice for a voter with that philosophy this time around.

Dr. Baltar

steelcityblues wrote: »

I half sympathise with you, but Labour with what i've outlined are further away from being libertarian though.

Unless there is a Shane Ross/PaulSomerville type in your consttuency, then there is no real choice for a voter with that philosophy this time around.

Like I said, my vote would be closest to the now extinct PDs. A FG majority would be too Socially Conservative for my like. The only alternative government to a FG majority is a FG/Lab government.
If said government were to have FG in charge of Finances, and Lab in charge of social issues, then you're talking a lot closer to the Progressive Democrats than a FG majority.

I will be a Labour voter, but a reluctant one.

yosser hughes

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

No libertarian would cast a first preference for a Catholic Ireland, anti civil rights party that is Fine Gael.

Eh? You don't know what you're talking about. You better vote labour alright.
By the way,look up who brought in divorce to this country.

bmaxi

yosser hughes wrote: »

Eh? You don't know what you're talking about. You better vote labour alright.
By the way,look up who brought in divorce to this country.

From what I remember Alan Shatter was one of the prime movers in the divorce cause. Hardly representative of Catholic Ireland.
I think I too shall be a Labour voter, I'm old enough to remember the policies of Richie Ryan & Co. I don't see the preoccupation with fiscal rectitude as the panacea for all our ills. While it's all very laudable to honour our debts, there is a duty to our country and the debt we owe to it.

Liam Byrne

steelcityblues wrote: »

Unless there is a Shane Ross/PaulSomerville type in your consttuency, then there is no real choice for a voter with that philosophy this time around.

Is Shane Ross really worth a vote, though ? I was 100% behind him - to the point of being pissed off that he wasn't in my constituency - but apparently he's also been involved in abusing expenses, sending out letters in Seanad envelopes.

That was when my last bastion of ethics disintegrated before my eyes.

Indigo Sunrise

I have somewhat similar views to you, although the economy is more important for me so I'm voting FG.

I would like to see a new liberal party. It's annoying having to choose between social liberalism and economic liberalism. I want both.

Spacedog

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Is Shane Ross really worth a vote, though ? I was 100% behind him - to the point of being pissed off that he wasn't in my constituency - but apparently he's also been involved in abusing expenses, sending out letters in Seanad envelopes.

That was when my last bastion of ethics disintegrated before my eyes.

Stationary theft is the worst kind of corruption.

thetonynator

Spacedog wrote: »

Stationary theft is the worst kind of corruption.

Abusing your seanad position/ dail position that it . . .up there with false expenses claims.

meglome

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Is Shane Ross really worth a vote, though ? I was 100% behind him - to the point of being pissed off that he wasn't in my constituency - but apparently he's also been involved in abusing expenses, sending out letters in Seanad envelopes.

That was when my last bastion of ethics disintegrated before my eyes.

I don't expect politicians to be perfect, I expect them to be... well... human. Shane Ross to me is one of the only people who called things like they were for years and was castigated for it. So no he's not perfect but he's head and shoulders over most of them. Given the chance I'd vote for him in a second. My local FG guy isn't bad so he'll have to do.

meglome

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

No libertarian would cast a first preference for a Catholic Ireland, anti civil rights party that is Fine Gael.

Oh I'm a libertarian (depending on the day) and I'm voting FG as the best hope we have. I can't in good conscience vote Labour (in this election, have previously) so the best/least worst option is FG.

Monty Burnz

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

6. Fine Gael - With the death of the Progressive Democrats, Fine Gael's economic policies became the closest to my own. However, my politics cannot, will not, allow me to vote for a party that is as socially conservative as Fine Gael. I care not for Catholic Ireland, I have no time for "Family Values" and I certainly cannot support a party that is not for same sex marriage. Fine Gael strike me as a party that like Fianna Fáil would have brought in a blasphemy law and would continue this ridiculous non separation of church and state that we still have in this country.

This idea of a socially conservative FG is nonsense to be honest, and I don't know where it comes from. These were the guys who started dismantling the church's control of social policy by holding and supporting the divorce referendum.

Lets not pretend that these guys are the Taleban or something.

OP, I could have written your post myself. I'm also (very) reluctantly voting Labour this time round, for exactly the reasons you've given. FG are far too conservative socially for my liking.

Monty Burnz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This idea of a socially conservative FG is nonsense to be honest, and I don't know where it comes from. These were the guys who started dismantling the church's control of social policy by holding and supporting the divorce referendum.

Lets not pretend that these guys are the Taleban or something.

Maybe not, but they are terribly conservative on the following issues:

They won't legislate for the X case or the recent ECHR ruling.
They're happy to treat same sex couples as second class citizens.
Restrictive stance on stem cell research.
They want to reverse the stag hunting ban.

I'm sure many people agree with them, but I just think there's nothing progressive about them at all.

ilovesleep

Im voting labour. The labour canditate in my consistency, according to boards.ie has worked as a banker in germany for a few years (must double check that). He would be very suitable for a job.

I know some people would argue that labour is in bed with unions. Our FF government has sold us into debt slavery. I think unions will be needed more than ever before or employers will be exploiting people. People will wake up in a few years time and think how did it come to working 20hrs a day, with a 5 minute break for a slice of bread and water. The rats in the dumps will be treated better than us!

Also labour is the only party offering debt restructuring. from my understanding its a fancy name for a default. they will probably default on some payments. Ireland will not be able to come from this mess without a default of some kind.

Lockstep

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This idea of a socially conservative FG is nonsense to be honest, and I don't know where it comes from. These were the guys who started dismantling the church's control of social policy by holding and supporting the divorce referendum.

Lets not pretend that these guys are the Taleban or something.

They're also a party who oppose same sex marriage.

upmeath

steelcityblues wrote: »

No libertarian would cast a firstpref for the high taxes, union backed, pro bailout deal party that is Labour.

You are a social democrat.

Your definition of libertarianism is one stuck far far across the Atlantic, not with Noam Chomsky or the Free State Movement, but with Sarah Palin.
I'm a social (or left) libertarian, I believe in smaller government and less state interference in personal lives and communal issues, but I also believe that safeguards are required to protect society's vulnerable, and what little tax is collected should provide for them, as well as essential services. Some sense of egalitarianism must prevail in any culture that seeks to flourish, but for the individual to flourish there have to be definite thresholds between state, society and individual liberties.

steelcityblues

The philosophy you outline is egalitarianism, which is quite different and more interventionist than libertarianism.

That is what Noam Chomsky is too, as opposed to the late Murray Rothbard who certainly lived by the libertarian code.

CiaranMT

Will also be voting Labour to change things in Clare. Michael McNamara is a good candidate to have among the mire of your typical FFers and the inevitable majority of FG.

Chucky the tree

Flying Fox wrote: »

Maybe not, but they are terribly conservative on the following issues:

They won't legislate for the X case or the recent ECHR ruling.
They're happy to treat same sex couples as second class citizens.
Restrictive stance on stem cell research.
They want to reverse the stag hunting ban.

I'm sure many people agree with them, but I just think there's nothing progressive about them at all.

How is that socially conservative? They are allowing people the chance to par-take in a past time they enjoy, is that not the kind of thing liberals want to see more of in society, Freedom of choice?

Dr. Baltar

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How is that socially conservative? They are allowing people the chance to par-take in a past time they enjoy, is that not the kind of thing liberals want to see more of in society, Freedom of choice?

Agreed, whether you agree or disagree with hunting, someone who is a true liberal would be pro-choice on the matter rather than dictate how others (in this case hunters) live their lives.


@Indigo Sunrise - Check out the Liberal Front. Brand new political party after been set up and I agree with 100% of their policies.

yosser hughes

bmaxi wrote: »

From what I remember Alan Shatter was one of the prime movers in the divorce cause. Hardly representative of Catholic Ireland.
I think I too shall be a Labour voter, I'm old enough to remember the policies of Richie Ryan & Co. I don't see the preoccupation with fiscal rectitude as the panacea for all our ills. While it's all very laudable to honour our debts, there is a duty to our country and the debt we owe to it.

Correct,it was Alan Shatter and in fact he has got through a mountain of legislation in relation to family law. This socially conservative tag on FG is absolute nonsense.
Labour will do nothing about welfare abuse, they will not touch public servants who seem to think they have been hurt enough. Everyone lese will pay for it.
Richie Ryan and his policies were also necessary because such is the voting pattern in this country,people vote FF untill they ruin the country and FG have to attempt to clean up the mess. It's the same this time only a lot worse. Soon people will forget who caused this and vote FF in the next election.
Voting Labour will not help this country.