100 euros a day to put up election posters

Corsendonk

I was talking to two lads that I know that are putting up posters for candidates. One is working for FG, the other lad for Labour. Both are getting 100euros cash in hand for each days work. One of the lads is on the dole and the other lad wouldn't be the declaring kind.:D


Now it seems to me that we don't scrutinise election spending enough if candidates can pay out that much ready cash and no paper trail exists. Do parties encourage the black economy when it suits them?

Im Only 71Kg

i wouldn't believe a word of it.

GSF

Do they get danger money for touching toxic FF posters?

seamus

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

i wouldn't believe a word of it.

+1

More than likely this job is contracted out to company who bills the relevant party for the full cost and therefore a relevant paper trail exists. The plebs on the ground hanging the posters would be getting paid by that company, not directly by the party. Whether they're being paid over or under the table is theoretically none of the party's business, though I would expect them to be looking for tax clearance certs from any company they do business with, lest the papers find out that they're dealing with dogy businesses.

More than likely the guys hanging the posters are contractors and obliged to register for and pay their own income tax. It's not up the party to ensure that all sub-sub-sub-sub-contractors are paying their income tax.

Corsendonk

seamus wrote: »

+1

More than likely this job is contracted out to company who bills the relevant party for the full cost and therefore a relevant paper trail exists. The plebs on the ground hanging the posters would be getting paid by that company, not directly by the party. Whether they're being paid over or under the table is theoretically none of the party's business, though I would expect them to be looking for tax clearance certs from any company they do business with, lest the papers find out that they're dealing with dogy businesses.

More than likely the guys hanging the posters are contractors and obliged to register for and pay their own income tax. It's not up the party to ensure that all sub-sub-sub-sub-contractors are paying their income tax.

Well I know the two lads as I said. The FG guy has been hanging posters for every election in the last 30 years and the other lad is a Labour actvist. And no its the country out here not the city so no contracted company. Now I don't mind them getting their milage and petrol covered but a 100 euros is a bit much a day....

johnnyskeleton

Corsendonk wrote: »

Well I know the two lads as I said. The FG guy has been hanging posters for every election in the last 30 years and the other lad is a Labour actvist. And no its the country out here not the city so no contracted company. Now I don't mind them getting their milage and petrol covered but a 100 euros is a bit much a day....

If he is a Labour "activist" why doesn't he do it for free?

gandalf

Corsendonk wrote: »

I was talking to two lads that I know that are putting up posters for candidates. One is working for FG, the other lad for Labour. Both are getting 100euros cash in hand for each days work. One of the lads is on the dole and the other lad wouldn't be the declaring kind.:D


Now it seems to me that we don't scrutinise election spending enough if candidates can pay out that much ready cash and no paper trail exists. Do parties encourage the black economy when it suits them?

I assume you have reported this guy for Social Welfare fraud?

If not I suggest you do.

Here is the relevant link

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

No point going on about parties turning a blind eye to the black economy if it appears you do so yourself?

RandolphEsq

Those posters cost €4.50 each!

gbee

seamus wrote: »

+1 More than likely this job is contracted out to company who bills the relevant party for the full cost and therefore a relevant paper trail exists. .

Yes. But that company is usually only for the primary national candidates.

At grass roots level, same as with the GAA, the van pulls up and a group of volunteers do the work locally and more importantly, maintain the posters.

As they are volunteers they don't get paid but there is still expenses that is usually paid in cash, a €100 a day would be about right but one would not get a lot of days.

gerarda

Election posters are an eye sore.

Corsendonk

gandalf wrote: »

I assume you have reported this guy for Social Welfare fraud?

If not I suggest you do.

Here is the relevant link

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

No point going on about parties turning a blind eye to the black economy if it appears you do so yourself?

Thanks I am aware of that link. Amazing how many people think they can use google better than others.

You seem to have ignored the fact that apart from benefit fraud my point was how do all parties submit correct election expenditure if they pay workers with so much petty cash and no paper trail? Is election expenditure actually more than the parties state?

I include FF in that statement for any of the foaming at the mouth FF haters on here who attack any genuine posts that may sound negative of other non FF parties. Surely you can find a nursing home or something to harangue FF voters. The old dears will be glad of the visit.

Corsendonk

gbee wrote: »

Yes. But that company is usually only for the primary national candidates.

At grass roots level, same as with the GAA, the van pulls up and a group of volunteers do the work locally and more importantly, maintain the posters.

As they are volunteers they don't get paid but there is still expenses that is usually paid in cash, a €100 a day would be about right but one would not get a lot of days.

I would say they had big smiles on their faces during the stormy weather!:D

RetroBate

Corsendonk wrote: »

I was talking to two lads that I know that are putting up posters for candidates. One is working for FG, the other lad for Labour. Both are getting 100euros cash in hand for each days work. One of the lads is on the dole and the other lad wouldn't be the declaring kind.:D

€100 per day if it's an 8 hour day works out at €12.50 per hour. Above the minimum wage but considering it's outdoor work probably in wind and rain up ladders I don't think it's overly generous.

More likely it's to erect a certain amount of posters along a certain route and if they manage to do it in under 8 hours then fair play to them.

The issue of cash in hand is irrelavent. Who hasn't paid cash to someone to fix their gutter and probably a lot more than these guys are getting.

ILA

Members of Sinn Fein put up that parties posters and are not paid for it, just before any wild claims are made.

Kasabian

RetroBate wrote: »

€100 per day if it's an 8 hour day works out at €12.50 per hour. Above the minimum wage but considering it's outdoor work probably in wind and rain up ladders I don't think it's overly generous.

More likely it's to erect a certain amount of posters along a certain route and if they manage to do it in under 8 hours then fair play to them.

The issue of cash in hand is irrelavent. Who hasn't paid cash to someone to fix their gutter and probably a lot more than these guys are getting.

Of course it is relevant if a candidate is paying someone cash in hand to get a job done. The fact that 1 is claiming social welfare means that he is unable to work. This is breaking the law. These people are running in the election to become the lawmakers of the country.

It is this kind of thinking that has us where we are. Looking after their mates.

RetroBate

Kasabian wrote: »

Of course it is relevant if a candidate is paying someone cash in hand to get a job done. The fact that 1 is claiming social welfare means that he is unable to work. This is breaking the law. These people are running in the election to become the lawmakers of the country.

It is this kind of thinking that has us where we are. Looking after their mates.

Quite the opposite if he was unable to work he'd be on disability benefit.

The OP said he was on the 'dole' which means he is unemployed but seeking work. In fact to be on the 'dole' you must, by law, be prepared to accept work. Which is what he did.

The onus is on the 'dole' recipient to declare any income received. We don't know whether he did or didn't.

gandalf

Corsendonk wrote: »

Thanks I am aware of that link. Amazing how many people think they can use google better than others.

You seem to have ignored the fact that apart from benefit fraud my point was how do all parties submit correct election expenditure if they pay workers with so much petty cash and no paper trail? Is election expenditure actually more than the parties state?

I include FF in that statement for any of the foaming at the mouth FF haters on here who attack any genuine posts that may sound negative of other non FF parties. Surely you can find a nursing home or something to harangue FF voters. The old dears will be glad of the visit.

Oh I agree with you on election expenditure and if this is undeclared which it could be then that is not on and should be dealt with.

I assume as you are aware of that link you did contact Social Welfare so they could investigate this situation?

At least that could give a good starting point for any enterprising proper investigative journalist to look at possible bad economy election spending (the only problem is we really don't have any journalists of this type any more, most regurgitate press releases!).

Kasabian

RetroBate wrote: »

Quite the opposite if he was unable to work he'd be on disability benefit.

The OP said he was on the 'dole' which means he is unemployed but seeking work. In fact to be on the 'dole' you must, by law, be prepared to accept work. Which is what he did.

The onus is on the 'dole' recipient to declare any income received. We don't know whether he did or didn't.

You are correct, but if he is claiming socail welfare he shouldn't be accepting payment for work unless he has signed off.

I doubt he has and it is the impression I got from the OP.

The main point being that there is a candidate out there potentially operating in the black market.

RetroBate

Kasabian wrote: »

The main point being that there is a candidate out there potentially operating in the black market.

I think you mean the black economy.

When you can substantiate that a candidate is knowingly operating in the black economy then you will have a case.

There is a world of difference between giving a guy €100 to put up posters and accepting party donations in return for access and influence which seemed to be the inference of your earlier post about helping 'mates' being the sort of thinking that got us into this mess.

Kasabian

RetroBate wrote: »

I think you mean the black economy.

Yes I mean't black economy.

When you can substantiate that a candidate is knowingly operating in the black economy then you will have a case.

I can't sustantiate it but by going on the OP it would appear that this may be the case. This is why I used the word potentially.

There is a world of difference between giving a guy €100 to put up posters and accepting party donations in return for access and influence which seemed to be the inference of your earlier post about helping 'mates' being the sort of thinking that got us into this mess.

I don't see a world of difference just a difference in scale. Where does it begin and end? The person looking to be elected has the potential to recoup monies in relation to his election attempt and who hands money to someone in receipt of social welfare is potentially allowing for double dipping the system.

PomBear

ILA wrote: »

Members of Sinn Fein put up that parties posters and are not paid for it, just before any wild claims are made.

Well if there were, i'd be looking for my fecking money!

Overature

where does one sign up to put up posters?

maccored

Overature wrote: »

where does one sign up to put up posters?

contact the local representative you want to put posters up for

Overature

sweet thanks

maccored wrote: »

contact the local representative you want to put posters up for

aridion

I was out three days putting them up. For free.
Just doing a school mate a turn.

scheister

i have been putting posters up for elections since the 2005 bye election. The most i have ever got is a pint after all the work is done. As said earlier on that it is grass roots people like me that do it for free. I have heard of it been done for a fee but its a company putting them up. And this happens in case of the europeans or if a poster is going up all over the place such as the ones with the leaders face going on them.

UDAWINNER

i would have thought people put them up for free, learn new things every day.

crebel81

Kasabian wrote: »

Pathetic

I second you on that

nesf

ILA wrote: »

Members of Sinn Fein put up that parties posters and are not paid for it, just before any wild claims are made.

Indeed, they do it at gunpoint....

UDAWINNER

another pathetic comment about SF

nesf

UDAWINNER wrote: »

another pathetic comment about SF

Yeah, cause I was like serious and stuff.

Nehaxak

nesf wrote: »

Indeed, they do it at gunpoint....

You're a Cat Mod covering politics and you make a flippant, childish slur like that, that has nothing to do with the topic, nor SF for that matter ?

...and Boards have the absolute gaul to ever contest when people give out about this kind of thing going on against SF and here we are, a mod doing the exact same thing, a cat mod at that, well done, good job. I guess now that all the explaining away that the mods have done here in regards this same type of thing, to defend themselves and boards itself, can be taken with a rather large pinch of salt as you've just proven that which many of us have complained about before.

nesf

Nehaxak wrote: »

You're a Cat Mod covering politics and you make a flippant, childish slur like that, that has nothing to do with the topic, nor SF for that matter ?

...and Boards have the absolute gaul to ever contest when people give out about this kind of thing going on against SF and here we are, a mod doing the exact same thing, a cat mod at that, well done, good job. I guess now that all the explaining away that the mods have done here in regards this same type of thing, to defend themselves and boards itself, can be taken with a rather large pinch of salt as you've just proven that which many of us have complained about before.

I'd agree with you if what I said was remotely believable and not so absolutely far fetched to be an obvious piss take.

Unless you're saying we cannot make light out of SF's past the same way we make light about Labour's, FG's or FF's?

Agent Smith

i've put up posters for fg candidates before. most i've got was a couple of pints and some chipper food.

i'd be really surprised if any fg candidates are paying for people to put up posters

Nehaxak

nesf wrote: »

I'd agree with you if what I said was remotely believable and not so absolutely far fetched to be an obvious piss take.

Unless you're saying we cannot make light out of SF's past the same way we make light about Labour's, FG's or FF's?

Yeah I'm sorry, I forgot this was After Hours and not the Politics forum...

nesf

Nehaxak wrote: »

Yeah I'm sorry, I forgot this was After Hours and not the Politics forum...

Political jokes are allowed on here and always have been. I appreciate it's annoying when someone is pulling the piss out of your party but on a political forum that's going to happen quite a bit. There's been no shortage of SF supporters taking the piss out of right wing party/party members I'll remind you.

Ghost Estate

so..

anyone want to give me 100 euros for a day?

In return i will give you as many election posters as i can fit in my car.

AdMMM

As far as I know, the posters from head office (i.e. the ones of the leaders faces) that are put up around the country are put up by the same people and those putting them up are paid.

Posters for individual candidates would be done for free by grassroots members who have a head for heights.

Steo46

Where do I apply for this job?

Nehaxak

nesf wrote: »

...your party...

They are not my party, I merely will be voting for them.

PaulKK

Surely 100 quid isn't outrageous if you have to drive around in your own car for a day in a country area putting up posters when fuel costs etc are factored in.