What ever happened to RISE

pmac77

can anyone tell me what happened to RISE, there website is at a standstill and surley we should be using this election to our advantage :cool:

endasmail

there still going as far as i know
i know fine gael are
a letteer came in the door from a fine garl candidate damning the greens and the current government
saying how dare they attack the rural life and shooting sports ,the fine gael lads are milking it something serious
and maybe they are right to

Tackleberrywho

endasmail wrote: »

there still going as far as i know
i know fine gael are
a letteer came in the door from a fine garl candidate damning the greens and the current government
saying how dare they attack the rural life and shooting sports ,the fine gael lads are milking it something serious
and maybe they are right to

Fine Gael backed the Anti-Stag hunting bill.

R.I.S.E are still going, just very quiet

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Fine Gael backed the Anti-Stag hunting bill.

FG didn't support the FF/Green ban on stag hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0629/hunting.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0630/1224273622887.html

Interestingly Mattie McGrath abstained, as he didn't want to side with the opposition against the FF/Green ban. And Mammy O'Rourke was her usual hypocritical self.

endasmail

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Fine Gael backed the Anti-Stag hunting bill.

R.I.S.E are still going, just very quiet

you throwing them wild facts about the place again tack?

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

FG didn't support the FF/Green ban on stag hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0629/hunting.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0630/1224273622887.html

Interestingly Mattie McGrath abstained, as he didn't want to side with the opposition against the FF/Green ban. And Mammy O'Rourke was her usual hypocritical self.

166 TD's in the dail - 3 from Donegal, Dublin and wexford at the time of the vote

75 For 72 against= 147+3 unelected TD's =150

So if my sums are correct 16 did not vote which could have swung it either way

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

So if my sums are correct 16 did not vote which could have swung it either way

Who were the 16 TD's?

According to this at a rough count 47 out of 50 FG TD's voted against the bill, 51 when you remove Lee. So that leaves 12 others.

I haven't checked but it is possible that members of Government may have been missing that day. In those instances the opposition removes the same number of members on it's own benches to account for this.

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

Who were the 16 TD's?

According to this at a rough count 47 out of 50 FG TD's voted against the bill, 51 when you remove Lee. So that leaves 12 others.

Donegal had no TD, Wexford was missing one and Lee's

That must mean FF backbenchers, Lab, SF??

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Donegal had no TD, Wexford was missing one and Lee's

That must mean FF backbenchers, Lab, SF??

The important thing is who are they and why did they not vote yes or no. Did they abstain, were they missing for some reason, were they accounting for a member of the opposite side of the house?

endasmail

i dont no about TDs missing and abstaining
but i know that fine gael were present at the hunt meet in trim of last year
and were fairly vocal in their opposition to the bill
and they will play up to that fact in the run up to the election
and i suspect will get alot of votes ,in meath anyway

clivej

Well that's swung it for me then the Fine Gael's will get my vote.

cavan shooter

Where Fine Gael says they will reverse the Stag Hunting:rolleyes: Labour have definitely said they wont.

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

R.I.S.E are still going, just very quiet

yea as in silent. Like not replying to emails, updating site etc. IMO they were set up for the anti stag hunting bill and thats it. Pity though, we could do wit an organisation like that

Tackleberrywho

Dusty87 wrote: »

yea as in silent. Like not replying to emails, updating site etc. IMO they were set up for the anti stag hunting bill and thats it. Pity though, we could do wit an organisation like that

I get mails from them.
I was invited to the Ward Union Ball recently.

But yes, Stag Hunting was the main Point of it.

We really do need RISE as Rural Ireland.

pmac77

i have no real political opinion (there all tossers) but at RISE meetings I saw Sinn Fein lads talk crap about how they back us all the way, then they turned on us and then yes turned for us again, as for Fine Geal, We will overturn stag hunting laws, let people breed there dogs and so on and so on!:D but just the other day our local Fine Geal man knockin on doors passes my house, I thinck its a bit suspect

Dusty87

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I get mails from them.
I was invited to the Ward Union Ball recently.

But yes, Stag Hunting was the main Point of it.

We really do need RISE as Rural Ireland.

kinda looking like it was the main point of it tack. As regards emails, who you getting them off? Rise or the ward union? You have me confused, what has the ward union ball got to do with it? If its rise, your the only one i know of getting them. I know a good few who have sent emails and have heard nothin back.

Vizzy

johngalway wrote: »

FG didn't support the FF/Green ban on stag hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0629/hunting.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0630/1224273622887.html

Interestingly Mattie McGrath abstained, as he didn't want to side with the opposition against the FF/Green ban. ]

Mattie Mcgrath launched his election campaign in Cahir last night (maybe he was at the carcass handling course earlier)with 400 or so attendees.
Many of these were from the shooting/fishing/hunting communities( the Ward Union was even there)
I presume that they all thought Mattie was a great man for abstaining on the Stag Bill.
I have no axe to grind with Mr Mc Grath but I would just urge caution as he has a tendency to abstain on many important Dail debates(e.g finance Bill) depending on which way the "wind is blowing".

ssl

Just had a FG candidate at the door. He said they will not be introducing any restrictions to against hunting or angling.
He did say he pdidnt ersonally agree with stag hunting( ward union), but has no issue with stalking etc

Dusty87

ssl wrote: »

He did say he pdidnt ersonally agree with stag hunting( ward union), but has no issue with stalking etc

how many times have we heard similiar? 'not the thin edge of wedge' etc. I would like to vote for my local FG lad but i wouldn trust that snipey cnut Kenny.

No6

Dusty87 wrote: »

how many times have we heard similiar? 'not the thin edge of wedge' etc. I would like to vote for my local FG lad but i wouldn trust that snipey cnut Kenny.

In fairness he can't be any much worse than the last two we had runing the country at least he can't sell it down the river, your neighbour took care of that for us!!! Keep the greens out that will do rural life much more good oh and watch Labour like a hawk too, they are city slickers too!!!

Dusty87

No6 wrote: »

In fairness he can't be any much worse than the last two we had runing the country at least he can't sell it down the river, your neighbour took care of that for us!!! Keep the greens out that will do rural life much more good oh and watch Labour like a hawk too, they are city slickers too!!!

why does every one say that to me on internet forums, he not me neighbour:) i wouldn vote labour if ya paid me. The only fella so fair to use an post to deliver his leaflet. At least the others made an effort. And yea he cant be much worse but i dont like the man. The party should have gave him the boot when they had the chance.

pmac77

all through the RISE campaign all the FG lads were backing us hunting, fishing and general rural life people, then when the bills were passed in the dail and passed to the seanad the FG lads were shouting "vote us in and we will overturn this law" I havent heard a bit about it since.

Grizzly 45

Lets comment on the Pachyderm in the drawing room shall we?

Think at this stage RISE has nailed its colours to the mast.It is /was a Ward Union Stag possibly fox hunting special intrest group.Once the Stag hunting bill went through it went dead silent and has stayed so ever since.

Were it a genuine Countryside movement.It would be out now almost telling us who and who not to vote for,it would have been commenting on closing Garda stations,post offices,coursing,shooting etc etc etc.
It used any other fieldsport groups for support and now isnt giving anything back,because the Greens took their favourite toy out of the playpen and put it on the high shelf!
Pity,because if it played its cards right it could be somthing akin to the UK Countryside Alliance.
The good old adage here applies Hang together,or hang seperatly.Guess thats RISE gone down the trap now!:rolleyes:

johngalway

pmac77 wrote: »

all through the RISE campaign all the FG lads were backing us hunting, fishing and general rural life people, then when the bills were passed in the dail and passed to the seanad the FG lads were shouting "vote us in and we will overturn this law" I havent heard a bit about it since.

Link please.

cavan shooter

pmac77 wrote: »

all through the RISE campaign all the FG lads were backing us hunting, fishing and general rural life people, then when the bills were passed in the dail and passed to the seanad the FG lads were shouting "vote us in and we will overturn this law" I havent heard a bit about it since.

The closest I have seen to a hunting organisation pushing a particular party was a letter/article a few months back from Des Crofton in the ISD. FG was mentioned, I also seem to remember that Labour have said they wouldnt change the ban.

Grizzly 45

Remember that article/editorial as well. It was practicaly endorsing FG as the be all and end all solution to all our shooting and hunting ills!!
Just listening to the Who.. "Wont be fooled again".
Very appropriate,for theses present times...:rolleyes:

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

Well that's swung it for me then the Fine Gael's will get my vote.

Hm. Jim "ban handguns before target shooters open fire in a school playground" Deasy was Fine Gael though...

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

Hm. Jim "ban handguns before target shooters open fire in a school playground" Deasy was Fine Gael though...

Every party has it's token anti gun/hunting fool. Look up Ivana Bacik.

Sparks

Yeah, but Deasy wasn't reined in by Kenny even after Kenny and Flanagan met with the NARGC and others about Deasy's comments.

Personally, I think we had more luck with Howlin than we ever did with Flanagan. Howlin went round and round with McDowell at the time. Didn't do a huge amount of good, but given the circumstances, that was hard to avoid (when the FF/PDs use the whip system to bludgeon legislation through, things get hard to avoid). If he'll do that on the basis of email contact, you'd have to think he'd be more approachable during the drafting/lobbying phase of things.

Birdnuts

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Remember that article/editorial as well. It was practicaly endorsing FG as the be all and end all solution to all our shooting and hunting ills!!
Just listening to the Who.. "Wont be fooled again".
Very appropriate,for theses present times...:rolleyes:

Exactly - politicians promises are worth less then the 20 billion Zim Dollar note I have framed at home!!

IRLConor

johngalway wrote: »

Every party has it's token anti gun/hunting fool. Look up Ivana Bacik.

I really hope she doesn't win a seat. I'd hate to miss out on another opportunity to not vote for her in the Seanad elections!


To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's any party which would be sensible about firearms legislation. If we're lucky we'll end up with a government which will leave well enough alone. I don't think any of them have it in them to fix what was broken over the last few years.

Sparks

Also, we did point out last year that RISE was pretty much a project rather than a long-term movement:

Sparks wrote: »

But RISE really isn't a fair comparison. It was set up purely to do one, single, easily-definable thing (stop the stag hunt ban), against an equally easily-definable enemy (namely the Greens, a group already hated by RISE's supporters). It had a lot of money at its disposal, far more than pretty much any NGB does (seriously, the annual budget of all the shooting NGBs put together is less than many of us pay in taxes in that year). And it's opponents were the current whipping boy of the media. So its job was a lot more clearly defined and had a lot more support than any NGB's job. (And for the record, they still failed to prevent the stag hunt and the dog breeding bill had fairly widespread support even in the RISE demographic anyway so it was never more than a secondary target). RISE was mainly PR, rather than substantive change; but the NGBs main performance indicator is substantive change.

Seriously, you cannot compare the two, any more than you can compare chalk and the 1954 spanish world cup soccer team.

To be honest, it's not fair to be criticising them for not campaigning at the moment. It's not what they set up to do. Mind you, the rest of that post is still true:

Sparks wrote:

(The campaign against higher licence fees)...was entirely distributed (no central body like RISE or an NGB directing it), it was entirely word-of-mouth (using here and other means to spread that word), and it was taken directly to the TDs in their clinics and on the doorsteps and by post and email and phone; and it succeeded.

I think one of the main lessons we've learnt over the past few decades has been that agitators do more harm than good to be honest, at least with public relations. Getting people all shouty is pretty easy, but actually changing things for the better is a desperately hard, unsexy, and long-term undertaking. The ones doing the best things for us as a community tend to be the ones not doing the shouting (and half their job seems to be fixing the messes made by the shouty people).

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, but Deasy wasn't reined in by Kenny even after Kenny and Flanagan met with the NARGC and others about Deasy's comments.

Personally, I think we had more luck with Howlin than we ever did with Flanagan. Howlin went round and round with McDowell at the time. Didn't do a huge amount of good, but given the circumstances, that was hard to avoid (when the FF/PDs use the whip system to bludgeon legislation through, things get hard to avoid). If he'll do that on the basis of email contact, you'd have to think he'd be more approachable during the drafting/lobbying phase of things.

The reason Deasy wasn't reigned in is, he can't be. FG would be a lot better off without him altogether, they just need to find, nurture and run a good candidate against him. He's a liability.

That's why I fail to see the advantage of voting Labour, mostly running urban candidates, against FG, who run both urban and rural candidates where a hell of a lot of shooting and pretty much all of the hunting takes place in. People still need to contact their constituency candidates to bring shooting and hunting to their notice in a positive light.

cavan shooter

Now here is something very interesting, if only the link would work


http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

Sparks

NARGC wrote:

NARGC, R.I.S.E. and GENERAL ELECTION 2011

NARGC & Rural Ireland Says Enough (R.I.S.E.), published this general election manifesto for the purposes of informing election candidates and the general public of why fieldsports deserves to be supported and to remind all why the RISE Campaign of 2010 was necessary. Read all about it here soon. Text upload follows shortly.......

Should be interesting to read.

cavan shooter

cavan shooter wrote: »

Now here is something very interesting, if only the link would work


http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

Thats up and running now nothing new but asks use to write to the Fine GAel TDs to ensure they do what was promised

Sparks

From the NARGC site:

NARGC, R.I.S.E. and GENERAL ELECTION 2011

NARGC & Rural Ireland Says Enough (R.I.S.E.), published this general election manifesto for the purposes of informing election candidates and the general public of why fieldsports deserves to be supported and to remind all why the RISE Campaign of 2010 was necessary.

Who/what is RISE?
RISE is a partnership between the Irish delegation of the Federation of Associations for Hunting and Conservation of the EU (FACE Ireland) and the Hunting Association of Ireland (HAI). FACE Ireland and the HAI represent the interests of some 300,000 Irish people who happen to be fieldsports enthusiasts and who are members of different national organisations representing different fieldsports disciplines and traditions.

Who are these organisations?
The constituent organisations of FACE Ireland and the HAI which support RISE, both ideologically and financially are:
National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC)
The Irish Masters of Foxhounds Association (IMFHA)
The Irish Coursing Club (ICC)
Irish Masters of Harriers Association (IMHA)
Irish Foot Harriers Association (IFHA)
Irish Masters of Beagles Association (IMBA)
Irish Masters of Mink Hounds Association (IMMHA)
Ward Union Staghounds
Irish Deer Society (IDS)
Irish Wild Deer Association
Irish Hawking Club (IHC)
Irish Game Protection Association (IGPA)
Countryside Alliance Ireland (CAI)
The Federation of Irish Salmon and Sea Trout Anglers (FISSTA)

Why was RISE formed?
RISE was formed by the constituent organisations of FACE Ireland and the HAI in response to the Programme for Government agreed between Fianna Fáil and the Green Party which included the banning of carted stag hunting which was practised by the Ward Union Stag Hounds, the last remaining such hunt in the world and the inclusion of hunt kennels in legislation drafted to regulate commercial puppy farms. These two elements of the Programme posed a most serious threat to fieldsports and was seen as the beginning of the implementation of the Green Party’s stated agenda to ban all fieldsports. The fact that Fianna Fáil was prepared to sacrifice hunting sounded alarm bells for all rural dwellers.

Why are fieldsports important?
Fieldsports are important to society, socially and economically and are part of what we are as a tolerant society. In Ireland, fieldsports generates €111m for the Irish economy annually, of which 83% is spent in rural areas, and employs a great many people on both a fulltime and part time basis. Many thousands of people are employed in the horse industry, in outdoor retail, in clothing outlets, in veterinary, in sport fishing, in hunts and their kennels, in game farming etc. Fieldsports also provide a huge social outlet for the tens of thousands of participants and their families

What about the ethics of hunting?
In Ireland hunting is predominantly non-commercial and therefore hunting pressure is low. Every hunting association conducts itself by reference to a strict code of ethics. The key concepts for Irish hunting associations are “The wise and sustainable use of renewable natural resources.” This is a concept which is supported by the EU, most governments and by the World Conservation Union (IUCN). Wise and sustainable use is at the centre of the European Sustainable Hunting Charter to which all Irish hunting associations affiliated to FACE Ireland and the HAI subscribe.

Why should people hunt in a modern society?
If hunting is sustainable, ethical, well regulated, supported by both domestic and international legislation, contributes socially and financially to society and is enjoyed by a large section of the population, it is not a question of why hunt but more a question of why not? It is an outdoor activity which keeps all participants of all ages healthy and active into later life. It is also an activity which participants find thoroughly enjoyable.

What are the benefits of hunting and fieldsports?
As already stated, hunting contributes both socially and economically to society. But more than that, hunting contributes to managing and maintaining the balance between species which no longer occurs due to mankind’s influence on the natural landscape. For example, gamekeepering ensures the correct balance between predators and prey. This benefits not only species such as game birds but also benefits all other bird species, especially ground nesting birds. Game management also benefits wildlife through the creation and enhancement of habitats such as wetlands, woodlands, the planting of crops specifically for wildlife, the creation and management of hedgerows etc. These are all activities, the benefits of which society as a whole tends to take for granted. But they each require the commitment of people with an ethos and understanding of the importance of conservation and they also require money. Hunting provides those essential elements.

Apart from animal rights groups, what are the threats to fieldsports?
The Fianna Fáil/Green Party coalition government has been one of the greatest threats to fieldsports in recent years. However, among the greater threats to fieldsports, and hunting in particular, is illegal hunting which unfortunately the relevant authorities seem to have little enthusiasm for tackling. The rampant poaching of deer is a good example of this. There are also the vested interests of certain state institutions which have an interest in exploiting game species for commercial considerations. Again, deer have been the target of these interests. There has been an insidious campaign to demonise deer. The removal of deer from the protected list has even been discussed and contemplated. It is ironic that the forestry interests, including Coillte, the state owned forestry company, have been responsible for the increase in the distribution of deer about which they now complain. Afforestation has been responsible for the destruction of vast areas of heather moorland, the primary habitat of Red Grouse, a Red Data species, and a priority habitat under the Habitats Directive. These threats must be resisted by all right thinking fieldsports enthusiasts who should make their expectations clear to public representatives and national authorities.

Which political parties should fieldsports support?
It is not the function of NARGC or RISE to tell any citizen how they should vote in elections. We can only remind people why RISE was formed and that while there are good individual political supporters in all parties, the fact remains that Fianna Fáil was prepared to sacrifice one of our hunts to the Green Party which has a policy to abolish all fieldsports. The Labour Party and Sinn Féin were supportive of fieldsports on the vote to ban the Ward Union Staghounds but voted for the puppy farm legislation which included hunt kennels within its scope. While Sinn Féin and the Labour Party offered some support, the only party to consistently support fieldsports was Fine Gael which gave a written and public commitment that when in Government, it would repeal the legislation banning carted stag hunting. It also voted against the inclusion of hunt kennels in the puppy farm legislation. Bearing these facts in mind, it is imperative that fieldsports enthusiasts should chose to place their votes where our activities are supported.

In the meantime, the Green Party members who were instrumental in pushing for the ban of the Ward Union Stag Hounds hunting are already organising to bombard Fine Gael candidates by email to pressure Fine Gael to renege on their commitment to repeal the legislation banning the Ward Union’s hunting. All fieldsports enthusiasts should write to their Fine Gael candidates congratulating them on a measured and reasonable response as would be expected in any tolerant society.

Knowing the record of each political party, it is up to all fieldsports enthusiasts to make up their own minds as to which party is deserving of their support.

This information leaflet is sponsored by the
National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC)

R.I.S.E.

Nothing in there on the handgun ban, on the ranges legislation, on any of the stuff worrying any of the target shooters, so it seems to be a hunters-only sort of deal (fair enough, it is the NARGC, they don't do target shooting).

Grizzly 45

And then even more to a paticular set of hunters.IE the horsey and hounds folk.Still, better to fight it in their backyard than on our doorstep.

Sparks

Well, frankly, I don't see much wrong with a group fighting for their corner like that, so long as they don't do it by throwing other groups under the bus. The idea of all of us standing together has some fairly deep fundamental flaws in it. I just think that it's important to know who represents what interests, even if only to stop toes being stepped on through error.