Look a useful discussion

tunney

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056175968

Look no over modding over on cycling. A training and racing related thread that covers sitting on the line. Illness and injury are part and parcel of training. Overreaching brings risks. It's managing these that are important and overcoming challenges that improves us.

It's been a while since ART started it's slide into uselessness but it's defintely there and still sinking.

baza1976

Are you ok Tunney? You want to get something off your chest??

kingQuez

Dunno if tunney has a bone to pick, but its certainly been a bit.. er.. dead around here for a while now. wasnt sure if it was the reorganization of the forum into subcategories but theres not a lot of talk on anything, not that i was ever a massive contributor, but the daily draw are some of the personal logs for me these days. Seems like some sparkle is missing

robinph

What do you want to chat about?

T runner

tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056175968

Look no over modding over on cycling. A training and racing related thread that covers sitting on the line. Illness and injury are part and parcel of training. Overreaching brings risks. It's managing these that are important and overcoming challenges that improves us.

It's been a while since ART started it's slide into uselessness but it's defintely there and still sinking.

I thought the thread on Kenyan training by Kiwirunner was probably superior to the one youve linked. Maybe it wasnt your cup of tea?

MrCreosote

It has been very quiet/boring on the main forum. The best stuff is buried in the training logs, or on the events page.

Maybe it's the time of year though??

nerraw1111

Those that can....

First quote of said thread: "Mods, before you lock this I'm not looking for specific medical advice."

Locked threads here ask the opposite.

Still we do miss you. HTFU etc

donothoponpop

tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056175968

Look no over modding over on cycling. A training and racing related thread that covers sitting on the line. Illness and injury are part and parcel of training. Overreaching brings risks. It's managing these that are important and overcoming challenges that improves us.

It's been a while since ART started it's slide into uselessness but it's defintely there and still sinking.

mod
I've looked at the thread on cycling, there was a mod message about medical advice- I believe we would have done the same here.

Scratching my head about those not finding content interesting- I thought some of the best stuff ever was posted recently. However, feel free to add to the interesting content by starting threads on topics you may think are neglected. A forum is only as strong as the input of its members.

Which leads me on to Tri- we (mods) had been discussing a mentored thread for higher performing Tri athletes here- one which would specifically cater to improving to sub 10 finishers. A certain poster agreed to mentor this, we had discussions about how best to do it, all was set to go, and then... nothing. I've been waiting a month for him to start it, but its only obvious to me now he isn't going to. So if anyone else from the Tri community wants to pick this one up, and get a bit of discussion going on the pointier end of Tri races in Ireland, feel free to PM me of your interest, (or just set one up if you want). Tri isn't really something any of the active moderators on the forum know much about, and I note that its (some) Tri posters who are finding forum content boring, so perhaps it needs a creative push from someone interested.

/mod

dare2be

tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056175968

Look no over modding over on cycling. A training and racing related thread that covers sitting on the line. Illness and injury are part and parcel of training. Overreaching brings risks. It's managing these that are important and overcoming challenges that improves us.

It's been a while since ART started it's slide into uselessness but it's defintely there and still sinking.

The thread on running on the Wii board really got my goat. I was biting my tongue up until that stage. I know i don't start or even contribute to many threads but some of the content has become poor.

The training logs (yes, i have one) and ART events sub-forums is the place to be for this forum atm

RayCun

Anyone have any figures for the number of people using ART now compared to two years ago (or whenever the golden age was)?
It occurs to me that one reason why people find Events threads and training logs to be more interesting is that they are more likely to have discussions there with people doing the same sport, at the same standard. The main forum covers everything, and if there are more people posting, there are more people posting novice/IMRA/tri/athletics/whatever threads that you aren't interested in.

mloc123

donothoponpop wrote: »

Tri posters who are finding forum content boring, so perhaps it needs a creative push from someone interested.

I don't think its a lack of tri content, the forum has just gone to sh*t IMO. I think breaking it into all the sub forums certainly didn't help.

Look at the frontpage of it now, there are about 10 active threads today. Did we need a gear sub forum? Events and logs makes sense I guess.

The medical locks are another good point, maybe they don't all need to be locked straight away but perhaps modded to allow people to post within guidleines? Most common ones are sore knees and shin splints, what is a doctor going to say to somebody about this? 'don't run'. What harm is there in experienced runs letting peopl know they should perhaps look at their running style instead?

Ryder

Have to agree with that. A lot of members of cycling/ ART get injured.....with the same pattern. Within reason, and with disclaimers etc, advice about the common injuries could be given safetly

MaroonTam

I agree that a lot of discussions tend to die out pretty quickly, but i am not sure that over modding is the cause.

I certainly feel that Kiwirunner's blog on Iten was the best content we have seen for a long time.

(with no intention of stirring up a hornets nest) I think that the level of discussion started dropping around the time of the controversial threads when HunnyMonster was doing her M2M run. I think there was a lot of animosity about that time and some high quality contributors were lost as a result (inc. HM herself - I know she looks in, but contributes a lot less than she used to)
Just my opinion of course.

DustyBin

mloc123 wrote: »

I don't think its a lack of tri content, the forum has just gone to sh*t IMO. I think breaking it into all the sub forums certainly didn't help.

Look at the frontpage of it now, there are about 10 active threads today. Did we need a gear sub forum? Events and logs makes sense I guess.

The medical locks are another good point, maybe they don't all need to be locked straight away but perhaps modded to allow people to post within guidleines? Most common ones are sore knees and shin splints, what is a doctor going to say to somebody about this? 'don't run'. What harm is there in experienced runs letting peopl know they should perhaps look at their running style instead?

Great points made by mloc there.

Threads getting locked down before they get started has the knock on effect of people being reluctant to start a new thread for fear of it too being locked, which obviously means less new threads and less discussion.

The gear subthread has turned into a graveyard, three meaningless posts yesterday (sorry mloc & krusty - but ye could have sent each other a text as handy ) and one post today.

Any of the interesting (should that read 'controversial'?) threads never get a chance. People don't want to stick there necks out and post on here anymore.

We lost Honeymonster and tunney long ago, who else is there left to give triathlon advice? I've even started lurking on the cycling forum :eek:

DustyBin

tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056175968

Look no over modding over on cycling. A training and racing related thread that covers sitting on the line. Illness and injury are part and parcel of training. Overreaching brings risks. It's managing these that are important and overcoming challenges that improves us.

It's been a while since ART started it's slide into uselessness but it's defintely there and still sinking.

tunney's writing is always provocative, but ignore the red mist and read it again, he makes a lot of sense and is saying what many others are thinking

mloc123

DustyBin wrote: »

I've even started lurking on the cycling forum :eek:

Its a sad day when there is more relevant talk over on cycling alright.

ThisRegard

Probably the time of year too, the more casual runner are probably still sitting at home in the evenings and weekends nice and cosy. As the evenings get brighter and weather gets better I'm sure it will get more active. The cycling forum is the same, it's pretty quiet compared to how it is during the summer.

RayCun

DustyBin wrote: »

The gear subthread has turned into a graveyard, three meaningless posts yesterday (sorry mloc & krusty - but ye could have sent each other a text as handy ) and one post today.

gear subforum is supposed to be a graveyard, better three meaningless posts on there than three meaningless posts on the main forum page prompting complaints about the standard of discussion going to **** and the rare good thread disappearing too quickly :rolleyes:

DustyBin

RayCun wrote: »

gear subforum is supposed to be a graveyard, better three meaningless posts on there than three meaningless posts on the main forum page prompting complaints about the standard of discussion going to **** and the rare good thread disappearing too quickly :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: yourself
If it goes up on the main page I tend to read it, there is so little going on in the gear sub-forum I've stopped reading that
If you've got some golden nuggets of information that you want to preserve and present to future newbiw forum users then a wiki is probably more suitable
Get the posts back onto the main page to keep the forum flowing

Also, six stickies at the top of the events forum - how many of them now need to be cut loose?
This crack of having a click button poll on each race without content or comment is a pain in the a**e as well

Krusty_Clown

I find that as you gain more experience in your particular sport, and spend longer spans of time reading ART posts, your needs change, and you no longer feel the need to read or contribute to threads related to those newer to the sport, particularly when you have read and contributed to that discussion so many times previously. Not any form of elitism here, it's just that other posters who have gone through the transition from non-runner to runner (or triathlete) more recently, will have more to contribute and identify more with an individual's set of specific struggles or triumphs.

So we look for a different type of thread, a different type of discussion. It can seem like the caliber of the discussion is shifting, however, it is more likely that it is our needs as individuals that have changed. It's not you, it's me. I've changed. (I should be writing for Cosmopolitan).

shotgunmcos

+1 no disrespect to Mods, but its is modded rather heavily nowadays Injury is part and parcel with an endurance sport. So long as there is no request or discussin of legal or medical advise whats wrong with general addvice or discussion.

I wanted to start a thread on overtraining but the current environment put me off

robinph

RayCun wrote: »

gear subforum is supposed to be a graveyard, better three meaningless posts on there than three meaningless posts on the main forum page prompting complaints about the standard of discussion going to **** and the rare good thread disappearing too quickly :rolleyes:

Exactly, the whole point of the gear forum is to keep stuff in the one place. Then rather than a new thread about Garmins every week because the previous thread is now on page 17 of the main ART forum, there is a thread on the first page where people can post their questions. Although the mega thread may be a bit unneeded now there is a whole forum for Garmin questions to play in.

I do keep out of the training logs forum, but that is just because it bores me, and I'm sure I learnt a bit more from peoples training back in the day when the posts were on the main ART forum. But I really don't see too much of a problem in here...well other than all the bleeding tables. :mad:

RayCun

I don't see why a general thread on overtraining would be modded. Even a thread on "this is the kind of injury you can get from running or triathlon, and these are things you can do to avoid it" would probably be fine (like ecoli's thread), because that would be sticking to general advice. The injury threads that get modded are the ones that ask for specific advice on a particular problem (even when they pretend that's not what they're doing :rolleyes:) because they're inviting a diagnosis over the internet.

donothoponpop

mod

On medical stuff being locked
Boards.ie policy is to lock all medical/injury stuff. Its a personal bugbear of mine, contrary to popular opinion none of the mods get off on locking stuff or banning posters. I've suggested before that we have a "best practice" advice on what to do when injured, but have been told its not a runner. On the suggestion we let them run for a bit, and then lock, its either black or white I'm afraid.

On excessive moderation of threads
There is a huge amount of commercialism hitting this forum recently. This is taking up the largest amount of moderating time, there are many people who want to use the forum to shill their product, website, practice, event, whatever. Its spelled out in the forum what is acceptable promotion, but this is constantly tested. Don't know if because people use Facebook to shill all the time, but I'm not happy for it to happen here.

U]On Stats[/U]
There used to be a stats counter mods could see, its password protected now. When I joined as a mod (about a year ago or so), from memory, the forum was about 15th most popular on Boards. Its now eighth most popular (latest stats posted on a mod site), and there is a marked increase in readership. Anyone who wants to check versus the Good Ole Days, do a search by date. A couple of years back, five or six threads a day was the norm (with varying degrees of quality, as now).

On Content
The forum is user-content driven, you lazy sh*tes.

/mod

RayCun

donothoponpop wrote: »

Anyone who wants to check versus the Good Ole Days, do a search by date. A couple of years back, five or six threads a day was the norm (with varying degrees of quality, as now).

This week, two years ago

donothoponpop

mod

Overmodding

And (separately) on the charge of being scared to post content for fear of overmodding, I'm baffled. Show me a single instance of where we (or I) have been zealous is snipping something that was worthy of proper discussion.

None of the mods are perfect, and I'm certainly not, but at the end of the day its a hobby, you make mistakes, and if I'm doing something wrong, show me, and I'll try and rectify it. But something that bugs the hell out of me is when people complain about something without first trying to make it better themselves. If you don't like the content on the forum, either show me an instance where similar stuff has been snipped, or start the damn fresh new contend thread yourself.

/mod

PDCAT

RayCun wrote: »

This week, two years ago

Noticed on Ray's link that there was some discussion on Shin Splints two years ago on the forum. Approx 9 posts. This definitely wouldn't get off the ground now. Has there been a change in policy in those two years?

menoscemo

PDCAT wrote: »

Noticed on Ray's link that there was some discussion on Shin Splints two years ago on the forum. Approx 9 posts. This definitely wouldn't get off the ground now. Has there been a change in policy in those two years?

There's also one on dodgy knees on the first page which wouldn't get a look in nowadays.

donothoponpop

PDCAT wrote: »

Noticed on Ray's link that there was some discussion on Shin Splints two years ago on the forum. Approx 9 posts. This definitely wouldn't get off the ground now. Has there been a change in policy in those two years?

Where? This one? One of my first posts on boards was looking for help on plantar Facilitis, it got snipped (in 2008).

menoscemo wrote: »

There's also one on dodgy knees on the first page which wouldn't get a look in nowadays.

Why? Nothing wrong with that post.

menoscemo

donothoponpop wrote: »

Where? This one? One of my first posts on boards was looking for help on plantar Facilitis, it got snipped (in 2008).

Nope, he means this one

donothoponpop wrote: »

Why? Nothing wrong with that post.

I'm talking about that one

Are you seeing the same thing when we click ray's link?

RoyMcC

On injury-related threads generally I suggested to the mods of the day a couple of years back (inc. Tingle & HM) that a workable compromise might be to steer people to a reputable external sports injury website; with the usual disclaimer 'Boards.ie are not responsible for the content of external websites' or such like.

I think that this was considered but was kicked out by the supermods as not workable.

If this really is causing so much grief to people then the present mods might look at this again?

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

This week, two years ago

Some great threads there, it must be said!

donothoponpop

menoscemo wrote: »

Are you seeing the same thing when we click ray's link?

Think I'm seeing a different page (mine would have deleted threads buffering numbers).

In any case, just as well, I'm not going to specifically comment, as I don't want to be second guessing the previous mods, but don't see much wrong with them.

Yes a "disclaimer best-practice" is a good idea RoyMcC, although as you say I believe it has been shot down.

Perhaps a body of injury prevention posts, like ecoli is doing, might be an idea to steer people towards?

hunnymonster

MaroonTam wrote: »

(inc. HM herself - I know she looks in, but contributes a lot less than she used to)

Just because I'm not posting so much, don't worry I'm big brothering/santa clausing/ogre under the bed for you all still :-) I'm bringing a screaming baby around in June for babysitting for anyone who misbehaves!

DustyBin wrote: »

tunney's writing is always provocative, but ignore the red mist and read it again, he makes a lot of sense and is saying what many others are thinking

+1. If you need solid information, not guesswork or opinion, Tunney is the only guy. He doesn't tolerate fools and speaks very directly but I can't praise the quality of his posts enough.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

So we look for a different type of thread, a different type of discussion. It can seem like the caliber of the discussion is shifting, however, it is more likely that it is our needs as individuals that have changed. It's not you, it's me. I've changed. (I should be writing for Cosmopolitan).

This is it exactly. Couldn't agree more. Also as you/me are such a big group of posters, it's difficult to get a balance. There are always new runners who need basic advice, there are always plodders like myself more interested in the craic than performance and then there are the elites, I know the other mods are keen to shift the balance to include a lot more elite talk but I think ART is a living thing and we are what we are C25k right though to Tunney :-) That's just my opine though, not an official position.


Now with my mod hat on, we're not going to get anywhere with the medical advice thing. It's been brought up time and time again behind the scene and boards.ie, rightly have to protect themselves. Drives everyone nuts but that's the reality. Any other suggestions that people have, we're always happy to hear from people. It's difficult to get concensus on such a large forum but we will do our best to get the best forum we can for as many people as possible. Feel free to pm all the mods at any stage with a suggestion as that's the best way to make sure that we deal with it.

shotgunmcos

Well hello there stranger
** hugs HM**... **checks under bed for Ogre**..

Fi H

As someone who has only recently started using the board I have to say that I think theres a lot to be said for this thread!

There are a lot of people asking the same questions over and over again and what has surprised me is that people have continued to answer the same questions. The two main ones I have seen are:
1. orthotics - running with them, wearing them, where to get them, good v bad. When i started using the board there was nearly a post a day about them
2. what to do when starting off at running/ tri/ ARs

Part of me was thinking would it not be better to move the longest thread to the gear section or training logs and then any time anyone asked the question just direct them to the discussion and lock the thread straight away.

RoyMcC

Fi H wrote: »

Part of me was thinking would it not be better to move the longest thread to the gear section or training logs and then any time anyone asked the question just direct them to the discussion and lock the thread straight away.

Thing is there's only a finite number of topics but infinite variation on each. One of the good things (I think anyway) about this forum is that everybody with a query is able to get a personalised answer, no matter that it's been queried 100 times before. If the answer is black or white then it's probably on a sticky.

donothoponpop

RoyMcC wrote: »

Thing is there's only a finite number of topics but infinite variation on each. One of the good things (I think anyway) about this forum is that everybody with a query is able to get a personalised answer, no matter that it's been queried 100 times before. If the answer is black or white then it's probably on a sticky.

That's the best thing, and what ultimately keeps the forum fresh. Putting the "best" answers to FAQ's doesn't work, you get a better answer when its specific. New faces come along, the engine of the forum is those who calmly and patiently keep helping out by answering.

Nwm2

If you don't read ART for your daily fix, what do you read?

Personally I spend 10-20x more time reading Slowtwitch than here, that's a change which has happened over the last few months I think.

I think that any forum has a sweet spot to hit between too many threads/day and too few threads/day.

ART has too few threads/day IMO and this reduces visitor numbers, post numbers and further reduces the threads/day count.

I see 3 reasons for the low thread count. In no order:

1. Boards tends to discourage lots of threads by, for example, creating a super-thread such as "1st Triathlon in 2011". I see the reasons for this, but disagree with it. Following such a thread is a nightmare and its boring and discourages newbies from posting new threads.

2. Boards in general, and ART in particular, is more heavily modded than any other forum I spend my time on. Like a night and day difference. It's all very well making sure that every post in a thread is on topic, but it gets pretty sterile. But, hey, that's Boards.

3. The new sub-forum didn't help.

donothoponpop

I'm getting two things from this discussion:

1. Several people think this forum is too heavily moderated. No-one yet has given a specific example, it would be helpful if you did.

2. The vast majority who say they find the content boring are Tri folk. Last time this was looked at, it was felt Tri was too small for its own forum, perhaps now it might be time to revisit this idea?

--amadeus--

I was trying to stay out of this conversation but I can't help myself... :P

Like a lot of the "old guard" I virtually never post in here anymore - if it weren't for the Limerick Pacers thread I probably wouldn't be here now. And I think that there is a rose tinted glasses element; as mentioned above the amount of content that is directly applicable to you drops off as you get more experienced so a running forum that seemed great when you start can seem stale and dull after a year of running and it's not that it's changed, you have. So grumbles from the old farts that "things ain't what they used to be" can be given the attention they deserve!

That said things so many people are saying it that you can't ignore it. Worse again so many more people have voted with thier keyboards and just don't come here or post anymore so I think it would be naive to just assume that all is rosy. And I think it's a mistake to just point to increased post counts as a measure of the forum health. The reason for that is that this place is amazing in it's capacity to draw people in to post a number once per day in a table. That pushes teh forum stats through the roof (how many new posts does teh 1000 mile thread alone get in a week, for example) but it diminishes the value of "forum activity" as a measure of it's health.

Looking back at the 2 year old link posted it is really clear that there was a wider variety of discussion back then. With a huge running boom and a website growing exponentially this forum should be humming with activity and that diversity and it's not. Lots of people are blaming "over-moderation" and DP (rightly) is looking for examples. TBH I don't think it's the kind of thing you can give concrete examples of. It is more an attitude than a set of specific actions.

For example the vast and overwhelming majority of runners are - and always will be - average plodders. So the vast and overwhelming content on here should - you would expect - cater to that demographic. And yet we are constantly hearing about plans to improve content at "the sharp end" (it was mentioned in this thread). As it happens faster content is of interest to me but sub 3 marathon threads (for example) appeal to less than 10% (based on results) of teh marathon running population. A sub 10 IM is again a tiny fraction of triathletes. By all means that sort of thing should be encouraged but there seems to be a concerted drive to bring the forum "upmarket" and that will reduce the range of content because it appeals to such a smaller number of people.

I also have - as the Mods know - an issue with the strict "no commercial interactivity" rule. Looking through the last few days posts it looks like there was a kerfuffle over someone shilling VFF shoes. All content was snipped and teh poster was banned, which is grand. But back in the day people who came on to shill were encouraged to give to the community - Amphibian King gave compression gear for review, Pearl Izumi gave trainers & tech tops as well as dedicated Boards only prizes in a race. By slamming the door on commerce you lock out that kind of opportunity.

Waffle waffle - what am I saying? DeV likens Mods to Janitors - they clean up the crap while everyone else gets on with whatever they are doing. IMO over moderating isn't just about being too quick with a lock and a ban, it's about trying to drive the forum in a given direction rather than letting the really important people (the posters) just get on with it.

robinph

Did someone say there was too few threads/ posts a day on ART? Pretty much all threads on the first page have been posted in today, where is the lack of traffic that people are complaining about? Or do people want AH levels of traffic where there is a million new threads a day talking about "yore ma" and other such rubbish?

RayCun

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Looking back at the 2 year old link posted it is really clear that there was a wider variety of discussion back then. With a huge running boom and a website growing exponentially this forum should be humming with activity and that diversity and it's not.

That's not what I'm seeing.

In the week from the 1st to the 7th of February 2011*, 32 threads had their last post, and there were 313 replies to those threads. (Actually 33 threads, but I didn't count the Off Topic thread)

In the same week 2 years ago, there were 35 threads- 370 replies

So the main forum was slightly busier two years ago - but a lot of those threads would now be in Events, or Gear & Equipment. Add in the activity in those subfora and you get another 25 or so threads, and a couple of hundred more replies.

If the subfora were abandoned the main page would be much busier, but that would bring back the other problem, of interesting topics disappearing off the front page.

*this avoids all the stickies, and the 1000 mile thread

--amadeus--

RayCun wrote: »

That's not what I'm seeing.

In the week from the 1st to the 7th of February 2011*, 32 threads had their last post, and there were 313 replies to those threads. (Actually 33 threads, but I didn't count the Off Topic thread)

In the same week 2 years ago, there were 35 threads- 370 replies

So the main forum was slightly busier two years ago - but a lot of those threads would now be in Events, or Gear & Equipment. Add in the activity in those subfora and you get another 25 or so threads, and a couple of hundred more replies.

If the subfora were abandoned the main page would be much busier, but that would bring back the other problem, of interesting topics disappearing off the front page.

*this avoids all the stickies, and the 1000 mile thread

Sorry, I was talking about the diversity of subjects not the number of threads. I'm amazed that 2 years on thread counts are so simaler, I would have expected far higher volumes now, given the site growth.

donothoponpop

Thank you for your reply amadeus, it is very useful for comparisons sake (you being a mod in the Good Old Days:)

--amadeus-- wrote: »

For example the vast and overwhelming majority of runners are - and always will be - average plodders. So the vast and overwhelming content on here should - you would expect - cater to that demographic. And yet we are constantly hearing about plans to improve content at "the sharp end" (it was mentioned in this thread). As it happens faster content is of interest to me but sub 3 marathon threads (for example) appeal to less than 10% (based on results) of teh marathon running population. A sub 10 IM is again a tiny fraction of triathletes. By all means that sort of thing should be encouraged but there seems to be a concerted drive to bring the forum "upmarket" and that will reduce the range of content because it appeals to such a smaller number of people.

Ecoli and myself have an expressed desire to start more conversation from the pointier end of racers here. From my own point of view, this is about learning and improvement. I wholeheartedly accept the majority of runners here lie somewhere in the C25k to the "should I join a club?" zone (I mean those terms loosely). This part of the forum works very well; there is mentoring, there is discussion, there are meet-ups, there is camaraderie. At the heart of this, there is improvement- the goal when you join this forum is to get better and faster, and there are numerous examples of people improving in a short time here.

My own view is that there's a perceived limit on the forum to this improvement- and I'd like to challenge that by helping focus a bit of attention on a neglected part, meaning that the learning curve should go right the way to the top. (I stress that any challenging I will be doing is only by (ab)using my status as a moderator to highlight certain threads and champion them). Posters can learn an awful lot about their own training from those more talented posters who frequent the forum (Bazman, Enduro, KiwiRunner, Thirtyfoot, etc) who are kind enough to spread some of their training knowledge around.


A side effect of this (partial of this, could be other things too) is that some of the banter and "chuminess" of the Good Old Days has fallen by the wayside. Certainly you amadeus (and Hunnymonster when she was more active) were greater championers of the "fun" side of the forum than I am.

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I also have - as the Mods know - an issue with the strict "no commercial interactivity" rule. Looking through the last few days posts it looks like there was a kerfuffle over someone shilling VFF shoes. All content was snipped and teh poster was banned, which is grand. But back in the day people who came on to shill were encouraged to give to the community - Amphibian King gave compression gear for review, Pearl Izumi gave trainers & tech tops as well as dedicated Boards only prizes in a race. By slamming the door on commerce you lock out that kind of opportunity.

Things are very different now than when you were moderating. Perhaps because of Facebook, certain posters think they can spam as much as they like- with the increase in viewership of this forum, once they get their message out there, even if they're snipped or banned, that's good enough to promote their goods/service/whatever. If you want to get specific on your case, you can PM me rather than thrash it out here. But I have to correct your above assertion- there is not a "no commercial interactivity" rule. Never was. Commercial race directors engage with posters who have questions about their races. Posters are allowed to recommend sports stores, physio's, whatever is of interest to forum members. What you don't take into consideration (very few do, they just see the snipping) is that several poster a week are signing up to ask "anyone hear about XXX product", or "where can I find info on XXX race?", and when we mods ask them if they have an interest to declare, they say that they are just a regular interested joe, no connection. Your example above, the VFF guys, did this, so you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, until it becomes obvious they are taking the p!ss, and annoying posters, and then it becomes a snipfest, which leads to "angry mod" posts (by the way, they were involved in this example).

So in short, behind the scenes, there is a large increase in the amount of stupid work mods have to do. We could let it go, but believe me (I know from the PM's) once you allow one RD, or shoestore, or website, a bit of leeway, there's a flood of PM's pointing to this and asking for similar treatment.

In the few years I've been posting on this forum, I've seen quite a few mods lose their enthusiasm for helping out on the site, somewhere there's a bar full of bitter, twisted ex-mods slurring "I coulda been a contender...", no doubt I'll be there very soon, but for the moment I see an awful lot more going for this forum than going against it, so I'll continue to kick against the pricks for a while longer yet.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for those who talk of excessive moderation hindering their posts, to give a concrete example. Or for someone from Tri to step forward and take the reins from the OP who was going to mentor a Tri-specific thread for those going sub 10hr Ironman.

pgmcpq

--amadeus-- wrote: »

As it happens faster content is of interest to me but sub 3 marathon threads (for example) appeal to less than 10% (based on results) of teh marathon running population. A sub 10 IM is again a tiny fraction of triathletes. By all means that sort of thing should be encouraged but there seems to be a concerted drive to bring the forum "upmarket" and that will reduce the range of content because it appeals to such a smaller number of people.

Just a small quibble with this - as a plodder I read the sub3 thread. I may never get close to it but I am still reading for what I can pick up. I am not going to contribute on it as I have nothing really to offer .... but I would not assume that it is of no interest to the rest of us.

RayCun

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Sorry, I was talking about the diversity of subjects not the number of threads. I'm amazed that 2 years on thread counts are so simaler, I would have expected far higher volumes now, given the site growth.

Yeah, but those numbers were for the main forum. There is about as much activity (more?) in Training Logs, and between them Events and Gear & Equipment are probably almost as busy as the main page.

hunnymonster

I'd add a third observation
3. The super/combo threads and sub fora are putting people off.

ecoli

pgmcpq wrote: »

Just a small quibble with this - as a plodder I read the sub3 thread. I may never get close to it but I am still reading for what I can pick up. I am not going to contribute on it as I have nothing really to offer .... but I would not assume that it is of no interest to the rest of us.

Bit late to the party on this one. Would encourage people to frequent these kinda threads however whether they are looking to break the times or not because can still learn training principles which can benefit your own training. If there is something you dont understand ask and perhaps the regular followers of the threads can answer your questions.
Personally I look at various articles on elite athletes and how they train. I dont expect to be challenging for international qualifying times or global success but it does not mean you cant learn from the reasoning behind things or even adapt the ideas to incorporate the ideas.

As Bill Bowerman said

"Gentlemen i invite you to become students of you events"
(famous US American coach)

donothoponpop

hunnymonster wrote: »

I'd add a third observation
3. The super/combo threads and sub fora are putting people off.

They were brought in specifically because (many) people were complaining that too many similar posts (on Garmin, for instance) every day, was shunting newer freasher threads off the main page. Not saying I disagree with you, but they were a function of complaint.

*Edit*^1st, 2nd, 3rd, GO MODS!

figs

I've never been the most frequent poster, but have been even less so these days. I think the "fun" element has gone out of this forum. Perhaps because it's got so many people now posting that the intimacy has been lost...

The simple answer might be to get tunny back! One post and he generates a flurry of activity that's been missing for ages!