HELP! Casing for fuse within fuseboard broken

inabina

Hi all, please see attached pick of my fuseboard with broken fuse casing(40 yr old house). one of fuses was making some noise and the power that the fuse was controlling was flickering. I removed the fuse and found the end of fuse burnt and the casing within the fuse box broken. In the picture you can see just one bits of the casing left that is loose inside.

Do i need to get a new fuse board? any cheaper alternatives?

smokiebeverage

Its hard to tell from the photo, but is the bit broken off the fuse or the fuse socket? looks like the fuse itself but I cant really tell.

inabina

Hi, the bit broken off sitting in there is a bit of the casing itself that was a circular piece sitting inside the fusebox. The fuse itself is still in one piece.

The casing is just a circular piece surrounding the centre contact that you can see in the photo....its the bit that the top of the fuse is supported by as it touches the contact.

I could risk trying to clean the contact (not sure how given that it is a fuseboard...is it live?) and screw the fuse back in as it appears that the fuse would sit well enough and touch the contact without the casing.

smokiebeverage

Right, since you've asked is it live, I'm thinking you shouldn't try this repair yourself! But the long and short of it, is to get the loose bit out first and leave the center contact alone but use a new fuse as god knows what the original one is like. But it is a very temp fix. You can still get the screw in receptors and just replace it as soon as possible. To be honest now would be the time to update to a new fuseboard, but you may find you need a complete rewire But with so many sparks out of work you should be able to get good value to change the board

inabina

inabina wrote: »

Hi all, please see attached pick of my fuseboard with broken fuse casing(40 yr old house). one of fuses was making some noise and the power that the fuse was controlling was flickering. I removed the fuse and found the end of fuse burnt and the casing within the fuse box broken. In the picture you can see just one bits of the casing left that is loose inside.

Do i need to get a new fuse board? any cheaper alternatives?

Judging by the picture, the fuse can be replaced (temporarily). Kill the main feed to the board and remove the remains of the old fuse with an insulated (can't be too careful) needle nose pliers. If unsure, get a competent person or even a sparks in. I would highly recommend you get the entire fuse board upgraded to the current system

smokiebeverage

smokiebeverage wrote: »

Right, since you've asked is it live, I'm thinking you shouldn't try this repair yourself! But the long and short of it, is to get the loose bit out first and leave the center contact alone but use a new fuse as god knows what the original one is like. But it is a very temp fix. You can still get the screw in receptors and just replace it as soon as possible. To be honest now would be the time to update to a new fuseboard, but you may find you need a complete rewire But with so many sparks out of work you should be able to get good value to change the board

+1 on the rewire.

inabina

shaaane wrote: »

Judging by the picture, the fuse can be replaced (temporarily). Kill the main feed to the board and remove the remains of the old fuse with an insulated (can't be too careful) needle nose pliers. If unsure, get a competent person or even a sparks in. I would highly recommend you get the entire fuse board upgraded to the current system

thanks for this, appreciate it, the remains in there is actually the remains of the socket that the fuse sits into...the other bits of the socket came out with the fuse when i took it out!

smokiebeverage

Ceramics tend to fail over time from the heat so this is most likely the first of many. If the screw in is still structurally sound you should be ok just make sure the the fuse makes good contact. Most importantly please be very careful, take shaanes advice and kill all the power first, thats really important. you can live without a few sockets in the house but you may not live if you power yourself up!

indie armada

the piece of ceramic in the dz slot looks like a part of a gauge ring. these are used to centre a certain type of fuse so it makes contact with the right part of the housing. the fact the gauge ring is in bits might be an indication that the previous fuse wasnt making propper contact resulting in the arcing and fizzing. if you undo one of the other fuses you might see the ceramic ring im talking about. if you just stick a fuse in there without a gauge ring its posible it might not make a propper connection.

ted1

for less than two hundred euro you'll get it replaced and be safe in the knowledge that you'll have a safer set up. But as mentioned it may transpire you need to do the lot.

brightspark

As a temporary measure get a electrician to fit a new guage ring, or even replace the fuseholder entirely (from the pic the centre of the old guage ring is badly burnt and if you just put in a new fuse it won't make a good contact, the wires feeding it may also have been damaged)

(those old guage rings are getting harder to find too, not all wholesalers have them anymore)


As soon as you can arrange it, get the complete board replaced! You will need to do it sometime, so it might as well be now.

indie armada

brightspark wrote: »

As a temporary measure get a electrician to fit a new guage ring, or even replace the fuseholder entirely (from the pic the centre of the old guage ring is badly burnt and if you just put in a new fuse it won't make a good contact, the wires feeding it may also have been damaged)

(those old guage rings are getting harder to find too, not all wholesalers have them anymore)


As soon as you can arrange it, get the complete board replaced! You will need to do it sometime, so it might as well be now.

i think the closest place to the op is eurosales in sandyford.......the gauge rings are still easy to get, just not that popular, the housing on the other hand might be a bit more difficult. prob best to get a sparks in as there are a few different sizes depending on the rating of the fuse and the type of carrier.

Bruthal

It is a piece of gauge ring alright. Gauge rings were to prevent too big a fuse from being used in the circuit, so a lighting circuit had a gauge ring that would not take a fuse bigger than 10 amps for example.

A new MCB board would be the best way forward, but it depends on the condition of the house wiring also, as if its the old rubber wiring not many sparks would just replace the board while leaving the old wiring.

A new fuse holder could be fitted there either if one can be got with a suitable guage ring.

Bruthal

indie armada wrote: »

the piece of ceramic in the dz slot looks like a part of a gauge ring. these are used to centre a certain type of fuse so it makes contact with the right part of the housing. the fact the gauge ring is in bits might be an indication that the previous fuse wasnt making propper contact resulting in the arcing and fizzing. if you undo one of the other fuses you might see the ceramic ring im talking about. if you just stick a fuse in there without a gauge ring its posible it might not make a propper connection.

It looks like the centre metal part of the gauge ring is still in place so the fuse will reach to make contact.

But as you point out, it looks like the fuse was loose in the holder and the contact part of the gauge ring is well burnt so it wont make a great contact now. This overheating probably caused the ceramic part to break away when the fuse was removed. For a new gauge ring to be fitted will require the back metal part to be screwed out of the holder.

The gauge rings were actually to prevent oversize fuses being put into the circuits the guage rings were in.

It may be possible for this circuit to be wired to a single 20A RCBO until the fuse board is replaced. I wouldn't condone it but have seen it in a few places (old buildings) where the original fuse board has been left alone apart from the socket circuits which have been put on a seperate RCBO in a unit next to the original DB afterwards.

Bruthal

shaaane wrote: »

It may be possible for this circuit to be wired to a single 20A RCBO until the fuse board is replaced. I wouldn't condone it but have seen it in a few places (old buildings) where the original fuse board has been left alone apart from the socket circuits which have been put on a seperate RCBO in a unit next to the original DB afterwards.

Well if its a lighting circuit a 10 amp MCB would be better than a 20 amp RCBO

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well if its a lighting circuit a 10 amp MCB would be better than a 20 amp RCBO

Looking at the picture the OP attached, it might be a socket circuit (hence the label)

Bruthal

shaaane wrote: »

Looking at the picture the OP attached, it might be a socket circuit (hence the label)

Yes but which fuse is that label for. Im just saying we dont know, so the best advice if advising fitting a breaker is 20 amp rcbo if it is sockets, or 10 amp MCB if lights,

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes but which fuse is that label for. Im just saying we dont know, so the best advice if advising fitting a breaker is 20 amp rcbo if it is sockets, or 10 amp MCB if lights,

100% agree robbie. I just assumed it was a socket circuit because of the label. It probably is a socket circuit, you'd rarely see a lighting fuse getting fried in a house! (from my experience anyway)

Bruthal

shaaane wrote: »

100% agree robbie. I just assumed it was a socket circuit because of the label. It probably is a socket circuit, you'd rarely see a lighting fuse getting fried in a house! (from my experience anyway)

True alright, but if they are arcing any will burn but obviously the higher load will burn more. The rcbo idea would be better than replacing the fuse unit in actual fact if it is the sockets.

inabina

thanks all, i am getting online quotes ranging from 100 to 400 for a new fuse board. one chap saying 65 eur for a new board and 100 eur for labor. realistic?

do ESB need to commisson the new fuse board?

DublinDilbert

inabina wrote: »

thanks all, i am getting online quotes ranging from 100 to 400 for a new fuse board. one chap saying 65 eur for a new board and 100 eur for labor. realistic?

do ESB need to commisson the new fuse board?

Yep the cost of the board would be about €65. The cost of the labour would depend on who is doing it. They guy offering to do it for €100 might just be as good as a guy offering to do it for €400, we've know way of knowing. I'd go with the person you feel is the most competent.

You are adding a higher level of protection with a new board, so you'll probably get the RCD tripping at first as one or two of "old" appliances are plugged in.

indie armada

inabina wrote: »

thanks all, i am getting online quotes ranging from 100 to 400 for a new fuse board. one chap saying 65 eur for a new board and 100 eur for labor. realistic?

do ESB need to commisson the new fuse board?

there is a good chance that this fuse board oes not have an earth to ground, if not then this will cost extra. so be prepaired to be told of a higher cost due to the labour of installing an earth rod. best to get a few quotes and get a fixed price regardless.

Bruthal

indie armada wrote: »

there is a good chance that this fuse board oes not have an earth to ground, if not then this will cost extra. so be prepaired to be told of a higher cost due to the labour of installing an earth rod. best to get a few quotes and get a fixed price regardless.

Yes and ask about the earth rod too, some sparks will just change the board and not look into any of that. The wiring in the house might not be great either.

eoghan.geraghty

Yes that is a broken gauge ring, it would be tricky to take out even with a gauge ring extraction tool (not too many of them about either).
As regards a new fuseboard, if the current fuseboard is as old as it looks then the tails would need to be replaced with 16mm tails and connected into the meter by the ESB, a cert is required for this.
As others have said, earthing arrangements would need to be checked and updated accordingly.
€165 for a replacement fuseboard is very cheap, unless this guy is a good friend of yours.
Expect €400 to cover a decent board, some remedial work and certification.

M cebee

also- there is a guide in the back of the rules for fuseboard replacement p.328


board to comply with 530.5 -that means it has to be dropped to 2.25m when replacing the board

mcbs and loop-impedances to comply with disconnection times (0.4s for final circuits up to /including 32amp)

tails to be 16sq minimum


main bonding and MPC to comply with rules

no mention of lighting cpc's or cable colours that i can see

afaik these are the highlights- i copied them from an old post

inabina

robbie7730 wrote: »

True alright, but if they are arcing any will burn but obviously the higher load will burn more. The rcbo idea would be better than replacing the fuse unit in actual fact if it is the sockets.

yes, it is the sockets. its every socket upstairs in the house running on this fuse. why would this be a better solution than a new fuseboard?

Bruthal

inabina wrote: »

yes, it is the sockets. its every socket upstairs in the house running on this fuse. why would this be a better solution than a new fuseboard?

What i was saying was that replacing the fuse unit with a 20 amp RCBO would be better than replacing the fuse unit itself. When i said fuse unit i meant the fuse holder, not the whole board.

Replacing the whole board is the best option. The wiring in the house would need to be checked too.

inabina

that chap who quoted 165 came out, looked at job, and still quoting 165 for new fuseboard. what do i need to ask for in terms of a cert of compliance when the job is done? he is a member of TEEU

meercat

http://reci.ie/
http://ecssa.ie/
get a local registered contractor out and ask for a quote

M cebee

inabina wrote: »

that chap who quoted 165 came out, looked at job, and still quoting 165 for new fuseboard. what do i need to ask for in terms of a cert of compliance when the job is done? he is a member of TEEU

the TEEU membership is just waffle i'd imagine