Fine Gael to ban below cost selling of alcohol

Atlantic Dawn

Not sure what the plans of the other parties are but Fine Gael are planning on banning the below cost selling of alcohol, this is yet another protectionist approach to the market that only ends up with the consumer being penalised.

Page 24 of this document "Extra VAT yield from banning below cost selling of alcohol"
http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/LessWasteLowerTaxesStrongerGrowth.pdf

dlofnep

It's expensive enough to drink here as it is. Ugh.

phasers

What is below cost? I assume cheap booze from lidl/aldi wouldn't be affected by this, as surely they sell at some kind of a profit. Is it the special offers that supermarkets have? Either way it's crappy, just wondering what will actually be affected.

ScumLord

Well that ****ed up their election. Screw them.

veryangryman

Fecks sake - i lumped a ton of cash on this guy to become new Taoiseach

Enda, stop saying things to make yourself unpopular - it makes me sad

Rabies

phasers wrote: »

What is below cost? I assume cheap booze from lidl/aldi wouldn't be affected by this, as surely they sell at some kind of a profit. Is it the special offers that supermarkets have? Either way it's crappy, just wondering what will actually be affected.

Some supermarket chains sell alcohol at a loss to attract in buyers and make it back up on impulse purchases.

Cookie_Monster

What their reasoning behind it, or is it just protectionism once again?

TheZohanS

We either have a f**king free market or we don't. Fianna Fail protect the bond holders, banks and developers and now Fine Gael are protecting the publicans.

Sulmac

The Joe Duffy crowd win again.

Nodin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

What their reasoning behind it, or is it just protectionism once again?

A cross between protectionism and Nanny-in-a-blue-shirt statism, I'd imagine.

Nodin

Sulmac wrote: »

The Joe Duffy crowd win again.

Joeeeeeee, de peeeple next door joeeeee, der having de sex joeeeeee,
why should dey joeeeee, I'm not gettin any joeeeeeee.......

I think they call them 'wowsers' in Australia.

Morag

It's to protect pubs and offies. Supermarkets are the ones who'd do below 'cost' on their bulk bought discounted beer/wine so they still make tiny % on it but they make the money on the bulk sales and the other stuff which people will by when they are lured in by the price of the cheap drink.

Pubs and offies can't compete with that so the Irish Vintners are raising a strop.

It would be intresting to see how much in 'donations' the Irish Vintners have paid to all the political parties.

Azureus

This is just gona raise the whole pub debate again...
Not that there's much of a debate imo, make it worthwhile to come into your pub and I will buy drinks there. Dont and Ill buy in the supermarket/offie and drink at home.

I would not be a happy bunny if they brought this in!

El Siglo

Such a load of bollocks.

phasers

I wonder if we'll ever see the emergence of "chain pubs" like Weatherspoons in the UK? It'd be interesting to see how publicans react to that!

AnonymousPrime

Whats wrong with this? 20 bottles of stella for €10 was criminal anyway

El Siglo

Nodin wrote: »

A cross between protectionism and Nanny-in-a-blue-shirt statism, I'd imagine.

FYP;)

Cicero

So, next STG weakens against Euro even slightly, people will have ample excuse to go back up North and spend even more money out of state...clever move FG, clever move....!

wyndham

Thats only the tip of the iceberg: From the same page:

Increases in standard rate of VAT to 22% in 2012 and 23% in 2013

Increases in motor tax (€50 increase in bands A-D and ‘under 2,000cc’; &
€100 increase on E-G; and over 2,001cc)

25c increase in a pack of cigarettes in 2012, plus 50% cut in lost taxes from
cigarette smuggling through industry-financed port scanners
€1 increase in excise duty on a bottle of wine by 2014
Extra VAT yield from banning below cost selling of alcohol
Capital Acquisitions Tax - increase rate from 25% to 30%
Capital Gains Tax - increase rate from 25% to 30% (excluding SME equity investment)
Increase second home tax to €300 per annnum
Auctioning of Carbon Allowances for Power Generation and other Industrial
Uses from 2013 (assuming carbon price of €25 per tonne)
Increase in the carbon tax to €20 per tonne in 2012, and to €25 per tonne by
2014 (with an exemption for farm diesel)
An environmental tax on packaging (as per Comhar recommendation)

Increase in mortgage interest relief to 30% for First Time Buyers in 2004-08,
combined with abolition of relief for new buyers from June 2011

Fortune_Cookie

Well they ain't getting my bloody vote then. And I don't see why the pubs & off licences can't buy in bulk and sell the drink cheap like the supermarkets do. Like the big chain ones like Molloy's and all the pubs the Fitzgerald Group owns should be able to do that.

Cicero

wyndham wrote: »

Thats only the tip of the iceberg: From the same page:

thanks...you've reminded me why it's so important to read all this crap coming in my letterbox before I vote another bunch of idiots into power.

Duckworth_Luas

Fortune_Cookie wrote: »

Well they ain't getting my bloody vote then.

Great to see some people have their priorities straight. God forbid we'd ever have to pay the recommended retail price for alcohol. This is feckin Ireland, it's our right to get pi$$ed all the time.

Celly Smunt

at least my girlfriend won't have anymore black eyes i suppose

Wibbs

Cicero wrote: »

thanks...you've reminded me why it's so important to read all this crap coming in my letterbox before I vote another bunch of idiots into power.

Quoted for truth. Between this and the bollocks about non compulsory Irish for the LC the Gaelers are as bloody usual avoiding the real questions. It would be nice if that crooked headed leader of theirs actually showed up and debated the real issues once in a while without looking like a stuttering fool. And bear in mind Cic these eejits are just going to walk into their cushy pensions jobs.. It would nearly have me looking at the shinners. Naw only kidding. Scary stuff, but not that scary yet. Though it could go that way. Wait'll the IMF (and the EU) starts asset stripping public companies into private hands. Look to Greece at the moment...

Cicero

Wibbs wrote: »

. It would nearly have me looking at the shinners. Naw only kidding.

Ironically, that's what these policy documents are going to lead an increasing amount of voters to do........while I don't believe the lies and promises like 95,000 new "Green" jobs that the tree huggers are spouting on about, when someone has lost a job, or is on low wages, the crap the far left are spouting tends to get listened to a little more...and since theres 400,000 + people in that situation it's a lot of votes!

A Primal Nut

Who is advising these guys - do they expect this will win them votes? It's baffling. The anti-drink lobby must be really good at lobbying.

Duckworth_Luas

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Who is advising these guys

Health consultants, doctors and the like.

sdanseo

I am somewhere between shocked, appalled, and wanting to break into a fit of laughter at some of the idiots in this thread who want to NOT vote for FG - not for any particular educated or economic reason, but purely because it'll mean their booze is a tad more expensive. The drink culture in this country SICKENS me so much I actually find it hard to put into words.

On a purely economic tangent - this goes back to the groceries order from years ago - below cost selling of alcohol was a huge thing back then and it was eventually done away with when the groceries order was abolished; however it makes sense to ban it. For two main reasons:

1. If the likes of Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl can sell alcohol extremely cheaply it will directly affect the propensity of the public to buy it in higher quantites, and thus to binge drink. Binge drinking has so many negative effects that this can only be best avoided.

2. There is a serious risk that by allowing alcohol to be sold extremely cheaply, smaller businesses could go out of business - especially independent off licences, resteraunts, vintners, publicans, and others. While this should ideally be regulated by the picture perfect idea of a free market economy, Irish people have proved that we are incapable of 100% self regulation in terms of competition - just look at the mess that is the taxi situation.

In a perfect world, it should be allowed, the smaller off licences would have to compete or go out of business and that would be hunky dory. However the focus at present should be on protecting jobs - and given that our booze industry is so ridiculously dominant, it would be socially irresponsible to let so many small businesses and their associated jobs teter on the edge of liquidation. If we did, someone would only complain in a years' time that there are no jobs and FG did nothing about it.

Without wanting to sound too Lenihan-esque, Government sometimes has to make unpopular decisions. Yes they do stand to gain VAT, but it hardly lines their own pockets - it pays for things we take for granted like FREE universal healthcare.

Sorry bout ye, but there's more to life than bloody drink. Some of you disgust me.

Pauleta

Well they have just lost my vote and i was most likely gonna give them a 1 and 2 preference. At this rate im gonna end up voting Fianna Fail :pac: :mad:

ilovesleep

Im not liking some of these things Im reading from FG, especially the VAT and carbon tax increases because thats going to increase the cost of doing business, and increase the cost of living.

We're not in for an easy ride. Things are going to be awful. I believe FF were too easy in the budget just gone, trying to buy votes. It doesnt matter what party gets in people are going to be broke. All I'm saying is that I'm not going to write off FG because I dont like some things Im reading from them.

One of FG plans is emigrate voting which I like.

syklops

sdonn wrote: »

I am somewhere between shocked, appalled, and wanting to break into a fit of laughter at some of the idiots in this thread who want to NOT vote for FG - not for any particular educated or economic reason, but purely because it'll mean their booze is a tad more expensive. The drink culture in this country SICKENS me so much I actually find it hard to put into words.

On a purely economic tangent - this goes back to the groceries order from years ago - below cost selling of alcohol was a huge thing back then and it was eventually done away with when the groceries order was abolished; however it makes sense to ban it. For two main reasons:

1. If the likes of Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl can sell alcohol extremely cheaply it will directly affect the propensity of the public to buy it in higher quantites, and thus to binge drink. Binge drinking has so many negative effects that this can only be best avoided.

2. There is a serious risk that by allowing alcohol to be sold extremely cheaply, smaller businesses could go out of business - especially independent off licences, resteraunts, vintners, publicans, and others. While this should ideally be regulated by the picture perfect idea of a free market economy, Irish people have proved that we are incapable of 100% self regulation in terms of competition - just look at the mess that is the taxi situation.

In a perfect world, it should be allowed, the smaller off licences would have to compete or go out of business and that would be hunky dory. However the focus at present should be on protecting jobs - and given that our booze industry is so ridiculously dominant, it would be socially irresponsible to let so many small businesses and their associated jobs teter on the edge of liquidation. If we did, someone would only complain in a years' time that there are no jobs and FG did nothing about it.

Without wanting to sound too Lenihan-esque, Government sometimes has to make unpopular decisions. Yes they do stand to gain VAT, but it hardly lines their own pockets - it pays for things we take for granted like FREE universal healthcare.

Sorry bout ye, but there's more to life than bloody drink. Some of you disgust me.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Anti-drink lobby has landed.

phasers

But people will just buy crappier booze now cos it'll still cost less. As I said in my first post, lidl and aldi surely aren't selling their drink at a loss, people will just buy some off brand rubbish to get locked on (as an aside, Aldi do some lovely drink. I really like their fake Baileys)

It won't make binge drinkers drink less, it'll only effect people who enjoy a few cans or bottles. Stop pretending it's for health reasons.

phasers

sdonn wrote: »

Without wanting to sound too Lenihan-esque, Government sometimes has to make unpopular decisions. Yes they do stand to gain VAT, but it hardly lines their own pockets - it pays for things we take for granted like FREE universal healthcare.

Free? Tell that to my latest hospital bill.

sdanseo

syklops wrote: »

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Anti-drink lobby has landed.

Excuse the OT but I'm gona reply to this.

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

ejmaztec

phasers wrote: »

Free? Tell that to my latest hospital bill.

He must be living in the UK.

Wolfe Tone

**** you fine gael

syklops

sdonn wrote: »

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

I agree to a certain extent that drinking to get legless should not be encouraged, but Ireland has excessive drink laws, licensing laws, opening hours, and at the same time excessive taxes and duties on alcohol, all in the name of discouraging binge drinking. Has it worked yet? No.

As has been pointed out, all adding tax to alcohol does is encourage people to buy cheaper forms of alcohol. And in my opinion, for many families, adding tax to alcohol and cigarettes takes food directly out of the mouths of children, something that really should be discouraged.

SamSamSammy

I was unsure who to vote for, but they've got my vote off the back of this. Excellent idea, can only help society.

Sorry to the p1$$ heads :pac:

ejmaztec

Fuck the lot of em, brew your own.

Wolfe Tone

SamSamSammy wrote: »

I was unsure who to vote for, but they've got my vote off the back of this. Excellent idea, can only help society.

Sorry to the p1$$ heads :pac:

How? How will it help? Everyone will just spend extra on beer, people wont go without.

SamSamSammy

Probably, I realise people are thick and would rather get drunk than pay bills. But hey each to their own.

I'm voting FG now though.

Lawrence1895

Shall we all drink nail polish now or what :pac:

Anyway, I can only stand certain politicians (including FG) when I'm drunk, I guess, I need an extra income, should they get into government :mad:

Duckworth_Luas

Did any of you guys actually read the OP. It says they want to stop below cost selling of alcohol. That's where a retailer buys a bottle of beer for €1 and sells it to the customer for €0.80 instead of charging the recommended retail price of €1.20. This is rarely done anyway and only for certain brands within a store. As a business model it's madness. If you like cheap pi$$ then you'll still be able to buy that cheap pi$$ at the same price as now.

The next government have a lot of hard work to do to save this country. If something as insignificant as this gets people all upset then I don't want to be around after the next budget.

FG have impressed me in that they seem to actually seem to have thought out some non-populist plans to get this $hithole working again.

hatrickpatrick

sdonn wrote: »

Excuse the OT but I'm gona reply to this.

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

The fact that you personally disapprove of a social situation does not make it the government's business.
Dammit, social conservatives piss me the HELL off. Live your life and don't tell anyone else how to live theirs.

freyners

Duckworth_Luas wrote:

As a business model it's madness

eh, no its not, its like any other deals on any other goods, they advertise a special prices on certain goods and when they get the customer in the doors, they re-coup the loss through impluse purchases.

its just like any buy one get one free, 3 for the price of two etc deals that you see in any shop/supermarket in Irelands, its a very good business model.

Whatever about the any social impacts this probably wont have regardless of what people say otherwise, this is wrong on the basis that shops should be free to charge whatever they want on goods as long as they can remain in business doing it. Keeps any price higher that what it COULD be only ****s up a market. Basic economics

Molloys Clondalkin

Fortune_Cookie wrote: »

Well they ain't getting my bloody vote then. And I don't see why the pubs & off licences can't buy in bulk and sell the drink cheap like the supermarkets do. Like the big chain ones like Molloy's and all the pubs the Fitzgerald Group owns should be able to do that.

Even though we sell cheap its still no match for the supermarkets, Take dunnes this weekend there selling smirnoff for less than there buying it for.
Its not just us who are losing out but every off licence in clondalkin thats about 35 people who work in that industry around the area.
we all cant work in Dunnes

whiteonion

Nodin wrote: »

A cross between protectionism and Nanny-in-a-blue-shirt statism, I'd imagine.

So because you don't like a nanny state should we allow heroin to be sold to children? On closer inspection maybe you support a nanny state too...

hatrickpatrick

whiteonion wrote: »

So because you don't like a nanny state should we allow heroin to be sold to children? On closer inspection maybe you support a nanny state too...

No. But I don't see anything wrong with selling it to adults. Personal freedom ftw. If they want to utterly destroy themselves it's still none of the government's business.

Duckworth_Luas

freyners wrote: »

eh, no its not, its like any other deals on any other goods, they advertise a special prices on certain goods and when they get the customer in the doors, they re-coup the loss through impluse purchases.

its just like any buy one get one free, 3 for the price of two etc deals that you see in any shop/supermarket in Irelands, its a very good business model.

Whatever about the any social impacts this probably wont have regardless of what people say otherwise, this is wrong on the basis that shops should be free to charge whatever they want on goods as long as they can remain in business doing it. Keeps any price higher that what it COULD be only ****s up a market. Basic economics

That's not what I meant. People here seem to be under the impression that all alcohol is sold below cost and that this proposal would cause all alcohol to be increased in price. I meant that no business sells all their alcohol below cost, to do so would be madness.

freyners

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That's not what I meant. People here seem to be under the impression that all alcohol is sold below cost and that this proposal would cause all alcohol to be increased in price. I meant that no business sells all their alcohol below cost, to do so would be madness.

Sorry, I read it differently, apologies

seafood dunleavy

Sounds like a job for the beer baron.