Do the people who post in Politics..

chucken1

..Realise they sound like politicians.

I've tried to follow whats going on..but 2 posts in,its all waffle!

Do boards politics posters not want us mere mortals to know whats going on?

Generally..normal folk dont know who got what in 1997 or 2007..

This election is fairly important yes?

So maybe..simplify things for non regular posters..They know we are here in AH discussing the same stuff but get uppity if we wander in to Politics.

Jesus Wept

That would be an ecumenical matter.

mikom

chucken1 wrote: »

Generally..normal folk dont know who got what in 1997 or 2007..

They do if it's the X factor.....

The Hill Billy

If it is all waffle, as you put it, maybe you just don't understand it. No wonder that they may get a bit 'uppity'.

Imagine heading into the Plumbing & Heating forum & start posting about 'plugging the hosey thing into the hot yoke but it still makes funny noises'. That wouldn't go down too well either.

If you are content with the level of discussion here - stay here. If you want serious political discussion - start reading up on it & then head back to Politics.

chucken1

Hill Billy wrote: »

If it is all waffle, as you put it, maybe you just don't understand it. No wonder that they may get a bit 'uppity'.

Imagine heading into the Plumbing & Heating forum & start posting about 'plugging the hosey thing into the hot yoke but it still makes funny noises'. That wouldn't go down too well either.

If you are content with the level of discussion here - stay here. If you want serious political discussion - start reading up on it & then head back to Politics.

Hang on now..thats a bit mean! Im not an 18 year old on the beer.
My point is that questions are asked and it get into a debate between the "regulars"

orestes

chucken1 wrote: »

..Realise they sound like politicians

They are discussing politics, what do you expect them to sound like? People discussing juggling tend to sound like jugglers, that's kinda how informed discussion works

chucken1 wrote: »

I've tried to follow whats going on..but 2 posts in,its all waffle!

You don't understand what they're talking about and that's their fault how?

chucken1 wrote: »

Do boards politics posters not want us mere mortals to know whats going on?

No, they don't, it's all an elaborate conspiracy for boards to take over the country using the politics posters as trojan-horses, install DeV as taoiseach, daft have been planning this from the beginning and created the recession in order to lower property prices so they could rent out property for a fraction of what it cost the developers to build them

chucken1 wrote: »

Generally..normal folk dont know who got what in 1997 or 2007..

I got the strep-throat in 2007, not too sure about 1997 though

chucken1 wrote: »

This election is fairly important yes?

Yes, hence discussion of it being kinda technical

chucken1 wrote: »

So maybe..simplify things for non regular posters..They know we are here in AH discussing the same stuff but get uppity if we wander in to Politics.

Or the general populace could educate themselves on the matters involved so that they know what they are voting on rather than expecting to be spoon-fed every single tid-bit of information and then giving out that the political system gets nothing done because it has spent half of its time pandering to the whims and whingings of ignorance and laziness

Potential-Monke

I've gone into the Plumbing forum and posted some such stuff, and i got nothing but extremely good help!

But i'm sure those into politics would discuss matters like politicians. It's natural that the thing you follow can rub off on you. Thats why i, as a gamer, can imagine complete and total war breaking out at any stage, and imagine the best sniping spots.

Back on topic, it would be nice to understand whats going on, cuz even when they answer the simplist of things i have no idea what they just said. It's deliberate confusion.

@orestes: I can appreciate your last paragraph, but i simply don't have the time to upskill and re-educate myself to understand alot of whats been said, which may be easy to do for alot of people, but there are still some who just can't grasp politics, much like those who can't grasp maths/irish/physics/anything.

chucken1

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I've gone into the Plumbing forum and posted some such stuff, and i got nothing but extremely good help!

But i'm sure those into politics would discuss matters like politicians. It's natural that the thing you follow can rub off on you. Thats why i, as a gamer, can imagine complete and total war breaking out at any stage, and imagine the best sniping spots.

Back on topic, it would be nice to understand whats going on, cuz even when they answer the simplist of things i have no idea what they just said. It's deliberate confusion.

Thank you.

orestes

Potential-Monke wrote: »

@orestes: I can appreciate your last paragraph, but i simply don't have the time to upskill and re-educate myself to understand alot of whats been said, which may be easy to do for alot of people, but there are still some who just can't grasp politics, much like those who can't grasp maths/irish/physics/anything.

I can't grasp anything with numbers beyond basic mathematics or anything related to physics (to use your own examples) my mind simply does not work in that way and I accept that, but how is that the fault of mathematicians and physicists? Should they dumb down their informed discussion to pander to me in a forum dedicated to the discussion of their subjects? I wouldn't expect them to and I wouldn't want them to

The Hill Billy

Actually you are right. They make up terminology so the can hide the meaning of their real discussions. Not only that, they make up obscure thread topics to throw you off the scent of the real issues too.

There is no confusion conspiracy.

* changes back into lizard man & heads off to stalk Joe Corr *

Einhard

Potential-Monke wrote: »

@orestes: I can appreciate your last paragraph, but i simply don't have the time to upskill and re-educate myself to understand alot of whats been said, which may be easy to do for alot of people, but there are still some who just can't grasp politics, much like those who can't grasp maths/irish/physics/anything.

Umm, I spend a fair bit of time in the politics forum, and never found it to be too intellectually demanding. Politics is an important topic, and the discussion shouldn't be dumbed down because some people don't understand what's being discussed, or more likely, couldn't be arsed expending the modicum of intellectual rigour to understand. Would you go into the a medical forum and decry the fact that they were discussing medical matters in a coherent and cogent manner?

Perhaps you could provide us with some examples of posts you find too demanding?

LighterGuy

Sounds like you are referring to peoples attitudes op.

I know what you mean. Its like if I asked a question in a forum and am met with a "noob" comment :rolleyes: Clearly these people were born with the knowledge while I wasnt... not like they didnt know the full score too at one point :rolleyes:


hell with them.
Just another form of "a*sholeism" (as I call it )

chucken1

Einhard wrote: »

Umm, I spend a fair bit of time in the politics forum, and never found it to be too intellectually demanding. Politics is an important topic, and the discussion shouldn't be dumbed down because some people don't understand what's being discussed, or more likely, couldn't be arsed expending the modicum of intellectual rigour to understand. Would you go into the a medical forum and decry the fact that they were discussing medical matters in a coherent and cpgent manner?

Perhaps you could provide us with some examples of posts you find too demanding?

Well I dont understand CPGENT.. and I hope you're all happy now!

Einhard

chucken1 wrote: »

..Realise they sound like politicians.

I've tried to follow whats going on..but 2 posts in,its all waffle!

Well you're not trying hard enough then.

Do boards politics posters not want us mere mortals to know whats going on?

Perhaps they expect that a tiny little bit of mental graft be applied when discussing important issues.

Generally..normal folk dont know who got what in 1997 or 2007..

No, only very ignorant folk don't know that. Abject ignorance is really nothing to be proud about.

This election is fairly important yes?

Wow. With such forensic political insight, I'm surprised you weren't welcomed with open arms by politics regulars.

So maybe..simplify things for non regular posters..They know we are here in AH discussing the same stuff but get uppity if we wander in to Politics.

Eh, it's not an apartheid system....there's no "us" and "them". I post in AH, in politics, in all manner of threads. As do most boards users. As for simplifying things, why should they dumb down for people who clearly aren't really interested in what's being discussed? And where does one stop with the simplification? Do we have to dumb things down so that even the most dull-witted, slack-jawed village idiot can grasp what's going on? That's not a dig at you BTW, but if things were simplified to accomodate you, what's to stop someone else demanding it be simplified further to accomodate them?

I'd also point out that, generally, important topics demand a more nuanced, and even complicated approach than others. It's not deliberate- it's necessary if there's to be a clear headed debate.

Einhard

chucken1 wrote: »

Well I dont understand CPGENT.. and I hope you're all happy now!

See, I even make up my own words to complicate maters even further!!:D

orestes

chucken1 wrote: »

Well I dont understand CPGENT.. and I hope you're all happy now!

Ignoring people putting forward a position that opposes yours, appealing to the frustration of others in a time of economic turmoil, and calling someone out for a slur-campaign in what likes like an after thought after raising a very broad concern?

And you're saying the politics posters sound like politicians?

chucken1

Einhard wrote: »

Well you're not trying hard enough then.



Perhaps they expect that a tiny little bit of mental graft be applied when discussing important issues.



No, only very ignorant folk don't know that. Abject ignorance is really nothing to be proud about.



Wow. With such forensic political insight, I'm surprised you weren't welcomed with open arms by politics regulars.



Eh, it's not an apartheid system....there's no "us" and "them". I post in AH, in politics, in all manner of threads. As do most boards users. As for simplifying things, why should they dumb down for people who clearly aren't really interested in what's being discussed? And where does one stop with the simplification? Do we have to dumb things down so that even the most dull-witted, slack-jawed village idiot can grasp what's going on? That's not a dig at you BTW, but if things were simplified to accomodate you, what's to stop someone else demanding it be simplified further to accomodate them?

I'd also point out that, generally, important topics demand a more nuanced, and even complicated approach than others. It's not deliberate- it's necessary if there's to be a clear headed debate.

Do you know what kid..ya you are of course right.

LighterGuy

Einhard wrote: »

As for simplifying things, why should they dumb down for people who clearly aren't really interested in what's being discussed? And where does one stop with the simplification? Do we have to dumb things down so that even the most dull-witted, slack-jawed village idiot can grasp what's going on? That's not a dig at you BTW, but if things were simplified to accomodate you, what's to stop someone else demanding it be simplified further to accomodate them?

LighterGuy's "How to bury or insult someone, while seemingly not doing so class 101"

First lesson:
The trick is to say something in one sentence (implying or talking about their opinion but in a "general" way) then in the following sentence to seemingly retract by saying "and I do not mean you for the record"

Advanced tip:
its always better to compliment then bury/insult. ... "Lighterguy, you're a sound guy BUT! ..." then proceed to insult.

Einhard

LighterGuy wrote: »

LighterGuy's "How to bury or insult someone, while seemingly not doing so class 101"

First lesson:
The trick is to say something in one sentence (implying or talking about their opinion but in a "general" way) then in the following statement to seemingly retract by saying "and I do not mean you for the record"

Advanced tip:
its always better to compliment then bury/insult. ... "Lighterguy, you're a sound guy BUT! ..." then proceed to insult.

Umm no, there was no insult intended, and I'm not sure how you could construe that from what I said. If we dumb things down (simplify) in politics as the OP asked, what's to stop someone else (ie the dull-wiited, slack-jawed village idiot) coming along in a few months, saying that things are still too complicated, and requesting that they be dumbed down even further?

Maybe you or chucken could link to threads or posts that are too complicated, to give us a better understanding of your viewpoint?

TheGodBen

Potential-Monke wrote: »

@orestes: I can appreciate your last paragraph, but i simply don't have the time to upskill and re-educate myself to understand alot of whats been said, which may be easy to do for alot of people, but there are still some who just can't grasp politics, much like those who can't grasp maths/irish/physics/anything.

What's complicated about it? The parties will launch their manifestos this week so read them, find the one that you agree with most and, so long as its not Fianna Fáil, vote for that candidate.

As for going into the politics forum to learn about a subject, that's probably not a good idea. Politics isn't like plumbing where there's generally one solution to a problem that most professionals will agree on. In politics there's a dozen different angles from which every issue can be approached and nobody truly knows which angle is best for each problem, but they'll passionately argue for days on end regardless. I mean, if you went to the politics forum to ask which is better, flat or progressive taxation, you'll find people that will argue both sides, and eventually some nutter will show up and advocate regressive taxation or no taxation at all. How is a political novice supposed to know which point of view is right, or even if there is a right point of view at all?

Einhard

TheGodBen wrote: »

What's complicated about it? The parties will launch their manifestos this week so read them, find the one that you agree with most and, so long as its not Fianna Fáil, vote for that candidate.

LOL I had to laugh at that. Good advice!:D

LighterGuy

TheGodBen wrote: »

...... In politics there's a dozen different angles from which every issue can be approached and nobody truly knows which angle is best for each problem, but they'll passionately argue for days on end regardless. I mean, if you went to the politics forum to ask which is better, flat or progressive taxation, you'll find people that will argue both sides, and eventually some nutter will show up and advocate regressive taxation or no taxation at all. How is a political novice supposed to know which point of view is right, or even if there is a right point of view at all?....

To be honest I think you just summed up most of the threads on boards.ie
People just passionately trying to convay how right their opinion is.

Politics forum? majority of boards? ... just people? .. or just the net?

orestes

LighterGuy wrote: »

To be honest I think you just summed up most of the threads on boards.ie
People just passionately trying to convay how right their opinion is.

Politics forum? majority of boards? ... just people? .. or just the net?

Erm, you do realise this is a discussion site, right?

LighterGuy

orestes wrote: »

Erm, you do realise this is a discussion site, right?

There is a difference is discussing opinions and forcing onto others.

Its like me and you orestes, we discuss something. we're both on the opposite side of the fence. We discuss. Pointing out our views. Thats a discussion

However what is not a discussion is someone either A, ramming their opinion down your throat rather than accepting and being respectful that they have different views or B, a person insulting or condescending because they dont agree with your opinion.

Einhard

LighterGuy wrote: »

However what is not a discussion is someone either A, ramming their opinion down your throat rather than accepting and being respectful that they have different views or B, a person insulting or condescending because they dont agree with your opinion.

That's a fair enough point, but it's nothing really to do with the politics posters being needlessly complicated.

LighterGuy

Einhard wrote: »

That's a fair enough point, but it's nothing really to do with the politics posters being needlessly complicated.

Einhard,
just to bring it to your attention I was responding to orestes after he said didnt I realise it was a discussion site.

The post is above mate.

orestes

LighterGuy wrote: »

There is a difference is discussing opinions and forcing onto others.

Its like me and you orestes, we discuss something. we're both on the opposite side of the fence. We discuss. Pointing out our views. Thats a discussion

However what is not a discussion is someone either A, ramming their opinion down your throat rather than accepting and being respectful that they have different views or B, a person insulting or condescending because they dont agree with your opinion.

Complaining about how people express their opinions is different to complaining about the nature of serious discussion of a serious subject though. I'm not arguing about how the politics forum users express their opinions, because to be honest I very rarely venture into that forum, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect people in a forum dedicated to a subject to be derided for having their discussions on their own level and in their own terminology. I don't just mean this in terms of the politics forum, I mean it in terms of general discussion, like I said about jugglers and someone else on this thread said about plumbers.

Unfortunately in this instance the subject matter is something that has become quickly important for a lot of people who previously had no interest in it and aren't familiar with the terminology and process of political discussion, which I reckon has just added to the feelings of frustration that caused them to take up an interest in politics in the first place. Double rejection + perceived elitism + circumstances = anger.

I just don't agree with expecting people in the know to pander to those who aren't willing to make the effort to understand the subject matter in question and will spend their time whining instead, roads go both ways

orestes

LighterGuy wrote: »

There is a difference is discussing opinions and forcing onto others.

Its like me and you orestes, we discuss something. we're both on the opposite side of the fence. We discuss. Pointing out our views. Thats a discussion

However what is not a discussion is someone either A, ramming their opinion down your throat rather than accepting and being respectful that they have different views or B, a person insulting or condescending because they dont agree with your opinion.

LighterGuy wrote: »

Einhard,
just to bring it to your attention I was responding to orestes after he said didnt I realise it was a discussion site.

The post is above mate.

Erm?

chucken1

orestes wrote: »

Complaining about how people express their opinions is different to complaining about the nature of serious discussion of a serious subject though. I'm not arguing about how the politics forum users express their opinions, because to be honest I very rarely venture into that forum, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect people in a forum dedicated to a subject to be derided for having their discussions on their own level and in their own terminology. I don't just mean this in terms of the politics forum, I mean it in terms of general discussion, like I said about jugglers and someone else on this thread said about plumbers.

Unfortunately in this instance the subject matter is something that has become quickly important for a lot of people who previously had no interest in it and aren't familiar with the terminology and process of political discussion, which I reckon has just added to the feelings of frustration that caused them to take up an interest in politics in the first place. Double rejection + perceived elitism + circumstances = anger.

I just don't agree with expecting people in the know to pander to those who aren't willing to make the effort to understand the subject matter in question and will spend their time whining instead, roads go both ways

Good lad!

orestes

chucken1 wrote: »

Good lad!

Ok, so rather than address a single point that I made in the post regarding the nature of discussion, the political forum, the points you have made here or anything else, you have decided to focus on a throw-away extrapolation I made of the circumstances that I think might have been contributing factors to the frustration and anger that led to the creation of this thread?

Given the nature of the opening point I apologise if any of that was too difficult for you to follow by the way, if AH is too heavy in technical terminology for you I'll meet you in the Nest

chucken1

orestes wrote: »

Ok, so rather than address a single point that I made in the post regarding the nature of discussion, the political forum, the points you have made here or anything else, you have decided to focus on a throw-away extrapolation I made of the circumstances that I think might have been contributing factors to the frustration and anger that led to the creation of this thread?

Given the nature of the opening point I apologise if any of that was too difficult for you to follow by the way, if AH is too heavy in technical terminology for you I'll meet you in the Nest

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

orestes

chucken1 wrote: »

Good lad!

chucken1 wrote: »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70510273&postcount=23

Einhard

chucken1 wrote: »

Good lad!

chucken1 wrote: »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Says it all really. Perhaps you could set up your own politics website, and insist that posters only use one syllable words, and preferably post in big bubble writing using brightly coloured crayons? Would that make things "simplified" enough for you?

orestes

Einhard wrote: »

Says it all really. Perhaps you could set up your own politics website, and insist that posters only use one syllable words, and preferably post in big bubble writing using brightly coloured crayons? Would that make things "simplified" enough for you?

Oh look, something shiny!

chucken1

Einhard wrote: »

Says it all really. Perhaps you could set up your own politics website, and insist that posters only use one syllable words, and preferably post in big bubble writing using brightly coloured crayons? Would that make things "simplified" enough for you?

Are'nt the pair of you real smart!

orestes

chucken1 wrote: »

Are'nt the pair of you real smart!

Intelligence is not necessarily inversely proportionate to ignorance

pow wow

It feels a bit elitist in there but hey, that's politics

latenia

I get the impression that some of the most prolific posters there are current or former members of university toss-clubs such as UCD's L&H or TCD's Phil which are both notorious breeding grounds for Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael party hacks.

mconigol

chucken1 wrote: »

Hang on now..thats a bit mean! Im not an 18 year old on the beer.
My point is that questions are asked and it get into a debate between the "regulars"

My advice: stay out of politics if you consider that poster to be mean! You wouldn't last two minutes!