Dublin "Educate Together" schools

mambo

Has anyone any experiences/opinions on any of the Educate Together / multi-denominational schools in Dublin, especially the southside, in terms of:

* quality of teaching
* admission policies (which seem to differ somewhat)
* school facilities/buildings
* etc.

There's general info on their websites, but I don't know anyone who has sent their child to any of them, so have no feedback on them to go on, hence my asking.

Also, are there any particular Catholic schools that a non-Catholic child would be more likely to get into?

Feel free to PM me instead of posting, if you prefer.

byhookorbycrook

If you post the names of particular schools you might get a better response.I'd also suggest you ring individual schools to check their enrolement policies, e.g. first come ,first served may not be of much use to you if the child were now 4.

mambo

Well, the Educate Together schools on the southside are:

Griffith Barracks Multi-Denominational School
Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School
Rathfarnham Educate Together N.S.
Monkstown Educate Together National School
Dalkey School Project

Spook_ie

Hi, no experiences of Southside Educate Together schools, but both our children have been in the Donabate Educate together school. I cannot sing their praises highly enough.

D4RK ONION

As for "quality of teaching", all teachers are trained equally, so you can expect the same variety in style and quality as you would in any school in the country.

breadandjam

Sorry no experience of ET schools on the South Side but my daughter goes to the one in Glasnevin and I'm very happy with it.

D4RK ONION wrote: »

As for "quality of teaching", all teachers are trained equally, so you can expect the same variety in style and quality as you would in any school in the country.

I think that the quality of teaching in ET schools is enhanced by the lack of formality between the pupils and the teachers. Principals, Pupils and teachers call each other by their first names making teachers more approachable and I think it makes learning easier. There's less of a "them and us" feeling in the school. I've worked in several ordinary schools as a visiting artist and the atmosphere is totally different

byhookorbycrook

Bit of a generalisation there.tbh. Our pupils (Gaelscoil) call all the teachers Múinteóir whatever and it is not a formal title or lack thereof that builds a relationship with the child. Every school is different and I could not say every whatever type of school is fantastic.

mambo

mambo wrote: »

Rathfarnham Educate Together N.S.

My son did his primary schooling there, and I'd have no hesitation in sending another child there.

TBH, a lot depends on where you live, and RETNS was near us. But we know a few non-Catholic kids in the area who went to one of the local Catholic schools, and there were no problems. Conversely, about half my son's classmates were Catholic, and went to the school because of its location.

Squirm

A number of my cousins went to the Dalkey School Project (as did Bono's children!) and they did extremely well there. At the time it was newly established and viewed as being very alternative. My cousins were considered lucky to have received a place. My aunts/uncles were very happy with the education they received there and the level of interaction between teachers and parents.

I have considered ET schools for my daughter and have her name on three seperate lists. They recommend you put your child's name on the lists shortly after they are born!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have asked around a good bit about ET's and I have found that National School teacher's do not seem to have too much praise for them. I am not sure if this is because they can see, from their experience, that they are not all they are made out to be...?? My SIL claims that they are "full of sh*t" and once you get over how pretentious they are, they're no better than a National School.............
Any teachers care to expand on this or throw in your two cents?!?!

byhookorbycrook

Squirm, as I already said there is no "type" of school that I could say is better than other, so not all ET schools/Catholic schools/COI schools are fantastic or indeed dreadful. A school takes its lead from the principal, so a good principal is essential.

huskerdu

Squirm wrote: »

I have asked around a good bit about ET's and I have found that National School teacher's do not seem to have too much praise for them. I am not sure if this is because they can see, from their experience, that they are not all they are made out to be...?? My SIL claims that they are "full of sh*t" and once you get over how pretentious they are, they're no better than a National School.............
Any teachers care to expand on this or throw in your two cents?!?!

When did anyone claim that ET schools are "better" than a religious run National Schools.
They get the same Gov funding, they teach the same syllabus. The only generalisation that you can make is that they don't do religious instruction.

If your SIL thinks that this is pretentious and full of Sh*t, then she is the one with the problem. How dare she claim that there is something wrong with wanting not having religious instruction in school !

This country is full of people who have no choice in the what religious ethos their children are educated in. Even the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin thinks this is not an acceptable situation.

Every school is different. I agree with a previous comment that good principal goes along way to making a good school.

Shikei

I'm a trainee teacher and did some work experience in Dalkey School Project, it's a lovely school with a really nice environment of inclusivity. Educate Together schools are very like any other national school (and actually in Dalkey they don't call the teachers by their first names) but instead of the religious curriculum they have an Ethical Education curriculum which covers things like world religions, taking care of the environment/earth, respecting others etc. Its a really good curriculum, and a lot of ET schools can arrange for kids to have religious instruction outside of school hours.

lala20

Hi there! Im a past pupil of RMDS -Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School,I am now a 2nd year University student. I think there is a much better vibe in ET schools (from what i've heard from my friends in catholic schools/gaelscoils etc) we always called our teachers ms... or mr... so I don't think thats the difference between ET schools and religious schools. Mixing religion with education in my opinion is wrong. We had religion class and we learn about the 5 main religions. It shocks me to this day how much more I know about religion then my friends who went to "religious schools". I knew more about Catholicism then all my friends leaving the Irish Catholic school down the road. One thing they aren't very mixed- the majority of kids in my class were catholic, some protestant and about 10 out of 30 of us were no-religion.
* quality of teaching- I felt it was superior-more open-minded, outside communion classes- not forcing children to repeat prayers daily
* admission policies (which seem to differ somewhat)- I have no idea I was a child- I am presuming it had a siblings policy
* school facilities/buildings-excellent won the "best building award in the UK" - we could use sports facilities in Mt. Pleasant tennis club opposite, with new extension- I see the play area is quite crowded. There is a lovely roof garden
* etc.

byhookorbycrook

Much better "vibe" is somewhat vague?Again,as I say, no one type of school can be said to be better than another, each school stands on its own merit.

winterlight

breadandjam wrote: »

Sorry no experience of ET schools on the South Side but my daughter goes to the one in Glasnevin and I'm very happy with it.


I think that the quality of teaching in ET schools is enhanced by the lack of formality between the pupils and the teachers. Principals, Pupils and teachers call each other by their first names making teachers more approachable and I think it makes learning easier. There's less of a "them and us" feeling in the school. I've worked in several ordinary schools as a visiting artist and the atmosphere is totally different

So the children know the teachers' first names. How on earth can this (perceived) lack of formality enhance the quality of teaching? That makes no sense at all. The teacher is either a good teacher or they're not.

I have worked as an artist/teacher in many Primary Schools in Ireland and London. When I was in London, it was very fashionable at the time for certain schools to allow children call staff by their 'first names.' The quality of my lessons did not change, depending on what children called me. In fact, I would definitely say that "the trendy-first-name" schools were inferior and undersubscribed. The Irish education system seems to copy UK trends; they are always about 5 years behind. There needs to be a certain level of respect to facilitate learning, especially when you're dealing with huge class numbers like we have in Ireland.

I think if the OP wants their child exempt from Religion, an educate together school is the way to go. But bear in mind that the teachers in Educate Together/Mainstream/ Gaeilscoil schools all have the same qualifications and are trained in the same way...

RibenaHead

winterlight wrote: »

So the children know the teachers' first names. How on earth can this (perceived) lack of formality enhance the quality of teaching? That makes no sense at all. The teacher is either a good teacher or they're not.

As explained above, the lack of formality leads to a more friendly learning environment where the children feel less different to their teachers and find it easier to confide in them.

Personally, I can see how a more relaxed atmosphere can lead to a better rapport between pupils and teachers but I also think that it can lead to a loss of respect for authority which is important for getting things done!

byhookorbycrook

We are a Gaelscoil, children call us Múinteóir Máire or whatever. I like it and it's a lot easier than Iníon Ní whoever or Bean uí whatsit for the children. Respect is not an issue, you either earn repect or you don't, nothing ot do with children calling you by your name or a title.

robindch

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Again,as I say, no one type of school can be said to be better than another, each school stands on its own merit.

In theory, that's quite right. In practice, I'm not so sure.

In a previous job, my own teacher-level-qualified missus spent time visiting schools in the Dublin area, during which time she got what she felt was a reliable, if somewhat superficial, feel for what many of them were like. In her experience, the ET schools had (a) a noticeably better atmosphere than non-ET schools and (b) a curriculum in which religion was studied in an inclusive way (viewing them as customs and stories), rather than in an exclusivist "us-vs-them/catholicism/whatever is true" way as some schools did (it varied a lot).

Our own kid is in the Dalkey School Project, as are the kids of some of our friends, and I can't recommend it highly enough based upon experience to date. It's the bright, friendly and airy opposite of everything that I recall from the three religiously-controlled primary schools I attended as a kid down the country.

byhookorbycrook

Schools have changed a lot since you were at primary school!!Whatever the ethos,most schools are now open, warm and friendly places,big change from my school days in the 70s.

byhookorbycrook

Schools have changed a lot since you were at primary school!!Whatever the ethos,most schools are now open, warm and friendly places,big change from my school days in the 70s.

star-bright

I don't think it matters what sort of school you send your child to as long as its the right fit for them, a place where they can learn and be happy.
Also I don't think it makes any difference at all what the children call their teacher, most of the time you just get called 'teacher' anyway!

Mammaitaliana

Hello,
I am looking for some objective information to help me decide which primary school in Dublin to send my child to.
My child is 3 years old and he will start school next september. My husband and I are from Italy and we've just moved in Dublin.
Only few days ago I discovered that in Ireland schools have a very long waiting list and that's the reason why you should enrol your kids at school asap! I tryed to enrol my kid in some non denominational schools, but I think it will be impossible to get a place there.
Is there anyone that can suggest a good local school in the area we live? We live in Dublin 9 (Collins Ave) so any school in Whitehall,Donnycarney, Artane or even Clontarf will be fine. Our problem is we still don't know very well the area and we don't know if the schools closest to us are good schools.
We prefer mixed schools and non-religious-oriented, but as last choice a catholic school if it is a good one will be great. I'm really looking for a sensible way to select which school would best suit my child.
Is anyone aware of any reasonably good, objective information for parents to help select a school?
All and any help, thoughts, opinions appreciated.

magneticimpulse

lala20 wrote: »

Hi there! Im a past pupil of RMDS -Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School,I am now a 2nd year University student. I think there is a much better vibe in ET schools (from what i've heard from my friends in catholic schools/gaelscoils etc) we always called our teachers ms... or mr... so I don't think thats the difference between ET schools and religious schools. Mixing religion with education in my opinion is wrong. We had religion class and we learn about the 5 main religions. It shocks me to this day how much more I know about religion then my friends who went to "religious schools". I knew more about Catholicism then all my friends leaving the Irish Catholic school down the road. One thing they aren't very mixed- the majority of kids in my class were catholic, some protestant and about 10 out of 30 of us were no-religion.
* quality of teaching- I felt it was superior-more open-minded, outside communion classes- not forcing children to repeat prayers daily
* admission policies (which seem to differ somewhat)- I have no idea I was a child- I am presuming it had a siblings policy
* school facilities/buildings-excellent won the "best building award in the UK" - we could use sports facilities in Mt. Pleasant tennis club opposite, with new extension- I see the play area is quite crowded. There is a lovely roof garden
* etc.

I'm confused, your ET school in Ranelagh won the best building award in the UK? Yet you suggest it is a really great school and they dont even know the correct country it is in?

At the end of the day, children will eventually go onto Secondary school and the all teenagers will eventually attend the same 3rd level Universities/Institutes regardless if you went to a ET or Catholic school. I think education in Ireland is pretty much the same standard no matter where you study.

Also you say that in ET you are still taught about different religions. You state that you knew more about being a Catholic then your friends. Does that not defeat the purpose of going to ET school?? Well that sounds no different to Religion in Catholic Secondary school...we barely spent time on the Catholic religion itself and spent more time learning about Jewish/Muslim/Buddist/Taoist/Hindu religions. So from what I hear it doesnt sound like a huge difference between the two.

magneticimpulse

magneticimpulse wrote: »

I'm confused, your ET school in Ranelagh won the best building award in the UK? Yet you suggest it is a really great school and they dont even know the correct country it is in?

Actually, the school didn't win - it was a runner-up.

The award is given by the Royal Institute of British Architects. The nominees have to be members of RIBA, but the buildings can be anywhere in the European Union. The prize is sometimes portrayed as the architectural version of the Booker Prize.

Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School made the shortlist for the prize in 1999 (I think). The Millennium Wing of the National Gallery of Ireland was runner-up a couple of years later, and the Dublin Spire was shortlisted about 6-7 years ago.

I think it's safe to say that both RIBA and lala20 are well aware that Ranelagh isn't in the United Kingdom.

magneticimpulse

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, the school didn't win - it was a runner-up.

The award is given by the Royal Institute of British Architects. The nominees have to be members of RIBA, but the buildings can be anywhere in the European Union. The prize is sometimes portrayed as the architectural version of the Booker Prize.

Ranelagh Multi-Denominational School made the shortlist for the prize in 1999 (I think). The Millennium Wing of the National Gallery of Ireland was runner-up a couple of years later, and the Dublin Spire was shortlisted about 6-7 years ago.

I think it's safe to say that both RIBA and lala20 are well aware that Ranelagh isn't in the United Kingdom.

Seems all very far fetched to me. The way the post was writen did suggest that the school was in the UK. You never know if people these days can actually tell the difference? (If they were French they might think Ireland is completely part of the UK...all my French friends are taught that all of Ireland is in UK etc).

Either way I do not see this as a sole reason as to attend a school. The content of the education is the most important thing and in Ireland that is pretty much a set standard.

What would worry me would be the standard of English in these schools. Irish people are more likely to go to a Catholic school in general. If there are only a select number of ET schools, then this might encourage a higher mix of foreign people who do not want to send their children to Catholic schools. This could potentially lower the overall standard of English within the school if the children are not all native speakers of English. I have actually heard this is an increasing problem is some schools around Dublin which have had a recent influx of non native English speaking children.

I say this as a person who spends alot of time speaking English with international people everyday. I notice myself, my level of English has been decreased as a result. Instead I find myself speaking "Globish"....an international version of English with a mix of verbs from different languages. If this effects my level of English, I would consider this as a deciding factor when sending my children to school...whether it would be Catholic/International/ET school.

shortemer

Mammaitaliana wrote: »

Only few days ago I discovered that in Ireland schools have a very long waiting list and that's the reason why you should enrol your kids at school asap! I tryed to enrol my kid in some non denominational schools, but I think it will be impossible to get a place there.
Is there anyone that can suggest a good local school in the area we live? We live in Dublin 9 (Collins Ave) so any school in Whitehall,Donnycarney, Artane or even Clontarf will be fine. Our problem is we still don't know very well the area and we don't know if the schools closest to us are good schools.

All and any help, thoughts, opinions appreciated.

You might try the Educate Together school in Belmayne - http://www.belmayne-etns.ie/. It opened more recently (2008) and takes 2 junior infant classes each year, so it's not as hard to get into as some of the older Educate Together schools. It's a great school with a nice mix of pupils from all over that area. Wouldn't be too hard to get to from Collins Avenue. (I live in Raheny and I'm going to put my son's name down there, as well as North Bay Educate Together).

magneticimpulse

magneticimpulse wrote: »

Seems all very far fetched to me.

That's grand, but beside the point. The Royal Institute of British Architects has an annual award open to architects that are members of the Institute. The designers of the Ranelagh school were members and were shortlisted for the prize.

It's simple. Honestly.

mambo

Seems simple to me too. What's "far fetched" about it?

byhookorbycrook

Ok, back on thread, awards or not!!

mambo

We have our first child on the way, and neither my wife our I are religious (we had a civil ceremony, though are from catholic backgrounds), and would like a non- or multi-denomiational school for our child.

We live in south Dublin (renting, no fixed location), and will probably still live somewhere in south Dublin when our child is of school age.

Four of the five Educate Together schools on the southside operate more-or-less a first-come first-served policy, with three of these allowing you to put your child on the waiting list once they are born. Another operates a similar policy, but you can only put your child down from their second birthday onwards. So putting our child down for these schools as soon as possible is a no-brainer, particular since there doesn't seem to be any fee for this.

I'm not sure there is any point in putting our child down immediately for specific Catholic schools as:

a) the child will not be baptised a catholic, and is therefore less likely into any particular school as they all seem to give preference to Catholic children
b) there are so many Catholic schools that we wouldn't know which to pick as we don't know where we will be living in 4-5 years time.
c) we'd prefer not to send our child to a Catholic school anyway, though we may be forced to
d) we may have to pay a fee to register with some schools(?)

Minister of Education Ruairi Quinn is pushing for half of Catholic schools to be moved to non-religious patronage (which will presumably also change the "ethos" of the school to not be a solely Catholic one), so we certainly hope that bears fruit in the next 4-5 years.

Another factor is the possible change in school enrolment policies proposed by the Dept of Education
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10876&sectionpage=12251&language=GA&link=link001&page=2&doc=53763
which including removing waiting lists, and giving preference to children living near a school. If these changes are pushed through in the next few years, then we can look at the schools (non-Catholic and Catholic) near us at the appropriate time and choose then which to apply to. But Catholic schools will probably still be allowed give preference to Catholic children (even if non-Catholic kids live next door to the school, and are top of the list in terms of proximity?).

Anyone else in a similar position got any thoughts / suggestions ?

byhookorbycrook

Our school is Catholic and we do not give preference to Catholics, it's siblings and first come,first served. Most Catholic schools have a large no. of children with different or indeed no religions.

As to half of Catholic schools becoming non-Catholic in 4-5 years, don't hold your breath.

mambo

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our school is Catholic and we do not give preference to Catholics, it's siblings and first come,first served.

That's good to know - do many Catholic schools not give preference to Catholics?

But since we don't know where we will be living in a few years time, it would be a lot of work do put them down for every Catholic school in Dublin, just in case. :-(

lazygal

Mambo, we are expecting our first child and will be putting the name down as soon as we're home from the hospital for the local ET school. It's first come, first served and always oversubscribed. We are both not Catholic (raised but extremely lapsed!) and didn't have a religious wedding. We don't intend baptising either as we don't think its right just to get a child into school.

That said we have to be pragmatic and will also be putting our child's name down for the local Catholic school. This is with great reluctance. It's an excellent school and I attended it myself. The only thing niggling us is that our child will be left out of communion and confirmation preparation in second and sixth class which will be very annoying for us. We'll deal with the questions on God etc as best we can but the time devoted to preparation for sacraments is annoying, but as its a Catholic school what can you do.

I'm also not holding my breath on a large transfer of patronage any time soon.

I went to Dalkey School Project back when it really was a project!!

It is an absolutely fantastic school, I know quite a few people who have their kids there and they just love it. The admissions list is a long one though, my daughter didn't get a place despite being born at the end of July and her name going on the list the first week back in September. So you really do need to get your baby's name down pretty much the minute they are born!

I can't speak for other schools as I don't have direct experience but I have only heard good things about Monkstown ET.