Abortion - will it affect how you vote?

Canvasser

I think from talking to people on the doorsteps it is quite big issue. The Labour party in particular seem quite flaky on the issue. I'm not sure I could ever transfer to a pro-abortion party to be honest.

Gilmore makes respect for life the election issue


The Prolife Campaign has said that the Labour Party's policy on abortion, if put into law, "would be abortion on demand in this country." This appears to be correct, and it is a truly horrific prospect.

The deliberate killing of even one unborn child, much less an "open season" all year round, is horrific. What is happening to us as a people if we are not appalled at the possibility of such slaughter?

The issue here is not the life or health of women. Indeed, the evidence is mounting, for those who want to see it, that the killing of an unborn child is a spiritual, psychological and often a physical disaster for his or her mother.

But do we need scientific research to convince us of that? Would common sense and basic humanity alone not convince us?

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is a self-professed unbeliever. That must profoundly affect his understanding of the value, the sacredness, of each human life. It must also affect his understanding of good and evil.

No one today can have any doubt about the humanity of the child in the womb, a child whose heart is beating a mere 20 days after conception. We know that abortion is the killing of an innocent child in the first stages of life. We know that.

Mr Gilmore has made clear what his policy in this area will be if he gets into government. He has made the legalised killing of the unborn a major issue in the coming election. He has made it clear that he will regard a vote for the Labour party as a vote for its abortion policy. We now know that.

No Catholic or other believer who recognises the sacredness of life can ignore this when he or she comes to vote. It is a grave matter of conscience. We cannot vote for this policy and then wash our hands of the terrible evil it may bring.

http://www.alive.ie/editorsjottings.php#editorsjottings1

Mike 1972

Welcome to AH. Im sure your ideas will be well recieved around here and prove most popular :pac:

phasers

fcuking catholic propaganda

o1s1n

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

messymess

It's a big issue and generally people have very passionate opinions on it. But the country is a ****ing heap in case anyone hasn't noticed. There's bigger fish to fry here.

Cheap Thrills!

huh ? wordy wordy word words...

Micky Dolenz

It won't effect how I vote.

Canis Lupus

FREE ABORTIONS FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Nodin

...from Alive, that guardian against the Gay under the Bed. Whats a gay doing under the bed? No idea, but Alive is there to guard against them.

They seemed at pains to point out that poor Harte one was religous. Seeing as she lived a blameless life and got killed on her honeymoon, I wouldn't have thought that was too great an advert, meself.

Cybertron85

I'd never choose to abort a pregnancy with my girlfriend/wife, but we have to be pro-choice.

ilovesleep

It wont effect how i vote. There is no guarantee if labour get in that abortion will be legalised. they will put it to a referendum and allow people to decide then.

pragmatic1

I think they should be mandatory. There should be special offers like book an abortion today and get 50% off your next purchase at boots.

Nodin

Canis Lupus wrote: »

FREE ABORTIONS FOR EVERYONE!!!!

The state can't afford that, given the times we're in.






However leaflets will be issued to every household showing how to do the procedure with a few anadin, a coathanger and half a bottle of whiskey.

Canis Lupus

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I think they should be mandatory. There should be special offers like book an abortion today and get 50% off your next purchase at boots.

3 for 1 offers etc

smk89

Awww does the foetal heart beat 20 days into pregnancy.
I'm going to use that totally irrelevant point to justify my belief which breaks the declaration of human rights.

blubloblu

The constitution protects the right of life of the unborn, except in case the life of the mother is in danger. I think most pro-life people accept that.
If labour or whoever want to make abortion available on demand, they'd have to have a referendum. That would be your opportunity to make your vote count on the issue, this election should be about the running of the country for the next four years.

Noodleworm

ugh.
The title is pro-choice, not pro abortion. Difference being, they know abortion is a horrible thing.

I personally think abortion is a horrible, sad, traumatising thing.
But I'd still legalise it.

Their not telling us women to have them, merely giving us the option.
MAking abortion illegal in Ireland does not stop women getting them, its legal for doctors to give information, legal to go to england and many clinics in the UK have special programs in place to help Irish women.
Legalising it, would just help the women who have made this hard decision get through the trauma without having to leave the country for it.
If its going to be done, getting it done sooner is better for everyone involved, including the fetus.

yawnstretch

Sorry guys, anything that erodes the integrity of the human life is unacceptable.

Of course if the mother's life is in danger she should have the choice, but abortion on demand is just wrong.

Gottalovegreys

"Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is a self-professed unbeliever. That must profoundly affect his understanding of the value, the sacredness, of each human life. It must also affect his understanding of good and evil."

BAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

So everyone who isn't catholic/religious therefore is morally inept? Wow, just don't know where to fupping start with that one.

On second thoughts, what a waste of 6 nations build up time it would be.

Aldebaran

A non-issue for me in this election.

Manach

Issue for me.

Max Power1

Noodleworm wrote: »

ugh.
The title is pro-choice, not pro abortion. Difference being, they know abortion is a horrible thing.

I personally think abortion is a horrible, sad, traumatising thing.
But I'd still legalise it.
.

+1

yawnstretch wrote: »

Sorry guys, anything that erodes the integrity of the human life is unacceptable.

Of course if the mother's life is in danger she should have the choice, but abortion on demand is just wrong.

So because you think something is wrong, many women have to travel to england (a process involving considerable un-necessary anguish) for an abortion.

I look forward to our little country in 20-30 years time when we can look back and laugh at the regressive backwards catholic attitudes that we have now.

Up de Barrs

As a guy I am pro choice, I believe everybody has a right to privacy and a woman should have a right to have an abortion if that is what she feels is best for her. A woman shouldn't have to prove that her circumstances fit neatly in to whatever circumstances (danger to her life or health) that the state deems are acceptable grounds for a termination.

It is good that Labour are moving to a pro choice postion (I wouldnt say they are entirely there yet), I think this reflects the views of a huge section of the electorate particularly younger liberal voters.

I would be interested in hearing the party's proposals to reduce the need for abortion. Proper sex education (not religious indoctrination), cheaper, better access to contraception, making the morning after pill available over the counter and counselling support will do far more to reduce abortion that some aspirations in the constitutions. Countries like Sweden and Netherlands with liberal abortion laws have low and falling rates of abortion because the take a practical approach to dealing with a difficuly social issue.

WindSock

As much as I would like to see abortion legalised in this country, it is not a priority on how I will vote, I am not going to dismiss a candidate if I think they would do an ok job just because we don't see eye to eye on this issue.
I would like to ask any canvassers that come to my door though to watch them squirm, sadly none have called in yet.

Herb Powell

Abortion-will it affect your life in any way?

CoalBucket

Ok this is already running in another thread in the politics forum.

The Facts are this. The Labour partys official policy on this matter is to implement the constitutional ammendment voted for by referendum.

The referendum was in 1983 (the 8th amendment), which passed 67% to 33%.

In 1992, the supreme court ruled that a woman had a right to an abortion under Article 40.3.3 (inserted by the 8th amendment) if there was "a real and substantial risk" to her life. This included if the risk was the possibility of suicide.

The OP and his source are clearly interpreting the Labour position incorrectly and attempting in an undignified way to raise the abortion issue for political purposes.

The OP is a member of Fogra Fianna Fail
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70626708#post70626708 ,the op is not only content with the economy being back in the 1980s but also wants to drag a moral discussion on abortion back there too.

baltimore sun

Men having an opinion on abortion is akin to dung beetles having opinions on the social rights of lemurs.
It's a woman's body only she should decide...anyway, liverpool's only a short boat trip/flight away.

dilbert2

Canvasser wrote: »

I think from talking to people on the doorsteps it is quite big issue. The Labour party in particular seem quite flaky on the issue. I'm not sure I could ever transfer to a pro-abortion party to be honest.

Well the first thing to ask is this, why is it even a political issue in the first place? If science and medicine can scientifically back up the claim that an embryo is indeed not a human life, and that no actual life is been lost in the process of abortion - then who's business is it apart from the individual woman, and her doctor?

This is just another case of catholic fanatics trying to impose their medieval worldview and way of life on the rest of us. It is terrible that young women have to take a plane to England or the Continent to get an abortion carried out thanks to our backward, superstitious political and religious structure.

And by way the writers for Alive are fruitier than a barmbrack, actually come to think of it I had no intention of voting for Labour - but I might consider it now thanks to Alive. Ironic really.

whiteonion

According to freakonomics legalisation of abortion would reduce crime. I would welcome this. I personally think it would be good if the unemployable classes didn't reproduce.

4zn76tysfajdxp

I'm very much against the legalisation on abortion. I'd prefer to remain in the tax-free bracket as I illicitly perform backstreet terminations in my squalid one-bedroomed flat, than have to waste money on luxuries like an office or gloves.

MagicSean

I'd rather they gave out free contraception than legalise abortion.

smk89

k_mac wrote: »

I'd rather they gave out free contraception than legalise abortion.

Contraception isn't 100% effective. What about those fish that escape the net? if you pardon the pun.
Shrug your shoulders and tell them its not your problem?

Max Power1

baltimore sun wrote: »

Men having an opinion on abortion is akin to dung beetles having opinions on the social rights of lemurs.
It's a woman's body only she should decide...anyway, liverpool's only a short boat trip/flight away.

So when a woman wants maintenance payments she's all "it takes two to tango" but yet when it involves aborting the foetus its all "womens body" etc :rolleyes:

Its one way or the other you cant have both

Napper Hawkins

Yep, that's a Labour vote for me now, thanks for that OP.

Pappacharlie

Abortion will not affect the way I vote!!

Mike 1972

baltimore sun wrote: »

Men having an opinion on abortion is akin to dung beetles having opinions on the social rights of lemurs. It's a woman's body only she should decide.

OK lets restrict the vote in referendum No 27 on Abortion in Ireland to Women and Foetuses ?

KnifeWRENCH

It's an issue for me in so far as I'm more likely to vote for a pro-choice party. And a Conservative, Catholic, gay-bashing and unintentionally hilarious rag like Alive certainly won't make me feel bad about that.

It's not affecting how I vote because I'm not voting based on the single issue of abortion; that would just be stupid. But Labour has the best policy on the issue as far as I'm concerned, and I'm voting for them anyway just because they're the least objectionable alternative out there at the moment, so this is just a bonus, I guess.

WindSock

Max Power1 wrote: »

So when a woman wants maintenance payments she's all "it takes two to tango" but yet when it involves aborting the foetus its all "womens body" etc :rolleyes:

Its one way or the other you cant have both

Maintenence payments are for the child already born, not for the woman who gave birth to and is stuck bringing it up.

PrincessLola

Max Power1 wrote: »

So when a woman wants maintenance payments she's all "it takes two to tango" but yet when it involves aborting the foetus its all "womens body" etc :rolleyes:

Its one way or the other you cant have both

Women carry the baby and have to squeeze it out a tiny hole, tbh they should get more say in the issue. Men have to pay maintenance, but if they want they can feck off and never have to say two words to their kid again. (not saying most men do this, but some do) its still seen as primarily the women's responsibility to actually raise the child. (awaits angry flames)

Anyway it won't be touched all the parties are to wussy to bring up abortion.

minidazzler

baltimore sun wrote: »

Men having an opinion on abortion is akin to dung beetles having opinions on the social rights of lemurs.
It's a woman's body only she should decide...anyway, liverpool's only a short boat trip/flight away.

Realistically the choice should be discussed by both partners. It's not fair to force a child on a guy who doesn't want it.

I'm not saying a woman can't make her own decision on it, but she should find out the guys opinion.

I am quite pro-choice, but any link to that alive.ie tripe makes me laugh.

yawnstretch

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

So because you think something is wrong, many women have to travel to england (a process involving considerable un-necessary anguish) for an abortion.

I look forward to our little country in 20-30 years time when we can look back and laugh at the regressive backwards catholic attitudes that we have now.

The anguish is necessary to prevent wanton destruction of defenseless humans - you're probably pro-euthanasia too?

Yes, it's a hardship. The alternative is gradually taking away a humans right to life because it inconveniences someone with more power.

Killing is wrong - you don't have to be religious to realise that I hope!

thenutflush

Abortion is a subject that confuses me, because my natural instinct is to find it completely abhorrent, but everyone nowadays seems to take a nonchalent attitude of "legalise it and let all women have abortions whenever they want"...I must be wrong to be against it under circumstances when the mother or childs life isn't in danger.

I'm for the availability of euthansia though, when somebody has a good reason for wanting to end their life, incurable depression included

Mr. Incognito

I just got a life institute handbook in through my door which was riddled with legal inaccuracies, typos and condecending stupidity.

I could care less.

Legalise it and stop making stigmatising women that are traveling in their thousands at night just so some catholic minorities can sleep at night.

smegmar

Noodleworm wrote: »

ugh.
The title is pro-choice, not pro abortion. Difference being, they know abortion is a horrible thing.

exactly right, hide a bad thing under a different good sounding name is the first sign that you know it's a horrible thing.

Needleworm wrote: »

If its going to be done, getting it done sooner is better for everyone involved, including the fetus.

No i'm sorry under no circumstances is being dead better for the baby. granted it could have a ****ty childhood but at least give it the chance that something better could happen. This is after all a persons life we're talking about, and don't let the pro abortion campaigners tell you it's anything less than a human life there killing.

bronte

yawnstretch wrote: »

Killing is wrong - you don't have to be religious to realise that I hope!

You're a level 5 vegan I assume?

Who the hell takes alive! seriously?! It's hilarious!

Canvasser

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

So because you think something is wrong, many women have to travel to england (a process involving considerable un-necessary anguish) for an abortion.

I look forward to our little country in 20-30 years time when we can look back and laugh at the regressive backwards catholic attitudes that we have now.

I really don't see the problem with grabbing a 20 euro ryanair flight to london, liverpool or glasgow if a woman really wants a abortion.

If labour gets in there'll be abortion clinics on every 2nd street within a few years. Most irish people are happy with the status quo I reckon. Asking them to grab a cheap ryanair flight if they want to commit the sin of abortion is really not that much to ask I think.

dilbert2

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

And a Conservative, Catholic, gay-bashing and unintentionally hilarious rag like Alive certainly won't make me feel bad about that.

Ah I guess we shouldn't be too harsh on them, for all we know “Alive!” could in fact be nothing more than a prank publication set up by “non-believers” to make catholic stalwarts look like deranged idiots. If this is the case, they are doing a bang up job!

Still though, I actually like Alive! (strangely enough) from one perspective - whatever they seek to happen or at least influence happening, in 90% of cases the opposite will happen. So that when some foaming at the mouth fanatic or Legion of Mary granny preaches against voting for labour - it will probably have the opposite effect in making Labour look like a party of sanity and logic to a lot of people, and hence get them more votes. Don’t forget this yoke is shoved in people’s letter boxes, so it’s not as if people who get it agree with anything it says.

It is hilarious, i'm not taking away from that - but it is the literary equivalent of Homer Simpson given that it probably shoots itself in the foot more often than not and can't see that some it's articles are in fact probably self-defeating and counter-productive to their cause. Then again, logical thinking was never a strong area for catholic fundamentalists and other such loonies.

KnifeWRENCH

smegmar wrote: »

exactly right, hide a bad thing under a different good sounding name is the first sign that you know it's a horrible thing.

And Pro-Life is certainly much better sounding than Anti-Choice or Anti-Womens' Rights, which are both much more accurate imo.

minidazzler

yawnstretch wrote: »

The anguish is necessary to prevent wanton destruction of defenseless humans - you're probably pro-euthanasia too?

Yes, it's a hardship. The alternative is gradually taking away a humans right to life because it inconveniences someone with more power.

Killing is wrong - you don't have to be religious to realise that I hope!

OK I'll bite. Why should a woman give birth to and raise something she doesn't want. I'm not saying you should abort a foetus when it can survive outside the womb, but at the same time, Abortions should be available up to a certain point, if a person didn't make their mind up by then they should have the child and give it up to adoption or state care.

Also, I am pro-euthanasia, I think the young are the future in asia.....but really, if someone wants to die and chooses that path but can't fulfill it themselves then they should be allowed to, even with help.

Killing is not always wrong, there are many scenario's where it is perfectly justified. Murder is wrong.

Max Power1

yawnstretch wrote: »

The anguish is necessary to prevent wanton destruction of defenseless humans - you're probably pro-euthanasia too?

Yes, it's a hardship. The alternative is gradually taking away a humans right to life because it inconveniences someone with more power.

Killing is wrong - you don't have to be religious to realise that I hope!

Its not killing anyway, its terminating a possible life. Similar to the MAP (However that is not an abortifacient). An 8 week old (for example) foetus cannot survive on its own.

PrincessLola wrote: »

Women carry the baby and have to squeeze it out a tiny hole, tbh they should get more say in the issue. Men have to pay maintenance, but if they want they can feck off and never have to say two words to their kid again. (not saying most men do this, but some do) its still seen as primarily the women's responsibility to actually raise the child. (awaits angry flames)

Anyway it won't be touched all the parties are to wussy to bring up abortion.

It takes two parties to create a foetus, why does one get the universal opinion while the other will be expected to pay for it and not have any input into the decision.

WindSock

Canvasser wrote: »

I really don't see the problem with grabbing a 20 euro ryanair flight to london, liverpool or glasgow if a woman really wants a abortion.

You would if you were that woman.

If labour gets in there'll be abortion clinics on every 2nd street within a few years. Most irish people are happy with the status quo I reckon. Asking them to grab a cheap ryanair flight if they want to commit the sin of abortion is really not that much to ask I think.

Oh yeah, I can see one popping up beside every pub in every town in the country.