RE: Any Arch. Tech. Jobs out there?

bravojohnny

Hi All,

Not sure if this is the correct place for this thread (apoloigies Admin. if not), anyway I was wondering is there any jobs out there for Arch. Tech.s?

I have over 5yrs experince working for a big company on big jobs which included Planning, tender, fire cert & construction drawings, I have also attended numerous site meetings & on site snags.

I have been looking for a job in this area for over a year now & unfortunatley I think I'm going to have to emigrate to Austrailia & join up with a few frinds out there.

Any help much appreciated!

Poor Uncle Tom

I think most offices have downsized by now and most are just plodding along as it is.

We have downsized and what is left of the staff here are busy enough but I can't see us expanding again in the near future. If and when we do start to grow again we will give first preference to the people we had before this mess, it's only fair, they may not want to come back, or they may have found other work beforehand, but we will offer, it's the least we can do.

Mellor

bravojohnny wrote: »

I think I'm going to have to emigrate to Austrailia & join up with a few frinds out there.

I fail to see what the problem is

Kobayashi2010

I've given up on architectural technology jobs, before I was let go I was being paid less for my professional job than I am now for a job that requires no qualifications whatsoever. It's total bullsh*t.

I'm now doing masters in Project Management so in sept I'll be back to the same situation of looking for a job again, but hopefully one that is paid fairly, in line with qualifications.

Stephen

beyondpassive

The best advice seems to be to retrain as Kobayashi is doing. Our economy will plod along at not much above this speed indefinitely, unfortunately, its not just Ireland, in an effort to keep the growth illusion going the whole european and American banking system has been repackaging and selling large mortgages to people who could never pay for them. So its not just Irish banks that are insolvent. We can't just emigrate to boom economies and sit things out for a few years, Australia, Brazil and Canada are bucking the worldwide recession based on their mineral resources, but for how long. Emigrating used to be an education, you returned with new international best practice skills, but as each country uses different interpretations of sustainability and our networks are becoming smaller and tighter, its very hard to get back into the loop for returning emigrants.

Unless they have a lot of specialist experience or a practice in one off housing, Technicians have become obsolete to a degree, our colleges are producing too many especially when you consider how many architects are also being produced, who have excellent CAD and technical skills. However Architectural technology is now only a foundation for specialising in a Masters in niche areas, and this five and a half year education matches or exceeds the broadness of an architectural education.

As we move towards a creative class economy, where the range of job scales becomes polarised into subsistence jobs and professional jobs, we need to choose where we want to be. There are sweat shops here in Dublin where technicians are paid close to the minimal wage for international work.There are also former technicians who have specialised in Niche areas and are in high demand as Consultants at enviable rates. I know some former technician Glazing Specialists and Project managers who are doing well.

So push yourself up the value chain, or else sit waiting for the technician version of a 'flippin burgers' type job to come up.

bravojohnny

The gods must have heard me!
I have been offered contract work & I have to meet up with my proposed new employer to discuss the details.

Anyone have any idea of what the hourly rates are for contracr work (tender drawings etc)?

Mellor

It really depends.
He's probably going to try and pay you the min you are willing to work for.
You're going to have to get the most you can.

But it's a employers market

At a very rough estimate, going by what I imagine a decent salary would be for youg person if they managed to secure a job.
A year is roughly 2000 hours. 30k a yr = 15euro/hour, 40k = 20euro/hr
Contract will be without benefits, but will should be without tax. You might get a bit on top of this if hours are awkward, or just to make up for lack of sick days, holiday days. but I imagine that's the range.

bravojohnny

Hi Guys,

I have been offered €10.00 an hour after tax, to be honest I am not to happy with that?...

Opinons?

sydthebeat

bravojohnny wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I have been offered €10.00 an hour after tax, to be honest I am not to happy with that?...

Opinons?

only you can answer that... if your fresh out of college with no committments or ties, it may be ok..

if youve kids, mortgage etc, consider it against what youd be loosing out on from a social welfare aspect. thats the reality of it. Whats the length of contract?

bravojohnny

I have 5 years experience working in a large office.

I was classified as an intermediate Arch. Tech., I have done planning / Fire certs / tender & construction work on multi millon euro projects I have been on site inspecting, have done snag lists etc.

So I do think I have plenty to offer & at €10.00 an hour I think Im selling myself short.

The contract is for 4months to start with.

Mellor

10 euro an hour is bad imo. But the reality is, these are bad times.
Being gainfully employed has more value than simply the wages. By staying in active work, you'll be far employable in future.

You are also unlikely to get another job in those 4 months. If they are all full weeks, its prob worth 6-7k, not to be sniffed at these days.

bravojohnny

Thanks for the comments Mellor,

I am working full time as it is, as a CAD technician. It was all I could get when I lost my job 2years ago.

So I would be doing the contract work in the evenings & at the weekends, for two main reasons:
1) I need the money as my current job does not pay well (Its so low paid that being on he dole isnt to far off my wage).
2) I really want to get back working in an area I qualified in.

I know people think I should take the €10.00, but I think I would be selling myself short.

Anyway I will let ye know the outcome of the suituation.

Thanks for all your responses & advice, much appreciated!

archtech

I would say that it, if you are really interested in getting back to working at what you are qualified at, take the job, you never know it may lead to something better in the longer term.

It would show any potential employers that you are so passionate about a career as an AT in that you are will to give up your evenings weekends to gain/maintain employment in the industry.

€10/hr after tax isn't that bad in the current climate. I'm sure there's many qualified architects ATs and engineers working in McDonald, Tesco etc whom would quiet happily work within the industry for €10/hr.

Poor Uncle Tom

^^^^^^^^^^
That's exactly as I see it too.

gman2k

€10/hour is deplorable for such a skilled job.....but If you were getting 40 hours a week it could be a godsend.
If I was in a situation like that, I would view my services as a business contract, and be very business orientated about your client/ customer relationship.
There is no point being a busy fool in this life, I've worked in too many jobs for 'free'.

Supertech

As I see it guys €10 an hour doing what you've been trained to do is better than not doing any relevant work at all. It's also after tax, so that equates to roughly €13 or €14 an hour in total, so even if it's not 40 hours a week it's still not to be sneezed at. OP if you turn down the work at that rate now, there is little chance of the person looking to sub-contract it coming back to you when times change and there's more work out there, and rates inevitably rise.

We're playing the long game at the moment, and looking at the competition that's out there for work and the dramatic drop in fees, €10 an hour could be quite a chunk of the overall fee on the job.

I'd grab it with both hands, cultivate a relationship with the person you'd be working for, and position yourself to take advantage whenever things eventually pick up. Your other option, if you want to get back in to your area of expertise is to bite the bullet and set up as an independent practitioner. €10 and hour will seem like a fortune then !

bravojohnny

You see I used to work with my potential employers in our old company & now two of them have set up their own business & offered me work.

They know me & my work well as they used to be my 'team leaders'.

They have told me that they will give me work (every week) that they think will take 20hours & I quote 'if it takes me 25hours, well tough'.

I know them well enough to know it will take more then 20hours, hence I will be working for less then €10.00 an hour.

It is a tough suitiation I find myself in, as said by Supertech if I turn them down I will probly lose any chance of future employment within their company. At the same time I don't want to work for 'noting'.

Supertech

The only way to attack it bravojohnny is to give them 20 good hours and if it genuinely doesn't work out that way then bail out. The contract situation has to work both ways - they have the benefit of not having to employ you full time, but you need to be compensated for your time. That situation is slightly different to what I had thought. It's not €10 per hour, it's €200 per week for work which is effectively overtime, and should be paid at time and a half (not an open ended hourly drafting rate).

The cap puts an entirely different slant on it. Best advice I could give is try it for a month and see how it goes. If you can knock the stuff out in less than 20 hours then you're winning, if not I'd be making my case to them that it's not possible to complete the works in the time specified, and if they don't stump up any extra cash then I'd part company. Unfortunately for you it's a buyer's market at the minute.

Also - how will the tax situation work ? Are they making the returns for you ? Are they covering tax, income levy, USC etc. ? All of that needs to be firmed up on before hand so you're not liable for any monies out of the €10 per hour. If they're not going to do that you'll have to invoice them, make a tax return (which might push you up to higher tax bracket given that you're holding down a full time job aswell) You may need an accountant - more expense ??

No6

When I was doing contract work I'd agree a price for the job rather than an hourly rate, if I was working for 10 and hour they would be very short hours!!

Supertech

:D^^

gman2k

bravojohnny wrote: »

They have told me that they will give me work (every week) that they think will take 20hours & I quote 'if it takes me 25hours, well tough'.

I have yet to work for an architect (employer) who could estimate correctly the time taken to carry out a job.
Eg, a planning application for a house:
Architect: Shure that'll only take half a day.
Me::rolleyes:

No6

If they are paying an hourly rate then its so much per hour for how ever many hours it takes to do the job. If they want the fixed price then thats what they should look for, I used always work remotely so they couldn't be changing it as I was doing it, it would come back finished at the end!! Depending on the job there might be one or two meetings during it but thats how I used to do it and it worked very well for me.

woody1

coming to this discussion a bit late , id be interested to know what the op did in the end..
speaking as a technician that hasnt worked as a technician for 15 months now i'd bite someones hand off for 10 euro an hour to do work that interested me , im getting that for data entry job that im doing for the past year and its mind numbingly boring , and when youve been working in something that interests and excites you for 13 odd years dont underestimate how depressing it can be to be doing something as dull as this
theres a job advertised locally enough to me by a company that are renowned for treating their employees badly...but i have to say im very tempted...

from an upskilling point of view as mentioned earlier in the thread.. it may not always be neccessary to get a masters or a doctorate or go to the nth degree in terms of qualifications.. i managed to get on the fas/epa perc tests course a few years back and it has proved invaluable in terms of the work it has generated and in keeping me somewhat involved and linked with the industry... its not going to make me a fortune but id be lost without it
anyway back to the point...take the 10 an hour and see how they treat you... or what did you do in the end ?

bravojohnny

A quick update on the situation:

Bacially they got another previous employee who is on the dole & are paying them cash in hand.
25-30hours a week for €200 cash.

So I lost out because I played hardball.

I'm dissapointed that I didnt take it now, but on the other hand maybe I was right not to?

So Im back to my job of a cad technician.

Hopefully something else will come up.

Thank you all for your advice & tips.

woody1

30 hours a week for 200 euro, thats robbery... i know i said i was fairly keen to get back to work that interested me but thats just ridiculous, you might be better off without it...

gman2k

bravojohnny wrote: »

Bacially they got another previous employee who is on the dole & are paying them cash in hand.
25-30hours a week for €200 cash.

If I were you, I'd report them to the Social Welfare office/ tax man so.
That is theft, pure and simple.

bravojohnny

Hi all,

Sorry to bring up my old thread again; but I have an interview next Friday with an architectural firm. Now on the phone my potential new employer has asked me to think about my salary rate as they may offer me a permanent position or contract work & so I have to give them figures for a permanent salary or for an hourly contract rate.

As, I said before (at the start of the thread) I have over 5years experience working on one off residential projects to 'extremely large & complex projects' worth millions (celtic tiger :rolleyes: ). I also have a cert for completing Revit architecture basics (I was trying to upskill in my own time)

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

woody1

what part of country , just curious, i applied for one couple of weeks ago, its a bit too far away really for it to be feasible for me, but i was so shocked to see a job going i applied for the craic anyway

bravojohnny

Hi Woody1,

Midlands.

I would be interested to hear if you have an opinions on salary / hourly rate?

Thanks,

sawdoubters

ask for 15

woody1

nah the one im looking at is claremorris , co mayo
ok well im still in the data entry job, so i would
still probably take architectural work for less than
i would in an ideal world,
if there was a 9-5 job going close to me where
fuel / childminding / related expenses werent a big deal
then to be honest id work for the same rate im on now
which is 10 euro an hour.. so 400 a week,
a lot to be said for doing work you like to do ,
now before someone says thats madness, i asked for 400 a
week for a relatively senior position in the west 3 years ago
and was told i was looking for way too much

job in claremorriss prob doesnt suit becuase of the above expenses

im also out of things for 6 years so i have no clue what the situation is out there,

No6

Woody, 10 per hour is pretty terrible, who is offering that in Claremorris, I probably know them having worked in the area for many years, I did contract work for some firms in mayo in 2001 and the rate was around 3 times what you are talking about then!!

woody1

nobody is offering that i said thats what id take to do work that interested me rather than what im doing at the moment
another thing its definitely not 2001 anymore,
sure we were all loaded back then ..
it was in ballina that they said 400 a week ( net ) was far too much

No6

Jesus slave wages!! I am supprised they didn't offer you a job bridge internship!!:eek:

Mellor

bravojohnny wrote: »

Now on the phone my potential new employer has asked me to think about my salary rate as they may offer me a permanent position or contract work & so I have to give them figures for a permanent salary or for an hourly contract rate.

This idea that you have to provide figures for salary/hourly rate is a load of bollox. It's purely for them to see who is the most desperate.

Tell them you have a figure in mind, but you'd like to keep it to your self for obvious reasons. And if they are offering less given the current climate that you won't be offended.

I'm think of looking for new work soon. I'll be going in with the above attitude.

coolbeans

OP, don't go to bloody Australia if you can avoid it. Try the UK, construction is booming here in the south where I am.

woody1

the ad for the job in ballina 3 /4 years ago was worded very cleverly, didnt say architectural technician and didnt say cad technician, that way they could be cute enough about wages but still see what was out there ..and then could chop you down when you asked for reasonable money ( i asked for more initially and was then asked how low would i go ) i know the guy that took the job , hes a very good cad technician, has years of experience , closest thing to an arch tech without the qualification, but he mustve taken less than the 400

Mellor

coolbeans wrote: »

OP, don't go to bloody Australia if you can avoid it.

Why not?
Abut of a vague statement.

coolbeans

There's work closer to home, in the UK for example.

Glebee

From talking to people last week London seems to be booming these days. Savage amount of construction work being done.

coolbeans

Not just London, it's all over southern England. I'm in planning and the apps just keep on coming in. Seems mad to go to the other side of the world just cos you need a job when the work is virtually on your doorstep.

Mellor

coolbeans wrote: »

There's work closer to home, in the UK for example.

I still don't understand your point. You make it sounds like travel should only be a last resort. That the OP would be ludicrous to consider it if there's work in the UK. When in reality there's a huge number of issues.

I didn't see the post where the OP mentioned australia, so not sure if he presented it as a last resort or not.

coolbeans wrote: »

Not just London, it's all over southern England. I'm in planning and the apps just keep on coming in. Seems mad to go to the other side of the world just cos you need a job when the work is virtually on your doorstep.

If a job was the ONLY reason for going, yeah that would be a bit mad. The commute would be a killer for a start.
But my point was that there are other reasons to want to see the world.

No6

It dosn't rain as much and the sun shines more, 2 of the best reasons for coming to Oz!!