"Property Advisers" - the slogan of a chain of auctioneers

gigino

I see on the wall outside a well known chain of auctioneers offices ( probably Irelands largest chain ) the slogan " property advisers", in large letters as part of their signage. On their website they say "The depth and breath of our expertise in the property sector is unrivalled". If they are so great, how come they did not see the downturn coming - or if they did, how come they did not advise it ? Some property they sold 14 or 15 years ago is worth less now than they sold it for then. What hope is there for someone who bought 3 or 4 years ago ?
I wonder how many people are there who took their advice 3, 5 or 7 years ago, who regret it now ? Some people have had their lives destroyed. Perhaps there should be a health - or wealth - warning ?

People give out about the banks and politicians , and rightly so - but surely the auctioneers should take some of the blame ? Someone else compared them to the promotors of a pyramid scheme.

JoeyJJ

Why do people assuming the price of an asset should increase. The price of a new car decreases dramitically once you leave the forecourt. While I agree EA's probably deserve most of what they get, people should realise that the value of your house may go up or down just like shares.

gigino

Car salesmen / saleswomen were not telling people cars were investments, they did not claim what they were selling was increasing at 20% a year, and if there ever was a landing it would be soft and prices would level off / only increase very slowly.

Car salespeople were not advising people to get their foot on the " car" ladder ( as opposed to property ladder ), giving projections on section 23 and section 50 rental values and anticipated capital values which were totally unrealistic etc. Even the Arthur Daly type of car salesman would not have a sign outside his premises saying " car advisers". Arthur Daly was not a loan broker giving out 110 % loans. So why does that nationally known chain of auctioneers advise widely they are "property advisers" ? Especially when the advice has cost so many people so dearly - including some suicides ?

Anyone else think the sign is a bit of an insult to those who saw the sign, went in, took their advice ( from the self proclaimed experts ) and have had their lives destroyed ?

JoeyJJ

McWilliams was telling anyone who would listen back in 2003 that it was a bubble, even the people on this Prime Time knew what they were getting into they even mention Negative Equity and acknowlege the interest rates. I only assume they still bought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxtkjZFfuZI&feature=player_embedded

Why would someone take advice like you say of someone who is been paid by the Vendor to sell their property. The EA works for the enemy not you. I'm not disagreeing with you that they shouldn't be called Property Advisers but people need to check the vested interests of where they are getting their advice.

ToxicPaddy

I think peoples mindset towards property has changed fairly dramatically in the last 15-20 years in Ireland..

Up to then, for most people buying a property was buying a home, unless you were one of the lucky few who could invest in a multiple properties as a business investment with the aim making money off it by renting for long periods of time.

Granted, there were some who would purchase property, redevelop it and then sell it on, but that was far from the norm.

So if you decided to buy a property as a home, it took some serious effort, a large deposit was needed, banks werent throwing money at people, lots of paperwork to be completed, the right home had to be found as chances are it was going to be yours for the next 10+ years at least unless a serious change in circumstances, good or bad, allowed or forced you to move.

Then the whole property boom and celtic tiger started kicking in and the process of buying property to flip it in a short period of time and make a profit became a fairly standard mindset. Now its the norm.

People might now realise that impulse buying of property is going to be a thing of the past as they will have to go back to putting serious thought into it, plan for the longer term and stop believing all the bullsh*t that EA's are throwing at them..

EricPraline

The mainstream media (including broadsheets and papers of "record") deserve even more of a pummeling for repeatedly presenting these people as "experts" whose "research" is somehow impartial and unbiased. The media are the ones who gave a platform to these salespeople to peddle their misinformation.

gigino

JoeyJJ wrote: »

McWilliams was telling anyone who would listen back in 2003 that it was a bubble

but there was a dozen other economists / experts telling people the opposite, for every McWilliam. Thats what created the situation.

I still see people looking in the windows of the estate agents, feeling a bit confused, and looking up and seeing the sign " property advisers" outside the door. They go in to the firm which proclaims in writing the "depth and breath of our expertise in the property sector is unrivalled". Who is McWillian to argue with the hundreds of experts in that firm ? They are the experts.

Would a shop which sold Tobacco have a large part of their signage outside which says " health advisers" ?

EricPraline

gigino wrote: »

but there was a dozen other economists / experts telling people the opposite, for every McWilliam. Thats what created the situation.

Did you ever look at the job titles that these people had? When I saw these kinds of articles, it was almost always an "economist/expert" from a bank, mortgage brokerage, estate agency, property website, or the CIF. Newspapers or TV stations never qualified their statements or challenged them on the basis that the careers of these people were dependent on a booming property market. Yet it's hard to understand how people didn't see the obvious conflict of interests. Would people expect a car salesmen to give them unbiased advice about whether they should buy a car?

Zamboni

EricPraline wrote: »

The mainstream media (including broadsheets and papers of "record") deserve even more of a pummeling for repeatedly presenting these people as "experts" whose "research" is somehow impartial and unbiased. The media are the ones who gave a platform to these salespeople to peddle their misinformation.

In fairness there were folks like Morgan Kelly and David McWilliams on that same platform.
It's up to audience to decide who to listen.
If you watch part 2 of that youtube posted above, the FTBers all listen to McWilliams and then side with Hughes.
Let's separate the mainstream media and personal responsibility.

gigino

Even the economists in our own ESRI and central bank were not predicting a downturn. Its not unreasonable for some people to trust those who advertise themselves as the unrivalled experts in the property field. Would a shop which sold Tobacco have a large part of their signage outside which says " health advisers" ?

As regards the car analogy, car salesmen are taken to court if its proven what they say about a car is wrong. Car salesmen / saleswomen were not telling people cars were investments, and congratulating them when they bought.

As I said before "Car salespeople were not advising people to get their foot on the " car" ladder ( as opposed to property ladder ), giving projections on section 23 and section 50 rental values and anticipated capital values which were totally unrealistic etc. Even the Arthur Daly type of car salesman would not have a sign outside his premises saying " car advisers". Arthur Daly was not a loan broker giving out 110 % loans. So why does that nationally known chain of auctioneers advise widely they are "property advisers" ?"

JoeyJJ

gigino wrote: »

Even the economists in our own ESRI and central bank were not predicting a downturn.

Well how do you expect EA's to know? You've prooven the opposite point. If you want to call EA's incompetant for their advertising, keeping appointments etc thats fine but EA's making money, you should expect to hear the usual lines and with everything remember.

BUYER BEWARE.

Ortiz

Gigino,

EA's are in the business to make money. What kind of understanding of that profession do you have? You're saying they should have told people in 2007/2008 that prices were going to nose dive (even though many experts didn't see it coming) thus crippling their business???

EA's need to sell houses to make money I don't think they are to blame for anything that happened. Blame them for many other things but not the recession. They are simply appointed to sell a property. Are car salesmen to blame for the recession as they sold cars for 5 times what they're worth now?? No. If you were an EA would you try to get the best price for your client whether it be in 2007, 2008 or 2009?? Of course you would so stop looking for reasons to blame EA's

EricPraline

Zamboni wrote: »

In fairness there were folks like Morgan Kelly and David McWilliams on that same platform.
It's up to audience to decide who to listen.
If you watch part 2 of that youtube posted above, the FTBers all listen to McWilliams and then side with Hughes.
Let's separate the mainstream media and personal responsibility.

I'm certainly not dismissing personal responsibility. Quite the opposite in fact, I'm suggesting that people should have at least gone as far as reading the job title of the "expert" before taking their advice.

But equally it seemed to me that the amount of print space and air time given to blatant property shills was outrageous. Though maybe not too surprising given that property advertising was such a money generator.

gigino

Ortiz wrote: »

EA's are in the business to make money.

Their job description / nature of their trade , according to the large sign outside their front door, is "property advisers".


Even on their website they boast "The depth and breath of our expertise in the property sector is unrivalled". Unrivalled, if you do'nt mind.

If they are so great, how come they did not see the downturn coming - or if they did, how come they did not advise about it ..seeing as they advertise themselves as being in the business of property advisors....to the vulnerable people, some of whose lives have been destroyed. Instead people were sold huge mortgages ( 110% ? ).
Would other pyramid scheme sellers have behaved as badly ? I suggest not.

Would tobacconists be allowed to advertise themselves as health advisers ? People who sell tobacco are acting for the financial interests of themselves and those who supply the tobacco.

Ortiz

Come on Gigino - The banks gave the 110% mortgages so stop placing blame where it isn't appropriate. Some of these firms may have broker departments as well but it's the banks that ultimately give the money.

As for their slogan - It's just a slogan! For all you know they may be able to expertly advise you how to make buying/selling a home as painless as possible. But you expect them to have told people at the peak to stop buying as prices will fall?? What planet are you on? Why would they cripple their business?

Snakeblood

To be far they're not saying they give good advice, just a lot of it.

gigino

Snakeblood wrote: »

To be far they're not saying they give good advice, just a lot of it.

if a doctor gives advice, they should give good advice.

why not auctioneers ?