Data Protection Access Request

wandererz

Hi,

I wish to make a Data Protection Access request to the Gardai.
However, the application form states:

"I wish to apply for access to a copy of my personal data that may be in existence within An Garda Siochana specifically in respect of the following: Please Specify: ...."

I've read online that applications are returned if the request is too general and that you are requested to specify access to which records/databases etc. How the heck is any normal person supposed to know this?

What is the most comprehensive request i can specify in the "Please Specify: ...." bit above?

Thanks,
W.

MagicSean

Really depends on what you want to know

wandererz

k_mac wrote: »

Really depends on what you want to know

Thanks, very informative comment.

To clarify for everone else as per my original post "What is the most comprehensive request" i.e. i want to know everything about me that can be released.

Alternativley, what are the individual options which can be specified.

Probably best only comment if you have experience in this or else you will be wasting bandwidth and time.

MagicSean

wandererz wrote: »

Thanks, very informative comment.

To clarify for everone else as per my original post "What is the most comprehensive request" i.e. i want to know everything about me that can be released.

Alternativley, what are the individual options which can be specified.

Probably best only comment if you have experience in this or else you will be wasting bandwidth and time.

What a nice person you are.

amdublin

wandererz wrote: »

Thanks, very informative comment.

To clarify for everone else as per my original post "What is the most comprehensive request" i.e. i want to know everything about me that can be released.

Alternativley, what are the individual options which can be specified.

Probably best only comment if you have experience in this or else you will be wasting bandwidth and time.

And they've asked you to specify.

Going around in circles here dude.

wandererz

k_mac wrote: »

What a nice person you are.

I am really, however "Please specify: Really depends on what you want to know " isn't going to get me anywhere.

MagicSean

Then perhaps you could state what you want to get out of the request or why you are requesting it. "i want everything" is hardly much to go on.

EDIT: Now i remember you. Aren't you the one who was disappointed that the man working in the Gatso van in Louth wasn't burnt alive inside it? Yes, you're a lovely person.

wandererz

No i am not that person. I'm just requesting valid advice rather than people making comments which lead to nothing.

You're not really painting a great picture for yourself of the type of person who gives good advice.

Looking back at your comments you've been aimlessly commenting on other threads as well on a regular basis.

Can you provide some valid advice here please as per the original request?
If not please get off my thread and spend your Sunday more fruitfully.

MagicSean

wandererz wrote: »

No i am not that person. I'm just requesting valid advice rather than people making comments which lead to nothing.

You're not really painting a great picture for yourself of the type of person who gives good advice.

Looking back at your comments you've been aimlessly commenting on other threads as well on a regular basis.

Can you provide some valid advice here please as per the original request?
If not please get off my thread and spend your Sunday more fruitfully.

Sorry you are right. It was the guy who thanked your post who did that. My apologies.

I've asked you a valid question in order to help you but you have not answered. I'm sorry you disagree with my posting history. I like to think I'm generally informative.

And it's not your thread.

wandererz

Ok. Apologies on my part for sounding rude.

Perhaps i will rephrase in case i was not clear.

What options are available to me to specify what information i require?

It is my understanding that there are several databases which can be queried, however the average person on the street is not made aware of what these databases are or of what types of information the Gardai may hold on people or indeed of what can be requested.

Perhaps i can request details of all criminal records held about me and/or of all records of being a "suspected offender"? But what other options are available as well?

As far as i am concerned, there should be no such records held about me whatsoever. However to me it is like a credit rating - you never know unless you make the request.

In terms of the reasons for the request there could be many: the info held about you, me and everyone else could affect applications one may make to other authorities or governments.

To me it seems best to know about this beforehand so that erroneous information may be requested to be removed. One could request access to one type of information, however because of ignorance one may not have made a comprehensive request for other data held about oneself.

In making the initial request however, what is the most comprehensive request available under the Data Protection Act in terms of information which can readily be disseminated?

James Jones

I’ve made a request that uncovered that I have a Caution on my record without my even being spoken to by a Garda even though a Caution requires that the accused accepts their guilt in writing and that the Caution is given in writing.
I’ll dig it out for you over the next few days as my request must have been general enough but resulted in my receiving information that I did not even know existed.

wandererz

James Jones wrote: »

I’ve made a request that uncovered that I have a Caution on my record without my even being spoken to by a Garda even though a Caution requires that the accused accepts their guilt in writing and that the Caution is given in writing.
I’ll dig it out for you over the next few days as my request must have been general enough but resulted in my receiving information that I did not even know existed.

Thanks James,

Most informative. Would appreciate the wording of your request or any other info.

James Jones

I should be able to do that some time later tonight.

EDIT: Sorry but I won't get access to that material until sometime tomorrow.

MinnyMinor

wandererz wrote: »

Thanks James,

Most informative. Would appreciate the wording of your request or any other info.

if you want all info can you not just ask for copies of all records held? If nt happy with response complain to data protectuion commissioner. I expect his office will see you get all you are entitled to

James Jones

wandererz wrote: »

Thanks James,

Most informative. Would appreciate the wording of your request or any other info.

Sorry wandererz but my request was a bit more specific than I remembered. I asked for any information that the Gardai had in relation to me and named the Garda stations that I had any dealings with.

MinnyMinor wrote: »

if you want all info can you not just ask for copies of all records held? If nt happy with response complain to data protectuion commissioner. I expect his office will see you get all you are entitled to

Your regard for the Data Protection Commission would be a lot higher than mine. When I complained to them that the Caution was not included in my request, their investigation found my complaint to be "vexatious"!!!

MinnyMinor

James Jones wrote: »

Sorry wandererz but my request was a bit more specific than I remembered. I asked for any information that the Gardai had in relation to me and named the Garda stations that I had any dealings with.



Your regard for the Data Protection Commission would be a lot higher than mine. When I complained to them that the Caution was not included in my request, their investigation found my complaint to be "vexatious"!!!

i have not had much to do with them, but their site says they follow up complaints. maybe you should complain to the garda ombudsman re the way in which the caution was processed

Our man in Havana

I think some people may have failed the attitude test.

MinnyMinor

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I think some people may have failed the attitude test.

what do you mean? if he is entitled to info how can his attitude affect it?

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

Sorry wandererz but my request was a bit more specific than I remembered. I asked for any information that the Gardai had in relation to me and named the Garda stations that I had any dealings with.



Your regard for the Data Protection Commission would be a lot higher than mine. When I complained to them that the Caution was not included in my request, their investigation found my complaint to be "vexatious"!!!

I don't understand. How do you know there is a caution on your record if it wasn't included in the documents you received?

MinnyMinor wrote: »

if you want all info can you not just ask for copies of all records held? If nt happy with response complain to data protectuion commissioner. I expect his office will see you get all you are entitled to

You have to be more specific so they can give you what your looking for and know where to look for it. You can't just say everything.

James Jones

MinnyMinor wrote: »

i have not had much to do with them, but their site says they follow up complaints. maybe you should complain to the garda ombudsman re the way in which the caution was processed

Already did and they also found my complaint "vexatious". I'm afraid the person who made the allegation about me is in a relationship with a Garda.

k_mac wrote: »

I don't understand. How do you know there is a caution on your record if it wasn't included in the documents you received?.

The actual Caution was not included but a record of it was.

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

Already did and they also found my complaint "vexatious". I'm afraid the person who made the allegation about me is in a relationship with a Garda.



The actual Caution was not included but a record of it was.

The actual caution? It's verbal.

James Jones

Adult Cautioning Scheme

When is the caution administered?

If it is decided to administer a caution, the member in charge of the Garda station arranges a suitable time and venue for the administering of the caution by the Superintendent. Once the caution is administered, a copy of the completed Adult Caution Referral Form is given to the offender.

I was not given a verbal caution and the requirement to give me a copy of the completed Adult Caution Referral Form was not complied with.

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

I was not given a verbal caution and the requirement to give me a copy of the completed Adult Caution Referral Form was not complied with.

When was your request and where was the adult caution recorded?

Victor

If you have a long history with the Garda, either ask them for (a) a list of record or (b) tell them its about the time you murdered the hitch-hikers.

If you have had negligible history with the Garda ask for the full file, explaining you expect it to be short.

James Jones

k_mac wrote: »

When was your request and where was the adult caution recorded?

My request was in 2009 and the Caution, which was supposedly administered by telephone, is recorded as happening at the station where the report was received in August 2008.

Adult Cautioning Scheme

An Adult Cautioning Scheme approved by the Director of Public Prosecutions came into force on the 1st February, 2006

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

My request was in 2009 and the Caution, which was supposedly administered by telephone, is recorded as happening at the station where the report was received in August 2008.

Adult Cautioning Scheme

It's kind of odd because cautions weren't recorded on the computer system until a few months ago. So I'm just wondering in what format it was recorded in the information supplied to you. Was it linked to a particular incident you received information on? Did it actually state a date you had received a caution or was it the same date as the incident?

James Jones

k_mac wrote: »

It's kind of odd because cautions weren't recorded on the computer system until a few months ago. So I'm just wondering in what format it was recorded in the information supplied to you. Was it linked to a particular incident you received information on? Did it actually state a date you had received a caution or was it the same date as the incident?

Yeah, its kinda odd alright!!!

It was in a record I received detailing any incident that I was alleged to have been involved in (including being a witness ay a road traffic accident).
It was linked to a particular incident.
The record I received does not specify the date the caution allegedly occurred but my subsequent complaint revealed that it was administered by telephone.

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

Yeah, its kinda odd alright!!!

It was in a record I received detailing any incident that I was alleged to have been involved in (including being a witness ay a road traffic accident).
It was linked to a particular incident.
The record I received does not specify the date the caution allegedly occurred but my subsequent complaint revealed that it was administered by telephone.

Well if I take you at face value, I can say that I doubt there is actually an adult caution recorded on your personal file on the computers. Back then they were only linked to incidents and not to people and only indicated the intention of the investigating Garda. Thankfully this confusing sytem has been replaced so if you request the information again I doubt there would be a caution recorded on your personal file.

As to the response to your complaint I cannot explain that. I can think of some reasons but it would just be speculation without knowing more facts.

James Jones

Doesn’t really matter to me if it’s on computer or not. It’s on record, as it had to be for the Data Protection request to unearth it. What I’m concerned about is the fact that a caution is on my record and I have been told it was administered by telephone when
1) it has to be in writing and
2) I did not admit to being guilty of any offence.

Our man in Havana

Could it be some sort of informal caution? Like when someone is cautioned for traffic offences?

James Jones

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Could it be some sort of informal caution? Like when someone is cautioned for traffic offences?

Can't find any regulation for informal cautioning on the Adult Cautioning Scheme.

MagicSean

James Jones wrote: »

Doesn’t really matter to me if it’s on computer or not. It’s on record, as it had to be for the Data Protection request to unearth it. What I’m concerned about is the fact that a caution is on my record and I have been told it was administered by telephone when
1) it has to be in writing and
2) I did not admit to being guilty of any offence.

Like I said, it's not necessarily on your record at all. It merely looks that way when you look at the incident record without an understanding of the database system in use. But I would be fairly confident it is not on your personal record if you were never formally cautioned. Recent changes to the system have addressed this so if you were to make a new request you might better be able to understand the results.

James Jones wrote: »

Can't find any regulation for informal cautioning on the Adult Cautioning Scheme.

An informal caution may simply be the Garda telling you not to act the maggot again. It is not covered by statute. It might only be referred to in his notes on the incident.

Not all people who are referred for an adult caution get formally cautioned. They can be prosecuted if it is deemed necessary. Similarly the incident may be considered not serious enough for a formal caution and an informal warning about future conduct may be considered sufficient.

James Jones

You are assuming an awful lot there, K_Mac.

k_mac wrote: »

it's not necessarily on your record at all. It merely looks that way when you look at the incident record without an understanding of the database system in use.

I didn’t look at the incident record so understanding the data system in use is not relevant. What I did was make a Data Protection access request and the result was that I found out I had a caution

k_mac wrote: »

An informal caution may simply be the Garda telling you not to act the maggot again

Well, I wasn’t told anything because the Gardai did not contact me.

k_mac wrote: »

an informal warning about future conduct may be considered sufficient

but again, I was not contacted or informed or informally warned at any stage. I would not have known that I was cautioned if I has not made the access request. I would not have known that this caution was adminsterd by telephone if I had not complained about the fact that there was a caution on my record. If it is not on my record, I’m sure I would have been told when I made my complaint.
Is it possible that the Garda who is involved with the person who reported me just claimed to have cautioned me and recorded this on the incident record?
I.E., He have made it up, is there anything to stop him writing it down?