I'm +1: Anyone enter National Battle of the Bands

niall1976

There are too many people out there ripping off bands on the promise of something amazing.

I would like to use this thread as an example to those people who think they can set up a website and randomly seek money from all of us, who work bloody hard and spend a lot of money getting our music together.

We may not be U2, but we are just as passionate about our sounds

If anyone out there has entered the National Battle of the Bands which was linked to Musicnews.ie and paid the fiver (€5) please reply to this thread with a simple +1

Lets face it the fiver isn't going to kills us, but 10 fivers or a hundred fivers start to make a difference.

Lets start making a stand aginst these cowboys.

Rant Over

I'm +1

the_barfly1

+1. Heard that it was supposed to be postponed until sometime around now?

auti

+1 I used to be very trusting and now I suspect everyone. NBOTB ruined my life

Spang_Joe

+ 1 Emailed them over 2 months ago, got nothing back

raindog.promo

Wasn't there another thread about NBOTB which contained a lot of details and iirc, someone who posted here that knew the promoters?

niall1976

See the sticky, independent band opportunities

Malice

For the benefit of those of us (mainly me) who have no idea what this thread is about could someone provide more information? Are you annoyed because the National Battle of the Bands competition has been postponed or something?

niall1976

Hi Malice,

It hasn't been postponed, its dissapeared. The website went down just after Christmas.

This was after the competition was postponed last year and entrants were reassured that it would take place in Jan 2011.

The original post on boards was by one of the mods in this forum, Miju, who was helping with the competition.

A lot of bands entered this competition at €5 euro a go. Nice money if you can get it from a few hundred bands.

The purpose of this thread is to highlight the amount of scams out there for bands which are trying to scrape through as it is.

Hope this clears things up

miju

Know just a bit more than most of you lads but unfortunately cannot post at this moment in time in relation to whats going on with the organisers.

Can state one or two things though from my understanding it is still going ahead but as to when I've not heard.

Not as many entered as you would think Niall last time I got a report of the numbers from organisers it was around the 30 mark not the couple of hunder as you would have probably expected. Not that this is / was an issue with the competition going ahead as sponsorship, venues, prizes is / was in place from what I know. But as an aside I think the number that entered does go a long way in showing general bands laziness and general apathy when an opportunity like this is made available to them.

Scam this is /was not, if you think of the complexities involved in setting up a competition of this size , logistical and financially wise and the many things that can trip it up.

As I'm sure you can all appreciate at this point in time theres not alot I can go into here for various reasons with the main one being I'm not the chief organiser of this competition so am privvy to very little.

Waking-Dreams

Indeed, it is easy to jump to conclusions based on a limited set of observations.

A website going down could mean a few things such as its monthly bandwidth limits being exceeded or the owners just not being able to pay the bill.

30 x €5 isn’t a whole pile of capital to get something such as this off the ground and if some sponsors have fallen through, that could set such an event like this back and explain such a delay.

As always, it’s best to wait until you have more information.

THeSeahooks

Miju - thats a pretty poor post on your behalf I have to say..especially being a mod on this site

It misses the point and only serves to back the original reason for the thread

If the competition has ran into difficulties for whatever reason then the organiser should issue a statement saying that the competition will happen at a certain date in the future or it will now not happen and refund the 30 bands entry money.???

The organiser should show a little more respect to the bands that have entered - as should you

niall1976

Thanks Miju, it's good to get some info as the organisers are not replying to enquiries.

I'm struggling to see how it will proceed though if they have only 30 entries and the website is gone, but let's see what happens

raindog.promo

THeSeahooks wrote: »

If the competition has ran into difficulties for whatever reason then the organiser should issue a statement saying that the competition will happen at a certain date in the future or it will now not happen and refund the 30 bands entry money.

The organiser should show a little more respect to the bands that have entered

+1

niall1976

Hi Miju,

I missed some of your post last time so just want add to my previous post.

I think it's unrealistic and a bit naive to blame bands apathy or laziness on the numbers entering. Hard Rock BOTB Dublin and Shercock, Cavan, BOTB each received far more entries than that. So you need to ask yourself, what are the organisers doing wrong if they can't get entries. I'd suggest this equally comes down to effort spent recruiting bands.

I fully understand the logistics etc required to pull off sOmerhing like this. I am involved in non music events which see thousands of people attending. However , that dies not excuse a lack of communication to the people who entered this competition.

I have never received a reply from an email to NBOTB or a return phonecall from Music News when I called. I did both numerous times.

I would like to ask just one question. What is the relationship between music news and NBOTB and are music news still trading.

artvandulet

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

A website going down could mean a few things such as its monthly bandwidth limits being exceeded or the owners just not being able to pay the bill.

Their website isnt just down. The domain name has expired and is back for sale.

THeSeahooks

Any comment Miju?

If you were so willing to put your name to promoting this competition initially surely you now have a responsibility to get an official statement from the organizer to maybe help ease the concerns of your boards members??

Waking-Dreams

artvandulet wrote: »

Their website isnt just down. The domain name has expired and is back for sale.

I’m just pointing out that it’s vital to take everything into consideration. Jumping to conclusions based on incomplete evidence can lead to stress and bother. And right now, all people have to go on is incomplete information.

I’m reserving judgment myself on this until more info is made available. And, I'm all in favour of calling out bogus cowboys, and have done here in the past but I don't feel there's enough info to make a solid conclusion.

Obviously, bands who went in for this are going to feel somewhat let down but let’s wait to hear the whole story, eh?

raindog.promo

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Obviously, bands who went in for this are going to feel somewhat let down but let’s wait to hear the whole story, eh?

It appears that the organisers are unwilling to engage in communication or respond to queries.

Having took money from people, no matter how much or how little, then they have entered into a contract and are not holding up their end of it. They seem to be acting in a very unprofessional manner considering money is involved.

I have never received a reply from an email to NBOTB or a return phonecall from Music News when I called. I did both numerous times.

Not excusing that, or pointing a finger at the bands that paid for this, if it doesn't work out, you should learn the lesson of getting things in writing if you're paying for anything and that's not a bad lesson to learn for a €5.

In no way am I excusing these other people taking your money and not delivering on their word. Whether they do or not remains to be seen.

rcaz

miju wrote: »

But as an aside I think the number that entered does go a long way in showing general bands laziness and general apathy when an opportunity like this is made available to them.

Er, what? I don't think you have any authority to comment on how seriously musicians take their work. I saw this, and I didn't enter my band because BOTBs have nothing to do with music, they're popularity contests, and then you're expecting bands to pay to enter? I can't remember the details, but presumably anyone that would have gone to see the shows would have to pay in. Then once they pay into the venues they'll buy drinks. You'll get sponsors who'll pay you. The bands performing are going to work their asses off, and if they really want it, they're going to put absolutely everything they have to offer into their art and bear it all on stage for your competition. They're doing the most difficult work here.

You said something in a thread about a fiver not being that much considering how good the prize is. Last I checked, you win prizes, you don't buy them.

thefarm

This seems suspect. I could never find anything about musicnews or the national battle of the bands anywhere except their own sites and on boards at the time this competition was being advertised in the sticky thread.

maybe the lack of interest was down to the lack of weight behind an unknown website run by people with no obvious background in music promotion....as opposed to bands being too lazy (!!) to jump at this fantastic opportunity.

how long has it been now since people paid their money? and in that time both websites have disappeared, emails & phonecalls have been ignored and no information has been forthcoming about whether the competion was going ahead. how long does it take before a delay in organisation becomes straight up theft?

if niall1976 hadnt started this thread there would still be no dialogue about the whole thing.

Miju says he's not the chief organiser for this competition, but he does seem to have a say in musicnews, and as they seem to be the only name affiliated with the national battle of the bands perhaps he can get the organisers (whoever they are) to get in contact with the bands who signed up about getting them their money back if they want refunds, as this delay and lack of communication would certainly put me off patricipating even if the comp goes head...maybe next year.

MilanPan!c

We didn't enter, because I don't pay to be in contests. I've played in plenty and never been asked to pay before, or since. All other contests find a way to make it work without a fee, and without the fee no one would be complaining (IMO).

I stated, at the time, that a fee is a weird and unnecessary idea.

I'm glad I didn't enter, and if you ask around you'll find I'm the complete opposite of lazy.

So, at least some of us saw this a non-starter, and it had nothing to do with being lazy... and honestly miju, you should know better than call people names... for real.

THeSeahooks

Any comments Miju?

You seem to have been online to post in reponse to T-Shirt Query after 4 today?

As a Mod for this site, as well as aledgedly having been involved in the promoting of this competition you seem to have a dual responsibility here

As a mod of this forum, I will not put up with haranguing members on this board. Miju, I'm sure will post a response in good time.

Your friendly mod,

Papa

Cubenio

With all due respect Papa as the mod of this forum surely your time would be better spent in ensuring that miju did post a reply on this potentially very serious issue?

The fact that he can respond to a post with regard to Tshirt printing at 4pm but choose to ignore this thread is either very naive or very arrogant

Waking-Dreams

In fairness, an initial reply was made within 24 hours of the OP and people now want ‘instant’ replies after the following was posted:

miju wrote: »

Know just a bit more than most of you lads but unfortunately cannot post at this moment in time in relation to what’s going on with the organisers.

miju wrote: »

As I'm sure you can all appreciate at this point in time there’s not a lot I can go into here for various reasons with the main one being I'm not the chief organiser of this competition so am privy to very little.

Next you’ll be looking for the chap’s home address so you can heckle him on his way to work. :rolleyes:

Lads, calm down. You’re being unrealistic expecting another reply so soon. I’m thinking it’s going to have to come from the chief organiser. Give it a day or so.

THeSeahooks

......Then he should say that he's looking into getting an update as quickly as possible and will post as soon as he has further information - this is simple enough stuff really

MilanPan!c

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

In fairness, an initial reply was made within 24 hours of the OP and people now want ‘instant’ replies after the following was posted:





Next you’ll be looking for the chap’s home address so you can heckle him on his way to work. :rolleyes:

Lads, calm down. You’re being unrealistic expecting another reply so soon. I’m thinking it’s going to have to come from the chief organiser. Give it a day or so.

Honestly, and I like miju, but honestly, I think that this has just been handled badly and that's the source of the frustration here. Miju, who was probably back-footed a bit by this, and who in fairness, is probably just mates with someone involved, responded in probably the worst way, again, probably without thinking it through, and that only stoked the fire.

I think at this point, the feeling is simply that the folks involved have had more than enough time to proactively deal with the people involved and it's only through badgering that results will appear.

I also think, based on what we've seen, and unfortunately for poor miju, that's probably a fair assessment.

Denalihighway

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Honestly, and I like miju, but honestly, I think that this has just been handled badly and that's the source of the frustration here. Miju, who was probably back-footed a bit by this, and who in fairness, is probably just mates with someone involved, responded in probably the worst way, again, probably without thinking it through, and that only stoked the fire.

I think at this point, the feeling is simply that the folks involved have had more than enough time to proactively deal with the people involved and it's only through badgering that results will appear.

I also think, based on what we've seen, and unfortunately for poor miju, that's probably a fair assessment.

+1

Miju has said about 30 people applied. That's about €150 give or take a few either side.

It's very simple.

Organisers, either get your sh*t together (IE give some indication/communication that clearly indicates this thing is a runner) or else refund these people immediately and keep what's left of your reputation.

It seems like this thing isn't going ahead so man up, take the hit and do the right thing.

I accept I assuming some stuff there but to be honest if most of what is in the thread is true, its seems fairly safe to assume. There is nothing worse than seeing people who aren't flush with cash getting ripped off.

KPNUTSY

Having read the thread so far, the tone of it seems to be deeply cynical. Maybe this is justly so, maybe it is unjust. I would agree with the posters above that have argued that a person should be given time to explain themselves before they are convicted in the court of public opinion.

From what I can see; there have been previous threads and promises about "battle of the bands" competitions that have come to nought so maybe "once bitten, twice shy" and all that.

Having said that, it would seem that there are a few questions that could/should be answered in the case of this NBOTB competition.
From what I can tell, and I can be freely corrected on any point, this competition was first mentioned/advertised by a mod (Miju)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055844512

Not knowing anything about Miju's bona fides, a quick scour on Boards.ie and elsewhere at least show's that Miju has a previous interest in music and events
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=770864

A good start at least..At the time people questioned the entry fee, but the prizes on offer sounded like they were worth it and more

Things seemed to start going downhill around September. Some posters started to query the delay in information forthcoming about the competition but a message posted on the NBOTB site alluded to delays and promised more info in January
Then.....nothing
The 2 sites, musicnews.ie and NBOTB have gone, as mentioned above.The domain for Musicnews.ie has lapsed and is now available
http://dropped.ie/m/8
From what I can tell, Miju is the person behind Musicnews.ie, if not then at least it's most prominent member on Boards.ie
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055875822
And Musicnews.ie are/were the "online partners" of NBOTB
The original blurb for NBOTB (see below) lists the panel of judges for the competition, mainly staffers from Musicnews.ie

I dont think it would be too unreasonable to ask if Musicnews.ie and NBOTB had closer links than first thought.
So..finally
Could someone from Musicnews.ie/NBOTB provide info on whether the competition is cancelled or not?
Are there refunds?

That an ambitious sounding project didnt get off the ground is a shame
That those who entered were not contacted is unprofessional
That money was taken in (no matter how many fivers) and not returned with apologies stinks..and makes future competitions more difficult to organise
Anyway, I hope the competition does actually go ahead.It sounds interesting.


About The National Battle Of The Bands
Written by Battle Of The Bands Ireland Team
OVER €25,000 IN PRIZES TO BE WON, OPEN TO ALL BANDS NATIONWIDE

COMMENCING SEPTEMBER 2010 AND ENDING IN ONE MASSIVE PARTY WITH OUR NATIONAL FINAL FEATURING VERY, VERY SPECIAL GUEST BANDS

TO ENTER NOW GO TO http://nationalbotb.ie/index.php/register

The 2010 National Battle Of The Bands offers a unique opportunity for budding bands with total packages worth €25,000 for the winning bands, including music festival slots, PR, A+R, websites design, cash and CD pressings and A LOT more. With all that to be gained, the National Battle Of The Bands is an amazing chance for a career boost for any band, whether experienced or just starting out.

The competition will take place in 30 counties around the country and will eventually lead to our National Finals where a winner will be crowned, taking away over €10,000 cash, a late night music festival slot, recording studio time, mastering studio time, 1000 singles pressed complete with artwork, professional website design & marketing, PR representation, A+R representation & a worldwide digital distribution deal and that's just for starters. Second, Third and Fourth places will also walk away with prizes including mid afternoon & early festival slots, recording time, professional website design, national digital distribution deals and professional PR / A+R assistance.

Of course that doesn't include the fact that EVERY entrant will be professionaly photographed / videoed during their performances that they can use for their own PR purposes OR the fact that all entrants will be able to avail of valuable gifting & discount opportunities from our sponsors. YES, THIS IS A TRULY DIFFERENT BATTLE OF THE BANDS.

NBOB - WHO's WHO
Online Partners - www.musicnews.ie
www.musicnews.ie is one of the country's fastest growing and most comprehensive music websites, offering services that strike that rare balance by appealing to indie / mainstream music fans as well as to the bands and music industry.

THE JUDGES
Throughout each quarter final & up we will have a panel of judges who will be judging all the acts. Out of the list below we guarantee at least 3 of the people below will be on your panel of judges which is comprised of various people from radio, record labels & all other areas of the music industry. This list will be updated regularly.

Damien Gill - Music News.ie - A+R Co-Ordinator
Gheorghe Rusu - Music News.ie - Editor
Marian Blanc - Music News.ie - PR Co-Ordinator
Denis Plesca - Merchandising Co-Ordinator

NBOB's genuine ethos is to offer the finalists more - to offer them an opporunity that will give the competition's winners' career a large boost and open up many a door not usually open to Irish independent bands. This full package is a massive incentive to bands for them to do well, as well as providing them with a solid foundation for the future.

The competition also strongly maintains an unbiased judging attitude - those involved in the project know how hard it is to enter a competition like this and face being "scored" on their performance. Despite the neccessity to score and vote there lies a strong emphasis on the positive. Every artist is at a different stage in terms of the development of their careers with different levels of experience. NBOB recognises this and feels its important to focus on the positive that will ENCOURAGE not dismay. The NBOB team have a deep passion to develop new music talent in Ireland.

HOW IT WORKS
In the county heats bands recieve votes from the crowd / fans on the night (note the obvious benefit of bringing as many people with you as possible). The fan / audience vote is worth 70% of the total vote on the night. The percentage of the audience vote a band receives is added to the percentage they recieve from the judges. The band with the highest percentage total wins the heat and progresses to the next round.

raindog.promo

Maybe music news.ie are just annoyed that no one liked their app on facebook?

http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=500711685203

galwaybabe

+1
A simple response from the organisers would be much appreciated.

Drummersession

miju wrote: »

But as an aside I think the number that entered does go a long way in showing general bands laziness and general apathy when an opportunity like this is made available to them.

So it's fair enough to punish the 15 or so bands who have paid because someone's nice little earner didn't take off? Spare me. I didn't even hear about it. Is it any wonder my band was apathetic about it???

miju wrote: »

Scam this is /was not, if you think of the complexities involved in setting up a competition of this size , logistical and financially wise and the many things that can trip it up.

It's not up to the participants to 'think of the complexities involved'. It's up to the organisers. If they did then perhaps this BOTB would have gone ahead as scheduled.

THeSeahooks

Miju Miju - come out come out wherever you are!!!

thefarm

raindog.promo wrote: »

Maybe music news.ie are just annoyed that no one liked their app on facebook?

http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=500711685203

hang on, last night this linked to a NBOTB facebook app with links to 3 of the musicnews judges facebook pages, tonight...nothing. this feels like someone is trying to cover up their tracks.

can the other mods please verify with Miju what connection he has with this whole thing.

Zaph

THeSeahooks wrote: »

As a Mod for this site, as well as aledgedly having been involved in the promoting of this competition you seem to have a dual responsibility here

I'd like to make it very clear that miju's status as a mod on this forum has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his involvement with this event. For the benefit of anyone failed to read his his post when this was announced:

miju wrote:

disclaimer: i'm very good friends with the organisers and am helping them out with this.

His involvement here was in a personal capacity, and as such referring to the fact that he's a mod on boards is completely missing the point.

Cubenio wrote: »

With all due respect Papa as the mod of this forum surely your time would be better spent in ensuring that miju did post a reply on this potentially very serious issue?

thefarm wrote: »

can the other mods please verify with Miju what connection he has with this whole thing.

How exactly do you propose that Papa Smut or the other mods go about ensuring that miju replies to the posts here or verifying his connection with the event? I've posted miju's initial statement above, so that should answer the second question at least. Nobody is compelled to post on Boards, although I do think that it would be in his own best interests to get some more information from his friends to pass on here. At the very least it might stop the witch-hunt that seems to be gathering pace. He stated that he's very good friends with the organisers, so it shouldn't be that difficult to get some information. I understand people's concerns, but honestly, would you want to post here when people are directing their anger at you over something that's out of your hands? I'm sure miju will post here when he has more information, so in the meantime maybe you can ease off with the badgering a bit?

MGilly84

Not an entrant to this competition, Im merely seriously annoyed with f**king gangster promoters ripping off unsigned bands in this country. Its ruining our live scenes and benifiting nobody but the promoter.

Everybody seemed to cave into Miju's statement that there was only 30 entries. F**k that. I challenge that statement. Who is he to say there was only 30 entries. He's friends with the organisers as he mentioned at the start. So as Phil Lynott would say "Dont believe a word". Theres no proof out there that there wasnt 10000 entries and until there is, dont speculate.

If you purchased clothing off a website 6 months ago and still hadnt recieved your product or a refund would you tolerate it?? NO!! Its Internet Fraud.

Im sick s**t of gangsters explioting Irish bands. I beg you all to avoid these competitions in the future. Lets all bycott them, then they dont take place. Theres other ways of securing PR, Festival slots and everything else on offer.

As for the knobs at NBOTB. Ill be emailing info to the National Internet Fraud Bureau and would advise you all to do the same. Especially those who have paid a fiver.

I would also suggest that it be put in all Moderators job description that promotion of events, regardless of involvement, be prohibited in the future.

Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation

Address:Harcourt Square, Dublin 2
Telephone:+353 1 666 3776

Drummersession

Zaph wrote: »

How exactly do you propose that Papa Smut or the other mods go about ensuring that miju replies to the posts here or verifying his connection with the event? I've posted miju's initial statement above, so that should answer the second question at least. Nobody is compelled to post on Boards, although I do think that it would be in his own best interests to get some more information from his friends to pass on here. At the very least it might stop the witch-hunt that seems to be gathering pace. He stated that he's very good friends with the organisers, so it shouldn't be that difficult to get some information. I understand people's concerns, but honestly, would you want to post here when people are directing their anger at you over something that's out of your hands? I'm sure miju will post here when he has more information, so in the meantime maybe you can ease off with the badgering a bit?

What you and Miju have said to people is don't bother enquiring when you don't receive a response over something you're entitled to. That, in my eyes is bad advice and, more importantly, is unfair. I agree that badgering should be kept at a minimum but to suggest that it is a reason for Miju's absence is just speculation - much in the way Miju speculated justifications for the event being abandoned. Pointless.

Miju has had plenty of time to clear this up and he/she has chosen not to.

MGilly84

MGilly84 wrote: »

I would also suggest that it be put in all Moderators job description that promotion of events, regardless of involvement, be prohibited in the future.

Can I just remind EVERYBODY...


... We do not get paid to moderate


...It is not a job


...It is a service that we do because we the community


... That we are (in my case) ex promoters should be of benefit to you We know the score and hate seeing people getting ripped off!

Have a look here, here, here and here for examples of we try to help people. Voluntarily, unpaid, all out of the goodness of our own hearts*


If anyone wants to start a feedback thread feel free to do so. In the Feedback forum



*bless :pac: