Tony Buckley signs three-year deal with Sale Sharks

ironingbored

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/0216/buckleyt_munster_sale.html

:eek:

thomond2006

Wow can't believe that. He was our great hope for a long time. Could it be that he wasn't offered an international contract? That would be aa big drop in salary.

I assume this means there is a tighthead on the way to Munster? Probably Mike Ross given the rumour mill....

peterako

Why would Leinster let Mike Ross move to another Province?


(OK....he's from Fermoy....but....)

razorblunt

Thing is he's been the great white hope for far too long. He's a very frustrating player and blows so hot and cold its crazy.

Best of luck to him though and hopefully it makes him a better player.

bamboozle

i'd say we'll see Hagan to Leinster and Ross to Munster. Ross will be tempted to Munster with offer of a central contract even though having healy cronin and ross playing together at Leinster would be great for the international team.

to be honest mushy leaving munster is a good thing for them, they can focus on props who can actually prop, good opportunity for Dave Ryan and Archer.

buck65

Best of luck to Tony, never really fulfilled his potential in Ireland, super rugby player but injury prone and of course the scrum.

Have Munster's blazers grown a pair?

Otacon

From a Munster and Ireland perspective, if we are to sign a new TH, I would prefer if it were Hagan. Not saying he is better than Ross, but 1. Hagan will be called up less to the national team, meaning he will get more games at Munster and 2. as mentioned above, with Healy, Cronin and Ross together at Leinster, that would be best for Ireland.

[Jackass]

If I was a Munster fan, I'd be delighted with this news. Losing a sub par tighthead as your number one medium term option, and replacing him with either the best tighthead in the country (Mike Ross) or a big signing.

To be honest, as much of a legend as Ross is, I've no problem seeing players stick with their home province where possible, and with Stan Wright, Jamie Hagan, and Stuart Maguire, Leinster have great tighthead options, both at present and in the future, and best of luck to Ross at Munster I say...

In fairness, we've done pretty good business off Munster with Cronin and Reddan to be fair, and they'll have Jones and Keatley, so they even out to some extent, but I'd like in the longer term, Leinster players at Leinster and Munster players at Munster where possible, especially if Munster are struggling in an area and we're not AND have a Munster player doing a job for us when we could live without him, if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd find that quite frustraiting.

Hippo

If the outcome of this is a centrally-contracted Ross being sent down to Limerick I'll be very unhappy. There's not much in the way of precedent for a frontline, first choice international player to be removed from his club and sent elsewhere as some kind of balancing act.

Munster have no centres either, should they be entitled to a season from BOD? (And yes, I know Ross is from Cork)

Quint2010

Hagan has just signed a new 2 year deal with Connacht (see URL) and why would Leinster let Ross leave? He's the best scrummaging tight head in the country and it would be suicide to let him go

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2011/01/11/jamie-hagan-resigns-for-connacht/

LeeroyJones

Quint2010 wrote: »

Hagan has just signed a new 2 year deal with Connacht (see URL) and why would Leinster let Ross leave? He's the best scrummaging tight head in the country and it would be suicide to let him go

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2011/01/11/jamie-hagan-resigns-for-connacht/

Hagan has signed for Leinster
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2011/2/09/Hagan-move-disappoints-Elwood/gnid-87960/

All signs are pointing Ross down the M7 to Limerick it seems

Hippo

Quint2010 wrote: »

Hagan has just signed a new 2 year deal with Connacht (see URL) and why would Leinster let Ross leave? He's the best scrummaging tight head in the country and it would be suicide to let him go

It may not be up to Leinster. Hopefully the Hagan development will change the situation.

Interesting conflicting reports there!

[Jackass]

Well, the conflict over Hagan was that the two year extension he "penned" with Connacht was verbal only, but then he actually signed on the dotted line for Leinster, so needless to say, Connacht and Elwood were pretty dismayed at this, but the Leinster move is official.

No doubt there's been behind the scenes bargaining with the tight heads, and you can be sure Maguire is probably off to Connacht next season, seeing as Hagan returned to Leinster, probably on the promise of first team rugby, with Ross moving to Munster who need a good tight head, and Buckley, in all honesty, probably being let go by the union.

A lot of shifting, but I don't see why Leinster fans are so peeved at Ross leaving. He's a fine scrummager, but he's over 30 and hasn't a whole lot of years left in him.

Wright is a better player, and around the same age, and I'd have no problem having the better tight head starting and have the best young tight head in the country coming through...

We can't be greedy, he's a Munster man and they need him, and I certainly wouldn't begrudge them the player, and would certainly much prefer having Hagan at Leinster than at Munster, where in the long run, he's the real prize, and with Wright coming back, I don't think we'll be weakened one bit..

Is Jack O'Connell a loose or tight head? I seem to think he's loose but has played at tight? (not to be confused with Jack McGrath A.K.A Cian Healy 2.0)

bamboozle

Hippo wrote: »

If the outcome of this is a centrally-contracted Ross being sent down to Limerick I'll be very unhappy. There's not much in the way of precedent for a frontline, first choice international player to be removed from his club and sent elsewhere as some kind of balancing act.

Munster have no centres either, should they be entitled to a season from BOD? (And yes, I know Ross is from Cork)

maybe Ross wants to return to Munster?
these central contracts and the players advisory board are messy i remember a few years back Simon Easterby wanted to sign for Leinster, the advisory board told him he could sign for Ulster but not Leinster, so he stayed at Llenelli.

myflipflops

I presume if Ross moves to Munster, a massive influence on the switch would be that he WANTS to go. There's surely still a big draw for a player to play for his native province.

Hippo

For all the hype, Hagan is still unproven, and I'm not sure he's an adequate replacement at present for the best TH in the country.

It's possible of course that Ross wants to go back to Munster, despite the fact that they did little to develop his career, but I suspect it may not be up to him in any case.

Thread moving a little OT perhaps, sorry....

The Rooster

[Jackass] wrote: »

Wright is a better player..

Jeez, I certainly wouldnt agree with that, and I'd be very surprised if in Leinster's big games to come that Ross isnt 3 and Wright on the bench. But great to have the two of them.

I can see the sense in the Hagan-Ross merry go round. If it does turn out to be true it'll be interesting to know whether Ross was given the ultimatum of having to move to Munster if he wanted a central contract.

Of course it could still turn out that Stan's contract is not renewed and we go with Ross and Hagan as our tight heads next year, while Munster sign a NIQ

smurphy29

Wow, a bolt from the blue.

Ross and Wright are both out of contract with Leinster, and don't forget BJ Botha is angling for a move, so there are still a lot of possibilities on the table.

Most likely event, I suppose, is that Botha heads to whoever doesn't get Ross.

Still, it's an indictment of Buckley's shamefully poor performances this season that he is going. After the summer tour I thought he was finally going to grab his opportunity, but he has singularly failed to do so. He has had every chance to establish himself as Ireland's first choice tighthead. How much motivation did he need? Even if he was halfway to average he was nailed on for the RWC. Now he'll be spending September and October scratching it out in the lower echelons of the Premiership against the likes of Leeds, Worcester and Necastle.

myflipflops

myflipflops wrote: »

I presume if Ross moves to Munster, a massive influence on the switch would be that he WANTS to go. There's surely still a big draw for a player to play for his native province.

Everyone ignoring this! If Ross goes to Munster, to fill the gap left by Buckley, it will mostly be because he wants to go. I can't see Leinster trying to out him, so him going home would probably be his decision.

I'd be disappointed, but completely understand.

I think with Buckley going to Sale, that we wont be seeing any more of him tbh. Exiles wont feature in national squads unless they're #1 choices.

CouchSmart

Wow.

Hopefully Ross won't go south but we'll just have to wait and see.

Zzippy

Hippo wrote: »

For all the hype, Hagan is still unproven, and I'm not sure he's an adequate replacement at present for the best TH in the country.

It's possible of course that Ross wants to go back to Munster, despite the fact that they did little to develop his career, but I suspect it may not be up to him in any case.

Thread moving a little OT perhaps, sorry....

Have you watched Hagan much in the last 2 seasons? He is anything but unproven, has been one of Connacht's most important players this year, and our scrum has been rock solid when he plays. Also very good defence and around the park. I will be astonished if he is not the starting TH for Ireland in 2/3 years, and nails it down for a long time. Believe me, you're getting a good deal, we are very sorry to see him leave.

Risteard

Hippo wrote: »

If the outcome of this is a centrally-contracted Ross being sent down to Limerick I'll be very unhappy. There's not much in the way of precedent for a frontline, first choice international player to be removed from his club and sent elsewhere as some kind of balancing act.

Munster have no centres either, should they be entitled to a season from BOD? (And yes, I know Ross is from Cork)

Tbh, I think the fact that Ross is from Cork would possibly the reason to go. Why would a Leinster born player starting in the Leinster team, currently looking like one of the best teams in Europe, go to Munster? That wouldn't make any sense. Plus as has been stated Ross might actually want to go. Either way it's good for the Irish team and in the long run probably better for Leinster as well, considering they'd have a Leinster born player who's a very promising young prop and will be a long term asset.

Of course this is all based on whether Ross does actually come back to Munster, nothing has been confirmed yet.

Risteard

Oh and sorry for the double post but I suppose I have to address the Buckley issue.

It has been pretty frustrating watching Buckley over the years because we all know the scrummaging problems, but one of the best sights on Thomond Park was when Buckley would pick up the ball and just barrel through people, but at the end of the day a prop needs to scrummage. It certainly seems a harsh but possibly necessary measure to cut Buckley.

I wish him and his family well in Sale and I hope that it works out for him.

CouchSmart

This must raise questions over certain coaches, hmm, opinions. Can't believe our(Ireland) forwards coach is letting potentially 'the best tighthead' in the world go...

Risteard

CouchSmart wrote: »

This must raise questions over certain coaches, hmm, opinions. Can't believe our(Ireland) forwards coach is letting potentially 'the best tighthead' in the world go...

I still don't understand why people take coaches' word as anything but spin. What was he supposed to say, 'Buckley is **** and couldn't hold up a door' and then pick him?

PhatPiggins

The Rooster wrote: »

Jeez, I certainly wouldnt agree with that, and I'd be very surprised if in Leinster's big games to come that Ross isnt 3 and Wright on the bench. But great to have the two of them.

I can see the sense in the Hagan-Ross merry go round. If it does turn out to be true it'll be interesting to know whether Ross was given the ultimatum of having to move to Munster if he wanted a central contract.

Of course it could still turn out that Stan's contract is not renewed and we go with Ross and Hagan as our tight heads next year, while Munster sign a NIQ

If you don't want Wright we'll take your hand off at the elbow to get him down here. He's a terrific player, scrumages nearly as well as Ross, has a presence around the park and can play losehead as well. Yes please.

shanagarry

BJ Botha is strongly rumoured to be going back to South Africa to play for the Lions.

Good riddance. He's been more trouble that he's worth for Munster and Ireland. All Munster need to do now is jettison Hayes and they can start giving other guys a go.

JustinDee

Risteard wrote: »

I still don't understand why people take coaches' word as anything but spin. What was he supposed to say, 'Buckley is **** and couldn't hold up a door' and then pick him?

The coach in question is a straight-talking fella. If he says he rates Buckley as a promise then I would think he rates him as a promise.

As for 'letting him go', he has no influence over the contracting of players.

Stev_o

Risteard wrote: »

Tbh, I think the fact that Ross is from Cork would possibly the reason to go. Why would a Leinster born player starting in the Leinster team, currently looking like one of the best teams in Europe, go to Munster? That wouldn't make any sense. Plus as has been stated Ross might actually want to go. Either way it's good for the Irish team and in the long run probably better for Leinster as well, considering they'd have a Leinster born player who's a very promising young prop and will be a long term asset.

Of course this is all based on whether Ross does actually come back to Munster, nothing has been confirmed yet.

I don't think they ll be picking from teams that will be playing in the Championship anyway....

Sale is a death bed.

Risteard

JustinDee wrote: »

The coach in question is a straight-talking fella. If he says he rates Buckley as a promise then I would think he rates him as a promise.

As for 'letting him go', he has no influence over the contracting of players.

Well you would know better than I do. Besides, I believe he said 'had the potential' to be world class in any case, that potential presumably being reliant on whether he could scrummage consistently.

It has to be said though, whenever Buckley has done well, it's been more in the Ireland camp than at Munster.

tolosenc

Do Munster have anyone coming up at TH? That would surely be their best option, no?

buck65

Speculation seems to be that the IRFU had offered Buckley a centrally contracted deal last October that was agreed on but was withdrawn after the Ospreys away game where Munster and Buckley were in all kinds of trouble (but survived against the week before!?).
If true obviously the IRFU started playing hardball and aimed to renegotiate their offer (probably in light of their shambolic Autumn Internationals price mess) or else they decided on that Ospreys showing that Buckley wasn't worth centrally contracting anymore.
Buckley seems to have been shafted and quite rightly went about examining his options and landed a great deal that the IRFU weren't going to match.
By all accounts Munster (as usual) were the last to know and had no influence on the outcome.

Hippo

Zzippy wrote: »

Have you watched Hagan much in the last 2 seasons? He is anything but unproven, has been one of Connacht's most important players this year, and our scrum has been rock solid when he plays. Also very good defence and around the park. I will be astonished if he is not the starting TH for Ireland in 2/3 years, and nails it down for a long time. Believe me, you're getting a good deal, we are very sorry to see him leave.

Ok then, unproven at HEC and Test level. You may well be right, he could be great. Still not delighted with the idea of the Ross move!

The idea that it's what he wants is up for debate, perhaps it's true. The IRFU, however, have not been particularly accommodating in this regard in the past.

Risteard

tolosenc wrote: »

Do Munster have anyone coming up at TH? That would surely be their best option, no?

If we had one, sure but I wouldn't like to be relying on a rookie prop in the HC. Hopefully Ross comes down, and becomes starting TH whilst allowing for our academy props to get more significant gametime. We're going to be down two THs next season so hopefully more gametime can be afforded to the younger players.

john kinsella

You have to wonder was he forced out for a new arrival?

Sale is a terrible move for him if he was given other options. He must be taking a huge salary cut.
Do you think he still will have an IRFU contract or will Sale be his final resting place?
In fairness i thought he was brilliant against the AB's last year but very little before or after that.

Jemo

Players often do what they say they won't. I recall Hagan saying he wasn't comfortable in the Leinster squad and preferred the country lads at Connacht. And yet he has returned. I cannot recall Ross even mentioning Munster in an interview but surely he will have some choice in the matter. My only problem with this whole situation is that Stan, (who before injury was a far better player than Ross is now) is coming back from a long term injury. There is nothing to say he will regain the form we know he can have as of yet. To let Ross go before we know what is happening with Stan would be ludicrous. 3 tightheads who all deserve to be starters may be pushing it though, unless Van de Mwere is let go and Stan used as a loosey. Personally I think Hagan and Cronin should have stayed with Connacht and Ross with Leinster but thats all in the past now.

buck65

Jemo wrote: »

Players often do what they say they won't. I recall Hagan saying he wasn't comfortable in the Leinster squad and preferred the country lads at Connacht. And yet he has returned. I cannot recall Ross even mentioning Munster in an interview but surely he will have some choice in the matter. My only problem with this whole situation is that Stan, (who before injury was a far better player than Ross is now) is coming back from a long term injury. There is nothing to say he will regain the form we know he can have as of yet. To let Ross go before we know what is happening with Stan would be ludicrous. 3 tightheads who all deserve to be starters may be pushing it though, unless Van de Mwere is let go and Stan used as a loosey. Personally I think Hagan and Cronin should have stayed with Connacht and Ross with Leinster but thats all in the past now.

Aha but you forget that Munster is the big money maker and it suits everyone to have Ross there and a functioning scrum too.

Amazotheamazing

Afaik, Munster are holding trials for AIL props atm, they are hoping to find someone from within to step up. That might sound crazy, but I think Shawe (Leinster) and Cronin (Ulster) have showed there's good scrummagers in the AIL who might be able to hold their own in the scrums but aren't quite fit enough for the pro game. If Leinster had found Shawe 5 years ago he could have a real chance at a pro career.

I don't see Ross moving to Munster tbh, unless he personally wants to move (prove a point maybe?).

roycon

whatever happened to that prop from ucc -something ryan very big lad, good in the scrum, aggressive around the pitch aswell

GymJim

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Afaik, Munster are holding trials for AIL props atm, they are hoping to find someone from within to step up. That might sound crazy, but I think Shawe (Leinster) and Cronin (Ulster) have showed there's good scrummagers in the AIL who might be able to hold their own in the scrums but aren't quite fit enough for the pro game. If Leinster had found Shawe 5 years ago he could have a real chance at a pro career.

I don't see Ross moving to Munster tbh, unless he personally wants to move (prove a point maybe?).

Do you really think they're holding trials for AIL props to bring one in to be first-choice? That would be very naive thinking. There have been plenty of trials given to AIL props in the past to see what's out there and if some are capable of making the step up to professional rugby (especially from a ML perspective). It's certainly not a case stepping straight into the team as is clear from your examples of Shawe and Cronin.

Munster are a professional outfit so to suggest that they intend to leave go of their only international prop (and yes I am excluding the Bull obviously at this stage) and hope to replace him with a completely unproven player is madness. If you really don't think there is someone proven lined up I don't know what to say.

It does indeed look very likely that Ross will come back to Munster. It is worth remembering that the was not let go by the current management set-up and the fact he is from Cork would have a big bearing, just as it does in relation to Hagan returning to Leinster.

I do think Hagan's returned to Connacht is a pre-cursor to Ross's move as he would not be going back without the promise of sufficient game-time. Clearly having Hagan, Stan, Ross and some of the younger props in the squad would not be feasible.

GymJim

roycon wrote: »

whatever happened to that prop from ucc -something ryan very big lad, good in the scrum, aggressive around the pitch aswell

John Ryan?! Still playing with UCC, scored a try against Buccaneers the weekend just gone

Amazotheamazing

roycon wrote: »

whatever happened to that prop from ucc -something ryan very big lad, good in the scrum, aggressive around the pitch aswell

The examiner were saying he was called up for Munster trials.

profitius

Shocked about Mushy going. I'm in 2 minds about it but overall I'd say its best for all concerned if he moves on. He is potentially a great player but never lived up to that potential for various reasons. Still he wouldn't be my first choice to leave. Hopefully it opens up opportunities for other players to come in.

Its good they're looking at AIL props. Its very hard to pick the best props when they're younger because they're not allowed to scrummage properly until a certain age so that means let them play AIL rugby and let the cream rise to the top that way.

John Ryan is a loosehead mainly I think but they're trying him out at tighthead too. He's supposed to be physically very impressive and good in the loose too.

I'd say somebody between Darragh Hurley, Dave Ryan, Marcus Horan and WDP will be left go this summer. Hurley, Dave Ryan and Horan are all prone to injuries although Darragh Hurley has had a good season of being injury free.

Theres also Stephen Archer who I don't think wil make it as a prop. Any time I've seen him he's gone backwards in the scrums.

durkadurka

Its been interesting the last month or so. In November he was looking like he'd be number 1 TH, to take over from Hayes.
Ross was being ignored.
Then in January, he was suddenly demoted to the ireland A squad, and out of the picture altogether.

Then Ross got his start, he's done ok and Buckley is becoming a distant memory.

Its like the coaches suddenly realised that we was never going to be a decent scrummager and have given up on him.

Dr.Evil

Surprising move, is essentially ruling himself out of Ireland contention with that move I think personally. It's almost like admitting defeat and he's moving on..

SomeFool

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Surprising move, is essentially ruling himself out of Ireland contention with that move I think personally. It's almost like admitting defeat and he's moving on..

You'd never know what proper weekly gametime might do for him, could be the very thing that revitalises his career.

swan82

john kinsella wrote: »

You have to wonder was he forced out for a new arrival?

Sale is a terrible move for him if he was given other options. He must be taking a huge salary cut.
Do you think he still will have an IRFU contract or will Sale be his final resting place?
In fairness i thought he was brilliant against the AB's last year but very little before or after that.

Mike Ross is arriving,so probably.

I would imagine he wasnt on a huge salary anyway,so sale are probably paying close enough to what he was on.

He doesnt need an IRFU contract to play for Ireland.

toomevara

Sheridan and Buckley, that's a very, very large Sale frontrow, be interesting to see how they go. Could be the making of Buckley. good luck to him

phog

I wish him the best of luck in his move to Sale and hopefully, he'll prove his critics wrong but never against Munster

Some are writing him off playing for Ireland now that he has moved abroad, have I missed something or it there a policy not to pick players that are working abroad?

danthefan

Best of luck to him and all that but hopefully this means he won't play for Ireland again.