Labour's Policy on Irish Unificaton

CMACSAFF

Does anybody know what Labour's official position on Irish unification is? I cant find it on their website and they seem very vague on the North other than support for the Good Friday Agreement etc..

I know FF have it stated as a political objective and am just wondering what Labour's position is.

Cheers!

Killer Pigeon

Labour don't do gombeen politics.

punchdrunk

the country is on it's knees,NI isn't exactly "resource rich"
our dole queues are long enough,and our security forces in no position to handle the area even in it's present state if the British leave
let's leave them be for now! thanks very much

Kev_ps3

punchdrunk wrote: »

the country is on it's knees,NI isn't exactly "resource rich"
our dole queues are long enough,and our security forces in no position to handle the area even in it's present state if the British leave
let's leave them be for now! thanks very much

eh no, us real Irish want our land back thank you very much.

punchdrunk

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

eh no, us real Irish want our land back thank you very much.

I'd rather be a Realist,with a job
thanks very much

Killer Pigeon

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

eh no, us real Irish want our land back thank you very much.

It's going to cost billions in terms of administration implementation, etc.. if NI was to be absorbed into the Republic, billions that we don't have at the moment. A grand reunification would happen in better economic times.

The NI population will make the decision regardless, with accordance to the GFA. I can't honestly see them wanting to join us in our present economic state. Plus many of their non-politically motivated population are going to look at the quirks that they have being part of the UK versus the quirks they have being part of Ireland when making their decision on the ballot paper.

punchdrunk

I love the usual Nationalist line of "it's our land,if you were a real irishman sure you'd agree"


eh lets have a wee look,here's what 30 seconds on wiki tells us about employment in NI

The Northern Ireland economy is the smallest of the four economies making up the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland has traditionally had an industrial economy, most notably in shipbuilding, rope manufacture and textiles, but most heavy industry has since been replaced by services, primarily the public sector. Tourism also plays a big role in the local economy. More recently the economy has benefited from major investment by many large multi-national corporations into high tech industry. These large organisations are attracted by government subsidies and the skilled workforce in Northern Ireland.

hands up who can see the problem with this idea!!??

Killer Pigeon

punchdrunk wrote: »

the country is on it's knees,NI isn't exactly "resource rich"

In fairness, they do have good farming land, gombeens would thrive there.

Manach

It would be prudent of Labour to have a some policy, at least setting out their NI position in that
- that Unification is an issue with a small segment of the population
- the land border that is shared impacts on security issue.
- NI is a prime economic trading partner.

Kev_ps3

punchdrunk wrote: »

I love the usual Nationalist line of "it's our land,if you were a real irishman sure you'd agree"


eh lets have a wee look,here's what 30 seconds on wiki tells us about employment in NI

The Northern Ireland economy is the smallest of the four economies making up the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland has traditionally had an industrial economy, most notably in shipbuilding, rope manufacture and textiles, but most heavy industry has since been replaced by services, primarily the public sector. Tourism also plays a big role in the local economy. More recently the economy has benefited from major investment by many large multi-national corporations into high tech industry. These large organisations are attracted by government subsidies and the skilled workforce in Northern Ireland.

hands up who can see the problem with this idea!!??

This coming from a guy who wants to join the British Army:rolleyes:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055915717
Why is this place so full of anti-Irish Unionists/British Army:rolleyes:

Killer Pigeon

Manach wrote: »

It would be prudent of Labour to have a some policy, at least setting out their NI position in that
- that Unification is an issue with a small segment of the population
- the land border that is shared impacts on security issue.
- NI is a prime economic trading partner.

All of the above aren't really issues at the moment.

Killer Pigeon

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

This coming from a guy who wants to join the British Army:rolleyes:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055915717
Why is this place so full of anti-Irish Unionists/British Army:rolleyes:

He probably wants to join the British Army because he'll get more action, experience and better training in it. I really don't see why unification and division based on borders should be an issue at the moment. We should consentrate on uniting the human race, not dividing it based on backward archaic nationalism.

LordSutch

CMACSAFF wrote: »

Does anybody know what Labour's official position on Irish unification is? I cant find it on their website and they seem very vague on the North other than support for the Good Friday Agreement etc..

There's your answer.

Kev_ps3

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He probably wants to join the British Army because he'll get more action, experience and better training in it.

Then why doesnt he join the American Army? They are even better kitted out and invade even more country's. By your logic all men who are from small countrys should join the armys of larger countires because they'll get better training. Im sure that idea is beyond laughable in any other county but here. I wonder why..

bobbysands81

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He probably wants to join the British Army because he'll get more action, experience and better training in it.

So murder is a career move now is it?

"get more action"? - Jesus Christ... sitting at a monitor pressing a button that kills 20 Afghan civilians is your idea of "action"?

Killer Pigeon

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So murder is a career move now is it?

"get more action"? - Jesus Christ... sitting at a monitor pressing a button that kills 20 Afghan civilians is your idea of "action"?

Well it's better than joining the IRA and planting car bombs around in small country towns and blowing up everything in sight. The British Army do a lot of relief work.

punchdrunk

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

This coming from a guy who wants to join the British Army:rolleyes:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055915717
Why is this place so full of anti-Irish Unionists/British Army:rolleyes:

eh??? can't you read! "related to people joining the BA"
I never said I was!!

at the time there was alot of posters here asking about how do they join the BA as the Irish army had a recruiting ban,I was merely pointing them to the info the wished to find

my Father,two uncles and great grandfather (civil war) have all served their country with pride and distinction so don't ever call me anti-Irish

Kev_ps3

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well it's better than joining the IRA and planting car bombs around in small country towns and blowing up everything in sight. The British Army do a lot of relief work.

The IRA decommissioned in case you didnt notice.

bobbysands81

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well it's better than joining the IRA and planting car bombs around in small country towns and blowing up everything in sight. The British Army do a lot of relief work.

If the Brits didn't go round invading foreign coutries then they wouldn't come up against folk defending their country.

Take away the reason for war and you take away war.

Kev_ps3

punchdrunk wrote: »

eh??? can't you read! "related to people joining the BA"
I never said I was!!

at the time there was alot of posters here asking about how do they join the BA as the Irish army had a recruiting ban,I was merely pointing them to the info the wished to find

my Father,two uncles and great grandfather (civil war) have all served their country with pride and distinction so don't ever call me anti-Irish

Im just saying its no surprise that a guy who advertises the British Army and who is against Irish Unification have the same views.

punchdrunk

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The IRA decommissioned in case you didnt notice.

eh we still have "I can't believe it's not the IRA"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

Kev_ps3

punchdrunk wrote: »

eh we still have "I can't believe it's not the IRA"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Irish_Republican_Army

you said the IRA.

Killer Pigeon

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Then why doesnt he join the American Army? They are even better kitted out and invade even more country's. By your logic all men who are from small countrys should join the armys of larger countires because they'll get better training. Im sure that idea is beyond laughable in any other county but here. I wonder why..

I can't speak for him but maybe because if he wanted to join the British army he would only have to cross the border to train while if he wanted to join the American army he would probably have to travel 3,000 km. It would be good though to join a bigger army to train and get experience, then after many years you could come home, join the Irish Army and help train Irish soldiers to a very high standard based on what you learned. I believe many Irish soldiers went to the US a number years ago to get training, they then transfered what they'd learned to other Irish soldiers here.

punchdrunk

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

you said the IRA.

read the thread again :rolleyes:
KP said it,not me!

Killer Pigeon

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The IRA decommissioned in case you didnt notice.

Which IRA? Besides they still have blood on their hands.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Take away the reason for war and you take away war.

We have this thing called the EU now.

hibernica

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

eh no, us real Irish want our land back thank you very much.

It's not our land. It never has been. And fingers crossed it never will be.

The simple fact is that we've got nothing in common with the people of Northern Ireland, regardless of whether they consider themselves to be Nationalists or Unionists. We've got far more in common with the English, the Scots and the Welsh who, like us, have lived all their lives in a relatively stable, non-sectarian society and therefore don't have the religious or national hang ups that Northerners have.

As someone who classes himself as one of the 'real Irish' I can confirm that the real Irish have a low opinion of anybody who wants to foist Northern Ireland and all its problems on to our country.

bobbysands81

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

We have this thing called the EU now.

Wow, you won that argument!

What the hell has the EU got to do with Brits traversing the globe killing innocent people for no reason than being global oil terrorists?

Kev_ps3

hibernica wrote: »

It's not our land. It never has been. And fingers crossed it never will be.

The simple fact is that we've got nothing in common with the people of Northern Ireland, regardless of whether they consider themselves to be Nationalists or Unionists. We've got far more in common with the English, the Scots and the Welsh who, like us, have lived all their lives in a relatively stable, non-sectarian society and therefore don't have the religious or national hang ups that Northerners have.

As someone who classes himself as one of the 'real Irish' I can confirm that the real Irish have a low opinion of anybody who wants to foist Northern Ireland and all its problems on to our country.

you created a new account just to post this rubbish?

eoinoleary

hibernica wrote: »

It's not our land. It never has been. And fingers crossed it never will be.

The simple fact is that we've got nothing in common with the people of Northern Ireland, regardless of whether they consider themselves to be Nationalists or Unionists. We've got far more in common with the English, the Scots and the Welsh who, like us, have lived all their lives in a relatively stable, non-sectarian society and therefore don't have the religious or national hang ups that Northerners have.

As someone who classes himself as one of the 'real Irish' I can confirm that the real Irish have a low opinion of anybody who wants to foist Northern Ireland and all its problems on to our country.

i dont even know where to begin with this quote....

my god man have you any understanding of this countries history as regards n.ire at all....id sincerly doubt it....unbelievable

SamuelFox

Labour don't do gombeen politics.

Mate, with respect, you must be out of your tree! Labour invented gombeen politics! Did you ever hear of Baltinglass post office? What about all the 180 degree policy changes over the years? What about the Stickies take over in the 1990s? What about the last two leaders being career politicians from college onwards? If you want an example of a text book gombeen party dedicated to power at any cost by assuaging vested interests then the Labour Party is for you.

Killer Pigeon

SamuelFox wrote: »

Mate, with respect, you must be out of your tree! Labour invented gombeen politics! Did you ever hear of Baltinglass post office? What about all the 180 degree policy changes over the years? What about the Stickies take over in the 1990s? What about the last two leaders being career politicians from college onwards? If you want an example of a text book gombeen party dedicated to power at any cost by assuaging vested interests then the Labour Party is for you.

Less though than FG and FF.

And what does this have to do with NI?

punchdrunk

agreed leaving Labour and the IRA asside

how do "re-unionists" propose we deal with the following

the public sector workforce of 30% of there total population,currently they work for ukgov...what will we get them to do? create more quangos to fill?

over 40k unemployed i.e another 10% added to our unemployment figure (and what's worse,40k people who have never payed the republic tax)

the 5000million sterling in subsidy that NI receives,20% of NI's economic output

companies already based in NI paying totally different rates,corporate taxes & dealing with markets in a totally different currency

Thundercats Ho

Did we not give up our claims to the North under the GFA?
My memory is a little sketchy on this.

luckyfrank

punchdrunk wrote: »

agreed leaving Labour and the IRA asside

how do "re-unionists" propose we deal with the following

the public sector workforce of 30% of there total population,currently they work for ukgov...what will we get them to do? create more quangos to fill?

over 40k unemployed i.e another 10% added to our unemployment figure (and what's worse,40k people who have never payed the republic tax)

the 5000million sterling in subsidy that NI receives,20% of NI's economic output

companies already based in NI paying totally different rates,corporate taxes & dealing with markets in a totally different currency

The northern ireland question will not be an issue until there is a nationalist majority in 50 60 or 70 years time, there is no way we could incorparate the north at the moment so in 70 years time we'll be half way to paying off our banking debt we might be in a better position financially

That said fianna fail deserve a round of applause they have single handedly killed off any chance of a UI by scuttling our economy

LordSutch

luckyfrank wrote: »

That said fianna fail deserve a round of applause they have single handedly killed off any chance of a UI by scuttling our economy

Single handedly?

I suspect that Adams & the IRA single handedly 'killed off' any chance of wooing Unionists into our Republican parlour.

RetroBate

CMACSAFF wrote: »

Does anybody know what Labour's official position on Irish unification is?

I can tell you what I understand to be Labour's position on Irish Unification.

They are in favour if the population of N. Ireland freely express a desire to join a United Ireland.

My position is that Ireland was united and I always find it curious that the question of re-unification is always posed in terms of N. Ireland joining the Republic of Ireland rather than the other way round.

Whatever the stated position of FF it seems judging from their actions that they favour encouraging the people of The Republic to freely express a desire to rejoin N. Ireland in a United Ireland.

SamuelFox

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Less though than FG and FF.

Maybe, maybe not. The point is that Labour sell themselves as a party of principle rather than the gombeenism of the rest and that is inaccurate.

CMACSAFF

I maybe should have clarified that first post.

I do not expect any Irish party (SF excepted of course) to actively pursue unification but as a northern nationalist I would expect any party I vote for to believe that a united Ireland is, at some point, the desired outcome.

As I say I know there are more pressing matters and I dont expect it to feature in any way in the electoral debate but I just want in stated in much the same way that FF have it. Maybe I am just looking for a bit of lip-service but its important to me.

It would take a particularly cold day in hell before I vote SF and the failure to vote FF needs no explanation. So I would like to vote Labour but just cant find a specific policy on the North on their web site.

CMACSAFF

I can tell you what I understand to be Labour's position on Irish Unification.

They are in favour if the population of N. Ireland freely express a desire to join a United Ireland.

RetroBate missed your post - their web site says they are fully behind the GFA but it says nothing about what the party's stance on unifcation is. There is a bit of a difference.

Killer Pigeon

CMACSAFF wrote: »

I maybe should have clarified that first post.

I do not expect any Irish party (SF excepted of course) to actively pursue unification but as a northern nationalist I would expect any party I vote for to believe that a united Ireland is, at some point, the desired outcome.

As I say I know there are more pressing matters and I dont expect it to feature in any way in the electoral debate but I just want in stated in much the same way that FF have it. Maybe I am just looking for a bit of lip-service but its important to me.

It would take a particularly cold day in hell before I vote SF and the failure to vote FF needs no explanation. So I would like to vote Labour but just cant find a specific policy on the North on their web site.

In the Labour Party consitution:

The Labour Party upholds the right of all of the people on the island of Ireland to evolve their relations with one another through the operation of the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement endorsed by all of the people of the island. Within this context the Labour Party believes that the aspirations of working people are best addressed on an all-Ireland basis and will work for deeper all-Ireland co-operation on economic, social, cultural and environmental issues

http://www.labour.ie/party/constitution.html

CMACSAFF

Cheers for that - not exactly explicit is it. All Ireland co-operation is not unification.

So there is no explicit reference to unification being the desired outcome just co-operation north and south.

Not enough - will have to re-assess my options.

Cheers!

RetroBate

CMACSAFF wrote: »

RetroBate missed your post - their web site says they are fully behind the GFA but it says nothing about what the party's stance on unifcation is. There is a bit of a difference.

Doesn't the GFA say that Ireland should remain divided as long as a majority in N. Ireland support N. Ireland remaining in the U.K. and that when a majority in N. Ireland support joining with The Republic that that should happen.

I'm open to correction on the above but if I'm right about the GFA then if the Labour Party website says "they are fully behind the GFA" then I would take from that the following:

They are against it at present but if and when a majority in NI freely express a desire to join the Irish Republic then they will be in favour of unification.

CMACSAFF

They are against it at present but if and when a majority in NI freely express a desire to join the Irish Republic then they will be in favour of unification.

I appreciate what your saying but you can support the GFA but also hold the position that unification is desirable. At present what Labour seem to be saying is that they are non-committal beyond supporting the wishes of the majority.

Thats fair enough but that would also seem to me to indicate that they would not actively encourage one outcome over another. Thats the part I would have a problem with - any party I vote for should have a clear idea which outcome, namely a united Ireland, they would prefer and state it.

punchdrunk

does is really matter? I mean they could come out and say they are fully supporting Ireland putting a man on the moon but it's irrelevant! it's not going to happen during this government's lifetime and almost definitely won't happen in your lifetime either

ixtlan

RetroBate wrote: »

My position is that Ireland was united and I always find it curious that the question of re-unification is always posed in terms of N. Ireland joining the Republic of Ireland rather than the other way round.

I find this curious too. I'm not quite sure if we are on the same wavelength though. I mean that it's funny that everyone... all parties and the media... assumes that of course a majority in the Republic want a united Ireland. For the reason others have mentioned I'm not at all sure about that. Currently because of economic reasons, and in 50 years who knows how people will feel.

Personally I don't want a united Ireland until all the sectarian strife in the North is reduced to a level where the idea of voting for a party based on such a divide is laughable. When that happens, it may may that concepts such as nationalism maybe be much less important than now.

Ix.

pawrick

RetroBate wrote: »

My position is that Ireland was united and I always find it curious that the question of re-unification is always posed in terms of N. Ireland joining the Republic of Ireland rather than the other way round.

this would be funny, could you imagine the reaction from them up North! ok so lads we've decided that we've had enough of that whole being a Republic lark and are rejoining the UK, giz a hug!

we have enough problems at the moment we should focus on and both the Republic and the North would require a lot of time to merge properly seeing how much time we have spent separate. i'm not against the idea or in any great way for it but if it were to happen it has to be done right and not forced. We have seen what forcing things has caused so far up there.

nordisk celt83

CMACSAFF wrote: »

Does anybody know what Labour's official position on Irish unification is? I cant find it on their website and they seem very vague on the North other than support for the Good Friday Agreement etc..

I know FF have it stated as a political objective and am just wondering what Labour's position is.

Cheers!

The Labour Party aspires to a United Ireland... However, they believe this can only be obtained by democratic means.

To my mind, Labour policies are generally seen as progressive, and more liberal than other parties.
These progressive values and aims to create a more multi-faceted and accpeting society are perhaps the most likely to ease Unionist conscience about the prospect of a United Ireland.

Micheal Martin recently stated that he didn't favour a United Ireland politically or geographically, and only hoped for a United People. He has also questioned Gerry Adams about his right to interfere in Southern politics, so FF policy on this issue is not quite as clear cut as it once was!!!

Regardless, all parties believe it should only come about by democratic means!!!

CMACSAFF

does is really matter? I mean they could come out and say they are fully supporting Ireland putting a man on the moon but it's irrelevant! it's not going to happen during this government's lifetime and almost definitely won't happen in your lifetime either

Your clearly not from the North

I can see how it seems irrelevant to you and to be honest if I was you I would probably view it the same way.

But I'm not and I don't - I'm from a part of the island which is currently part of the UK but I in no way feel British. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those that do see themselves in that context, their view is as valid as mine, its just that I don't. I don't see partition as a natural state for the island to be in either - currently the loyalties of the Protestant people are to the British mainland but this hasn't always been the case either.

The barriers to a united Ireland are numerous as pointed out and it is very possible I wont see a united island in my lifetime if ever. I appreciate that many in the South see themselves as being disconnected from the North although I find that sad (I would have to admit that northern nationalists at times contribute to this). The economics don't make sense and currently its hard to see a timeframe were they would. And the only united Ireland worth having is one were all sides agreed that it was in their best interests - currently a near impossibility in itself.

That said I will always believe in it and will not vote for any party that doesn't.

punchdrunk

CMACSAFF wrote: »

Your clearly not from the North

I can see how it seems irrelevant to you and to be honest if I was you I would probably view it the same way.

But I'm not and I don't - I'm from a part of the island which is currently part of the UK but I in no way feel British. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those that do see themselves in that context, their view is as valid as mine, its just that I don't. I don't see partition as a natural state for the island to be in either - currently the loyalties of the Protestant people are to the British mainland but this hasn't always been the case either.

The barriers to a united Ireland are numerous as pointed out and it is very possible I wont see a united island in my lifetime if ever. I appreciate that many in the South see themselves as being disconnected from the North although I find that sad (I would have to admit that northern nationalists at times contribute to this). The economics don't make sense and currently its hard to see a timeframe were they would. And the only united Ireland worth having is one were all sides agreed that it was in their best interests - currently a near impossibility in itself.

That said I will always believe in it and will not vote for any party that doesn't.

that's probably the most rational argument I've ever read by somebody from the North for reunification,balanced and insightful
fair play mate and I can definitely see where your coming from

personally as a Dub,I'd love for Ireland to be one big happy country
clean,safe,with good job prospects for everyone
my big worry would be a unionist campaign against the south if they had a united Ireland forced onto them,and further damage to our already shambolic economy

but if someday we can peacefully bring the two together,them I'm all for it

gcgirl

Seriously people we're fairly ****ed as it is :-(

RetroBate

CMACSAFF wrote: »

That said I will always believe in it and will not vote for any party that doesn't.

I wouldn't put much store by what parties say they believe in especially something like a united Ireland where they know they will more than likely will never have to deliver.

Good reasonable post though and I can appreciate where you are coming from. Please excuse the pun.