Voting FG to keep labour as far away from Gov as possible

Inquitus

Alot of people I have been talking to will be voting FG, even though they never have in the past, with the express intention of keeping Labour as far away from Government as possible, indeed I myself will be doing exactly that.

Can FG get into power, solo without labour, on the back of middle Ireland wanting to keep Labour policy as far away from the Dept. of Finance as possible?

CoalBucket

Most people I know are voting FG to keep FF as far away from gov as possible

gcgirl

FF are the enemys but there are one or 2 FGers that throughout this election have turned me against FG, Leo is one his ego has well and truly lost its way, also their non stance on legislation of abortion in this country and their failure to back full gay marriage which in my eyes is discrimination.

femur61

ditto

andrewire

Voting FG is like voting FF. All high-profile FG TDs have said it in a way or another, including Michael Noonan, who also added to a Pat Kenny comment that 'they get on very well too'.

Why would anyone vote for FG?

• They support stag hunting
• They are against same-sex marriage
• They think the State should not be separated from the Church
• They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow
• They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place
• They want to kill the Irish language
• They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.
• They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.
• A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!
• They want to privatise the health system
• They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?
• They support NATO
• The list goes on and on.

Inquitus

andrewire wrote: »

Voting FG is like voting FF. All high-profile FG TDs have said it in a way or another, including Michael Noonan, who also added to a Pat Kenny comment that 'they get on very well too'.

Why would anyone vote for FG?

• They support stag hunting
• They are against same-sex marriage
• They think the State should not be separated from the Church
• They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow
• They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place
• They want to kill the Irish language
• They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.
• They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.
• A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!
• They want to privatise the health system
• They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?
• The list goes on and on.

Most of that is true, but FF are going to get wiped out, Lab are an economic joke......so what choice do we actually have?

andrewire

Inquitus wrote: »

Most of that is true, but FF are going to get wiped out, Lab are an economic joke......so what choice do we actually have?

Labour's policies aren't an economic joke. In fact, some EU ministers think the Labour approach to solving the deficit is the right way to go:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/18/ireland-austerity-measures-irish-labour-party

Manach

andrewire wrote: »

Voting FG is like voting FF. All high-profile FG TDs have said it in a way or another, including Michael Noonan, who also added to a Pat Kenny comment that 'they get on very well too'.

Why would anyone vote for FG?

• They support stag hunting
• They are against same-sex marriage
• They think the State should not be separated from the Church
• They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow
• They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place
• They want to kill the Irish language
• They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.
• They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.
• A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!
• They want to privatise the health system
• They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?
• The list goes on and on.

Thanks for the list of excellent reasons to vote FG, especially the Eircom in that most state bodies that fail to modernise with market conditions are doomed to fail.

bdeb

That's sad: There is nothing wrong with Labour apart from their little ego trips. Fine Gael are pretty much the same as FFail, so I could understand people voting FG to keep FF from office but not Labour.
I think Leo Varadkar summed up their mentality when on the VB show when he couldn't equate the raising suicide rates in Ireland to unemployment and poverty: He appeared to be mind boggled as to how/why this could be actually laughing off the suggestion.
If ye want to keep the FFailures out of office, vote strategically.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tucker.Tim

Inquitus wrote: »

Most of that is true, but FF are going to get wiped out, Lab are an economic joke......so what choice do we actually have?

Most of that is also very generic and mindfully warped by the poster, but yeah. Yeeeah.

femur61

andrewire wrote: »

Voting FG is like voting FF. All high-profile FG TDs have said it in a way or another, including Michael Noonan, who also added to a Pat Kenny comment that 'they get on very well too'.

Why would anyone vote for FG?

• They support stag hunting
• They are against same-sex marriage
• They think the State should not be separated from the Church
• They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow
• They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place
• They want to kill the Irish language
• They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.
• They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.
• A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!
• They want to privatise the health system
• They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?
• They support NATO
• The list goes on and on.

Bar the first two on stag hunting and gay marraige I personally agree with the rest of the points.

lang

andrewire wrote: »

Voting FG is like voting FF. All high-profile FG TDs have said it in a way or another, including Michael Noonan, who also added to a Pat Kenny comment that 'they get on very well too'.

Why would anyone vote for FG?

• They support stag hunting
• They are against same-sex marriage
• They think the State should not be separated from the Church
• They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow
• They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place
• They want to kill the Irish language
• They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.
• They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.
• A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!
• They want to privatise the health system
• They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?
• They support NATO
• The list goes on and on.

I'm really swinging from FG to Lab nearly on a day-by-day basis, to be honest. This has given me a clearer pictures of where my vote chould go. I voted FG, Labour and Greens in the last Local Election....not this time. Really looks as though my Preferences will be less and less.

I'm actually getting more and more unsure of what type of country we will have if FG get into power (one party, or as v large party in coalition). It is at this time in our nations history that we DO NOT sell off our national assests. We have all seen how well the FF govs over the years have 'looked after' our national interests re Selling of the Oil at rock-bottom prices.

As a little aside: Any one in DLR been met at the door by any Candidate or their canvasers? So far, only had PBP canvaser and Independent Carl Haughton knock on the door. Will defo make a difference in how I used my lower preferences.

lang

femur61 wrote: »

Bar the first two on stag hunting and gay marraige I personally agree with the rest of the points.

If you support the right to Same-sex Marriage, how can you support the fact that there should not be a seperation between Church and State? The Church (by virtue of Bunreacht na hÉireann) has such a powerful position that the State are effectively preculded from introducing such a measure as Same-sex Marriage. We need a Gov that has the balls to stand up to the such a body and tell them that their power is long since gone. It is only with a true seperation of Church and State that the country can look at things without tinted glasses. We need a fresh look at things.

The President of Ireland is merely a figurehead position and in reality could be held for 10 years without much issue from me. The power of the President is very limited and I feel there is no point in reducing the term of office so that we will have more elections more often. Not only does it cost a bomb to hold an election there are the knock-on implications for Schools and other public builds used as Polling Stations.

HellFireClub

They polling very strongly in Dublin Mid West regrettably...

I've a feeling an awful lot of people are going to regret voting for FG in a year or so..

Sully

andrewire wrote: »

[*]They support stag hunting

As did Labour actually, but being the populist party they said differently when they noticed there were possible votes to be taken from Fine Gael who are removing the ban. (Only reversed in the past week or so)

[*]They are against same-sex marriage

FG is a moderately conservative party in a moderately conservative country so their saying they don't currently support gay marriage is no great shock to anybody. They, however, did not oppose Civil Unions and had previously published policy on Civil Unions before Fianna Fail.

[*]They think the State should not be separated from the Church

Again, moderately conservative party in a moderately conservative country.

[*]They will deflate the economy by severely cutting spending in a period when we need to grow

Whereas Labour will slash and burn everywhere. 50% tax hikes and 50% cuts. Just 25% less cuts then Fine Gael. Fine Gael can cut out waste, for example, in the administrative end of our public service. 'Waste' being the term, will hardly deflate our economy which has been deflated enough thanks to Fianna Fail. Labour want to increase peoples taxes - people can hardly pay the ones that Fianna Fail put on them and yet they propose 50% rise in various taxes!

[*]They want to make others pay for the mistakes of people who bought houses they couldn't afford in the first place

Well, to be fair, we need to do something. Its not just a few of us who are screwed, a lot of us are. A huge amount. We are in the middle of a recession, FF put up a lot of taxes, Labour want to do even more taxes, the banks are insisting the people pay even though they cant while the banks got a huge bailout because of incompetence, lack of regulations and supervision by the government and banks over the years. So we NEED to help those who are struggling.

Fine Gaels proposal would be to increase relief to 30%, about €166 a month. Only party to propose this. They wont put any money into the banks until the stress tests are completed. What, €100bn put in already or so?

[*]They want to kill the Irish language

Is it not dead already? Can you speak fluent? We learn it from primary up into secondary, 12 years, and only a very very very small amount of people in this country can speak the language. Yet, if I do German in Leaving Cert I can speak it more fluently then Irish!!!

orcing the subject on people at leaving cert level is madness. FG have plans on completely reforming the way the language is thought before making it an option. Has French, German, Spanish etc been destroyed as a result of being optional? After ten years of the new and improved curriculum, then, and only then, will Irish become optional for the Leaving Certificate. The biggest indictment of the current syllabus is that many people after just 5 years learning a foreign language in secondary school come out of school more fluent in that foreign language than they do in Irish. The Fine Gael plan aims to change that.

[*]They want to introduce stupid policies like cutting the presidential period from 7 years to 5 years, as if that was a good thing. It means the State will have to pay for elections every 5 years instead of 7.

Its called democracy. The Presidents role needs complete overhauled, as its utterly pointless IMO. But every seven years is pathetic. At the end of the day, we still have to pay for the election - just sooner. So really, its absolutely no odds to the country. There is an election due now, so it would prob be 2016 or so the next election would take place.

[*]They want to scrap the Senate without going into a period of consultation. Hence, giving more power to people like Mattie McGrath and all the cronies we have as TDs.

"period of consultation"? If the people don't agree, we can reject the idea. Its called a referendum. Labour also support scrapping the Senate, as does Fianna Fail.

[*]A number of FG politicians had no confidence in Enda Kenny last year, but they suddenly do? What a joke!

It would seem those doubting Thomases are 1) Not on the front bench, 2) Put to the back benches, 3) Have been proven wrong for doubting Kenny.

Labour have a leader which, according to most polls, are seriously lagging behind Fine Gael and are heading towards Fianna Fail numbers in the poll. Its a real possibility that they wont be in the next government at all. They have a leader which, at the moment, wants to shout about Fine Gael policies and not enough about whatever policies they have on offer. Thankfully, Kenny has better substance and is getting on with outlining his plans to keep this country afloat.

Fianna Fail voted confidence in Cowen, did they not? He ended up resigning anyway, but they had faith in him. They put in a new leader who is just as guilty as Cowen is.

Those in glass houses...

[*]They want to privatise the health system

Fine Gael’s FairCare Health Strategy will eliminate long waiting lists, end the unfair public-private two-tier system and replace it with a universal health insurance system based on the renowned Dutch model. FairCare offers equal access to all. Something our current system is clearly not doing.

Labour are not that far away from such also. Scrapping the two-tier system, allow competition from hospitals to provide better care etc.

Wow, such a difference. Fianna Fail? Keep it the same. But then again, it was Micheal Martin that signed on the dotted line for this disastrous health care system we have atm.

[*]They want to sell State bodies to raise money but at what cost? Remember eircom?

New Era got a very good review in all the newpapers, business shows and economists when it was launched. The plan has been well thought out, and will be done correctly. Just because Fianna Fail made a balls of it, doesn't mean Fine Gael will. Fine Gael will invest an extra €7bn over the next 4 years to build essential new infrastructure in broadband, green energy and water networks.

[*]They support NATO

Fine Gael does not support Irish membership of NATO.

[*]The list goes on and on.
[/LIST]

Fail tbh.

andrewire

Sully wrote: »

As did Labour actually, but being the populist party they said differently when they noticed there were possible votes to be taken from Fine Gael who are removing the ban. (Only reversed in the past week or so)



FG is a moderately conservative party in a moderately conservative country so their saying they don't currently support gay marriage is no great shock to anybody. They, however, did not oppose Civil Unions and had previously published policy on Civil Unions before Fianna Fail.



Again, moderately conservative party in a moderately conservative country.



Whereas Labour will slash and burn everywhere. 50% tax hikes and 50% cuts. Just 25% less cuts then Fine Gael. Fine Gael can cut out waste, for example, in the administrative end of our public service. 'Waste' being the term, will hardly deflate our economy which has been deflated enough thanks to Fianna Fail. Labour want to increase peoples taxes - people can hardly pay the ones that Fianna Fail put on them and yet they propose 50% rise in various taxes!



Well, to be fair, we need to do something. Its not just a few of us who are screwed, a lot of us are. A huge amount. We are in the middle of a recession, FF put up a lot of taxes, Labour want to do even more taxes, the banks are insisting the people pay even though they cant while the banks got a huge bailout because of incompetence, lack of regulations and supervision by the government and banks over the years. So we NEED to help those who are struggling.

Fine Gaels proposal would be to increase relief to 30%, about €166 a month. Only party to propose this. They wont put any money into the banks until the stress tests are completed. What, €100bn put in already or so?




Is it not dead already? Can you speak fluent? We learn it from primary up into secondary, 12 years, and only a very very very small amount of people in this country can speak the language. Yet, if I do German in Leaving Cert I can speak it more fluently then Irish!!!

orcing the subject on people at leaving cert level is madness. FG have plans on completely reforming the way the language is thought before making it an option. Has French, German, Spanish etc been destroyed as a result of being optional? After ten years of the new and improved curriculum, then, and only then, will Irish become optional for the Leaving Certificate. The biggest indictment of the current syllabus is that many people after just 5 years learning a foreign language in secondary school come out of school more fluent in that foreign language than they do in Irish. The Fine Gael plan aims to change that.



Its called democracy. The Presidents role needs complete overhauled, as its utterly pointless IMO. But every seven years is pathetic. At the end of the day, we still have to pay for the election - just sooner. So really, its absolutely no odds to the country. There is an election due now, so it would prob be 2016 or so the next election would take place.



"period of consultation"? If the people don't agree, we can reject the idea. Its called a referendum. Labour also support scrapping the Senate, as does Fianna Fail.



It would seem those doubting Thomases are 1) Not on the front bench, 2) Put to the back benches, 3) Have been proven wrong for doubting Kenny.

Labour have a leader which, according to most polls, are seriously lagging behind Fine Gael and are heading towards Fianna Fail numbers in the poll. Its a real possibility that they wont be in the next government at all. They have a leader which, at the moment, wants to shout about Fine Gael policies and not enough about whatever policies they have on offer. Thankfully, Kenny has better substance and is getting on with outlining his plans to keep this country afloat.

Fianna Fail voted confidence in Cowen, did they not? He ended up resigning anyway, but they had faith in him. They put in a new leader who is just as guilty as Cowen is.

Those in glass houses...



Fine Gael’s FairCare Health Strategy will eliminate long waiting lists, end the unfair public-private two-tier system and replace it with a universal health insurance system based on the renowned Dutch model. FairCare offers equal access to all. Something our current system is clearly not doing.

Labour are not that far away from such also. Scrapping the two-tier system, allow competition from hospitals to provide better care etc.

Wow, such a difference. Fianna Fail? Keep it the same. But then again, it was Micheal Martin that signed on the dotted line for this disastrous health care system we have atm.



New Era got a very good review in all the newpapers, business shows and economists when it was launched. The plan has been well thought out, and will be done correctly. Just because Fianna Fail made a balls of it, doesn't mean Fine Gael will. Fine Gael will invest an extra €7bn over the next 4 years to build essential new infrastructure in broadband, green energy and water networks.



Fine Gael does not support Irish membership of NATO.



Fail tbh.

All the opinion polls regarding same-sex civil unions have showed overwhelming support for its introduction so your argument of a 'moderately conservative society' is, to be fair, rubbish. FG has also opposed civil unions for gays so, not only your argument is rubbish, part of it is actually a lie. Civil partnerships aren't the same as civil unions. I quote: 'They (Fine Gael), however, did not oppose Civil Unions and had previously published policy on Civil Unions before Fianna Fail'.

To justify that FG supports Church intervention on State matters is also rubbish. So, what you're saying is that the State can discriminate deliberately just because the Church says so. How democratic and representative of the modern Ireland this is!

I don't know why you brought the Labour party into this discussion, we're talking about Fine Gael. To justify FG policies based on your perception of other parties' policies isn't what this discussion is about. I could very well justify Labour policies based on my negative view of Sinn Féin policies. Was that the point of this argument? No.

Moreover, Fine Gael says they want to save money by cutting waste in the public service. But how? Have they mentioned actual processes to achieve this?

Also, why should I pay for your mortgage? Or for anyone's mortgage? I understand if someone has lost his/her job the State should provide them with help, but many of them also bought houses they could not afford in the first place. So, we have to pay not only for the mistakes of the bankers, developers and politicians but also the mistakes of all the people who went crazy during the boom. Oh yes, but they are calling the government to burn the bondholders! How ironic. Burn the bondholders but pay for my mortgage.

Agree on what you said about the role of the President. Although, FG's proposal to reduce the presidential term is still daft. Why not scrap the position instead? They are being populist on this issue.

Eamon Gilmore still has a higher approval rate than Enda Kenny. Latest Red C poll from 16/2/2011: 'Eamon Gilmore is the most popular leader with a satisfaction rating of 48pc, followed by Micheal Martin (37pc), Gerry Adams (28pc), and Enda Kenny (25pc)'.

I don't see Gilmore 'lagging behind FG'. But then again the OP wasn't talking about Labour nor Gilmore.

Lastly, the fact that FG policies got good reviews in newspapers says nothing. Newspapers --all of them-- have private interests and always try to push their agenda. The only respectable daily newspapers is The Irish Times, and still favours Fine Gael over any other party. If Enda Kenny farts live on TV, he's a genius! Wait one year after he becomes Taoiseach and see.

Oh and how will Fine Gael invest money out of the NPRS if there's only €4bn left? I see they keep saying they will use 7 billion, for this, 2 billion for that, but there isn't enough money in it. Thanks to FF, of course!


I respect your opinion, but I unreservedly disagree with it. You're obviously voting for Fine Gael anyway.

irishh_bob

gcgirl wrote: »

FF are the enemys but there are one or 2 FGers that throughout this election have turned me against FG, Leo is one his ego has well and truly lost its way, also their non stance on legislation of abortion in this country and their failure to back full gay marriage which in my eyes is discrimination.

your obviously very liberal so i doubt you ever had any intention of voting FG anyhow , every party has to inject a degree of populism into thier election platform , the majority of people in ireland do not support gay marriage so it would be very unwise for the potential lead party in goverment to make it a central plank of thier manifesto

evercloserunion

If you want to keep Labour out of power you're better of voting FF.

Rubik.

irishh_bob wrote: »

your obviously very liberal so i doubt you ever had any intention of voting FG anyhow , every party has to inject a degree of populism into thier election platform , the majority of people in ireland do not support gay marriage so it would be very unwise for the potential lead party in goverment to make it a central plank of thier manifesto

67% believe gay couples should be allowed to marry.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0915/1224278900109.html

evercloserunion

Deleted User wrote: »

I've a feeling an awful lot of people are going to regret voting for FG in a year or so..

Yup, next year when they make sending their horribly cringey Valentine's e-cards compulsory.

takun

bdeb wrote: »

I think Leo Varadkar summed up their mentality when on the VB show when he couldn't equate the raising suicide rates in Ireland to unemployment and poverty: He appeared to be mind boggled as to how/why this could be actually laughing off the suggestion.

I'm no fan of Leo but that whole thing was overblown. It wasn't suicide that was shown in that study to be more prevalent among poorer people, it was early death. But that's an aside.

He was not arguing that this was not the case, he was pointing out that "Correlation does not imply causation", which is a central tenet of statistics and scientific study, and generally ignored by the mainstream press when reporting on science or on statistical result.

An oft quoted example of ignoring this principle is that there is a direct correlation between going to bed with your shoes on and waking up with a headache. This is a fact. You could take this to mean sleeping in shoes makes your head hurt, rather than that drinking too much makes you forget to take off your shoes while en route to the inevitable headache.

So he was saying that it was not possible to determine causes just by looking at the numbers in the study. As it happens this exact caveat was included in their conclusions by the authors of the study. His point was as I took it, that trying to determine the causes was important, otherwise resources could be wasted trying to fix the wrong things.

But he was a bit dumb to argue the toss as vehemently as he did, given the relative obscurity of the point he was making.