Midweek tv3-Are you better off on dole?

yrwhu8jxtni06a

Just on now,shocking stuff,proves you are better off scrounging getting supplements instead of working thanks to gov taxes/levies

Video- http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=midweek

The_Kew_Tour

Not for everyone.

You would swear that everyone on the Dole is just a lazy arse.

markymark21

Yeh watch it now.. shocking stuff. I don't there are very many countries were you can actually earn more money sitting on your hole then you will out working.

And if Labour get in we've no hope of getting the cuts our welfare system badly needs

landsleaving

If Xposé wasn't enough of an insult to the intelligence of Irish people...

Fortune_Cookie

I probably would be better off on the dole. I was recently made part-time again as sales have gone down since Christmas. Sick to death of this bloody recession. I was first made part-time at the start of 2009, stayed that way until August 2010 when I was switched back to full. Only starting to get used to the extra money when they made me part-time again at the beginning of this month.:mad:

bluecatmorgana

Selene Repulsive Sequence wrote: »

Just on now,shocking stuff,proves you are better off scrounging getting supplements instead of working thanks to gov taxes/levies

I missed it, could you quote the figures please?

Badgermonkey

Selene Repulsive Sequence wrote: »

scrounging getting supplements instead of working

It is a problem without doubt but I'd be pretty certain the vast majority of the almost half a million currently unemployed would take a job tomorrow if offered it.

Absurdum

oh yay Eddie "Borrow as much as you can and buy as many houses as you can in 2006" Hobbs is on it to tell us how much we're ****ed

Stinicker

TV3 scraping the bottom of the barrel again, its not the unemployed peoples fault that Fianna Fail destroyed the country and there simply is no jobs there. With the minimum wage cut, cost of fuel, high taxes to bail out the Fianna Fail cronies and banks, it is only a fool would go out to work today for a penny less than €12-€13/hour. What is needed is wage subsidies on a sliding scale to financially reward those people who do the crap jobs. Stop all Non-Nationals having access to JSA, give them JSB until their stamps run out and then cut them off.

Ricardo G

Badgermonkey wrote: »

It is a problem without doubt but I'd be pretty certain the vast majority of the almost half a million currently unemployed would take a job tomorrow if offered it.

Agreed. The cost of living has risen and yet most people want the social welfare cut

Autosport

Are we going to get anymore levys to pay? that Universal charge is shocking high if we do have to pay more i'm leaving this country

LookingFor

Hobbs has no idea.

Online fulfillment for welfare?

The whole point of having people come in to sign is to avoid people claiming benefit and then going abroad (working) and continuing to claim.

The current arrangement isn't ideal, but his approach would see fraud go through the roof.

I believe they are thinking about telephone signing - where you could sign on from a whitelisted irish phone number using voice recognition based on samples you give in-office so it can tell it's you and you're in the country - but I'm not sure if that would be totally fraud proof either. Someone could presumably call from abroad with the help of a friend, chaining two phones together or using some other intermediary.

On the note of the programme, I have a lot of sympathy for people on low salaries. I know a few, and it is really disheartening and frustrating for them. For example, going to the doctor, no medical card, and having to opt for the 'cheaper'/less effective medication - if you were on the card, doctors will prescribe you the best without a second thought, knowing the government picks up the tab in full. Stuff like that...it's understandable why some feel bitter about being just about the watermark to receive nothing but not so high that they're living comfortably. Particularly after Jan, one of my friends came close to throwing in the towel because they are fed up of working so hard for such marginal payoff.

Absurdum

Autosport wrote: »

that Universal charge is shocking high

well the universe is a pretty expensive place to run, buddy

veryangryman

LookingFor wrote: »

Hobbs has no idea.

Online fulfillment for welfare?

The whole point of having people come in to sign is to avoid people claiming benefit and then going abroad (working) and continuing to claim.

The current arrangement isn't ideal, but his approach would see fraud go through the roof.

I believe they are thinking about telephone signing - where you could sign on from a whitelisted irish phone number using voice recognition based on samples you give in-office so it can tell it's you and you're in the country - but I'm not sure if that would be totally fraud proof either. Someone could presumably call from abroad with the help of a friend, chaining two phones together or using some other intermediary.

Better idea. Biometric recognition (the technology is here/on its way) for the site which can easily check what country the internet connection is from. Do a pilate scheme in conjunction with existing system (to cater for the old and knacks who dont know what a laptop is outside of selling it at Clara market) and eventually roll it out full whack

Killer Pigeon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not for everyone.

You would swear that everyone on the Dole is just a lazy arse.

A huge amount of them are though. Many people expect the government to wait on them hand and foot, especially the ones who live on those council estates, unmarried mothers and the like. Many of them don't bother even trying to get a job. They're just a unnecessary burden on the hard working tax payers in this country. They should be made get off there behinds and earn their keep. People who suggest that these stragglers aren't prevalent in the social welfare system are really quite naive. The country would be in a lot better state without them.

pragmatic1

The thing is in some parts of the country there is literally no jobs. The vast majority of people on the dole would rather be working.

MagicSean

It's not just the dole. There are many people who would have a greater take home pay if they had a pay cut. The tax system here is retarded.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

At least yer one on the panel is a bit of a looker...

.."Id be better of on her hole"

easyeason3

Being realistic about it, yeah some people would probably be better off financially on the dole taking pay cuts, extra tax & cut hours into account. That doesn't mean they want to be signing on though.

And there's a hell of a lot of people on the dole that would prefer not to be. There is an element signing on that probably have no other ambition but they are a very small minority.

Ideo

Stinicker wrote: »

Stop all Non-Nationals having access to JSA, give them JSB until their stamps run out and then cut them off.

Blah blah blah blah blah, typical shite talk. Why not do the same with everybody on the JSA? Only give them back what they put in??

LisaLee

I really don't like the way the woman presenting is interviewing the guests. She was so patronising to the nurse who was job-sharing.

The woman had had her hours cut, her pay cut ditto her husband and they had their medical card taken away. But its ok because ""Ah sure, at least you're still in the game."

What cloud did the presenter fall off of?

Eddie Hobbs 'Finance Expert' - What are TV3 on about?!

Fact of the matter is, the jobs aren't here so people are travelling for work. So there are less people to pay taxes in order to support the welfare system. Its a shambles. :mad:

Killer Pigeon

If the amount of money people are earning is less than the amount people get on the dole then the dole should be cut, simple as. It'll make people more eager to get a job and prevent laziness. You can't have people becoming over reliant on the social welfare system.

LookingFor

veryangryman wrote: »

Better idea. Biometric recognition (the technology is here/on its way) for the site which can easily check what country the internet connection is from.

Technically what does that involve?

I didn't know biometric stuff had anything to do with geolocation.

As far as I know the only way to do that is just checking the IP address, but that's very easy for someone to spoof. If there are other ways involving new client and/or server-side technologies, what do they cost? (And who would pay for it?).

And how do you prove the person at the other end is the person in question? There's where biometrics come in perhaps, but again, I don't doubt these things can be faked or signatures provided remotely from a machine elsewhere using a proxy here in Ireland or something.

Stinicker

Ideo wrote: »

Blah blah blah blah blah, typical shite talk. Why not do the same with everybody on the JSA? Only give them back what they put in??

It is not shíte talk there is so many non-nationals here on Jobseekers Allowance it is a major drain on the countries finances, there is a 3 month wait, I know, but there is also massive fraud going on with foreigners milking the system. As I stated JSB is for those who have contributed and people who paid their PRSI can get it.

A system that will payout money and benefits to people in from Eastern Europe and Africa who have never worked here or contributed yet refuses to give people who were self employed a penny is wrong and in tough times charity begins at home. Welfare Tourism like this needs to be clamped down on immediately.

tomas_f

someone tell if i'm being stupid, but they quoted a weekly welfare income of around 580euro

is that not like a 45k salary gross.........wtf???

f@~kin madness...

yrwhu8jxtni06a

tomas_f wrote: »

someone tell if i'm being stupid, but they quoted a weekly welfare income of around 580euro

is that not like a 45k salary gross.........wtf???

f@~kin madness...

Our system is different from uk,you would be right,giving all supplements we have,i often have uk friends baffled about how generous our system can be.

yrwhu8jxtni06a

Video link at start thread

tomas_f

Selene Repulsive Sequence wrote: »

Our system is different from uk,you would be right,giving all supplements we have,i often have uk friends baffled about how generous our system can be.

i have lived in the uk (born/bred Irish) for last 8 years (have emigrated back to ireland last year) and i am stunned at the money that the govt hands out.

i was telling some friends in uk about our minimum welfare payment of >200eur pw........trust me they ain't happy about loaning us 8 billion

PeterIanStaker

I'm on the dole at the moment, but I want to work, I apply for numerous jobs each week, and am determined to find a job in an area even vaguely related to what I'm qualified in, even just to spite all the naysayers and kick against the gloom and doom bulls hit.

But, there are sweatpants wearing scrotes up and down the land who have never worked in their lives and never will. Makes me want to not bother my hole trying sometimes, to be honest.

gurramok

tomas_f wrote: »

someone tell if i'm being stupid, but they quoted a weekly welfare income of around 580euro

is that not like a 45k salary gross.........wtf???

f@~kin madness...

Kids. The more you have the more you get that is hugely disproportionate to what is needed. This issue has been debated to death here before with facts and figures thrown in.

Basically if you have kids(more the merrier), rent and are out of a job(or one of the infamous single mothers) you will get nice generous Rent Supplement to help you get by plus other benefits. To obtain the equivalent by working would require a very handsome salary indeed.

Pauleta

Ive been on and off the dole for a couple of years now. In my line of work its hard to get something permanent. But i actually agree with a lot thats been said here. The dole is way too much. I live with mammy and daddy and mine gets slightly reduced but if i really had to, i could live with about €100 less than i get. I can afford smokes all week and i get a few cans in maybe 3 nights a week or have 1 night out. I shouldnt be able to afford luxuries. Its not the point in social welfare. Its suppose to be to have enough food, clothes and have a roof over your head. I have €45 until next tuesday that is disposable cash. I shouldnt have disposable cash

landsleaving

Pauleta wrote: »

In my line of work its hard to get something permanent.

This and the picture of Fat Tony...

I'm on to you

panda100

The problem really isn't the dole as far as Im concened. Some of my friends are on it, through no fault of their own, and their self esteem is shot. They would much rather be a productive, working member of our society, than hearing very unfair generalisations about them being 'scroungers'. Also I have worked beside 'non nationals' for years in this country, they've paid their taxes, they are fully entitled to welfare benefits,but thats a debate for another thread!

As far as Im concrned wages are too low for many jobs at the moment. I went for an interview a few weeks ago for a private nursing home and they wanted to pay me €9 an hour for very demanding work.I work for €13 an hour at the moment and I can barely get buy, let alone save. Wages should be brought up for a decent standard of living not cut to €7 an hour, or soon we'll all be working for free

I was watching TG4 at the time and not TV3, but I can see from this thread that it was a pile of sh*te and detracting people from the real financial defrauders of this country, corporations, ff, bankers,property developers etc etc.

danoriordan1402

I get the princely sum of 45ish Euro a week on JobSeekers - thanks to the means testing as my other half is working...
I left this country in the mid 90's to get work after qualifying - returned here to a decent job in 2006 only for the construction industry to hit the toilet in the last couple of years so engineering wasn't really in big demand again. I see the dole office once a month to sign on and would guess that maybe 75% in there are lost causes, sucked into and abusing the system and will do all their life.

I get so depressed going in there as I have worked practically all my life - but no more, picked up a contract now in the Middle East and I'm off, turban packed - this country will only get worse in the next 3 years, new faces in the dail with do f**k all for the person who wants to work.

snausbaby

The only people i have heard of playing the system have been Irish. Nixers is an Irish expression

Personally, i also think it is the add-ons that cost us.

Also think it is ridiculous that 4 days work = no money irrespective of the amount earned; if you are on the minimum wage you can be down quite a lot if you have partner/kids - so hardly encourages work ethic! If it was a set amount where money earned is deducted from balance until you are earning that amount would make more sense. I think they do something like that in the UK.

My neighbour is managing on P/T work with JA for days when there is no work ; no medical card, no RA, no anything else. Wears jumpers, wooly hats in the house and shops at Lidl. Goes out once or twice a year at most.

Know someone else on JA + extras - pub daily, and two week holiday in the sun with family last year!

yrwhu8jxtni06a

Program didn't mention back to education allowance oddly enough.

Ricardo G

I worked for 10 years, started when i was 19 full time and lost my job last year therefore i think i am entitled to social welfare until i find another job but what bothers me most is the "scroungers" that never worked a day in their lives and are given rent allowance, full dole, childrens allownace, a council house etc etc. People that ride the sysyem like that should get nothing imo, the work is there (wages might not be fantastic) but people are spoilt by the welfare system so there is no "need to work" Worse again is the fact that self employed people are not entitled to a scrap these people who have worked hard and employed locally are just treated like dirt !!

The_Kew_Tour

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

A huge amount of them are though. Many people expect the government to wait on them hand and foot, especially the ones who live on those council estates, unmarried mothers and the like. Many of them don't bother even trying to get a job. They're just a unnecessary burden on the hard working tax payers in this country. They should be made get off there behinds and earn their keep. People who suggest that these stragglers aren't prevalent in the social welfare system are really quite naive. The country would be in a lot better state without them.

What % would you say are on the"lazy" bracket then??

mickydoomsux

Ricardo G wrote: »

I worked for 10 years, started when i was 19 full time and lost my job last year therefore i think i am entitled to social welfare until i find another job but what bothers me most is the "scroungers" that never worked a day in their lives and are given rent allowance, full dole, childrens allownace, a council house etc etc. People that ride the sysyem like that should get nothing imo, the work is there (wages might not be fantastic) but people are spoilt by the welfare system so there is no "need to work" Worse again is the fact that self employed people are not entitled to a scrap these people who have worked hard and employed locally are just treated like dirt !!

Welcome to "social inclusion".

rasper

tomas_f wrote: »

i have lived in the uk (born/bred Irish) for last 8 years (have emigrated back to ireland last year) and i am stunned at the money that the govt hands out.

i was telling some friends in uk about our minimum welfare payment of >200eur pw........trust me they ain't happy about loaning us 8 billion

Our friends in the the UK aint lending the Irish citizen anything, rather they are keeping their banks stable coz they made bad loans to Irish banks who made bad loans etc.
Best thing they could do for the f**ked taxpayer is not loan us anything for us to put back into their banks, the country has been sold out and if I hear about our UK and EU buddies helping us out with a few bob I may just lose it

Tayla

rasper wrote: »

Our friends in the the UK aint lending the Irish citizen anything, rather they are keeping their banks stable coz they made bad loans to Irish banks who made bad loans etc.
Best thing they could do for the f**ked taxpayer is not loan us anything for us to put back into their banks, the country has been sold out and if I hear about our UK and EU buddies helping us out with a few bob I may just lose it

Well said Rasper, it drives me mad aswell, we're getting bailed out are we? don't bloody think so......

Halo Kitty

After working for 23yrs for the same company they went in to liquidation , 5 days later i find myself on the door of the social welfare office...today i received E188.. Am i meant to be thankful for that after paying my taxes etc all these yrs....

gurramok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not for everyone.

You would swear that everyone on the Dole is just a lazy arse.

Badgermonkey wrote: »

It is a problem without doubt but I'd be pretty certain the vast majority of the almost half a million currently unemployed would take a job tomorrow if offered it.

panda100 wrote: »

The problem really isn't the dole as far as Im concened. Some of my friends are on it, through no fault of their own, and their self esteem is shot. They would much rather be a productive, working member of our society, than hearing very unfair generalisations about them being 'scroungers'.

I was watching TG4 at the time and not TV3, but I can see from this thread that it was a pile of sh*te and detracting people from the real financial defrauders of this country, corporations, ff, bankers,property developers etc etc.

The TV3 headline about the dole is indeed misleading. Their examples were solely for people either unemployed with kids renting or lone parents with kids renting. There were NO examples of people who were single with no kids or those living at home or indeed those with mortgages.

Basically if you are not working, have no kids and are not renting, the generalisation that you are better off on the dole probably does not apply.

If you are not working, have kids and are renting, the generalisation that you are better off on welfare(not just dole but OPFP) is true as the figures are correct.

briann.

Can't believe there still isn't at least means to test the dole more stringently and try and catch all the chancers(which is probably most of them tbf) out. It's crazy that these scroungers are on 188euro per week now when people during the celtic tiger were only on 150euro on the dole.

Why are we being punished for being honest workers? these people who say "oh i worked for 30 year now ive fallen on hard times" are taking the piss out of us, they love having their lie-ons till midday each day, maybe even get up in time to catch the end of "This Morning" whilst we're out at the crack of dawn standing in the rain waiting for the bus to do an honest days work. :rolleyes:

whiteonion

The most obvious solution is to only pay out some sort of dole to people who paid into the system. There problem solved. I'm a genius.

Tayla

Pauleta wrote: »

Ive been on and off the dole for a couple of years now. In my line of work its hard to get something permanent. But i actually agree with a lot thats been said here. The dole is way too much. I live with mammy and daddy and mine gets slightly reduced but if i really had to, i could live with about €100 less than i get. I can afford smokes all week and i get a few cans in maybe 3 nights a week or have 1 night out. I shouldnt be able to afford luxuries. Its not the point in social welfare. Its suppose to be to have enough food, clothes and have a roof over your head. I have €45 until next tuesday that is disposable cash. I shouldnt have disposable cash

Yes the dole is too much for people who have never worked, never worked during the boom and still won't work if the country picks itself up....

But there are plenty of families out there who can barely survive on the dole and just because you can afford luxuries doesn't mean that the dole is too much, it means that it is too much for certain people (like yourself) who don't actually need it because you don't have bills to pay.

easyeason3

briann. wrote: »

Can't believe there still isn't at least means to test the dole more stringently and try and catch all the chancers(which is probably most of them tbf) out. It's crazy that these scroungers are on 188euro per week now when people during the celtic tiger were only on 150euro on the dole.

Why are we being punished for being honest workers? these people who say "oh i worked for 30 year now ive fallen on hard times" are taking the piss out of us, they love having their lie-ons till midday each day, maybe even get up in time to catch the end of "This Morning" whilst we're out at the crack of dawn standing in the rain waiting for the bus to do an honest days work. :rolleyes:

Here Trollie...

Here Trollie...

There's a good Trollie, come on out from under that bridge so we can savage you.

johnn

desperate for "thanks" are we :rolleyes: trying to have an intelligent discussion here

I bet if they were to cut the dole by 70% you'd find a lot of people sitting on it getting up off their arses and getting jobs fairly sharpish.

markymark21

johnn wrote: »

desperate for "thanks" are we :rolleyes: trying to have an intelligent discussion here

I bet if they were to cut the dole by 70% you'd find a lot of people sitting on it getting up off their arses and getting jobs fairly sharpish.

www.jobs.ie and other job sites are loaded with employers looking for people.. These sites aren't exactly bare

Its the young people (my generation) that annoy me. Its fair enough that a single mum or an older person may find it hand to get work, but young people shouldn't be un-employed. A bit of initative and desire goes a long way IMO and to be honest I feel most people my age are quite happy to collect their €190 and have a few cans on the weekend

Halo Kitty

Social welfare has been cut over the past 2 yrs from E208 to E188 and still the queues are growing...

easyeason3

johnn wrote: »

desperate for "thanks" are we :rolleyes: trying to have an intelligent discussion here

I bet if they were to cut the dole by 70% you'd find a lot of people sitting on it getting up off their arses and getting jobs fairly sharpish.

No I'm not desperate for thanks, my thanks count is very healthy & growing at a steady pace.


And where do you think these people are going to find jobs if you cut the dole by 70%? Do you honestly think it's fair for someone to work for 23 years to be made redundant so they can make an attempt to survive on peanuts?

Johnn I find it hilarious that you use the word 'intelligent' in your post when your post is anything but that.