Please, give me a good reason to NOT spoil my vote this Friday

Misty Chaos

Hey there,

As it stands, I am going to be spoiling my vote this Friday. I'm a young person ( 24 ) and like so many others, I'm disillusioned by what has happened to the country and despise FF for what they have done over the last 14 years ( not just how they handled the recession but thats besides the point ) but at the same time, I honestly can see a real viable alternative to FF at all.

FG have shown they have no spine and have a joke of a leader who wouldn't join a TV3 debate because he couldn't see eye to eye with the person moderating it! Then there was the time where he survived a motion of no confidence, even though it would of being better that he didn't.

Labour will pander the overly powerful Unions and make an already big mess even bigger. The unions need to be shot down and taught a lesson, not bulked up even more!

I don't really trust Sinn Féin and don't feel any independents will make an impact.

These views probably sum up how most people my age feel going into this election and don't know who or what to vote for. I'd love to vote for someone but I honestly feel that no one deserves my vote.

I'm bit uneasy about posting my honest opinions here because the last few times I've posted in the politics forum, I've gotten ripped to shreds over my views but I'm going to anyway because I want to make the most of my vote, even if I do end up spoiling it after all.

liveline

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Hey there,

As it stands, I am going to be spoiling my vote this Friday. I'm a young person ( 24 ) and like so many others, I'm disillusioned by what has happened to the country and despise FF for what they have done over the last 14 years ( not just how they handled the recession but thats besides the point ) but at the same time, I honestly can see a real viable alternative to FF at all.

FG have shown they have no spine and have a joke of a leader who wouldn't join a TV3 debate because he couldn't see eye to eye with the person moderating it! Then there was the time where he survived a motion of no confidence, even though it would of being better that he didn't.

Labour will pander the overly powerful Unions and make an already big mess even bigger. The unions need to be shot down and taught a lesson, not bulked up even more!

I don't really trust Sinn Féin and don't feel any independents will make an impact.

These views probably sum up how most people my age feel going into this election and don't know who or what to vote for. I'd love to vote for someone but I honestly feel that no one deserves my vote.

I'm bit uneasy about posting my honest opinions here because the last few times I've posted in the politics forum, I've gotten ripped to shreds over my views but I'm going to anyway because I want to make the most of my vote, even if I do end up spoiling it after all.

All I can say is that you should look at each individual candidate in your constituency and each party and decide which one you think is the best of a bad lot. Its a terrible situation to be in, but that's where we find ourselves. Spoiling your vote is your right. But the country is screwed beyond belief. If you think that someone or some party has some sort of half decent policies to help even keep Ireland afloat, then vote for them. Its better to try making things better, than opting out completely.

Ray Burkes Pension

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Hey there,

As it stands, I am going to be spoiling my vote this Friday. I'm a young person ( 24 ) and like so many others, I'm disillusioned by what has happened to the country and despise FF for what they have done over the last 14 years ( not just how they handled the recession but thats besides the point ) but at the same time, I honestly can see a real viable alternative to FF at all.

FG have shown they have no spine and have a joke of a leader who wouldn't join a TV3 debate because he couldn't see eye to eye with the person moderating it! Then there was the time where he survived a motion of no confidence, even though it would of being better that he didn't.

Labour will pander the overly powerful Unions and make an already big mess even bigger. The unions need to be shot down and taught a lesson, not bulked up even more!

I don't really trust Sinn Féin and don't feel any independents will make an impact.

These views probably sum up how most people my age feel going into this election and don't know who or what to vote for. I'd love to vote for someone but I honestly feel that no one deserves my vote.

I'm bit uneasy about posting my honest opinions here because the last few times I've posted in the politics forum, I've gotten ripped to shreds over my views but I'm going to anyway because I want to make the most of my vote, even if I do end up spoiling it after all.

Ignore all the media spin. Read through all the parties policy documents online. There has to be something in there in one of them that appeals to you.

Soldie

What do you hope to achieve by spoiling your vote? The only person who will see the spoiled vote is the person counting the ballots; the candidates themselves won't see it, so you're just shooting yourself in the foot. If none of the candidates in your constituency appeal to you, think of it in terms of who you think is the best of a bad bunch, instead.

Sully

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Hey there,

As it stands, I am going to be spoiling my vote this Friday. I'm a young person ( 24 ) and like so many others, I'm disillusioned by what has happened to the country and despise FF for what they have done over the last 14 years ( not just how they handled the recession but thats besides the point ) but at the same time, I honestly can see a real viable alternative to FF at all.

FG have shown they have no spine and have a joke of a leader who wouldn't join a TV3 debate because he couldn't see eye to eye with the person moderating it! Then there was the time where he survived a motion of no confidence, even though it would of being better that he didn't.

Labour will pander the overly powerful Unions and make an already big mess even bigger. The unions need to be shot down and taught a lesson, not bulked up even more!

I don't really trust Sinn Féin and don't feel any independents will make an impact.

These views probably sum up how most people my age feel going into this election and don't know who or what to vote for. I'd love to vote for someone but I honestly feel that no one deserves my vote.

I'm bit uneasy about posting my honest opinions here because the last few times I've posted in the politics forum, I've gotten ripped to shreds over my views but I'm going to anyway because I want to make the most of my vote, even if I do end up spoiling it after all.

Firstly, spoiling your vote isn't having a say in any shape or form. Your better of staying at home, and event thats pointless. Why? Because we need change. We have options and we need to pick SOMEONE even if you don't think they are great.

Secondly, the best approach is to look at the party POLICIES and decide which party you think has the best plan to get Ireland out of this mess. Look beyond leaders personality. Its not the XFactor or Personality Factor. Remember Bertie Ahern? Don't we all. Anyway, its not about the leader. Its about the plan and the team. If a party has a fairly decent proposal compared to the other shower - vote for them.

Finally, Just please, please PLEASE vote and vote for someone YOU think based on their plan will get us out of this mess. For my sake, for your sake, and for everyones sake its important every single one of us get out their on polling day and Vote in this general election. Make an informed choice - its not that hard.

You need to learn about politics outside of the media and spin. Even this forum is full of spin. Look at the websites, review the policies, review the manifestos. Decide on that.

Manifestos of the main parties::

Fine Gael
http://www.finegael.ie/upload/docs/Manifesto.pdf

Fianna Fail
http://election.fiannafail.ie/pages/read-the-plan (I laugh at the "Real Plan. Better Future slogan. WTF was the old plan and intended future then?!)

Sinn Fein
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/20087

Green Party
http://vote.greenparty.ie/manifesto

Labour Party
http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_election_manifesto_2011.pdf

Zamboni

Sully wrote: »

You need to learn about politics outside of the media and spin. Even this forum is full of spin. Look at the websites, review the policies, review the manifestos. Decide on that.

You suggest that the OP should learn for themself and make their own decision and then you go an try to influence the decision by throwing in two random digs at FF.
What a joke of a post :pac:

A spoilt vote on Friday = a vote for Fine Gael

johno2

Zamboni wrote: »

You suggest that the OP should learn for themself and make their own decision and then you go an try to influence the decision by throwing in two random digs at FF.
What a joke of a post :pac:

He is entitled to express his opinions in his post. His advice and the information he linked to was much more constructive and useful than your contribution.

BTW FF are running scared and they should be. Bertie Ahern and Brian Clowen are too afraid to even stand for election again. The icing on the cake would be if Micheal Martin, Mary Coughlan, the spawn of CJ Haughey and the Lenihan gang lost their seats too.
And maybe follow that up with dragging the lot of them into the courts and trying them for treason.
You won't get very far trying to apologise for them or defend them.

johno

Gael

1. Virtually no one (if anyone) will know that you were protesting by spoiling it. You'll just appear as a statistic along with the idiots who spoilt their vote because they didn't know how to fill the ballot paper in properly. That'd be fairly pathetic in fairness.

2. It's quite a lazy form of protest, to be honest. Stribbling "F*ck you all!" on your ballot doesn't take any brain power or real effort. Sitting down and properly reading/analysing manifestos to understand the real nature of what political groupings stand for does take effort, but will give you a proper understanding to help make a decent and informed judgement. Based on your above post, you seems to be judging the parties on a very shallow basis, based on prejudices and preconceptions as much as any study of their policies. Get informed and you can make the right choice. Spoiling your vote is just a cop-out.

poker head

dont spoil youre vote.
just vote with youre head.
im in the same boat brother dont know what to do.
give you local independent a vote,i am
but not my no1 vote.still have lots to reading yet before i make my mind up

MaceFace

Spoiling your vote is a valid way to express your views, so do spoil your vote if you feel so inclined.
Remember, your vote is your choice and you can cast it in whatever way you want, even if you choose not to cast it.

A spoiled vote says that you were concerned enough to travel to your vote center and express the view that none of the candidates are good enough.

After the election, studies will be done on how we voted and a large number of spoiled votes will make it clear that the public want something different than what is aleady there.

Not voting will just say you couldn't be bothered, or weren't able, to vote. That will change nothing.

A vote for a candidate will say you back that candidate and what they stand for.

liamog

All a spoilt vote says is that you weren't able to fill in a ballot paper properly. As others say as a form protest it is very weak. Nobody reads the spoilt vote it is just discarded.

dabestman1

Don't spoil your vote as this is pointless.
Vote for the party that suits you,

1. If you want to be unemployed for a long time: vote FF
2. If you want high indirect taxes: vote FG
3. If you want real change: Vote SF or Labour

FreeCheese4All

All the parties have policies I agree with and policies I don't. By giving a party member my vote I'm saying it's ok to go ahead and implement the policies I don't agree with. Except it's not ok as I don't want those policies implemented.

The independents are the same.

So what do I do here? Vote for a candidate(s) for the sake of it and have them try to implement policies I don't agree with??

MaceFace

liamog wrote: »

All a spoilt vote says is that you weren't able to fill in a ballot paper properly. As others say as a form protest it is very weak. Nobody reads the spoilt vote it is just discarded.

Of course the don't but a spoilt vote is not neccessarily writing a message on it. A quick Big X through the page will suffice.

To say it is irrelevant is so wrong.
The number of spoiled votes, just like the voter turnout gives a very good indication of the mood of the voters.
A low turnout says people are disinfrancised with politics and a large turnout says people are engaged.
A low to average number of spoiled votes is to be expected, but a much larger number than normal says that there are a large number of people out there that voted for "none of the above".

A large vote for none of the above may very well see some new groups emerge swayed by the dissatisfaction with mainstream politics.

How else do you vote for None of the above?

Pal

Spoil your vote if you want.

It makes my vote more valuable and I value it.

Zamboni

johno2 wrote: »

He is entitled to express his opinions in his post. His advice and the information he linked to was much more constructive and useful than your contribution.

BTW FF are running scared and they should be. Bertie Ahern and Brian Clowen are too afraid to even stand for election again. The icing on the cake would be if Micheal Martin, Mary Coughlan, the spawn of CJ Haughey and the Lenihan gang lost their seats too.
And maybe follow that up with dragging the lot of them into the courts and trying them for treason.
You won't get very far trying to apologise for them or defend them.

johno

You have mistakenly assumed I am a FF supporter.
Obviously your hatred for FF is so overwhelming it is clouding your judgment.
Sully's post lost its constructiveness the moment he sullied it with his bias.
Which party he chose to deride was irrelevant.

LuckyMe63

Just vote for 1 person - the person least likely to get in in your area.
Then after the 1st count when the candidate has been eliminated, your vote won't matter.
So this way, you've voted but it's insignificant.

It's what I'm thinking of doing

problemchimp

Vote for the independent least likely to suceed and help him/her save the deposit.

MaceFace

LuckyMe63 wrote: »

Just vote for 1 person - the person least likely to get in in your area.
Then after the 1st count when the candidate has been eliminated, your vote won't matter.
So this way, you've voted but it's insignificant.

It's what I'm thinking of doing

And if enough people do this the person gets elected :rolleyes:

Zubeneschamali

Why go to the bother of spoiling your vote? If you don't want to vote for anyone, you can stay at home, and leave the voting to people who care.

telekon

...to punish FF for what they've done and make them accountable in your own personal way.

It seems to be the only way we have of making them accountable for what they've done to us...

MaceFace

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Why go to the bother of spoiling your vote? If you don't want to vote for anyone, you can stay at home, and leave the voting to people who care.

So, the only people who care are those that vote for one of the candidates?

How do you vote for none of the above?

Zubeneschamali

MaceFace wrote: »

How do you vote for none of the above?

Don't cast a vote for any of the above.

MaceFace

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Don't cast a vote for any of the above.

And you get lost in the large number of people who genuinely don't care who gets elected.
A turnout of 60% and spoiled vote count of 2% tells a very different story than a turnout of 68% and a spoiled vote count of 10%.

To actually go out of your way to vote shows you care, no matter what you do with your actual vote.

I believe the number of spoiled votes in a normal GE is 1-2%. If this election has a spoiled vote of say 10%, it indicates that there are a huge number of people in this country who are not happy with any of the candidates and want something different.
That tells the existing parties that 10% of the electorate want something different than you are offering and these people are active voters so can be swayed in the way they vote. If you don't go after these people, someone else will.

emptybladder

Nobody cares about spoiled ballot papers TBH.

Do you think the local council staff in the count centres will pass any remark whatsoever when they see your spoiled vote? Will they fcuk.

It will simply become a statistic. It's not considered a form of protest by right-thinking people (no offence to OP).

It doesn't reflect the mood of the nation. Same way it hasn't done at every other local and general election.

Read the manifesto of each candidate again. Ring them, tweet them, email them if you have a specific query.

A spoiled vote is a wasted right.

Aishae

the way i feel about it - what would be the point? NO ONE is gonna swoop in to 'save' us if a huge portion of the electorate spoil their vote (same as abstaining)
its already clear to many politicians what the mood of the electorate is and that they need to pull their socks up. the important thing for us is to keep reminding them that we wont sit back and take the same level of cr^p as before - by voting. no one is perfect - im the same, no party has the perfect manifesto i'd ideally want.
so use your vote well - research, dont just rely on the news because the news and media is always biased towards the drama. we need a clearer picture of the candidates than that.

analucija

Vote for the best of a bad bunch. Less people vote more influence single vote has. And that gives more power to party diehards.

You can also spoil your vote or not vote at all and then complain how stupid people elected XY again. That really is a true protest.

a voice in mayo

Misty Chaos wrote: »

Hey there,

As it stands, I am going to be spoiling my vote this Friday. I'm a young person ( 24 ) and like so many others, I'm disillusioned by what has happened to the country and despise FF for what they have done over the last 14 years ( not just how they handled the recession but thats besides the point ) but at the same time, I honestly can see a real viable alternative to FF at all.

FG have shown they have no spine and have a joke of a leader who wouldn't join a TV3 debate because he couldn't see eye to eye with the person moderating it! Then there was the time where he survived a motion of no confidence, even though it would of being better that he didn't.

Labour will pander the overly powerful Unions and make an already big mess even bigger. The unions need to be shot down and taught a lesson, not bulked up even more!

I don't really trust Sinn Féin and don't feel any independents will make an impact.

These views probably sum up how most people my age feel going into this election and don't know who or what to vote for. I'd love to vote for someone but I honestly feel that no one deserves my vote.

I'm bit uneasy about posting my honest opinions here because the last few times I've posted in the politics forum, I've gotten ripped to shreds over my views but I'm going to anyway because I want to make the most of my vote, even if I do end up spoiling it after all.

Hi there, my heart actually goes out to you. And even though it pains me to say it I quite agree with you, but common sense dictates to me that I MUST vote in order to have my say. You have as much right to vote as the next person, and that must not be thrown away lightly. By voting, even if it’s only the best of a bad lot, you have chosen to have your say and it also entitles you to have your voice heard. By not voting, you give up your rights to speak out, as you are showing by not voting /vote spoiling that you are not prepared to use your vote wisely.

I wish I could give you some reassurance that your vote for will actually help the situation but unfortunately like us all only time will tell. I will just leave you with this, please, PLEASE think carefully about your precious vote as it will be some time again before you get another one, so Please use is wisely. If you still cannot decide come Friday then vote by elimination. Good luck and may God Bless us all!

MaceFace

If people looked beyond the immediate election and actually took a bigger picture view, they will clearly see that a large number of spoilt votes will clearly inform us that there are a large number of people who took the time to go down to the election center and cast their vote (even if it is not valid).

What does that tell us?
If only 1% do it, it tells us nothing as that is usual, but if 10% does it, it tells us that there are 10% who thought none of the candidates deserved our vote, and maybe next time a party will emerge that will directly address this large number of voters concerns. That is a very large number of people and represent 7-12 seats. That is significant for any party.

So, yes, in terms of this election, a spoilt vote does nothing, but post election, it will mean a lot more.

Cartman78

Apart from hardcore party followers/members/"my father voted for Party X, so they've got my vote too" types, I think everyone in the country is probably in the same boat as the OP.

Something inside me died when I saw the candidate list in my own constituency...the same old list of middle-aged Councillors, cute hoors, pothole fillers, slieveens etc. My initial feeling was that any combination of preferences will have zero impact on the future of the country.

I think that, in this election in particular, people were willing to vote and bring in real change but the options simply aren't there in most constituencies. The failed Democracy Now project would have been interesting; a more radical Labour party would have been interesting too perhaps.

But, having said all that, I will be making an effort to make an educated and informed vote on Friday. I have to believe that my vote will make a difference (however small) somewhere along the line

edanto

A spoiled vote is an embarassement to yourself.

People are being shot in Libya and deained in Bahrain for the chance to choose their government democratically and spoiling a vote is an insult to their struggle and the fight of our founders for our right to self determination.

Your first post makes you sound like an Indo faithful, sticking inside the narrow frames of their worldview. Weak Kenny, Gilmore for Unions and dangerous Sinn Fein. Whereas in fact, Bertie and FF did more to increase the power of unions, to the detriment of the citizenry than any Gimore government ever would.

The other persistent myth in the Indo worldview is that 'they are all the same' and 'politicians are gombeen men'. Well, they're not all the same, and if you get up from the computer and go to a few meetings (try a few different parties and Independents), you'll soon see that they are not all the same and that you can actually do something to change the things that you are unhappy about.

People not bothering to get involved in politics is what got us into this mess. Be proud of your responsibilities as a citizen, and decide who to vote for.

If you want to get more involved, and you really find a candidate/party that you believe in, go out canvassing this week. I'm going out tonight to canvass for this fella http://stephendonnelly.ie/ He's trained in how to negotiate with the IMF ffs. They're all the same, me ar$e

Get up off your behind and do something, and have some pride in yourself.

a voice in mayo

MaceFace wrote: »

If people looked beyond the immediate election and actually took a bigger picture view, they will clearly see that a large number of spoilt votes will clearly inform us that there are a large number of people who took the time to go down to the election center and cast their vote (even if it is not valid).

What does that tell us?
If only 1% do it, it tells us nothing as that is usual, but if 10% does it, it tells us that there are 10% who thought none of the candidates deserved our vote, and maybe next time a party will emerge that will directly address this large number of voters concerns. That is a very large number of people and represent 7-12 seats. That is significant for any party.

So, yes, in terms of this election, a spoilt vote does nothing, but post election, it will mean a lot more.

I'm afraid I dont think it will bother them (the elected) in the least, as they'll have the power by then. I think it would need to be a far bigger percentage to make any inpact. I still think that its not spoilt votes that will get the attention its peaceful protests and letting our voices be heard on the streets, not on polictial forams or social network sites. We (THE PEOPLE) need to stand shoulder to shoulder and shout out that NO, WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS FAILURE OF A BUREAUCRACY AND WE DON'T WANT THIS ANYMORE!

OCleirigh

Just look to the countries in Turmoil in North Africa, bet they wish they could vote. Don't be a moron, vote for your candidate of choice. If you do not wish to erxercise the vote then dont!! But spoiling it make you worse than the Bankers!!!

steve9859

MaceFace wrote: »

If people looked beyond the immediate election and actually took a bigger picture view, they will clearly see that a large number of spoilt votes will clearly inform us that there are a large number of people who took the time to go down to the election center and cast their vote (even if it is not valid).

What does that tell us?
If only 1% do it, it tells us nothing as that is usual, but if 10% does it, it tells us that there are 10% who thought none of the candidates deserved our vote, and maybe next time a party will emerge that will directly address this large number of voters concerns. That is a very large number of people and represent 7-12 seats. That is significant for any party.

So, yes, in terms of this election, a spoilt vote does nothing, but post election, it will mean a lot more.

Thats ridiculous. Even if 10% of spoiled ballots tells the winning party/coalition that a large portion of people think the system is wrong, what will they care? They are in power and can just ignore it.

However, if 10% of people voted for People before Profit or a group like that, then it might give them a few seats and force the winning party to take notice, and deal with them.

No-one will care in the long run about spoiled votes, other than it being an 'interesting aside' in a Sunday paper. And spoiling your vote, as others have said, is disgraceful in an era where millions of people around the world are desperate for a vote. Anyone who spoils their vote on purpose should be ashamed of themselves, and in my opinion forfeits their right to engage in political discourse on this board or other forums.

MazG

a voice in mayo wrote: »

I'm afraid I dont think it will bother them (the elected) in the least, as they'll have the power by then.

Exactly. Whichever party or parties are elected into government will (understandably) be of the opinion that they have been given a mandate by the electorate to impliment the policies outlined in their manifesto and will go ahead with their programme. They will NOT be worrying about the spoilt vote count.

Opposition parties might look at a high spoilt vote percentage and wonder to themselves 'how can we get a cut of that next time round'. Or they might just spend the next 5 years in opposition disagreeing with everything the government does for form's sake.

I wouldn't be keen to spoil my vote on the off chance that it might inspire some opposition party or heretofore unformed party to come up with some (undefined) 'alternative'.

Misty Chaos

Just thought I'd come back and thank everyone for their opinions so far, some of the stuff I've read isn't wanted to hear but is what I needed to hear though. I can at least say I was concerned enough to actually make my original post.

I'll definitely be looking at the manifestos and will make up my own mind after that and I really should learn to ignore the media spin about politics.

edanto

Fair play to ya, good luck with the decison. I bet ya that voting for someone will feel 10 times better than spoiling it!

MaceFace

edanto wrote: »

A spoiled vote is an embarassement to yourself.

People are being shot in Libya and deained in Bahrain for the chance to choose their government democratically and spoiling a vote is an insult to their struggle and the fight of our founders for our right to self determination.

Your first post makes you sound like an Indo faithful, sticking inside the narrow frames of their worldview. Weak Kenny, Gilmore for Unions and dangerous Sinn Fein. Whereas in fact, Bertie and FF did more to increase the power of unions, to the detriment of the citizenry than any Gimore government ever would.

The other persistent myth in the Indo worldview is that 'they are all the same' and 'politicians are gombeen men'. Well, they're not all the same, and if you get up from the computer and go to a few meetings (try a few different parties and Independents), you'll soon see that they are not all the same and that you can actually do something to change the things that you are unhappy about.

People not bothering to get involved in politics is what got us into this mess. Be proud of your responsibilities as a citizen, and decide who to vote for.

If you want to get more involved, and you really find a candidate/party that you believe in, go out canvassing this week. I'm going out tonight to canvass for this fella http://stephendonnelly.ie/ He's trained in how to negotiate with the IMF ffs. They're all the same, me ar$e

Get up off your behind and do something, and have some pride in yourself.

My Lord, aren't you just great.
I know a number of people who are heavily involved in politics and they are the people who will vote with the party no matter what they do.
I have canvassed in the past and am in no way aligned to any party. I vote on the issues every time. I voted FF and Greens in the last election and in no way did I expect it to turn out like it did. I knew house prices were overvalued and due a fall, but I didn't expect the banks to be insolvent and the government to give them an unlimited bailout.
With that lot, no matter how much you read and understood, you would not be in any way better off.
BTW: Stephen Donnelly does appear to be a very good candidate, but you have to question the impact any independent will have (apart from the loonies who just want a bridge and hospital).

a voice in mayo wrote: »

I'm afraid I dont think it will bother them (the elected) in the least, as they'll have the power by then. I think it would need to be a far bigger percentage to make any inpact. I still think that its not spoilt votes that will get the attention its peaceful protests and letting our voices be heard on the streets, not on polictial forams or social network sites. We (THE PEOPLE) need to stand shoulder to shoulder and shout out that NO, WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS FAILURE OF A BUREAUCRACY AND WE DON'T WANT THIS ANYMORE!

To have an immediate impact, you are correct, but if we as a people were to express our dissatisfaction with all the candidates, other would pop up. It happens in every other country.

OCleirigh wrote: »

Just look to the countries in Turmoil in North Africa, bet they wish they could vote. Don't be a moron, vote for your candidate of choice. If you do not wish to erxercise the vote then dont!! But spoiling it make you worse than the Bankers!!!

Huh?

steve9859 wrote: »

Thats ridiculous. Even if 10% of spoiled ballots tells the winning party/coalition that a large portion of people think the system is wrong, what will they care? They are in power and can just ignore it.

However, if 10% of people voted for People before Profit or a group like that, then it might give them a few seats and force the winning party to take notice, and deal with them.

No-one will care in the long run about spoiled votes, other than it being an 'interesting aside' in a Sunday paper. And spoiling your vote, as others have said, is disgraceful in an era where millions of people around the world are desperate for a vote. Anyone who spoils their vote on purpose should be ashamed of themselves, and in my opinion forfeits their right to engage in political discourse on this board or other forums.

Its amazing how little the majority know about politics. They think it is a group of 100 people who stand for a party, get elected and ignore everything for the next 5 years.
Politics is a full time profession, not just for the people who get elected, but for the many thousands who work behind the scenes on the issues.
Without these people, the parties would cease to exist.
A large number of spoilt votes will be explored by many people and papers etc will be written explaining the rational.
It would be foolish to think that any party would look at 10% of the electorate, see they are active voters, not aligned to any party, and simply ignore them.

As for voting for someone like People Before Profit - what does that say? Well, it says you support their policies. What if you don't? (I certainly don't).

MazG wrote: »

Exactly. Whichever party or parties are elected into government will (understandably) be of the opinion that they have been given a mandate by the electorate to impliment the policies outlined in their manifesto and will go ahead with their programme. They will NOT be worrying about the spoilt vote count.

Opposition parties might look at a high spoilt vote percentage and wonder to themselves 'how can we get a cut of that next time round'. Or they might just spend the next 5 years in opposition disagreeing with everything the government does for form's sake.

I wouldn't be keen to spoil my vote on the off chance that it might inspire some opposition party or heretofore unformed party to come up with some (undefined) 'alternative'.

Of course they will be looking at this. Politics is actually a science and many very intelligent people spend a lot of time strategising, trying to increase the vote count for future elections.

edanto wrote: »

Fair play to ya, good luck with the decison. I bet ya that voting for someone will feel 10 times better than spoiling it!

Maybe you will. Tell me though - would you feel better voting for someone you didn't like than spoiling your vote?


Say you want to vote for someone who is completely against the bailout of the banks but do not want to vote for someone who is going to cripple business or high earners. Who do you vote for?
If it was up to you lot, I would simply not vote, which lumps me in with the group of people who simply don't care enough to vote. I care just as much as anyone who will vote.
Why don't I have the right to vote and say I am in favour of none of them?

BTW: I am going to vote, and for a party, not the candidate, but I will defend anyone who chooses to express their vote as THEY see fit.

Interestingly enough, Matt Cooper is running a poll asking if spoiling your vote is better, worse, or the same as not voting:
http://www.todayfm.com/Shows/Weekdays/Matt-Cooper/Matt-Cooper-Blog.aspx

wow sierra

Not sure if someone else said this already but my advice is look at who you dislike the least. Nearly everyone is in the same boat - very few candidates/parties you would get excited about. But there must be at least one that really annoys you. Vote for some of the rest just to keep them out.

PS: There is also the "James Connolly died so we could vote for an Irish government...........", "look at all the countries where you cant vote" etc argument. I am sure someone else has said that too. It is the reason I always vote - I still havent decided who to vote for either.

the groutch

wow sierra wrote: »

PS: There is also the "James Connolly died so we could vote for an Irish government...........", "look at all the countries where you cant vote" etc argument. I am sure someone else has said that too. It is the reason I always vote - I still havent decided who to vote for either.

that is the only agrument we should ever need for voting

two wheels good

I've just read that Green Party policy is to have a "None of the above" option on the ballot paper. I like it.

failsafe

MaceFace wrote: »

BTW: Stephen Donnelly does appear to be a very good candidate, but you have to question the impact any independent will have (apart from the loonies who just want a bridge and hospital).

I don't quite see the difference - If a loony IND can have an impact getting the local roads fixed, why can't a decent IND have a similar effect doing something good for the country? (e.g. Ross, Donnelly, Somerville etc.)

Imagine a group of them in the position that the Greens were in just before the IMF came to town. The Greens could have opposed NAMA and left FF high and dry (but they didn't). Now imagine a group of 5-10 sound minded Independents in that position.

MaceFace

failsafe wrote: »

I don't quite see the difference - If a loony IND can have an impact getting the local roads fixed, why can't a decent IND have a similar effect doing something good for the country? (e.g. Ross, Donnelly, Somerville etc.)

Imagine a group of them in the position that the Greens were in just before the IMF came to town. The Greens could have opposed NAMA and left FF high and dry (but they didn't). Now imagine a group of 5-10 sound minded Independents in that position.

No government would ever go "into" colation with an Independent who had a precondition of something as big as dealing with the IMF in a particular way. Instead they can throw 10 or 20 million towards a hospital or school.
Better to "waste" 20m in South Kerry than risk a 87bn deal.

While many "independent" economists may think they have the answers, their advise can sometimes destroy a country (was it not a certain McWilliams that advised the government to introduce a guarantee for the banks?)

edanto

MaceFace wrote: »

While many "independent" economists may think they have the answers, their advise can sometimes destroy a country (was it not a certain McWilliams that advised the government to introduce a guarantee for the banks?)

No.

The chief executives of the banks were applying the most pressure, as detailed in Shane Ross' book The Bankers.

Yes, David McWilliams was consulted by Lenihan and he advised to go ahead with it while 40 leading academics wrote a letter to the Irish Times saying it was a foolish idea. Now what all that has to do with the original post about spoiling your vote I have no idea. Maybe you want to start a new thread about something on your mind?