William Ford Side by side 12 gauge

sparx001

I have recently acquired one of these fromn a friend, Looks like a lovely piece of craftsmanship, does anyone know where i could find out more about them or does anyone know anything about them?

sfakiaman

Small article here

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/shotguns/434982/English_boxlock_shotguns_under_pound5000.html

about half way down the page. Seems like a nice gun.

sparx001

Thats the only info I could find, I'd love to get mine dated and stuff. There is slight pitting starting in the barrels. I'll take some pics and put them up later.

Double Barrel

sparx

I have two of Fords pigeon guns and his guns are regularly seen at auction. As a barrel specialist he also re-barrelled a lot of guns. I have a Westley Richards with an extra set of barrels by Ford, they throw some of the best patterns of any gun I have owned.
He had an excellent reputation for producing heavy wildfowler and pigeon guns and as a barrel maker for some "big name" gunmakers, Greener, Turner & L Jeffries. He was involved in some of Greeners winning guns in the choke bore trials set up by the Field magazine in 1875 and later for Lincoln Jeffries' guns.

Pick up a copy of Nigel Brown's book "British Gunmakers" it has quite a bit of information, serial No.'s and dates.

The following is from the Internet Gun Club:

It is not known when or where William Ford established his business. He came to prominence in 1875 and 1879 as a barrel maker when he won awards at the "Field" gun trials (he bored barrels for W W Greener in 1875 and Lincoln Jeffries in 1879).

There are reports that the firm occupied premises at 14 Whittall Street in about 1879, but this has not been confirmed.

Reportedly, it was in 1883 that William Ford introduced his "Eclipse" light weight shotgun (some say this was introduced in 1887 and this date may be correct). This gun weighed 4lbs and used 1oz of shot (some say it weighed 5lbs).

In 1884 the firm was recorded at 4a (or 4 1/2) Weaman Row, St Mary's, Birmingham. In 1885 they moved to the "Eclipse Works", 23 Loveday Street. In 1885 the firm widened their sphere of activities into the manufacture of barrelled actions.

In 1887 the firm was granted patent No. 8841 for a cocking and ejector mechanism, this was followed by two further patents for similar mechanisms in 1888 (Nos. 2622 and 9348). This was when they commenced trading as gunmakers, selling retail as well as to the trade.

In 1889 the firm moved to 15 St Mary's Row, which they also called the Eclipse Gun Works. In about 1900 a company named Birmingham Gun & Cycle Co occupied part of 15 St Mary's Row, this may have been formed by William Ford to use spare capacity in his gun manufacturing business, it appears to have been replaced in about 1920 by Birmingham Gun Co. From 1906, workshops at the back of 15 St Mary's Row were occupied by Charles Chambers who did work for William Ford, an association that was to last until after the Second World War.

In 1890 William Ford patented his Try-Gun, the first of its kind. By this time the firm had opened shooting grounds at Small Heath in Birmingham and at Clayton in Manchester, and advertised their proficiency in gun fitting.

In 1898 the firm moved to 4 Price Street but they retained the 15 St Mary's Row premises. The Price Street premises appear to have been used up to 1948 amongst other things, for cartridge manufacture, they were retained until 1953.

In 1909 William Ford died and his son, A F Ford took over the business.

A F Ford died in 1946.

Reportedly, the firm changed its name to William Ford & Co but this has not been confirmed.

In 1951 the firm moved its principal office back to 15 St Mary's Row.

In 1953 the firm amalgamated with James Carr & Sons, and in 1954 they became a limited company, William Ford Ltd, but James Carr & Sons appears to have continued trading under their own name. In 1955 William Ford Ltd moved to Carr's premises at 10 & 11 St Mary's Row. These premises were also occupied by Thomas Yates, William Woodward and Henry Morris.

In 1964 re-development of St Mary's Row caused a move to 96 Potters Hill, Aston, Birmingham. A further move in 1972 to 352 Moseley Road was caused by development.

In February 1991 the company, then managed by Alan Thornton who wanted to retire, was taken over by Bailons Gunmakers Ltd which was owned by Sir Malcolm Guthrie Bt. Both firms closed in 1993.

B J Horton Corcoran was employed by the firm when Alan Thornton managed it, he went on to buy the firm of Daniel Fraser and establish a business under the name of B J Horton in Cromarty, Scotland.

The firm sold cartridges under the names the "Pheasant", the "Eclipse", the "Fleet" and the "Ignition Tube".

From about 1885 the firm often used a trade-mark of a solar eclipse.

sparx001

some pics, sorry about the quality of light.

sparx001

IMG_0350.JPG

sparx001

Thanks for that DB. I'll look on amozon for that book.

Double Barrel

Sparx

Your gun has WW Greeners patented cross bolt locking mechanism.
Hard to tell from the photos but is that corrosion/pitting on the barrels?
How are the bores after you cleaned them, shiny?

sparx001

Yeah there is some pitting, bores are shiny after cleaning but some vry small pitting in there too. What do you think?

Double Barrel

I would get a good smith to have a look. If the bore pitting is shallow it may come out with a polishing. The surface pitting may require a reblack/bluing by a pro.

sparx001

Do you reccomend anyone? Is it expensive?

retroboy19

Hi there i was wondering if you could help - your thread gave me a lot of information about the company of William Ford.
I am trying to find information about my grt grandfather Thomas Randell
1858 - 1923,i have been told by Bham Proof House that he was listed as
working Back 16 St Marys Row Birmigham as a Gun Smith - a trade he worked in all his life.He was a sergent in the Royal Warwikshire regiment
in ww1 but still continued in the same trade after this until his death.
He lived in Lancaster St,other family members lived around Loveday and Price St.I am trying to acertain if Thomas worked for someone or on his own as you said in your thread William Ford
had his business at 15 St Marys Row Bham, would this be where w w Greener also had his business and did it cover number 16 where my grt grandfather worked or were they workshops connected too 15?
Can you tell me what is where the premises are now?
I am very interested in Old Photos of Birmingham Gunsmiths particularly from the St Marys Row area,would you know where i could find any - maybe the names that you mentioned in your thread? or the book ny Nigel Brown?

Hope you can help with any of this,i enyoyed the information you provided

Best wishes Mr M Randell
ps my grt grandfathers grandson Arhtur Evans also worked
as a Gunsmith but this must have been in 1950s and had a shop

I have two of Fords pigeon guns and his guns are regularly seen at auction. As a barrel specialist he also re-barrelled a lot of guns. I have a Westley Richards with an extra set of barrels by Ford, they throw some of the best patterns of any gun I have owned.
He had an excellent reputation for producing heavy wildfowler and pigeon guns and as a barrel maker for some "big name" gunmakers, Greener, Turner & L Jeffries. He was involved in some of Greeners winning guns in the choke bore trials set up by the Field magazine in 1875 and later for Lincoln Jeffries' guns.

Pick up a copy of Nigel Brown's book "British Gunmakers" it has quite a bit of information, serial No.'s and dates.

The following is from the Internet Gun Club:

It is not known when or where William Ford established his business. He came to prominence in 1875 and 1879 as a barrel maker when he won awards at the "Field" gun trials (he bored barrels for W W Greener in 1875 and Lincoln Jeffries in 1879).

There are reports that the firm occupied premises at 14 Whittall Street in about 1879, but this has not been confirmed.

Reportedly, it was in 1883 that William Ford introduced his "Eclipse" light weight shotgun (some say this was introduced in 1887 and this date may be correct). This gun weighed 4lbs and used 1oz of shot (some say it weighed 5lbs).

In 1884 the firm was recorded at 4a (or 4 1/2) Weaman Row, St Mary's, Birmingham. In 1885 they moved to the "Eclipse Works", 23 Loveday Street. In 1885 the firm widened their sphere of activities into the manufacture of barrelled actions.

In 1887 the firm was granted patent No. 8841 for a cocking and ejector mechanism, this was followed by two further patents for similar mechanisms in 1888 (Nos. 2622 and 9348). This was when they commenced trading as gunmakers, selling retail as well as to the trade.

In 1889 the firm moved to 15 St Mary's Row, which they also called the Eclipse Gun Works. In about 1900 a company named Birmingham Gun & Cycle Co occupied part of 15 St Mary's Row, this may have been formed by William Ford to use spare capacity in his gun manufacturing business, it appears to have been replaced in about 1920 by Birmingham Gun Co. From 1906, workshops at the back of 15 St Mary's Row were occupied by Charles Chambers who did work for William Ford, an association that was to last until after the Second World War.

In 1890 William Ford patented his Try-Gun, the first of its kind. By this time the firm had opened shooting grounds at Small Heath in Birmingham and at Clayton in Manchester, and advertised their proficiency in gun fitting.

In 1898 the firm moved to 4 Price Street but they retained the 15 St Mary's Row premises. The Price Street premises appear to have been used up to 1948 amongst other things, for cartridge manufacture, they were retained until 1953.

In 1909 William Ford died and his son, A F Ford took over the business.

A F Ford died in 1946.

Reportedly, the firm changed its name to William Ford & Co but this has not been confirmed.

In 1951 the firm moved its principal office back to 15 St Mary's Row.

In 1953 the firm amalgamated with James Carr & Sons, and in 1954 they became a limited company, William Ford Ltd, but James Carr & Sons appears to have continued trading under their own name. In 1955 William Ford Ltd moved to Carr's premises at 10 & 11 St Mary's Row. These premises were also occupied by Thomas Yates, William Woodward and Henry Morris.

In 1964 re-development of St Mary's Row caused a move to 96 Potters Hill, Aston, Birmingham. A further move in 1972 to 352 Moseley Road was caused by development.

In February 1991 the company, then managed by Alan Thornton who wanted to retire, was taken over by Bailons Gunmakers Ltd which was owned by Sir Malcolm Guthrie Bt. Both firms closed in 1993.

B J Horton Corcoran was employed by the firm when Alan Thornton managed it, he went on to buy the firm of Daniel Fraser and establish a business under the name of B J Horton in Cromarty, Scotland.

The firm sold cartridges under the names the "Pheasant", the "Eclipse", the "Fleet" and the "Ignition Tube".

From about 1885 the firm often used a trade-mark of a solar eclipse.[/QUOTE]

retroboy19

Hi i hope you got my message - i may have sent it wrong - please let me know

best wishes
Mr Randell

Double Barrel

Retro,
Wish I could help but I am not that well versed on the 1950's Birmingham.
The gun business was not a cottage industry on one hand - big firms controlled the industry, WW Greener owned the very large Prize Gun Works in Loveday street.- but on the other hand it was a huge cottage industry, what with thousands of tradesmen, "outworkers", scattered throughout the Quarter supplying the named houses with parts.
In 1851 there were 2867 workers in the Birmingham gun trade. This had grown to about 6000 by 1860 and by 1865 nearly ten thousand workers were employed in the gun trade.
Kelly's directory for 1874 lists 329 names connected with the gun trade in Birmingham, 210 of which had premises in the Gun Quarter.
Between 1855 and 1861 six million arms were tested and proofed.

"In 1951 the firm ( Ford)moved its principal office back to 15 St Mary's Row.
In 1953 the firm amalgamated with James Carr & Sons, and in 1954 they became a limited company, William Ford Ltd, but James Carr & Sons appears to have continued trading under their own name. In 1955 William Ford Ltd moved to Carr's premises at 10 & 11 St Mary's Row."

There is much information available here:
http://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenames-gazetteer-a-to-y/places-g/the-gun-quarter/

http://birminghamgunmuseum.com/Home_Page.php

Good luck