DIY AI

Neo Sanders

Hi All,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on DIY AI.

I built a slatted shed a couple of years back for my sucklers. Since then I notice my bull is having difficulty working on the slats. He hasn't got the space to do his job and he's lame now. I'm a part timer, so letting him out to a loose shed isn't an option as standing heat is usually finished by the time I see them. ( I see them twice a day, morning and evening)

I was thinking of going down the AI route and doing the DIY course. Has anyone else gone down this route and how do you find it? Is it a difficult skill to master? Has your calving interval increased? I presume calf quality has improved? I've 45 cows is it financially worth it for this number or would I be as well to get out the AI man?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks

reilig

Can't advise you on the DIY AI but the bull on slats is a common problem. I did my pens with mats and that has allowed my bull to work properly on the slats. Might be worth considering.

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on DIY AI.

I built a slatted shed a couple of years back for my sucklers. Since then I notice my bull is having difficulty working on the slats. He hasn't got the space to do his job and he's lame now. I'm a part timer, so letting him out to a loose shed isn't an option as standing heat is usually finished by the time I see them. ( I see them twice a day, morning and evening)

I was thinking of going down the AI route and doing the DIY course. Has anyone else gone down this route and how do you find it? Is it a difficult skill to master? Has your calving interval increased? I presume calf quality has improved? I've 45 cows is it financially worth it for this number or would I be as well to get out the AI man?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks

funny man

Weigh up all your options; have you an area outside the slatted house(yard, hardcore) that you could have that cows could access, you'll find both the cows and the bull will use this.
I have done the course and didn't find it hard to do but it's getting the practice afterwards which makes you either good or bad at it, you also need to be patient with it at first but anybody can do it.
You won't save a fortune by doing it yourself as i pay almost €200 a year on flask services.
Go talk to your ai man see what he charges and more importantly talk to his clients as some ai men take on too much work and do be strecthed in the spring/summer.

thetangler

Hi
I am DIY AI since 1996.
Def woudnt go back to having a bull for 3 reason's
The kids are small,
The selection of bulls you can have in the pot.
The hassle of housing a bull for the winter.
I dont have any problem with conception rates but sometimes spotting them in heat can be a prob.
When I see a cow on I inseminate her twice once in the am and again in the evening.

pakalasa

thetangler wrote: »

........When I see a cow on I inseminate her twice once in the am and again in the evening.

I would see that as a great advantage in doing your own AI. The extra straw is only costing you 8 Euro or whatever.
You'd be driving mad at times trying to guess the exact time of standing heat, when you're not there during the day.

OP,
If I were you. I'd just get the rubber mats for the slats. Easy solution to your problem.

vanderbadger

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on DIY AI.

I built a slatted shed a couple of years back for my sucklers. Since then I notice my bull is having difficulty working on the slats. He hasn't got the space to do his job and he's lame now. I'm a part timer, so letting him out to a loose shed isn't an option as standing heat is usually finished by the time I see them. ( I see them twice a day, morning and evening)

I was thinking of going down the AI route and doing the DIY course. Has anyone else gone down this route and how do you find it? Is it a difficult skill to master? Has your calving interval increased? I presume calf quality has improved? I've 45 cows is it financially worth it for this number or would I be as well to get out the AI man?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks

in the same boat, try and ai a few during the winter and i find it difficult to detect heat, am the moment have a bull that i want to let off with some heifers and another bull for the cows..bit of a disaster, trying to keep them apart, one lad in a pen by himself on slats and the other lad is taking up big pen in another shed, dont want to let him in with cows in case he hurts himself, will have to come up with better solution, would like to have a drypen i can leave bull in that I could lets cows into when on for bulling, at the moment the bull for the cows cant see any of the other stock, he can only hear them, would prefer him to have a bit of company maybe, he seems a bit restless at times, as the boys were saying it might be easier just to have the slat mats and let him in with them

Neo Sanders

Thanks for the comments lads, to answer some items raised:

I have easy-fix mats on the slats. I think part of the problem is the bull is following the cow around in circles on the slat pen (which is roughly 17ft * 15ft). He can't get a run at her like he would in a bigger area. I gave the cows and bull access to two pens (although I put in more cows, 15 cows on 2 pens merged) and then he got lame. When he tries to mount, there's either another cow or a wall etc in his way...

I have a decent size lie back (45ft * 30ft) area with the calves accessing this. If I let all cows and bull access this, I'll be back to bedding it every other night. (which is the main benefit of the slats)..

I think myself the bull on slats won't work long term, it's either go back to bedding or go down AI. I'd like the flexibility of AI, as I could breed good replacements from my best cows. I still plan to keep the bull for Spring calvers.

thetangler: re doing a cow twice with AI. Doe this not make it quiet expensive, especially if using dearer straws? What's the latest after standing heat that a cow can be AI'ed?

bogman_bass

if you have a good technictian in your area I'd go with him.
Unless you have aroud 60 cows I dont think its worth paying for the flask, straws the training and regular top ups with nitrogen
plus if you dont have that number you dont have enough practice at.
plus if

try the service for this year and if it works then you can stick with it

reilig

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Thanks for the comments lads, to answer some items raised:

I have easy-fix mats on the slats. I think part of the problem is the bull is following the cow around in circles on the slat pen (which is roughly 17ft * 15ft). He can't get a run at her like he would in a bigger area. I gave the cows and bull access to two pens (although I put in more cows, 15 cows on 2 pens merged) and then he got lame. When he tries to mount, there's either another cow or a wall etc in his way...

15 cows is far too much for that size of pen (or double pen), especially if they have calves at foot. I'm working with about 5 cows and 5 calves per bay (15ft x 17ft) + Cubicles + 15x7 creep area at back for calves. Like you I have the middle gate taken out to let 2 pens together. But i wouldn't stock it any heavier than 10 cows + calves + Bull for the whole area. He doesn't need to have a run at the cow, but he does need space to operate

BeeDI

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Thanks for the comments lads, to answer some items raised:

I have easy-fix mats on the slats. I think part of the problem is the bull is following the cow around in circles on the slat pen (which is roughly 17ft * 15ft). He can't get a run at her like he would in a bigger area. I gave the cows and bull access to two pens (although I put in more cows, 15 cows on 2 pens merged) and then he got lame. When he tries to mount, there's either another cow or a wall etc in his way...

I have a decent size lie back (45ft * 30ft) area with the calves accessing this. If I let all cows and bull access this, I'll be back to bedding it every other night. (which is the main benefit of the slats)..

I think myself the bull on slats won't work long term, it's either go back to bedding or go down AI. I'd like the flexibility of AI, as I could breed good replacements from my best cows. I still plan to keep the bull for Spring calvers.

thetangler: re doing a cow twice with AI. Doe this not make it quiet expensive, especially if using dearer straws? What's the latest after standing heat that a cow can be AI'ed?

I dont have slat mats yet, but I'm threatning to put them in in the summer this year, and I have the same problem as you getting the bull to perform.
He is not lame and his feet are dead sound, but he does not seem to want to mount any cow in the slats.

I have 9 calved now over the past 2 weeks. I will let the bull into them spread over two pens, within the next couple of weeks. I'm hoping I will be able to see he has an interest in anything coming bulling even though he might not be mounting. As soon as I see that, the suspect cow and bull will be put back on to one pen at the back of the slats, bedded with straw for a day! Hope it does the trick.

Neo Sanders

bogman_bass - ok that sounds like sensible advice.

At the minute (since my bull got lame). I get the cow in heat out to a crush and leave her in it for the AI man. It's not ideal leaving her in it for half the day. He'll put her back in the pen when finished (with the help of my 84 yo father...!!)

If I had a head lock gate on the slats, will this be suitable for an AI man to catch the cows and then get into the slat to inseminate the particular one. Or would most AI men abulk at doing this? There is the added risk of getting a kick from a cow caught beside the one being served.

Muckit

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I have a decent size lie back (45ft * 30ft) area

I think myself the bull on slats won't work long term, it's either go back to bedding or go down AI.

I think you've answered your own question. You can't have it every way. If I were you I'd be using that lie back area. If using straw, perhaps think about bark or chips. Yes cattle maybe a little dirtier, but I bet your bull (and cows) will love you for it

As for calves, you may still be able to section off a part of it and fit a creep gate.

DIY AI isn't the solution to your problem.

Muckit

Neo Sanders wrote: »

I get the cow in heat out to a crush and leave her in it for the AI man. It's not ideal leaving her in it for half the day. He'll put her back in the pen when finished (with the help of my 84 yo father...!!)

Although I appreciate your predictament, It really is far from ideal having an animal on their own in a crush for that length of time. An animal could get themselves into aweful difficulty. Do you not have a secure pen near the crush that you could leave the cow in heat with another cow?

Neo Sanders

Muckit - re the lie back. I agree you're right, I've an idea in my head how I can get this sorted for next year and I agree about DIY AI.

However I think I will get a few of my best AI's with maternal sires to breed replacements. I also accept it's not good leaving the cow in the crush. Unfortunately the only option is to leave her in the feed passage, which isn't ideal either.

I'm wondering if head lock gate option is acceptable for an AI technican. Is it acceptbale to ask him to throw a bit of meal along the silage, lock the gate and get into the pen and server cow no 0234, for example? Or is he likely to tell me head off...!! I know I can ask my AI man, (although I don't know the man too well)as we rarely used AI.

vanderbadger

Neo Sanders wrote: »

Muckit - re the lie back. I agree you're right, I've an idea in my head how I can get this sorted for next year and I agree about DIY AI.

However I think I will get a few of my best AI's with maternal sires to breed replacements. I also accept it's not good leaving the cow in the crush. Unfortunately the only option is to leave her in the feed passage, which isn't ideal either.

I'm wondering if head lock gate option is acceptable for an AI technican. Is it acceptbale to ask him to throw a bit of meal along the silage, lock the gate and get into the pen and server cow no 0234, for example? Or is he likely to tell me head off...!! I know I can ask my AI man, (although I don't know the man too well)as we rarely used AI.

not a chance of my ai man doing a cow that way anyhow, if she isnt in the crush id say alot of them would be hesitiant , hard to blame them i suppose with the way some cows are now
good post though, with alot of farmers part time it a common issue regarding going down the ai route or not

Neo Sanders

vanderbadger - ok thanks for that. I suppose If I get my AI man out at the weekend sometime, I could talk to him. I won't invest in a head-lock gate in the mean-time..!!

I've often read posts on this forum previously but this is the fist query I submitted. I have to say thanks to all for responding and the advice recieved was sound and helpful.

I think I've made up my mind on my plan of action.

I'm not going to bother with the DIY AI. I'll modify my set-up so that the bull and one pen of cows (the ones due to come in heat) have access to lie back full time. It'll mean a bit more bedding, but it's a necessary evil.

I try and use some AI on my best cows and I'll chat to my AI man on how best to manage this.

Thanks again to all.

pakalasa

I know with my AI guy, I just leave the cow to be AI'd with another cow (a quite one) in a small yard with a crush in it. The AI guy is fine with that. He'll hunt them around and up the chute, no bother.The 2nd cow is there to keep the other one calm. You dont even need a head lock gate on the crush.
I'd never leave a cow in a chute unsupervised. Asking for trouble.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

I know with my AI guy, I just leave the cow to be AI'd with another cow (a quite one) in a small yard with a crush in it. The AI guy is fine with that. He'll hunt them around and up the chute, no bother.The 2nd cow is there to keep the other one calm. You dont even need a head lock gate on the crush.
I'd never leave a cow in a chute unsupervised. Asking for trouble.

My AI man is always giving out about a local pedigree breeder who has no crush. He has often gone to the farm and got instructions on his phone to walk to a certain field where he would find a cow tied to a bush. Even though the cow might be quiet she's virtually impossible to AI while tied to a bush

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

My AI man is always giving out about a local pedigree breeder who has no crush. He has often gone to the farm and got instructions on his phone to walk to a certain field where he would find a cow tied to a bush. Even though the cow might be quiet she's virtually impossible to AI while tied to a bush

Now that's taking the piss!

jeff greene

reilig wrote: »

My AI man is always giving out about a local pedigree breeder who has no crush. He has often gone to the farm and got instructions on his phone to walk to a certain field where he would find a cow tied to a bush. Even though the cow might be quiet she's virtually impossible to AI while tied to a bush

If she has a strong heat, she’ll stand:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDtYNfDGb-o

Bizzum

We used to have a similar problem.
We resolved it by parking the mobile crush inside on the slats, and run in the cow then for AI using a gate swinging off the side of the crush.

We since got a calving gate, and use it now to catch the girls for AI.
Could this be a runner for you?