Should "uncontacted" tribes be left alone?

Wolfe Tone

An isolated tribe living in the Amazon rainforest on the Brazil-Peru border has been filmed for the first time.

Jose Carlos Meirelles, of Funai, said his government agency needs proof of the existence of "uncontacted" Indian communities in Brazil due to the threat posed by illegal logging and mining. They are known as "uncontacted" because they have only limited dealings with the outside world.

The BBC was allowed to film from 1km away using a stabilised zoom lens. More photographs of the tribe can be found here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12360013

I read this today and watched the accompanying video and it got me thinking, should these tribes be left alone? In all probability they have little in the way of medicine, have a bad standard of living, high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy etc etc.... and god knows what sort of mad shit they get up to.

Should they be exposed to the world and its wondrous technology and medicines or left as they are simply to serve as an interesting thing to look at from miles away?

Personally I think they should be gradually exposed and introduced to the 21st century and what it offers, good and bad. What says you?

mink_man

yep

NeedaNewName

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12360013

I read this today and watched the accompanying video and it got me thinking, should these tribes be left alone? In all probability they have little in the way of medicine, have a bad standard of living, high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy etc etc.... and god knows what sort of mad shit they get up to.

Should they be exposed to the world and its wondrous technology and medicines or left as they are simply to serve as an interesting thing to look at from miles away?

Personally I think they should be gradually exposed and introduced to the 21st century and what it offers, good and bad. What says you?


I will stick a poll up presently.

Depends really. What are their view on homosexuality? We might have to kill them all! :pac:

MagicMarker

It's an interesting question, part of me thinks yes, and part of me thinks no. Therefore my answer is maybe, maybe not.

Aodan83

Nah, leave em alone. Then every so often we can do something that would really **** with em. Like have a helicopter hover over the village or whatever you call it in the middle of the night and shine a spot light on them or something.

Grasshoppa

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

In all probability they have little in the way of medicine, have a bad standard of living, high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy etc etc.... and god knows what sort of mad shit they get up to.

Are you assuming all this?

IvySlayer

We have no right to interfere in their natual development.

Bog

There are probably a McDonald's and Starbucks being built already..

barbarians

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's an interesting question, part of me thinks yes, and part of me thinks no. Therefore my answer is maybe, maybe not.

Way to take a stand there lad. :rolleyes:


They should be left alone, what harm are they doing ?

Wolfe Tone

Grasshoppa wrote: »

Are you assuming all this?

I looked at the video and it shows them living in huts and such, hardly evidence of them having top class hospitals and the capability to inoculate themselves against diseases. They are totally isolated, I don't think it is too much of a leap to say they don't have the benefits of modern medicine and technology to improve and enhance their lives.

Grasshoppa

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I looked at the video and it shows them living in huts and such, hardly evidence of them having top class hospitals and the capability to inoculate themselves against diseases. They are totally isolated, I don't think it is too much of a leap to say they don't have the benefits of modern medicine and technology to improve and enhance their lives.

Like i-pods and stuff?

They're perfectly happy as they are, for all you know.

Pauleta

They should take them out of the jungle and dump them in the middle of a huge city. It would make fantastic TV

easyeason3

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12360013

I read this today and watched the accompanying video and it got me thinking, should these tribes be left alone? In all probability they have little in the way of medicine, have a bad standard of living, high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy etc etc.... and god knows what sort of mad shit they get up to.

Should they be exposed to the world and its wondrous technology and medicines or left as they are simply to serve as an interesting thing to look at from miles away?

Personally I think they should be gradually exposed and introduced to the 21st century and what it offers, good and bad. What says you?

How about everyone leaves them alone. They probably have a better standard of health than any of us without 'medicine'.
The standard of living they have is probably grand for them because they are not used to anything else so have nothing to compare it to.

Bring them into our 21st century world & the result could be wiping them out completely instead of enhancing their lives.


EDIT: I voted no when I should have voted yes

IvySlayer

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I looked at the video and it shows them living in huts and such, hardly evidence of them having top class hospitals and the capability to inoculate themselves against diseases. They are totally isolated, I don't think it is too much of a leap to say they don't have the benefits of modern medicine and technology to improve and enhance their lives.

'improve and enhance'

We're not Gods. They must be allowed to survive and evolve in their own way.

Diseases? They have immune systems which have allowed them to survive for generations.

galwayrush

If they have oil and precious metals, we could invade them and make their area a colony on Ireland.

RolandIRL

Leave them alone. If they've survived this long by themselves, they don't need the rest of the world coming in and barging into their lives, probably worsening it as they wouldn't be able to integrate properly into society

Thomas828

They must be aware of what's going on in the immediate vicinity and they don't like what they see. And maybe they choose to remain isolated. Just leave them alone.

Latchy

I've being asking them for years to leave my tribe alone but will they ta fook

I curse the day Baloo subscribed to Jungle.com ......B'stad

LighterGuy

Should they be left alone?

Yes.

If a tribe is isolated from the rest of the modern world its because they have chosen to.

Wolfe Tone

IvySlayer wrote: »

'improve and enhance'

We're not Gods. They must be allowed to survive and evolve in their own way.

Diseases? They have immune systems which have allowed them to survive for generations.

But they haven't "evolved" for some reason. Does modern tech not improve and enhance your life? Should we not share what we have with them?

Do you not think they could benefit from modern medicine?

Cianos

They've obviously managed well up until now, I don't see why they should be interfered witht. I may be wrong but aren't diseases generally brought in by outsiders? It's common to see very old looking tribesmen still hunting etc while 'ol ones here can barely get on to the bus. I don't think we'd improve much for them and in trying to do so we'd destroy their entire world view.

Latchy

galwayrush wrote: »

If they have oil and precious metals, we could invade them and make their area a colony on Ireland.

And exploit them ? Who do you think we are , the British ?

Mike 1972

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I read this today and watched the accompanying video and it got me thinking, should these tribes be left alone? In all probability they have little in the way of medicine, have a bad standard of living, high infant mortality rate, low life expectancy etc etc.... and god knows what sort of mad shit they get up to.

It really depends

My inclination would be yes but If (as is nearly always the case) the country in question is horribly underdeveloped then their standard of living, infant mortality rate and life expectancy is probably going to be pretty terrible either way.

IvySlayer

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

But they haven't "evolved" for some reason. Does modern tech not improve and enhance your life? Should we not share what we have with them?

Do you not think they could benefit from modern medicine?

This tribe has survived on its own without technology or medicine. You may enhance their lives, but you'll be destroying their way of life, their culture.

This is a tribe with spears and arrows, do you think approaching them with a needle is beneficial? What right does someone have to interupt nature? Should we vaccinate every single animal on the planet? Or do we let nature take its course?

Mike 1972

IvySlayer wrote: »

What right does someone have to interupt nature?

Asks a guy with a computer ?

Badgermonkey

Bruce Parry's on his way, it's inevitable.

Let's hope they're spared Charlie Bird though, his Amazon trek was laughable.

pawrick

a word from Star Trek

The Prime Directive


"As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation"


On a more serious note - going there to introduce our superior medicine/tech would probably cause more harm than good, we'll be exposing them to a wider variety of diseases to which they have no immunity and they may become reliant on our medicine and loose their local knowledge of what plants are beneficial. What then will happen when the media attention dies down? Certainly there are places already in South America which have access to hospitals and the like but the ordinary people there can't afford the services provided and so have the worst of both worlds.

KeithAFC

They probably have a better standard way of living than us. Those people have more wisdom than us in the western world will ever have. They are happy to live the way they live. Leave them alone.

foxinsox

if they are uncontacted

we don't know they are there

they don't know we are here

so therefore are we here

where are we

who are we

where was i





* back to kitchen *

Tonyandthewhale

Leave them be. It's almost impossible to directly contact tribes such as these without infecting them with things like the common cold and the flu which they have no natural defences for. Also, these uncontacted tribes generally have contact with other (contacted) tribes and may even have had limited contact with loggers and farmers and such in the past. These people know what's out there, or at least have an idea yet they've chosen not to engage with it, we should respect that choice.

Realistically speaking, what are we going to offer them? What does 'contact' entail? You can talk all you want about modern technology and medicine but no one's going to donate a plasma tv to everyone in the village or build a hospital in the middle of the jungle for them. Judging from past experiences with previously uncontacted tribes contact means epidemic, relocation, poverty and marginalisation. Are the native Americans in the USA or Canada better off than they were? And that's in what are supposed to be two ofhe richest and most developed countries in the world.

IvySlayer

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Asks a guy with a computer ?

And that matters how? It's part of my culture.

Captain Picard:

"The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy... and a very correct one. History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous."

"...all of this is just philosophy. Sarjenka is not a subject for philosophical debate, she is a person."
"He's got a point. The Prime Directive was designed to protect, not destroy."
"So Doctor, you draw the line at the death of millions."
"Yes!"
"Same situation if it's an epidemic rather than a geological catastrophe?"
"Absolutely!"
"How about a war? A generations-long conflict that is killing millions. Do we interfere? Now we're less secure in our moral certitude. And what if it's not death? What if it's an oppressive government which is enslaving millions? You see, the Prime Directive has many different functions, not the least of which is to protect us. It keeps us from allowing our emotions to overrule our judgment."

Mike 1972

IvySlayer wrote: »

And that matters how? It's part of my culture.

WTF ?

IvySlayer

Mike 1972 wrote: »

WTF ?

So what of I'm on a computer? Man invented computers. Doesn't mean I should give a laptop to this tribe who'll probably have a massive fight over it.

Tenzing

leave them alone, they know where to find us if they want to be in contact.

Badgermonkey

KeithAFC wrote: »

They probably have a better standard way of living than us. Those people have more wisdom than us in the western world will ever have. They are happy to live the way they live. Leave them alone.

Why have you voted in the Boards election poll Keith?

Unless a united Ireland slipped under my radar.

thetonynator

I voted no by accident, read the question wrong.

Xivilai

Lets invade their land, and civilise those savages!

nah, stay well away from them. Why should we interfere with their lives.

Mike 1972

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Why have you voted in the Boards election poll Keith?.

Its only a poll not an actual election.

Are you claiming to have never ventured an opinion on who youd like to see win/loose an election outside the Republic of Ireland ?

IvySlayer wrote: »

Man invented computers.

I was under the impression that (give or take) 50 percent of the members of such tribes were also Men ?

Tenzing

why are we so arrogant to say our way of life is better than theirs? with all the medicine and technology we get we are still fat miserable ****s. I wouldnt impose that on them. they have more to lose than we to gain by contact.

Merch

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

But they haven't "evolved" for some reason. Does modern tech not improve and enhance your life? Should we not share what we have with them?

Do you not think they could benefit from modern medicine?

Good god, do you really believe all that?

Leave them be

Mike 1972

While Id probably come down in favour of leaving them be given that a third world shantytown hellhole is the most probable alternative some of the the arguments advanced in favour of not exposing them to the outside world are pretty laughable.

All this stuff about "Culture" "Way of life" "Aincent Wisdom" etc is at best pure romantic horseshyte and at worst is positively dangerous.

Its part of some peoples way of life to mutilate young girls sex organs. Its part of other peoples culture to stone rape victims to death for adultery. other peoples cultures are not always the sacred cow that some make it out to be.

Tenzing wrote: »

why are we so arrogant to say our way of life is better than theirs? with all the medicine and technology we get we are still fat miserable ****s. I wouldnt impose that on them.

Why dont you abandon your ****ty way of life right now move to the Amazon and join a tribe If thats how you feel ?

Or are you one of those fake Luddites, who only claim to hate modern technology but can't go three days without Sky ?

Tenzing

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why dont you abandon your ****ty way of life right now move to the Amazon and join a tribe If thats how you feel ?

Or are you one of those fake Luddites, who only claim to hate modern technology but can't go three days without Sky ?

This is the life i am accustomed to. no tribe will accept me now as i am anyway.

Latchy

From what I gather ,this tribe in particular will die of some form of disease or other and that's before any outsiders (us) have any physical contact with them so the 'westerners bringing their diseases with them ' idea is void .

The best thing that could be done is leave them alone to their own devices and way of life , at least until such time as asked by request to do otherwise .

Tayla

I think they should be left alone, it's fascinating to think about how much or how little they know but it's not up to us to disturb their way of life.


I recently watched a program on 4od about a tribe from Tanna who were convinced Prince Phillip was their messiah!

RichieC

send them bibles full of small pox and steal their forest!

keaves

Who says these people are sick????
I envy the simplicity (if its what i imagine it would be like; close families, hunting, gathering building, cooking, sex, eating, etc) leave em to it!!

Latchy

Tayla wrote: »

I

I recently watched a program on 4od about a tribe from Tanna who were convinced Prince Phillip was their messiah!

What ...you mean he isin't ?

:eek:

/ sends out drum sounds across the jungle...

Badgermonkey

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are you claiming to have never ventured an opinion on who youd like to see win/loose an election outside the Republic of Ireland ?

Opinion sure, though as Keith rightfully expresses his Northern/Ulster Scots heritage, I just found it odd he'd bother tbh.

Plus it would seem the organisers of the poll would prefer only those entitled to vote to do so.

http://www.boards.ie/vote/how-it-works.php

Can your system be gamed?

In theory yes, the system could be gamed. For example:
people could register numerous Boards.ie accounts and vote repeatedly
people could vote who aren't actually registered to vote in the actual election
people who are not resident in the state, or are not eligible to vote, could vote
We'll do our best to monitor the site, identify offenders and prevent them from gaming the system.

brianthebard

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I looked at the video and it shows them living in huts and such, hardly evidence of them having top class hospitals and the capability to inoculate themselves against diseases. They are totally isolated, I don't think it is too much of a leap to say they don't have the benefits of modern medicine and technology to improve and enhance their lives.

This shouldn't even be a question if people had the slightest understanding of what they were talking about. Once people from the outside world meet these tribes, the tribes will die out from diseases they have no immunity to. Its ****ing retarded to try and force them into the modern era for no reason other than personal gratification considering they have lived like this for millennia and obviously have no interest in 'modernizing' or they would already have started to make such progress on their own. All you are doing by contacting them is ensuring they will die, and modern medicine and technology isn't going to stop that.

Killer Pigeon

The BBC was allowed to film from 1km away using a stabilised zoom lens.

Lol, it's like they're being treated like animals on a safari expedition. You'd nearly expected David Attenborough to start narrating a documentary about their lives - "Here in the deep dark jungles of the Amazon lives an ancient hidden herd of homo sapiens ...", etc..

Mike 1972

Badgermonkey wrote: »

as Keith rightfully expresses his Northern/Ulster Scots heritage, I just found it odd he'd bother tbh.

Are there any other ethnic groups who would surprise you by taking an interest in events outside of their own country apart from Ulster Scots ?

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Plus it would seem the organisers of the poll would prefer only those entitled to vote to do so..

Given that Im recieving "notices" about the poll despite my location (as stated) being outside the state it doesnt seem to be policed that rigorously ?