What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

Son Of A Vidic

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rapist-struck-just-after-his-release-73403.html

This is the problem with Irish judicial sentencing, scum bags like this should not see the light of day again. Time to throw away the key on him I think, of course ensuring he is fed his own b@lls beforehand.

we'llallhavetea_old

allz i gotz was bosco looking forlorn

Chris P. Bacon

Sorry - the page you are looking for cannot be found

Edit : Now i get it

Cheap Thrills!

Yar, come on OP. I need me daily dose of outrage.

starbelgrade

Bosco was a fuckwit.

A ginger headed retard with a hand up his arse.

He should be locked up forever, the stripey shirted, brogue wearing prick.

Sergeant

starbelgrade wrote: »

Bosco was a fuckwit.

A ginger headed retard with a hand up his arse.

He should be locked up forever, the stripey shirted, brogue wearing prick.

Uafásach.

we'llallhavetea_old

starbelgrade wrote: »

Bosco was a fuckwit.

A ginger headed retard with a hand up his arse.

He should be locked up forever, the stripey shirted, brogue wearing prick.

:eek:

post reported :mad:

starbelgrade

Sergeant wrote: »

Uafásach.

U fa suck.

Sounds like a Chinese man telling Paul Gascoine that he's too fat & old to be playing football.

Topper Harley01

I dunno why, but that really made me laugh

Dangerous Man

I'm an unsympathetic fucker usually but I think in this case we should consider the fact that this guy has spent ALL of his adult life in jail before he was released. I would wonder how this affected his ability to function normally.

He still needs to be punished, of course, but this situation demands a deeper analysis I think.

pragmatic1

Hard labour is the way to go.

Bottle_of_Smoke

FAir play to the guys who rescued her.

Ov the topic of petty sentences - why don't we have consecutive sentencing here?

omahaid

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

FAir play to the guys who rescued her.

Ov the topic of petty sentences - why don't we have consecutive sentencing here?

Ya, I've never understood that either. If you beat and rape someone, and get convicted of one count of assault and one count of rape, why don't you get two consecutive sentences?

Feeona

There's a child in the school I work in, and I can well see him doing something like this in the future. He regularly starts fights in the playground, and shouts at teachers when they intervene. The principal and two male members of staff have brought his father in on several occasions to tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable. The father tells his son to use his fists if he ever has a problem. I can only imagine the reason he hasn't been suspended yet is because the father is crazy enough to drag the school through the courts for suspending his son. There's also the possibility that he physically threatened them.

Every once in a while, you see a child in the schoolyard, and you just know they'll be in trouble with the police within ten years. They live with the belief that society has wronged them (fuelled by their home life), and they lash out. They drain resources (HSE, schools, gardaí, social welfare) all with the belief that someone has to pay for their awful life. They regularly complain that nobody ever did anything for them, despite the fact that they get more attention than anyone else in the system. You'd feel sorry for the people who just stay quiet and put up with anything life throws at them. As they say, the louder you shout the more you get.

I can imagine that the guy in this case regularly caused trouble in school, and his old teachers weren't particularly surprised when he ended up in prison. Notwithstanding mental illness, I think that most of the time people who commit crimes have a huge sense of entitlement, and woe betide anyone who intervenes.

galwayrush

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Hard labour is the way to go.

No need to get political....:D

tails_naf

Feeona wrote: »

There's a child in the school I work in, and I can well see him doing something like this in the future. He regularly starts fights in the playground, and shouts at teachers when they intervene. The principal and two male members of staff have brought his father in on several occasions to tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable. The father tells his son to use his fists if he ever has a problem. I can only imagine the reason he hasn't been suspended yet is because the father is crazy enough to drag the school through the courts for suspending his son. There's also the possibility that he physically threatened them.

Every once in a while, you see a child in the schoolyard, and you just know they'll be in trouble with the police within ten years. They live with the belief that society has wronged them (fuelled by their home life), and they lash out. They drain resources (HSE, schools, gardaí, social welfare) all with the belief that someone has to pay for their awful life. They regularly complain that nobody ever did anything for them, despite the fact that they get more attention than anyone else in the system. You'd feel sorry for the people who just stay quiet and put up with anything life throws at them. As they say, the louder you shout the more you get.

I can imagine that the guy in this case regularly caused trouble in school, and his old teachers weren't particularly surprised when he ended up in prison. Notwithstanding mental illness, I think that most of the time people who commit crimes have a huge sense of entitlement, and woe betide anyone who intervenes.

IF your school has a policy on behaviour, and he violates this, then suspend him. Don't think a court case will see it differently. Just make parents sign up to the policy at the start of the year. Lots of places do it.

Don't just stand idly by and let this lad's father ruin him by getting ayway with it. Enforcing your behaviour policy will have a positive effect on everyone, so it's worth risking a court case (which you would win)

Feeona

tails_naf wrote: »

IF your school has a policy on behaviour, and he violates this, then suspend him. Don't think a court case will see it differently. Just make parents sign up to the policy at the start of the year. Lots of places do it.

That's what I think myself. But experienced staff who have been at the school for years are dealing with it so I think there must be some valid reason he hasn't been suspended. Other children have been suspended for less.

Badgermonkey

Feeona wrote: »

There's a child in the school I work in, and I can well see him doing something like this in the future. He regularly starts fights in the playground, and shouts at teachers when they intervene.

Classic behaviour of a future rapist right there.

squeakyduck

He should be left in solitary confinement for the rest of his life...what kind of ****ed up person rapes another...but at 16.....straight jacket and cushion room....

seafood dunleavy

.

starbelgrade

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

:eek:

post reported :mad:

Bit harsh that - the thread link was broken last night & all that came up from the link was a picture of Bosco.

Dudess

****ing hell, that's just an extremely dangerous man - seems like he should be locked up permanently, or at least constantly supervised, in order to protect others, whatever about punishment/rehabilitation/deterring him from reoffending (the last two seem like lost causes anyway).

Ev84

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

He should be castrated to prevent further sexual harm and have all his limbs amputated to prevent any further assault. simple as.... what harm could do he then. Piece of s**t doesn't deserve a life.

mconigol

Just goes to show how messed up the justice system is here. What moran of a judge thinks its a good idea to lock a teenager up for 15 years without thinking about what going to happen when he's released after missing some of the most formative years of his life?

While I'm all for tough punishments you can't just lock up an adolescent for over a decade and effectively throw away the key. Either lock him up for the rest of his natural life or ensure that he is going to be fit to rejoin society when the time comes. The prison system had him for 15 years are completely failed to make any impact. If that doesn't tell us that serious reform is needed then I don't know what does.

Oranage2

mconigol wrote: »

BLAH BLAH BLAH It's all the judges/prisons fault

Wrong!....there are psychos out there and they're responsible for their own actions - the best thing for them and us is that they're disposed of! Some crimes are so serious that we should bring back the death penalty.

Dudess

Ev84 wrote: »

He should be castrated to prevent further sexual harm and have all his limbs amputated to prevent any further assault.

So his depraved behaviour should be met with the state lowering itself to being depraved also?

Dudess

mconigol wrote: »

What moran of a judge

You were thinking of Judge Carroll Moran weren't ya? :pac:

480905

Ev84 wrote: »

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

He should be castrated to prevent further sexual harm and have all his limbs amputated to prevent any further assault. simple as.... what harm could do he then. Piece of s**t doesn't deserve a life.

Why aren't you Minister for Justice?? Hear Hear

Except all the bloody do gooders would argue that it is SOCIETY that is the problem!!! WE caused him to behave like that.... God bless his poor little cotton socks. WE made him rape those women and do all those bold things.....We should all hang our heads in shame and say sorry for making him do those things....

Dudess

Oranage2 wrote: »

Wrong!....there are psychos out there and they're responsible for their own actions - the best thing for them and us is that they're disposed of! Some crimes are so serious that we should bring back the death penalty.

He... didn't say that. Your summing up of his post in the quote isn't what he was saying either.

HarryPotter41

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I'm an unsympathetic fucker usually but I think in this case we should consider the fact that this guy has spent ALL of his adult life in jail before he was released. I would wonder how this affected his ability to function normally.

He still needs to be punished, of course, but this situation demands a deeper analysis I think.

In fairness, don't think he was functioning particularly normally before he went in, so doubt he was affected much by being inside.

mconigol

Dudess wrote: »

You were thinking of Judge Carroll Moran weren't ya? :pac:

Obviously

I wouldn't dream of making any disparaging remarks about the fine judges of this great state! I hope nobody misinterprets my post!

ART6

Dudess wrote: »

So his depraved behaviour should be met with the state lowering itself to being depraved also?

Of course not, but the state has a primary duty to protect the people and not just the criminals. To that end I feel that anyone who has been sentenced for deliberate and premeditated violent assault or rape should be given an open ended term. He/she should then only be released if it can be established with reasonable certainty that he/she is no longer a risk. In some cases that might be when they are simply too old to be able to re-offend.

If that's the case then so be it. Like the old saying -- "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

Dudess

480905 wrote: »

Why aren't you Minister for Justice?? Hear Hear

Lol - for advocating castration and limb removal. Even if the sh1tbag deserves to be punished, the state should show how it's more civilised than he is.

Except all the bloody do gooders would argue that it is SOCIETY that is the problem!!! WE caused him to behave like that.... God bless his poor little cotton socks. WE made him rape those women and do all those bold things.....We should all hang our heads in shame and say sorry for making him do those things....

No "the" do gooders wouldn't (presume by "do gooders" you mean people who actually put some thought into these issues) say such stuff. Nobody's going to try and shift responsibility from a depraved rapist, certainly not "do gooders" seeing as they tend not to be fans of violence. Those with a fetish for outrage though, do seem to be more partial to a bit of violence.

Nodin

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?.

It went out with Brehon law.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rapist-struck-just-after-his-release-73403.html

This is the problem with Irish judicial sentencing, scum bags like this should not see the light of day again. Time to throw away the key on him I think, of course ensuring he is fed his own b@lls beforehand.

Given the current wording of the law, thats all they could sentence him to. A more pertinent question is why somebody that fixated and dangerous isn't examined as a criminally insane individual, and kept in a secure facility.

480905

mconigol wrote: »

Just goes to show how messed up the justice system is here. What moran of a judge thinks its a good idea to lock a teenager up for 15 years without thinking about what going to happen when he's released after missing some of the most formative years of his life?

While I'm all for tough punishments you can't just lock up an adolescent for over a decade and effectively throw away the key. Either lock him up for the rest of his natural life or ensure that he is going to be fit to rejoin society when the time comes. The prison system had him for 15 years are completely failed to make any impact. If that doesn't tell us that serious reform is needed then I don't know what does.

The Prison system has facilities available to those who CHOOSE to do programmes that are in place for their rehabilitation. They can't be forced to take part because then there would be absolutely no benefit in the courses. The participants have to choose to take responsibility for their actions and be prepared to engage with counsellors. I would guess that this individual didn't think he had done anything wrong and didn't reckon he had anything to apologise for and therefore Why would he have to get counselling/help.

Dudess

ART6 wrote: »

Of course not, but the state has a primary duty to protect the people and not just the criminals. To that end I feel that anyone who has been sentenced for deliberate and premeditated violent assault or rape should be given an open ended term. He/she should then only be released if it can be established with reasonable certainty that he/she is no longer a risk. In some cases that might be when they are simply too old to be able to re-offend.

Well I fully agree with that for extreme cases like this, but I was referring to the castration/amputation stuff. I don't think anyone was calling for protection of criminals either.

mconigol

Oranage2 wrote: »

Wrong!....there are psychos out there and they're responsible for their own actions - the best thing for them and us is that they're disposed of! Some crimes are so serious that we should bring back the death penalty.

I never said he wasn't responsible for his own actions. Try reading my post before you make up stuff that I said. Also please don't quote a post by me and then change everything that was said.

Dudess wrote: »

He... didn't say that. Your summing up of his post in the quote isn't what he was saying either.

Cheers Dudess! Thankfully someone understood what I was saying.

Ev84

Ev84 wrote: »

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

He should be castrated to prevent further sexual harm and have all his limbs amputated to prevent any further assault. simple as.... what harm could do he then. Piece of s**t doesn't deserve a life.

Dudess wrote: »

So his depraved behaviour should be met with the state lowering itself to being depraved also?

Exactly. Had it been your sister/mother/aunt/cousin that had been attacked would you be so sympathetic towards this evil bastard? What i suggested would be mild compared to what i would do to him had he attacked someone i love so go direct your hippy bulls**t at someone else.

Besides what could he do without his legs only arse around

Chucky the tree

Dudess - you have some patience. I thought there was only so much hitting your head off a brick wall one person could take.

mconigol

480905 wrote: »

The Prison system has facilities available to those who CHOOSE to do programmes that are in place for their rehabilitation. They can't be forced to take part because then there would be absolutely no benefit in the courses. The participants have to choose to take responsibility for their actions and be prepared to engage with counsellors. I would guess that this individual didn't think he had done anything wrong and didn't reckon he had anything to apologise for and therefore Why would he have to get counselling/help.

Yeah that'a a major problem in my opinion. Whereas adults can make this decision in this case the system had this guy since he was a kid/teenager so I don't know if counselling/therapy etc...could be refused. He must have been effectively reared in a prison environment though which is not exactly going to do much for somebodies state of mind or attitude to society. There has to be some responsibility attributed to the people in charge. They had him for almost half his life but within 36 hours he's at it again.

480905

Dudess wrote: »

No "the" do gooders wouldn't (presume by "do gooders" you mean people who actually put some thought into these issues) say such stuff..

By Do Gooder, I mean those who form opinions on people who commit these crimes without actually knowing the person and thinking they have answers..Until you actually get to know these people ... THEN come and give opinions on how they are best rehabilitated/treated.

I am an advocate for anybody getting the help they require whilst in Prison. Facilities are there, however sparse , but they are available for those who seek it.

mconigol

480905 wrote: »

By Do Gooder, I mean those who form opinions on people who commit these crimes without actually knowing the person and thinking they have answers..Until you actually get to know these people ... THEN come and give opinions on how they are best rehabilitated/treated.

I am an advocate for anybody getting the help they require whilst in Prison. Facilities are there, however sparse , but they are available for those who seek it.

Do you know the person?

ART6

Dudess wrote: »

Well I fully agree with that for extreme cases like this, but I was referring to the castration/amputation stuff. I don't think anyone was calling for protection of criminals either.

I fully understood what you were saying and I agreed with you. The state doesn't have to be a savage because the criminal might be. I don't even believe that state savagery works all that well -- in some Arab countries a robber can get his hands cut off, but that doesn't seem to have stopped robbery there. And "protection of criminals"? I suspect that as a result of the Human Rights Acts and modern legal practises a lot of people believe that the criminals have more rights than they have.

Off topic but as an example, but I was reading of a situation in the UK where in an area a lot of people had their garden sheds broken into and all their garden tools robbed. Some of them covered the shed windows in wire mesh, but were told by the cops to take it off in case it injured a robber, who could then sue for the injury.

In the case reported by the OP, I wonder what would have happened to the two guys who rescued the woman if they had injured to scumbag in the process of detaining him?

HarryPotter41

mconigol wrote: »

Just goes to show how messed up the justice system is here. What moran of a judge thinks its a good idea to lock a teenager up for 15 years without thinking about what going to happen when he's released after missing some of the most formative years of his life?

While I'm all for tough punishments you can't just lock up an adolescent for over a decade and effectively throw away the key. Either lock him up for the rest of his natural life or ensure that he is going to be fit to rejoin society when the time comes. The prison system had him for 15 years are completely failed to make any impact. If that doesn't tell us that serious reform is needed then I don't know what does.

Did it ever enter your head that hes just bad and beyond any kind of redemption? Have you any documentation on anything that was done with him in prison or are you assuming?

Dudess

Ev84 wrote: »

Exactly. Had it been your sister/mother/aunt/cousin that had been attacked would you be so sympathetic towards this evil bastard?

No, but the law should be without emotion or prejudice or bias, so that's moot - and a tired and stupid argument. As if the judge is gonna be someone whose loved one was his victim.

go direct your hippy bulls**t at someone else.

Haha, you call not wanting a state to have the power to inflict violence "hippy bullsh1t" - proof you have put absolutely no thought into that whatsoever.

480905

mconigol wrote: »

Do you know the person?

I do. And many many many like him. And I know plenty who have availed of the services and not looked back .I know lads who have come off drugs and are now counsellors for their peers.
Having said that , I know of very few child sex offenders who willingly volunteer for these programmes, only doing so in order to get time off a sentence

Ev84

480905 wrote: »

I am an advocate for anybody getting the help they require whilst in Prison. Facilities are there, however sparse , but they are available for those who seek it.

Rehabilitation is a lost cause except for the measly few who choose to seek "help", Personally i think it is a waste of tax payers money in all but a few cases and it is not even mandatory... make your own minds up:

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/4019/57/

Dudess

480905 wrote: »

By Do Gooder, I mean those who form opinions on people who commit these crimes without actually knowing the person and thinking they have answers..Until you actually get to know these people ... THEN come and give opinions on how they are best rehabilitated/treated.

That could be applied to people who say "Cut off his balls!" etc.

And just because people don't want the state to have the power to inflict violence, doesn't mean they don't want the guy to be punished or that they think he isn't responsible for his crimes, or that they wouldn't think "Fair play" if a relation of those women gave him a hiding.
It's what the state has the power to do though - I'll have it non violent thanks.

Ev84

Dudess wrote: »

No, but the law should be without emotion or prejudice or bias, so that's moot - and a tired and stupid argument. As if the judge is gonna be someone whose loved one was his victim.

All you are stating is the obvious, i know all this. i was merely suggesting my own method of justice. obviously i don't want the state to act like i would.

There would be chaos :rolleyes:

Dudess wrote: »

Haha, you call not wanting a state to have the power to inflict violence "hippy bullsh1t" - proof you have put absolutely no thought into that whatsoever.

by hippy bulls**t i meant your "preaching" at me... Go direct it at someone else. I live by the law.

The attacker is the scum of the earth. An abomination. He should have had Repeat sexual offender tattooed on his forehead to warn us all when he was released... and no Dudess, i don't expect the state to go and give all the prisoners tattoos on their foreheads...

CiaranC

op wrote:

What happened to the punishment fitting the crime?

Eh? The guy got five years in prison for attempted robbery, common assault and verbal threats. How does that not fit the crime?

mconigol

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Did it ever enter your head that hes just bad and beyond any kind of redemption? Have you any documentation on anything that was done with him in prison or are you assuming?

Of course that did. It's very likely the case. But it doesn't take away from the fact that the state (i.e. us) had him for half of his life, in my opinion the majority of the most formative years and we failed to adequately ensure that he was refit to enter society. What ever about somebody older there was a golden opportunity to really influence this person and it didn't happen.

480905 wrote: »

I do. And many many many like him. And I know plenty who have availed of the services and not looked back .I know lads who have come off drugs and are now counsellors for their peers.

That's fair enough if you know the guy. You're probably more aware of the full details than anyone else here. It still doesn't take away from the fact that the justice/prison system failed to ensure that he was refit to enter society.

I'm all up for throwing away the key in certain circumstances but if your going to lock somebody up for 15 years then the consequences of that decision as to what happens when those 15 years are over should be fully thought out.

I don't care what anybody says but if I was thrown in prison at 16 I think that I'd be seriously messed up after 15 years no matter how much counselling/therapy I received.