Would you be in favor of Labour SF Coalition

Tail Wagger

Well looking at all the permutations as an alternative Government, I was in a discussion the other night about a Labour SF coalition... It started of in the usual manner of oh no we couldn't have that.

We all believe it's time for a change, but how would you feel if this was the outcome?
No one want's FF, FG & Labour seem to be getting further away from each others policies, So I think this alternative suggestion might not be a bad idea..

By the looks of the polls and the way they are going, Labour & SF might have enough seats between them to form a coalition government?

Their (Labour & SF) main policy I'd be agreeable on would be to tax the rich people who have being rolling in it over the past 10 years or so...

Lets know your point of view, we are all suggesting Lab & FG, FG & Independents, have your say, thanks!

kev9100

I want a Labour led government, but I don't think I'd be comfortable with SF in government. Just imajine Gerry Adams as a minister. He'd make Mary Coughlan look competent.

Dr. Baltar

It would be great for a freer society. We'd have gay marriage ect. and a lot more. But I fear that businesses would run out of the country immediately if they heard that they were going to be taxed heavier.

Permabear

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Nody

I would LOVE it, it would be the fastest way to have Ireland to default on the loans and get that done with. It will also finally force some financial realities on people when their (yes that is the poor and middle man people) get their taxes raised by at least 20% since they are the only once left to tax in the country (rich people will already have moved their money out of the country and the once earning an income is already paying over 80% of the income tax so good luck on getting more there while companies will simply up and leave, yes that includes Intel etc. as a factory/manufacturing line can easily be moved to another country).

That will put a final nail in that coffin and that is very much well deserved and waiting. People might actually start to think longer then "it is not my fault, tax the rich instead" slogan then.

Igcuimhne81

Permabear wrote: »

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Do you have to have a degree to quailfy as a minister? I dont remember that being part of the criteria. I think B Lenihan is a qualified Barrister and yet when it comes to telling us how much this bank bailout will cost, he gets it wrong time after time after time.

SF have, in accordance with numerous distinguished experts on financial & economic matters (Stiglitz, closer to home McWilliams, Kelly) called it right.
To use the NPRF to inject a stimulus into the economy makes perfect sense. It is our "rainy day" money, as McCreevey called it. The current government policy, to be followed by FG/Lab is to shovel it into zombie banks.
This is daft, and anyone who cannot see that is also daft.

Most international and national experts on financial and economic matters agree that Ireland will default anyway. If not now, in two years time. George Soros has stated we are crazy to take on this debt.

In fact, I cannot find one independent observer, outside of the political elite in Ireland and Europe, that agrees with what Ireland is doing.

The crux of this issue is that this bailout is not based on sound economic or financial reasoning. It is based purely on a political decision to protect the euro. It the banks based in Ireland fail (with an estimated 25% of the value of all loans made in the Eurozone) then it is likely to put so much pressure on the euro that a collapse of the euro will occur. If the banks based in Ireland collapse, a devaluation of the Euro will be on the cards which would lead to high inflation and higher interest rates not just in Ireland but throughout Europe. This is not politically desirable, particularly in Germany, where they had high regard to the Duetschmark (also for obvious historical reasons).

So the decision has been made to "contain" the problem. Consider what that means, to me it reads that the banking problem is a eurozone problem, not solely an Irish one. It has simply manifested itself in Ireland first (first among eurozone countries). So it is wholly immoral, illogical and unworkable that Irish taxpayers shoulder the burden of this bailout when this crisis is common currency problem throughout the eurozone.

Igcuimhne81

Igcuimhne81 wrote: »

SF have, in accordance with numerous distinguished experts on financial & economic matters (Stiglitz, closer to home McWilliams, Kelly) called it right.
To use the NPRF to inject a stimulus into the economy makes perfect sense. It is our "rainy day" money, as McCreevey called it. The current government policy, to be followed by FG/Lab is to shovel it into zombie banks.
This is daft, and anyone who cannot see that is also daft.

Most international and national experts on financial and economic matters agree that Ireland will default anyway. If not now, in two years time. George Soros has stated we are crazy to take on this debt.

Welcome to Boards on the offchance that you haven't another username here.
This has been discussed many times on many threads here.
All parties bar FF,if you want to use the word default are talking about a negotiated default now leaving us with a manageable debt.
None of them bar Sinn Féin are of the view that we should default on the lot,spend money twice out of the NPRF as it theres double the amount in it and then go back to the markets for more money in a year.
Thats would be crazy.

If SF were to go into government with Labour,they would have modified that stance to something more realistic.

johnmcdnl

Permabear wrote: »

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because the ministers for finnance up til now with their degrees and air of cleverness did such a great job

yes SF and Labour's policies might sound daft but taking swings at them because they "don't have a degree" or "don't have financial intellect" is a bit silly isn't it..

Were you out crying that Brian Cowen was a terrible minister for finance when he was in office??? despite him having a degree it turned out he wasn't such a great minister after all..

maybe the reason pearse doherty has being running repeatedly for office and not being successful is because people believed that FF were actually doing a good job so of course no one wanted to say stop or cop on or slow down or do anything bar listen to FF because the country was doing great...

why would anyone in their right mind vote left when they were getting great pay checks every month and life was great... turns out it was all a crock of ****e... maybe if pearse doherty and joan burton and Lab/SF coalition was running the country for the past 10 years we wouldn't be where we are today?

who knows - all I know is that FG has a finnance spokesperson that I don't know -yes I'm following the parties and I haven't noticed or came across FG's finance spokesperson which leads me to believe their not very good or terrible at media coverage and has somehow managed to avoid my radar so far, and if I haven't noticed them there's going to be a hell of a lot of other people who haven't got a notion either, probably not people who post here but the average joe soaps who flicks through the newspapers and flicks over to RTE news now and then - and a leader who's afraid of going on a TV debate because the presenter might bully him (makes you think of how good a representative he'll be in the EU for us)

just because you have a degree in Law or Medicine or something doesn't make you a better politician in regards to finance - Googling has told me that Michael Noonan is the FG finance spokesperson - who is a "qualified" teacher - which is going to be very helpful when he's minister for finance no doubt??

the system is broken - we need finance people as minister for finance, doctors/nurses as health ministers, etc etc

taking a swing at Pearse Doherty because he hasn't got a degree is just trying to sneak a low blow - and anyone can come straight back that all the other parties Finance spokespeople are just as badly positioned as him and have no real experience with financial matters...

Permabear

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wolfpawnat

Didn't know you had to have a degree to do well at something and understand it! In that case most of us here don't know anything about anything.

I would love an all left government. SF and Labour are not idiots. They know that Corp Tax will have to remain at its lucrative rate and that they need to continue to make Ireland remain a ideal business location, with a well educated work force (something I suspect FG and FF will not do via the reintroduction of third level fees).

The banks will not get any more of OUR money and in turn the new government would have only to pay back the IMF the money spent already.

Though many do not believe that Adams would be the best thing for the Irish Parliament, you know he will put Sarkozy in his box the next time he mentions our Corporation Tax, something that is essential to remind Europe we do have a backbone.

I think the likes of Caoimhin o Caolain would be a great edition to the front bench, he is well spoken, educated in what he speaks about and has people skills, all things that many of our current lot and those in FG lack!

I do not think Burton would make a good finance minister, she is rude and uncooperative and that is not something we can deal with at this time! She disgraced herself and her party the other night on Vincent Brown and in my opinion acted in a manner that will cost Labour some votes!

I like Gilmore, I think he would be a good Taoiseach, but he needs to remember the true meaning of the labour party. Passing that finance bill, that slaughtered the low paid, attacked the vulnerable and forcing all of those on the lower tiers of society further down into the depths of financial woes. Not what Larkin and Connolly dedicated their lives to!

Permabear

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Igcuimhne81

Deleted User wrote: »

Welcome to Boards on the offchance that you haven't another username here.
This has been discussed many times on many threads here.
All parties bar FF,if you want to use the word default are talking about a negotiated default now leaving us with a manageable debt.
None of them bar Sinn Féin are of the view that we should default on the lot,spend money twice out of the NPRF as it theres double the amount in it and then go back to the markets for more money in a year.
Thats would be crazy.

If SF were to go into government with Labour,they would have modified that stance to something more realistic.

FG & Lab have been talking about re-negotiating the interest rate. Nothing else. This has more or less been blown out of the water by Trichet in recent days. There will be no re-negotiation.
There may be a EU concensus to increase the size of fund, thus allowing the interest rate to be dropped.
Merkel has stated that bondholders should take some of the hit, but only from 2013.
Can you define what a 'manageable debt' is? How much? What interest rate? Over what term?
Do you not think, that if such loan arrangement was available (without causing the bank debt to spread throughout eurozone) it would have been used?

The reality is, the banks in Ireland are bankrupt. Like any other private institution they should be put into liquidation and wound up.

There is no 'managable debt', not without threatening a threat of the survival of the euro.

People need to wake up to this, take off the blinkers and accept we cannot afford this debt. Any 'managable debt' level is tantamount to an attack on the euro itself. Face reality.

johnmcdnl

Permabear wrote: »

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I know who Michael Noonan is alright don't worry I'm not that bad..
I'm talking about why I haven't noticed him in the papers or on the news lately..

Seems to be keeping a very low profile for a potential minister for finance..

Permabear

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Igcuimhne81

Igcuimhne81 wrote: »

FG & Lab have been talking about re-negotiating the interest rate. Nothing else.

Incorrect,they've at the very least been talking about killing the unsecured debt eg stuff like the €750 million of unsecured debt anglo paid back last week..
I'll paraphrase Eamon Gilmore from two days ago [RTE news friday night].
"Trichet is an EU civil servant,a very good EU civil servant.
Like all good EU civil servants,he implements the word of the current agreement....just like he will implement the new one when it is agreed"
No one knows what that will entail.
What we do know is,we need the markets more than they need us.

Nehaxak

No. There's too many differences between the parties (at a grassroots level, on the ground, groan...) and historical bitching from Labour candidates that I wouldn't be happy with SF going into government with them.

Strangely enough, on the other hand, I'd much prefer to see SF going into government with FG as I think the differences between the parties are surmountable more so than SF and Labour. Would feel SF would properly balance out FG policies, rather than Labour who lack any backbone.
The differences between FG and SF are legitimate and there's been very little childishness and bitching between FG and SF.

Labour on the other hand have done nothing but bitch and moan about SF when out canvassing, telling people it's a wasted vote as are votes for independents, taking credit for work that SF has done, blatantly telling lies at the doors and when questioned on same exclaiming that "it was worth a try" ffs, and it's not the first time they've done this either.

So no, would not be in favour of SF going into government with Labour.

Content enough myself for SF to be in opposition with more candidates and build upon their gains from this election on the back of the failures incoming from a FG/Labour government.

To be quiet honest about it too, I don't think it a forgone conclusion that FG will go into government with Labour either.

wolfpawnat

Permabear wrote: »

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You can have an education on what you are talking about WITHOUT having a degree!

Permabear wrote: »

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Sadly yes, she would get it, but I don't have to like it. And she will have to be re-elected to first be eligible for the position.

And as regards Corp Tax they will not be allowed by Labour, so it is safe enough I would say!

Igcuimhne81

Permabear wrote: »

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1. Pearse Doherty, who has successfully run for councillor, Seanad and the Dail, would have far more credibilty in international terms as Finance Minister as SF have called it right on the bank debt. (Which is not our debt btw, as you claim)

2.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22863
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3f4ac29a-0258-11e0-ac33-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1DAnegLMW
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-06/soros-mistrusts-eu-aid-costs-as-ireland-s-default-risk-soars-euro-credit.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-11/stiglitz-says-ireland-has-bleak-prospect-of-cutting-deficit-saving-banks.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/26/opinion/26krugman.html

Note, Stiglitz's recommendation to inject a stimulus into the Irish economy. SF propose to do this using the NPRF.

Once the bank debt has lifted, Ireland can used the fund in the NTMA to temporarily funf the deficit. The deficit can fall through broadening the tax base and by virtue of a €7bn stimulus injection, creating revenue and reducing the SWelfarte bill. As the deficit falls, and Ireland no longer has the bank debt, we can confidently return to the bond markets to borrow at reasonable rates. In case you didnt notice, Ireland was able to borrow pre September 2010. It was only after the government extended the gaurantee that the markets realised we had no viable plan in place and that the game was up - then the bonds markets effectively shut us off, knowing that our government was intent on persisting with the bank gaurantee.
Think about it, what is the purpose of a deadline in the gaurantee? It is to say, that this is temporary and that by a certain time we wont be taking on this bank debt anymore.
It worked for two years, but once the government tried to bluff by extending the gaurantee then the game was up. They lost all credibility. They got shut out of the markets.


Now, as asked previously, but remaining unanswered. Who, outside of Europes political circles, supports what the Irish government is doing?

derrybhoy

Sinn fein are a party that has come through a lot.They are very hard working and dedicated to there constituents and community.The usual attacks and lie's that will intensify over the next few weeks will not work this time people have moved on.I for one will be voting for my sinn fein candidate in wexford you know where they stand,With the citizens of this country.

K_user

Tail Wagger wrote: »

We all believe it's time for a change, but how would you feel if this was the outcome?

I would be ashamed and embarrassed if SF where elected into power, full stop.

flutered

one has to assume that if sf were negotiating with the imf we would have got a far better deal as they are used to negotiating, with labour constantly whinging about sf they must be worried, people were asking for a new party in the dail, perhaps after the election sf will be that party, i believe one the new goverment are in and sees the condition of the balance sheets it will have no option but to bring in a mini budget, which will tax again, rather than job creation, as this has always been the easy way out in this country, a brake on this is urgently required.

Nody

Igcuimhne81 wrote: »

Once the bank debt has lifted, Ireland can used the fund in the NTMA to temporarily funf the deficit. The deficit can fall through broadening the tax base and by virtue of a €7bn stimulus injection, creating revenue and reducing the SWelfarte bill.

You are aware that SF also wants to reverse all cuts so the NTMA funds will literally speaking last 1 year only at current expenses? You're then claiming that their injection would create 20 Billion in additional tax revenues a year? Tax revenues which were driven in the golden years by house sales, not income tax? And all this revenue is going to come from building a couple of hundred schools and clinics (i.e. not private sale and no sales tax property) and the builders working there? Keep in mind that the staffing costs are NOT included in SFs numbers, only building them.

As the deficit falls, and Ireland no longer has the bank debt, we can confidently return to the bond markets to borrow at reasonable rates.

Yea, all bond holders will love to buy the bonds 1 year after you burn them, sure... Ask how long it has taken Argentina (classic example that people wanting to burn bond holders talk about) before they got back to the market. Their bonds today tends to be high singles or even double digit interest rates and the amount they raise would not even cover a single year of deficit costs (not even talking covering to keep existing loans rolling). This means that you can forget the market as a option if you burn the bond holders or expect to pay high double digit interest rates for the money; how is that better then borrowing at 6% from EU?

In case you didnt notice, Ireland was able to borrow pre September 2010.

At increasingly higher rates. Ireland can go out and borrow on the market today as well and not use the EU funds; it would be utterly stupid doing due to cost so but the possibility is there.

cathaldonnelly

Yep probably would go for a SF/Labour coalition govt. SF would kick Labour into shape and hold them to their promises (no easy task). After all most of Labour policy consists of recycled and reworded Sinn Féin proposals ie. wealth tax, second band of tax minus credits etc.

FG and SF would never happen too many ideological and economic differences. Thats the thing about the Shinners, no bull and definitely no coalition with a polar opposite party.

SF would be great for the country me believes. As do numerous domestic and international economists these days.

SF have went back on the high corp tax idea if i'm not mistaken.
Oh and come on Doherty's a bit of a ledge

Lockstep

Permabear wrote: »

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What an unbelievably patronising view.


I can appreciate he has very different economic views to your own and there are probably a variety of other reasons to call him out on.
But sneering at someone for not having a degree is snobbery, particularly when so many high-flyers managed to feck things up so badly.

Pete_Cavan

Igcuimhne81 wrote: »

Note, Stiglitz's recommendation to inject a stimulus into the Irish economy. SF propose to do this using the NPRF.

Once the bank debt has lifted, Ireland can used the fund in the NTMA to temporarily funf the deficit. The deficit can fall through broadening the tax base and by virtue of a €7bn stimulus injection, creating revenue and reducing the SWelfarte bill. As the deficit falls, and Ireland no longer has the bank debt, we can confidently return to the bond markets to borrow at reasonable rates. In case you didnt notice, Ireland was able to borrow pre September 2010. It was only after the government extended the gaurantee that the markets realised we had no viable plan in place and that the game was up - then the bonds markets effectively shut us off, knowing that our government was intent on persisting with the bank gaurantee.
Think about it, what is the purpose of a deadline in the gaurantee? It is to say, that this is temporary and that by a certain time we wont be taking on this bank debt anymore.
It worked for two years, but once the government tried to bluff by extending the gaurantee then the game was up. They lost all credibility. They got shut out of the markets.

SF also propose to use the NPRF to pay for our budget deficit after they reject the IMF bailout. So they plan to use the National Pension Reserve Plan to pay our budget deficit for this year and also to use it for a stimulus package, even though there is not enough in it to cover the deficit alone. If you spend money on the deficit it is gone, you cant spend it again on a stimulus package. Anybody stupid enough to propose a plan like this should not be allowed anywhere near government. SFs plan can not work.

LostinKildare

kev9100 wrote: »

I want a Labour led government, but I don't think I'd be comfortable with SF in government. Just imajine Gerry Adams as a minister. He'd make Mary Coughlan look competent.

Agree that he's put in some woeful performances, but I think he could be an asset to govt if used properly.

He's well known and very popular in the US, for example --- might be helpful in tapping the serious wealth of Irish America.

Permabear

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Lockstep

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm unsure how you expected others to assume all that from your post, in a response to your sneering at a degree-less person. You specifically referred to the fact that he 'doesn't even have a degree' in your criticisms of him.


Other criticism of Doherty are fine but not academic snobbery.

Permabear

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nickobrien1985

Tail Wagger wrote: »

Well looking at all the permutations as an alternative Government, I was in a discussion the other night about a Labour SF coalition... It started of in the usual manner of oh no we couldn't have that.

We all believe it's time for a change, but how would you feel if this was the outcome?
No one want's FF, FG & Labour seem to be getting further away from each others policies, So I think this alternative suggestion might not be a bad idea..

By the looks of the polls and the way they are going, Labour & SF might have enough seats between them to form a coalition government?

Their (Labour & SF) main policy I'd be agreeable on would be to tax the rich people who have being rolling in it over the past 10 years or so...

Lets know your point of view, we are all suggesting Lab & FG, FG & Independents, have your say, thanks!

Tax the rich? the creators of wealth?

Lockstep

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't have an issue with these criticisms but remain baffled as to why you singled out him not having a degree in your criticism of him.

If he had a degree in history or English would you feel more confident in his ability?

Permabear

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bleg

Nope.

Liam Byrne

No, I wouldn't be in favour of anything that included SF.

Davros64

Good to see so many closed minds on here. They say a country gets the government the people deserve.....

So by closing the door to Labour/SF (with undoubtedly help from Indpts.) is helping perpetuate the same old BS the country has endured for decades!


VOTE FOR CHANGE!

Eliot Rosewater

Davros64 wrote: »

Good to see so many closed minds on here.

Delivering personal attacks like that isn't allowed around here. You can find the forum rules here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055516094

In short, deal with the issues brought up (in this case the reasons not to vote Labour/SF) rather than attacking the forum contributors.

Also, please avoid large fonts.

/mod.

Davros64

Apologies. But you either believe in Free Speech or you don't??

Saying eejits voting for the two established parties, for instance, have closed minds isn't a personal attack.
Given it's directed at about 40% of voters I feel are misguided in perpetuating the problems we face.

Them not wanting to vote for change is a relevant issue. That is sufficient reason in my book and their denial is the usual apologies for the corrupt fools who have led us in recent years.

Enough is enough.

Eliot Rosewater

Davros64 wrote: »

Saying eejits voting for the two established parties, for instance, have closed minds isn't a personal attack.

Yes, it is a personal attack. You are attacking the people voting - not the reasons they give for their vote.

Now, discussion of moderation isn't allowed on-thread. If you want to discuss it further you can PM me.

/mod

Davros64

Permabear wrote: »

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Except he's a fool totally detached from reality, imposing spending cuts on Brit.voters he's hardly going to endure himself. As one of the many millionaires in that Cabinet.
He's about the worst example you could have chosen given he has very little credibility with most voters.

Davros64

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Yes, it is a personal attack. You are attacking the people voting - not the reasons they give for their vote.

Now, discussion of moderation isn't allowed on-thread. If you want to discuss it further you can PM me.

/mod

Unless those people show 'offence', I don't take either your comments or this MB as having even the slightest credibility.....

crebel81

kev9100 wrote: »

I want a Labour led government, but I don't think I'd be comfortable with SF in government. Just imajine Gerry Adams as a minister. He'd make Mary Coughlan look competent.

How would make Mary Coughlan look competant?

Would be interesting to know why

wee truck big driver

if eamon gilmore was up for most competent bullsh1t artist of the year he would get my number 1. if it came to running the country people would soon realise hes just full of hot air and couldnt run a p1ss up in a brewery never mind a country and people should do everything possible to keep him out of goverment

Lockstep

Davros64 wrote: »

Unless those people show 'offence', I don't take either your comments or this MB as having even the slightest credibility.....

Don't argue in thread. You already warned about this and continued to do so. Doing so again will result in a ban.

If you've an issue, take it up via PM or the Feedback forum.

Ghost Estate

Are FF in it? No.
Are the Greens in it? No.

So of course I would be in favour.

Capt'n Midnight

cathaldonnelly wrote: »

After all most of Labour policy consists of recycled and reworded Sinn Féin proposals ie. wealth tax, second band of tax minus credits etc.

Not only that but some of the labour candidates are recycled Sinn Féin candidates :pac:

Please tell me what it would take to bury the hatchet between SF and The Workers Party

Thats the thing about the Shinners, no bull and definitely no coalition with a polar opposite party.

Since the Shinners are polar opposite to all the main parties on many policies that means they won't be in any coalition.

Tail Wagger

Well Guy's, the way I'm seeing things, everyone is saying Lab & FG coalition. but watching political programs on the TV, FG seem to be moving away from
Labour but at the same time just holding on to them to see if they might just get an overall majority.
Labour on the other hand have turned down SF as a no chance of a coalition..

If FK don't get enough to form an outright government( which I don't think they will) they could also go with all the Independents to make the numbers up..

The way I'm looking at it is Gilmore wants the Taoiseach's hat and the only way I can see him getting it is to out number FG which ( i don't think Lab will do) In the end there are only two more possibility's, Lab & FF which I would hate to see! and lastly as I suggested Lab & SF, remember SF's Gerry Adams has been trying to court Lab for months;

Lot's of you people have totally ruled it out, If it was to happen it would happen and we'd have no say in the matter... Sure who knows it might happen in the end, as I think that Labour will improve in their seats enough to be the cog in the works for open discussions, I rest my case ladies & gents..

tails_naf

If labour and SF sre in govt, the country is finished outright.
Based on their declared 'solutions':
- We WILL loose our FDI, as SF will ensure corp tax is 25%
- We will see big tax increases as labour want to put the cuts/tax balance on tax side
- We won't see a proper addressing of the destructive unions and PS excesses.
- We won't see a tackling of the 20bn social welfare bill (of which 2bn is fully fradulaent)
- What we will see a lot of populist ranting and sympathetic soundbites.

honestly, the country is on the brink of economic collapse. If we buckle on any of the above we will be ruined. We can't vote for 'change' purely because it is different, we have to vote for what will actually have a hope of working!

3ndahalfof6

Power is a mighty thing, look how hard Brian Cowen tried to hold on to it

no mater how bad things got he just would not see it, anything to hold on to the top job,

so I do think it is possible because the top jobs is the ultimate goal for any party leader.

and SF will dilute their stance but also know how to negotiate at a high level

if they get the opportunity to get into power it will be grabbed, but it all depends on how many seats they get and I think the country is in for a surprise by the time the seats have been filled.

tails_naf

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

it all depends on how many seats they get and I think the country is in for a surprise by the time the seats have been filled.

Yeah, never underestimate the ability of the Irish electorate to elect the worst people possible for the job. If SF get a lot of seats, it shows clearly that the people don't understand enough about the economic situation and that SF's policies would ruin us!

Tail Wagger

tails_naf wrote: »

Yeah, never underestimate the ability of the Irish electorate to elect the worst people possible for the job. If SF get a lot of seats, it shows clearly that the people don't understand enough about the economic situation and that SF's policies would ruin us!

It's the working class people and the youth who welcome SF, we can object and disagree all we like. We have a generation of youth who are now coming out of education and have no jobs or future, if they don't vote in the elections for a change they are leaving no other alternative but to emigrate in the near future.

We are loosing our youth @ 60,000 per year, we can't let this keep going. it's ok for us people to say all the bad reasons why a Lab SF coalition should never happen, maybe we all need to change our views as well as our government...

niallers1

People are knocking SF economic Policy but it wasn't SF economic policy that got us into this mess..

It was FF economic Policy and Labour and FG were sitting accross the way for 13 years watching..

Could anything really be worse than FF's 85 Billion calamity that has bankrupted the country.