would you vote for FF/GREENS?

newby.204

How could anybody in there right mind actually be thinking of voting for either a FF or GREEN party TD? I mean if a job is performance based, and surely being in government is, they would have been sacked a long time ago had we of been able to!!! I would actually like to hear from anybody who is seriously going to vote for FF/GP and why you think they could possibly do a better job this time round? Or is it a case of "better the devil you know"

Fouloleron

I won't as I am no fool

wyndham

One word- Potholes

Oasis_Dublin

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

newby.204

I would have to disagree I don't think the greens have any usefull policies, I think they live in a dreamworld as far as their policies are concerned I don't wish to see them re-elected.

mgmt

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

You like their carbon taxes?
You like the high cost of your ESB bill cause your subsidising wind power?
You like having to pay twice for can/van insurance?

femur61

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

No.

1) Carbon tax

2) Implemented law so my husband whose redundant van cannot bring one child to football because I am using the car to bring the other to swimming. Stuck in rural Ireland we have no neighbours so now we say to the children "no you can't go to your activity because the greens said we can't take you because I have to go in the opposite direction so daddy can't take you in the van".

3) Van is redundant because no work but still pay the tax in case work does come in because they stood by FF.

Cosmo K

And the Greens forced you, to buy a house in the middle of nowhere?

Chinasea

I will vote Greens - I am not a fair weather Green voter. You either believe in their policies or not.

Fair weather Green voters are of no use really as they follow trends (as was fashionable in the last election) as opposed to believing in the virtues of a Green Life style. Unfortunately but not surprisingly looking at the prevalent ‘me fein’ attitude in Ireland we shall never be Green.

Geezer1000

I will vote for whoever is furthest away from the greens. Shower of looneys with zero grasp on reality

femur61

Cosmo K wrote: »

And the Greens forced you, to buy a house in the middle of nowhere?

Sorry I can choose where I live, beside my family in the community I grew up in I don't my kids to play in the street. I have lived in New York, London, Dublin, I am sick of urban live and want some peace and quiet. When we moved there was no law dictating what we could drive.

Arnold Layne

Cosmo K wrote: »

And the Greens forced you, to buy a house in the middle of nowhere?

The Greens forced me to pay higher taxes through NAMA for the sake of a few Stags

NIMAN

A definite NO.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could vote for FF at present.

Pimlico

I have never voted FF, so I definitely won't be tempted to change my mind this time around.

I reckon that there is still a lot of people out there though that will swear blind that they won't be voting FF, yet come Election Day they actually will.

Tarobot

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

What else is a small party supposed to do? I don't see much difference between FF and FG. I have never voted for FF but then again I've never voted for FG either.

It's inevitable that a smaller party will have to go into coalition with a larger one. In 2007, FF was getting in one way or the other - either with Labour or the Greens. Labour went into discussions as well so whatever Gilmore says today, Labour was willing to enter into a coalition with FF in 2007.

femur61 wrote: »

Sorry I can choose where I live, beside my family in the community I grew up in I don't my kids to play in the street. I have lived in New York, London, Dublin, I am sick of urban live and want some peace and quiet. When we moved there was no law dictating what we could drive.

Which Green Party policy dictates what you can drive?

UrbanSea

Anyone but labour to be honest. I'd rather FF ahead of them. I'd like Fine Gael,if only it was lead by someone else.

That stupid rule on the vans really annoyed me femur,and I don't even drive one.

femur61

Tarobot wrote: »

Which Green Party policy dictates what you can drive?

Read my first post.

johngalway

No, not ever for either.

Tarobot

femur61 wrote: »

Read my first post.

That policy already existed. The Dept of Environment merely issued a circular to all local authorities on the issue. Even Conor Faughnan of the AA apologised for misinterpreting the situation:

Newspaper stories this morning (24th August) implied that motor tax rules for commercial vehicles would be changed and that drivers of commercial vehicles would face ‘fines or even imprisonment’ if they used their vehicles for non-commercial, domestic or pleasure purposes. This presented the prospect that a plumber or carpenter could be fined for driving his van to mass on a Sunday, a prospect that the AA denounced as unfair and unenforceable.

The AA has received clarification from the Department of the Environment subsequently which makes it clear that there is no change to existing regulations.

http://blog.aaireland.ie/?p=347

The original regulation was introduced in 1993 under Michael Smith as Minister for the Environment (I might add during the 27th Dail when FF and Labour were in government together):

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/si/0385.html

bamboozle

so to rephrase the question, would i vote for the idiots at the helm of the sinking ship for the last number of years?

NO

let the teacher's get back teaching and lets have a government with qualified professionals, imagine having economists, barristers, doctors, accountants etc in our front bench....rather than 6 out of 15 who were teachers in the last govt.

Judgement Day

johngalway wrote: »

No, not ever for either.

There's a surprise then - in relation to the Greens.

windsurfer99ie

Pimlico wrote: »

I have never voted FF, so I definitely won't be tempted to change my mind this time around.

I reckon that there is still a lot of people out there though that will swear blind that they won't be voting FF, yet come Election Day they actually will.

Only the naive believe that FG / Labour or whoever will make any real difference. All the major parties supported joining the euro, and that is where we went wrong. We got cheap money when we needed to raise interest rates. Once the crunch started, we needed to devalue our currency to protect jobs, but of course we couldn't.

All the opposition has had to these last few years is oppose, and they have failed to convince me (a floating voter) that they have any good ideas for fixing this mess. The talk of renegotiating in Brussels is nonsense - an incoming government will have very little room to manoeuvre. FG and Labour are poles apart and if they form a government, we will end up with a "compromise" that bears little relation to what those two parties are saying at the moment.

FF have undoubtedly made mistakes, but if they had allowed Anglo to collapse we'd all be blaming them for the fact that this then precipitated a crisis in European banking with the result that we were unable to borrow money anywhere and were viewed as pariahs by the international community.

Some people are naive enough to believe that a change of government will make a difference - but many more just want to punish FF and that is understandable.

johngalway

Judgement Day wrote: »

There's a surprise then - in relation to the Greens.

Needs better bait.

newby.204

of the people who are supporting the greens, how many of you dont live in an urban centre? And yes it really does matter

Macha

newby.204 wrote: »

of the people who are supporting the greens, how many of you dont live in an urban centre? And yes it really does matter

Why?

newby.204

for the most part the "greens" are from urban centres, where it is very easy to tout cycle to work schemes and public transport as the way forward, getting rid of the awful car..... the reality is public transport in this country is a shambles from the bus to rail services if the greens really wanted to implement long lasting green policies they would see to it that such services were in place before ramming such eco friendly ideology down the publics throat, maybe then green policies would be better received!!!

tfitzgerald

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

I am the exact opposite of this I thing the greens are raving nutcases and I would give fianna fail a vote

newby.204

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I am the exact opposite of this I thing the greens are raving nutcases and I would give fianna fail a vote

imo i think no candidate from either party deserves anyone vote, they did what they did, its time for political accountability in this country, its been a long time coming, if they dont have the common decency to sink away to the shadows where they belong we should make it a cert with our votes

Worztron

In the past I always voted for the Greens. Not now though. They threw away most of their principals for a bit of power. They should have pulled out of government over 2 years ago. Shame on them for allowing FF to remain in power for so long. :mad:

femur61

I am curious do majority of Green supporters live in an urban area or rural Ireland?

Liam Byrne

Cosmo K wrote: »

And the Greens forced you, to buy a house in the middle of nowhere?

Loving the uppity phrasing!

Care to define "middle of nowhere" ?

Judgement Day

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Loving the uppity phrasing!

Care to define "middle of nowhere" ?

County Leitrim?

henryporter

femur61 wrote: »

I am curious do majority of Green supporters live in an urban area or rural Ireland?

Poll?

I live in the country in a house that is 150 years old - was also reared in the countryside in a house that is about 100 years old: Both houses were built for people who worked on the land surrounding them. Over the past 20 years FF policy allowed people who had no direct ties to the countryside to build every and anywhere they liked, making the Irish rural landscape one of the poorest in the world as well as undermining the stability of urban development. One of the posters on here is moaning about having no neighbours and having to drive the kids to school, well I'm sorry and I'm sick and tired of people like you who blame someone else for their predicament. The Greens certainly didn't force you to live in the countryside, in fact they are the only party who have battled to enforce a clear policy concerning who should live in the countryside - John Gormley intervened in 3 County Development Plans to stop the muppet FG and FF majority led County Councils from permitting more people to live in rural areas without any direct link or contribution to the land.

What saddens me more is the short memories people seem to have with regard to who got this country into the mess we're in and that you're all going to have a knee jerk reaction to the incumbents as opposed to analysing what exactly happened. In truth successive FF led coalitions between 1997 and 2007 have absolutely destroyed this Country's social and economic fabric. When the Greens joined FF (and don't forget a few independents) we were already collapsing, yet people blame them for the collapse. It was PD directed policy as well as ignorant corrupt Finance Ministers ranging from Bertie Ahern, to Charlie McCreevy and Brian Cowen whose inability to ensure proper banking regulation as well as allowing the entire economy to develop on a building bubble while increasing public expenditure to out of control levels that created our downfall.

The Greens were and are political minnows. They knew that the only way to ever get some changes implemented they would have to make a deal with the devil and even as they made that deal it was prophesied that they would suffer a drubbing at the next election. No matter what they did it has been spun as a disaster or political naivety For me they still have an integrity that none of the others possess and I'm glad there is a Green candidate in my constituency. Personally I don't see any difference between FF, FG and Labour, in fact the smugness being portrayed by both FG and Labour in knowing that their victory is certain is sickening - they actually don't have to do anything or say anything and they will be running this country in a months time with the greatest disclaimer anyone could have; that they can't do anything to fix Ireland because "FF and the Greens made such a balls of it"

NSNO

I will vote Green.


I live in Portmarnock in North Dublin which is an area where environmental issues are very important locally to the local economy. The Green Party does tremendous work in the Fingal area working for our local environment and the protection of the North Dublin green belt is a major issue for residents.


I will vote with the aim of a FG led FG/Lab coalition after that.

Capt'n Midnight

mgmt wrote: »

You like their carbon taxes?
You like the high cost of your ESB bill cause your subsidising wind power?
You like having to pay twice for can/van insurance?

If it hadn't been a carbon tax it would have been excise duty. And if it hadn't been for the recession we would probably have had to pay the Koyoto fine

ESB price rise was done in a failed attempt to get foreign competition into the market for "competition"

insurance has been dealt with , but a lot of companies have had rules about only using their vehicles to travel to /from home when not on company business. Also you can top up domestic insurance with commerical (this is something you should
do if you are claiming expenses for mileage on your own car BTW)

click_here!!!

I checked who the candidates in my constituency were, and there are no Green ones. Perhaps I should run for them... LOL.

We need to have a serious debate in Ireland about long-term issues like the environment, planning, water supply and transport. The fact is that the Greens never forced anyone onto a bike. I'd like to remind you also that politicians from all parties – like Enda Kenny – have been known to like cycling. People who write off the Greens as a shower of hippies don't do anything for anyone. The people who love that type of hyperbole are all middle-aged (perhaps 40-50 years old).

Not that there's anything wrong with being middle-aged, of course. But some one who is 45 today could live in my estimation on average another 30 years (until approx age 75), while someone my age (18) could live until they're 90 (for another 72 years), due to higher life expectancies. That means that on average the young person today will live for about 40 years after the middle-aged person. The Greens seem to be the only party that cares about those extra 40 years.

Personally I don't see any difference between FF, FG and Labour, in fact the smugness being portrayed by both FG and Labour in knowing that their victory is certain is sickening - they actually don;t have to do anything or say anything and they will be running this country in a months time with the greatest disclaimer anyone could have; that they can't do anything to fix Ireland because FF and the Greens made such a balls of it

--agreed.

Seth Brundle

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I would give the Greens a vote. I think they have some good policies and I think it's a shame that they finally partook in a government with a partner as horrific as FF.

Their allowed themselves to implement policies regardless of the effect on onthers (e.g. why did they support NAMA again?). They misled the public prior to the last election and sold whatever soul they had then by entering a marriage with the devil.

femur61 wrote: »

Sorry I can choose where I live, beside my family in the community I grew up in I don't my kids to play in the street. I have lived in New York, London, Dublin, I am sick of urban live and want some peace and quiet. When we moved there was no law dictating what we could drive.

Whilst the law on using commercial vehicles has been present for a long time, the fact that Gormless opened his mouth about it, you blame him for implementing it? You presumably knew the score when buying the commercial (if not then maybe reconsider being in business!).
Do you think people should be allowed avoid certain taxes because they live in a quite non urban area? If not then pay your VRT if you want to use thevan for family use!

hsi

newby.204 wrote: »

I would have to disagree I don't think the greens have any usefull policies, I think they live in a dreamworld as far as their policies are concerned I don't wish to see them re-elected.

Greens have nice policies, problem is I live in May... So what have the given me in their time in goverment... more tax on petrol making my commute to work more expensive. There is feck all public transport in the west.

So I suppose the metrosexual Dubs will go for the greens. but west of the shannon... they mean nothing.

Judgement Day

hsi wrote: »

Greens have nice policies, problem is I live in May... So what have the given me in their time in goverment... more tax on petrol making my commute to work more expensive. There is feck all public transport in the west.

So I suppose the metrosexual Dubs will go for the greens. but west of the shannon... they mean nothing.

I thought that Galway was west of the Shannon?

http://www.niallobrolchain.ie/main/about-niall/

Tarobot

kbannon wrote: »

Their allowed themselves to implement policies regardless of the effect on onthers (e.g. why did they support NAMA again?). They misled the public prior to the last election and sold whatever soul they had then by entering a marriage with the devil.

The fact that it was never party policy to rule out any coalition has been rehashed over and over again. And the results of 2007 meant it was going to be FF/Labour or FF/Green.

]It is no surprise that Irish politics is dominated by monoliths like FF & FG when smaller coalition partners are always demonized. What are they supposed to do? Wait another 26 years until they have enough seats to be in power? I shudder at the kind of populist, loony mess a party would have to be in order for that to happen.

hsi wrote: »

Greens have nice policies, problem is I live in May... So what have the given me in their time in goverment... more tax on petrol making my commute to work more expensive. There is feck all public transport in the west.

So I suppose the metrosexual Dubs will go for the greens. but west of the shannon... they mean nothing.

Nice sideswipe at the Civil Partnership Bill.

Oil prices have gone up 150% since 2009. But you're worried about the 2% of the petrol price that is the carbon tax? And why shouldn't you pay for the carbon you emit?

oppenheimer1

newby.204 wrote: »

for the most part the "greens" are from urban centres, where it is very easy to tout cycle to work schemes and public transport as the way forward, getting rid of the awful car..... the reality is public transport in this country is a shambles from the bus to rail services if the greens really wanted to implement long lasting green policies they would see to it that such services were in place before ramming such eco friendly ideology down the publics throat, maybe then green policies would be better received!!!

Its quite logical that the Greens are from urban centres as its far easier to be green in an urban environment. One off housing has destroyed our countryside, where parts of Donegal now look like strung out housing estates. People who don't need to live in the country shouldn't live in the country. Their choice degrades services for all, forcing the rest of us to pay more for poorer quality services.

By right people who do not need to live in the countryside should pay additional taxes that in order that they self fund the costs associated with living there. They should pay more road tax, pay more for their ESB and telephone, pay to get their post if not living within a certain radius of a major urban area and more for their water if on a mains.

People will find that the costs of living in the countryside will become unsustainable as the price of oil rises.

oppenheimer1

hsi wrote: »

Greens have nice policies, problem is I live in May... So what have the given me in their time in goverment... more tax on petrol making my commute to work more expensive. There is feck all public transport in the west.

So I suppose the metrosexual Dubs will go for the greens. but west of the shannon... they mean nothing.

We could have great public transport systems if we could develop the "critical mass" in urban areas. People choosing to live in the back arse of nowhere and depend on their car reduces the countrys ability to attain that critical mass

Liam Byrne

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They should pay more road tax, pay more for their ESB and telephone, pay to get their post if not living within a certain radius of a major urban area and more for their water if on a mains.

In ways we do (although when I say "we" I am closer to a city centre than the sprawling suburbia that has houses piled on top of each other and that requires a car to get to the bus stop).

We pay FAR more in fuel tax (which is the appropriate tax in terms of charging those who use, rather than paying ridiculous taxes for the "privilege" of simply "having" a car).

We pay for phone and ESB installations.

We pay for our own group water schemes (at least until the council takes them over and gets our infrastructure for free).

johngalway

Judgement Day wrote: »

I thought that Galway was west of the Shannon?

http://www.niallobrolchain.ie/main/about-niall/

About Niall...

Niall failed to get elected to Dail Eireann so his friends appointed him to the senate. Soon Niall will not be elected again, yet he will have no friends this time. A hat will be passed around NUIG on..........

:pac:

DubTony

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

People who don't need to live in the country shouldn't live in the country. Their choice degrades services for all, forcing the rest of us to pay more for poorer quality services.

By right people who do not need to live in the countryside should pay additional taxes that in order that they self fund the costs associated with living there. They should pay more road tax, pay more for their ESB and telephone, pay to get their post if not living within a certain radius of a major urban area and more for their water if on a mains.
.

We could have great public transport systems if we could develop the "critical mass" in urban areas. People choosing to live in the back arse of nowhere and depend on their car reduces the countrys ability to attain that critical mass

Jesus :rolleyes:

Mr.Micro

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Its quite logical that the Greens are from urban centres as its far easier to be green in an urban environment. One off housing has destroyed our countryside, where parts of Donegal now look like strung out housing estates. People who don't need to live in the country shouldn't live in the country. Their choice degrades services for all, forcing the rest of us to pay more for poorer quality services.

By right people who do not need to live in the countryside should pay additional taxes that in order that they self fund the costs associated with living there. They should pay more road tax, pay more for their ESB and telephone, pay to get their post if not living within a certain radius of a major urban area and more for their water if on a mains.

People will find that the costs of living in the countryside will become unsustainable as the price of oil rises.

So by the same logic urban dwellers should pay massively for food that they do not grow or raise? I thought we lived in a democracy....choices and all that? Struth!

oppenheimer1

Mr.Micro wrote: »

So by the same logic urban dwellers should pay massively for food that they do not grow or raise? I thought we lived in a democracy....choices and all that? Struth!

I think you missed the point entirely, which was that urban dwellers subsidise the lifestyle of those that live in the country. Your analogy with food is an incorrect one as the market for food is is urban communities mainly. In fact all food is subsidised by the urban areas (where one finds economic activity) through CAP subsidies.

Those who live close to the source of the food should get it for less as it has a reduced transportation cost. They should pay more for things that have to be brought to them though, like infrastructure.

We do live in a democracy but democracy has nothing to do with not paying for the things you need/use. You're getting the two issues confused.

Mr.Micro

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I think you missed the point entirely, which was that urban dwellers subsidise the lifestyle of those that live in the country. Your analogy with food is an incorrect one as the market for food is is urban communities mainly. In fact all food is subsidised by the urban areas (where one finds economic activity) through CAP subsidies.

Those who live close to the source of the food should get it for less as it has a reduced transportation cost. They should pay more for things that have to be brought to them though, like infrastructure.

We do live in a democracy but democracy has nothing to do with not paying for the things you need/use. You're getting the two issues confused.

My point is the same, without the country side dwellers there is no food. For businesses to operate successfully they need good infrastructure to get such food to their markets, which includes electricity. I cannot see the point in making such things more expensive for rural dwellers who in turn will pass on the increased costs to the urban dwellers.

oppenheimer1

Mr.Micro wrote: »

My point is the same, without the country side dwellers there is no food. For businesses to operate successfully they need good infrastructure to get such food to their markets, which includes electricity. I cannot see the point in making such things more expensive for rural dwellers who in turn will pass on the increased costs to the urban dwellers.

Wrong. Without farmers there is no food. How many people that live in the countryside in Ireland are farmers? According to Teagasc there are 130,000 farmers in Ireland...

Mr.Micro

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Wrong. Without farmers there is no food. How many people that live in the countryside in Ireland are farmers? According to Teagasc there are 130,000 farmers in Ireland...

You just cannot penalise people for wanting to live in the countryside....its undemocratic. Ireland is divided enough without creating more camps.

Tarobot

There is the argument that the full range of services provided by biodiversity is not fully factored into the current economic system.

So for example, if a person owns a bog that acts as a carbon sink and flood defence for the local area, there is a value in that bog over and above the simple market value of cutting it up and selling it as fuel. I imagine it could be a policy to properly compensate rural dwellers who are effectively the conservators of these important ecosystems for the rest of society.

Regardless, the idea that the Green Party doesn't care about rural dwellers is quite unfair.