1050 bar catridges in 900 bar barrel

12gauge dave

according to my baikal o/u 3inch chamber barrell it can handle 900bar pressure
alot of my catridges say max 1050bar ive fired a few catridges before i seen barrel pressures on this!

is it safe to fire these heavier loads? my gun dealer says it will be fine??
your opinions please:)

i add that barrells are not rusty or anything and gun is in great shape and always cleaned

landkeeper

then your dealer is a berk ...is it safe no not really it's proofed for a reason do you like your hands and face the way they are are you sure it's even 3" chambered at 900kg that would be a proof load for a 70mm chamber in any gun i have looked afaikr

12gauge dave

ya it says 76 on the barrell

Double Barrel

The 900 figure is there for a reason.
Me, I would follow landkeeper's advice. I like my eyes, hands, face just as they are and value my life quite a bit.
Tell the dealer he can fire all the 3" magnums he wants to out of his 900bar gun.

Tackleberrywho

Use ammo only designed for your particular firearm and only use in properly functioning firearms.

so if it says no then it means no.

Baikal are Russian
I bet the shells are not russian.

12gauge dave

thanks guys for your advice much apreciated:)

i got 36gram eley alphamax bbs will these be safe as eley dont state pressures on their boxes:mad:

on my barrell it says 12 76 90mpa

sincere113

Have a look at this http://imzcorp.com/res_en/0_value_2897_192.pdf

Is your gun a izh-27M? If so look at the note on page 19. Extract...

"The 76, 2 mm chamber shotgun can handle any
shotshells with a case length of upto 76 mm (60;
63,5; 65; 70; 73 and 76 mm) including shotshells
with writings “Max.1050 Bar” or “For Firearms
Tested By 1370 Bar”.
WARNING! A case length means a length to

the crimp BUT NOT A SHOTSHELL LENGTH!"

12gauge dave

sincere113 wrote: »

Have a look at this http://imzcorp.com/res_en/0_value_2897_192.pdf

Is your gun a izh-27M? If so look at the note on page 19. Extract...

"The 76, 2 mm chamber shotgun can handle any
shotshells with a case length of upto 76 mm (60;
63,5; 65; 70; 73 and 76 mm) including shotshells
with writings “Max.1050 Bar” or “For Firearms
Tested By 1370 Bar”.
WARNING! A case length means a length to

the crimp BUT NOT A SHOTSHELL LENGTH!"

ya its izh-27m-1c

thanks for replying with that info!

so does that mean that i can fire heavier magnum loads?

Double Barrel

so does that mean that i can fire heavier magnum loads?

Yes I think you can and for the following reasons. The 900 bar stamped on your barrel is not measured in the conventional way, (CIP & SAAMI). Your dealer's advise is fine but he did not explain it to you. That is his job.

I have being nosing around on the Izhmech site (Baikal is the trade name).
First off, we are not comparing apples to apples. When a cartridge is fired the highest pressure is generated in the chamber and in the 5 degree forcing cone (1/4 - 1" in length unless it has being modified), once through the cone the pressure drops off considerably in the bore.



The bar number stamped on the box of cartridges is for the "chamber pressure" one inch ahead of the breach face, as per the International Proof Commission (CIP).
Izhmech on the other hand take their pressure measurements 150 mm (6") from the breech face, well ahead of the forcing cone. So your 14000PSI - 15300psi in the chamber will become much less than 90 mpa (13053.6 psi ) 150 mm from the breech.
1 Bar = 14.504 psi - 1050 bar x 14.504 psi = 15229.2 psi chamber pressure.

This is an article about steel shot but it answers some of our questions.
"CIP sets two levels of chamber pressure for steel shot classification and proof: Standard Steel Shot and High Performance Steel Shot. The Standard Steel Shot has a maximum average pressure of 740 bar (10,733 psi). This maximum average is below the limit for all 12 gauge shells (11,500 psi) in the United States – lead and steel. The proof level for Standard Steel Shot, 1,200 bar (17,405 psi) is also below the proof level of all 12 gauge guns (lead and steel) in the United States. The High Performance Steel Shot has a maximum average pressure of 1,050 bar (15,229 psi). This maximum average is significantly higher than all 12 gauge shells in the United States – lead and steel, even including the new 3-1/2” loads. The proof level for High Performance Steel Shot, 1,370 bar (19,870 psi), actually falls right in the middle of the United States proof load specification (19,000 to 20,500 psi). Note that from a SAAMI standpoint, this CIP High Performance proof level is low for the actual working pressure of the service loads (see Diagram 1). used for steel shot. It is common knowledge, and recommended by firearm manufacturers, that there is no reason to fire steel shot in a choke tighter than modified. This is for two reasons: there is no performance (pattern) improvement with steel shot in tighter than modified chokes; and the tighter choke will result in more strain to the choke. As previously mentioned, with proper wad design choke strain is controlled. Under worse case condition of load design, gun metal strength, choke constriction, and usage (number of shots fired) there is the possibility of the choke constriction being deformed after extensive firing. This will normally result in the inside diameter of the choke opening up a slight amount, possibly also showing a visible bulge on the barrel exterior. Note that this has no impact on safety or even gun performance with steel shot, but could open up patterns slightly with lead shot fired in the same gun (no safety issue)."
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/CA256F310024B628/0/55A12260AB54418FCA256FE200062870/$File/NTS+-+Steel+Shot+Standards+Pressures+and+Proofing.pdf

Russian proof stamps:
http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/home.nsf/ExternalFiles/venajan_tarkastusleimat/$file/venajan_tarkastusleimat.pdf

12gauge dave

thanks double barrell for taking the time out to get that information really apreciiate it! some really helpful people on this:pac:

ya i think ive enough evidence to prove i can shoot heavy load magnums from time to time without killing myself but if i do someone sue baikal for false information:pac:

thanks again guys:D