FreeSat TV + RTE... Options??

kormak

Right, so I've been reading loads of articles on Freesat/Saorview/BlaBla and trying to figure out what my best options are.
I've just cancelled my Sky (good riddance).
I have a nice 42" Sagem TV, But not MPEG4 capable unfortunately.
I've already bought a Sagem Freesat Digital Satellite Receiver from Peats.ie, which I've tested and works perfect for all the UK channels.
Last problem... Irish TV!

I have a regular arial already erected on my roof, but I need to get some extra coaxial + connectors and extend this down to my TV area
(never had to use this since we moved in to the house 2 years ago, so don't know what the picture will be like).
If I can get all 4 Irish channels watchable, I'm happy to have this setup for as long as the analogue signal is there for.

Another option and especially if the signal is crap, is one of these: http://www.powercity.ie/?par=30-72-27769R&brands=PHILEX
which appaerntly works for UHF Digital signal??! then is TV3 not available on this frequency???

Finally, eventually I will probably have to fork out for a special "saorview" box to get channels that I need.
No way am I paying 100 lids for one now though...

any options/advice on this.
Sorry, I'm still trying to get my head around Digital Freesat TV, Saorview, etc. etc....

Thanks

STB

kormak wrote: »

Right, so I've been reading loads of articles on Freesat/Saorview/BlaBla and trying to figure out what my best options are.
I've just cancelled my Sky (good riddance).
I have a nice 42" Sagem TV, But not MPEG4 capable unfortunately.
I've already bought a Sagem Freesat Digital Satellite Receiver from Peats.ie, which I've tested and works perfect for all the UK channels.
Last problem... Irish TV!

I have a regular arial already erected on my roof, but I need to get some extra coaxial + connectors and extend this down to my TV area
(never had to use this since we moved in to the house 2 years ago, so don't know what the picture will be like).
If I can get all 4 Irish channels watchable, I'm happy to have this setup for as long as the analogue signal is there for.

Another option and especially if the signal is crap, is one of these: http://www.powercity.ie/?par=30-72-27769R&brands=PHILEX
which appaerntly works for UHF Digital signal??! then is TV3 not available on this frequency???

Finally, eventually I will probably have to fork out for a special "saorview" box to get channels that I need.
No way am I paying 100 lids for one now though...

any options/advice on this.
Sorry, I'm still trying to get my head around Digital Freesat TV, Saorview, etc. etc....

Thanks

All can be done in one box, one remote one channel list, see Combo boxes sticky - and for not much more than the price of a saorview box!

emaherx

the philex signal booster http://www.powercity.ie/?par=30-72-27769R&brands=PHILEX will not improve your signal, may even make it worse.

A mast head amp and power supply is the only type of amp/ "Signal Booster" that is of any use for an outdoor aerial. (only use if needed may also make a good signal bad through overloading.)

Edit: Just realised it is the crappy indoor ariel which you linked to. If outdoor aerial wont work then indoor definetly wont work. Digital or HD ready for aerial dose not mean anything. Sort of like Ford advertising there cars as having round wheels. If you are in strong signal area most of your coat hangers are Digital HD and 3D ready :0)

there is no special digital amp / aerial. (what works for analog will work for digital).

RTE1/2, TG4, TV3, 3E and RTE News now are available on digital.
The usual 4 on Analog are still there for now.


You are dead right about 100 Euro for a Walker Saorview box being too expensive. There will be cheaper certified boxes and already is cheaper uncertified boxes. Can probably get a Freeview HD box for about €60 maybe less. Avoid old Freeview boxes which are not Freeview HD.

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

. . .I have a regular arial already erected on my roof, but I need to get some extra coaxial + connectors and extend this down to my TV area . . .

Concentrate on this part for now. Get some good quality coax (Webro WF100, Triax TX100 for example or at least make sure it's got foil & braid screening) & connectors that fit properly.
See how that goes before worrying about amplifiers.

watty

STB wrote: »

All can be done in one box, one remote one channel list, see Combo boxes sticky - and for not much more than the price of a saorview box!

But only in basic sense. There is no combo solution that's really freesat compatible. There is a huge difference between Freesat or Sky box and any FTA satellite box.

However I know what you are saying.

kormak

Hello again....
back with a weird one!
So I got some decent 75Ohm coax cable and connected it back it up to our roof arial.
Auto tuned our TV and low & behold it picked up SaorView - RTE Digital service perfectly.
Happy Days I thought...

Then yesterday Sky went ahead and disconnected me.
I noted that the RTE digital channels were still fine on the TV even after they disconnected.
I plugged in my new Freesat receiver, tuned it up and everything was fine.
However when I went back to the regular TV channels, Saorview had disappeared completely.
I tred to re-tune it back in but it will only receive the 4 channels from Analogue.

This seems really weird as they were definitely tuned to the TV before aka using the coaxial aerial.
I even reverted all cables back to the way it was before I disconnected and again it only tuned in the analogue signal???!

from the outset it looks like it wasn't the coaxial after all, it was somehow picking it up through Sky and now has been descrambled! but....
These channels remained available on the regular TV channels even though RTE (101) was no longer coming through Sky last night
AND they were originally tuned to the TV channels and worked fine. i.e. they weren't coming though SCART, HDMI, AV channels, etc...

I've said it to a few people I work with and they reckon it could simply be weather dependent!! and it might pick digital again some other day.
Others have suggested re-pointing the aerial and a nearer transmitter!

Anyone have any idea why this is happening??!
I had to watch the 5-way leaders debate last night in an analogue snowstorm!! :rolleyes:

STB

What model TV do you have ?

Are you in Dublin ? Peats is metioned. So it must be.

Forget the Sky Box take that out of the equation completely. Run the aerial cable directly to the TV.

Manual Scan the Digital/DVB Channels - Channel 54 (738MHZ). You may have a signal meter on the TV to tell you how strong the signal is.

kormak

STB wrote: »

What model TV do you have ?

Are you in Dublin ? Peats is metioned. So it must be.

Forget the Sky Box take that out of the equation completely. Run the aerial cable directly to the TV.

Manual Scan the Digital/DVB Channels - Channel 54 (738MHZ). You may have a signal meter on the TV to tell you how strong the signal is.

This is my TV:
http://www.samsung.com/ie/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/plasma-tv/PS42C450B1WXXU/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification
No mention of MPEG4 but it deffo tuned the DTT service.
I'm in North of Drogheda.
The aerial cable is going directly into the back of the TV!!
I've only tried auto scan which seemed to work before... will try out the manual scan frequencies above.

kormak

kormak wrote: »

This is my TV:
http://www.samsung.com/ie/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/plasma-tv/PS42C450B1WXXU/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification
No mention of MPEG4 but it deffo tuned the DTT service.
I'm in North of Drogheda.
The aerial cable is going directly into the back of the TV!!
I've only tried auto scan which seemed to work before... will try out the manual scan frequencies above.

http://shopping.trustedreviews.com/UK/product/785522199/Samsung_PS42C450_42_Plasma_TV

According to this site there is.
Digital Tuner
* DVB-C (MPEG4)
* DVB-T (MPEG4)

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

. . . I had to watch the 5-way leaders debate last night in an analogue snowstorm!! :rolleyes:

This would seem to point to poor reception generally, you say you haven't used the roof aerial until now?
Maybe you should recheck any new connections you made.
Also, which channels are the analogue services on?

STB

kormak wrote: »

http://shopping.trustedreviews.com/UK/product/785522199/Samsung_PS42C450_42_Plasma_TV

According to this site there is.
Digital Tuner
* DVB-C (MPEG4)
* DVB-T (MPEG4)

Yes is fine.

Well manually scan Channel 53 (730 MHZ) then as Clermont Carn is your nearest transmitter rather than what I originally told you which is for Dublin.

Is your aerial vertically polarised ?

Bottom one.

kormak

STB wrote: »

Yes is fine.

Well manually scan Channel 53 (730 MHZ) then as Clermont Carn is your nearest transmitter rather than what I originally told you which is for Dublin.

Is your aerial vertically polarised ?

Bottom one.

It's vertically polarised... why?
Also it is pointing in the opposite direction to Cooley/Clermount Cairn, i.e. the arrow part is poitning away from the Dundalk/Mourne area.

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

This would seem to point to poor reception generally, you say you haven't used the roof aerial until now?
Maybe you should recheck any new connections you made.
Also, which channels are the analogue services on?

The roof aerial has been in the house since we bought it.
We've always just used Sky.
I reconnected it to the coax in the attic. I will go over the connections again tonight.
Also "which channels are the analogue services on?" by this I presume you mean frequency??
I haven't checked as they were loaded automatically.

STB

kormak wrote: »

It's vertically polarised... why?
Also it is pointing in the opposite direction to Cooley/Clermount Cairn, i.e. the arrow part is poitning away from the Dundalk/Mourne area.

3 Rock in Dublin and Clermont in Louth are probably equidistant but I would have thought that Clermont Carn would most certainly have been the better option.

Clermont Carn Aerial must be vertically polarised.

Three Rock Aerial must be horizontally polarised.

Its set up from what you say for Clermont.

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

It's vertically polarised... why?
Also it is pointing in the opposite direction to Cooley/Clermount Cairn, i.e. the arrow part is poitning away from the Dundalk/Mourne area.

The 'arrow' (reflector) is supposed to point away from the transmitter.
Unless your installer was very incompetent, they wouldn't have pointed a vertically polarised aerial at Three Rock.

For the analogue channels, frequency or channel no. (52, 56, 66, 68 for Clermont) will be fine.

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

The 'arrow' (reflector) is supposed to point away from the transmitter.
Unless your installer was very incompetent, they wouldn't have pointed a vertically polarised aerial at Three Rock.

For the analogue channels, frequency or channel no. (52, 56, 66, 68 for Clermont) will be fine.

Yep, the rear reflector of the aerial is pointing in a South-SouthWest position, so it would seem the Aerial is in correct position to point to Cooley.
I'll try these manual frequencies and advise back.
Thanks

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

. . . So I got some decent 75Ohm coax cable and connected it back it up to our roof arial.

What did this involve & what kind of connectors (if any) did you use?

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What did this involve & what kind of connectors (if any) did you use?

Okay, so there's 3 cables coming down from the roof into the attic.
One is Satellite, one is the roof aerial and one is an FM aerial for radio.
Satellitle one is connected.
Have not yet differnciated between the other two but I can say that the one I picked certainly had no problems picking up the DTT last week. (I also plan to swap these around ths evening just in case...)

The cables were just 2 dead end coaxial cables dropping down into the attic.
I got a few "Gold plated" coaxial jacks and connected them to each end.
I also used a regular open ended connector to connect the cable in the attic to the new cable that I brought down to the TV.
The cable itself is decent enough stuff. regular 75Ohm.

If I never seen the digital picture I would certainly be questioning something with the connection, however as it was perfect and is now resorted back to analogue signal, this is the part that has me baffled.
Unless by some bizarre coincidence the cables disconnected up ion the attic! (I very much doubt it!)

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

Have not yet differnciated between the other two but I can say that the one I picked certainly had no problems picking up the DTT last week. (I also plan to swap these around ths evening just in case...)

. . . might be a good idea.

If I never seen the digital picture I would certainly be questioning something with the connection, however as it was perfect and is now resorted back to analogue signal . . .

Use the analogue signal as a reference for now, even the FM aerial could have picked up sufficient 'digital' signal given the right conditions.

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

. . . might be a good idea.



Use the analogue signal as a reference for now, even the FM aerial could have picked up sufficient 'digital' signal given the right conditions.

Bingo!

You might just have been right...
When I swapped each cable around up in the attic, I retuned the TV and it picked up all digital channels again.
Seems I was using the FM aerial and it must have picked them under the previous under decent conditions.
Also, something to note. The digital picture was mad pixelated and jumpy when I managedto get them back the first time.... This was with the cheapy €1 coax jacks.
When I changed the TV coax to the more expensive gold plated jacks, the picture was... well picture perfect!!
All sorted now.
Thanks v much again to Peter Rhea & STB.

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

. . . This was with the cheapy €1 coax jacks.
When I changed the TV coax to the more expensive gold plated jacks . . .

€1 isn't cheap for a co-ax. plug, price generally is no indicator of their usefulness.
And don't get me started on gold . . .

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

€1 isn't cheap for a co-ax. plug, price generally is no indicator of their usefulness.
And don't get me started on gold . . .

Really?!
Oh well, I got the impression from one of your former posts that I should spend extra on everything, i.e. cable, plugs, etc...
I went for the dearest ones in the shop and they appear to be provided a healthier picture.
It's working like a dream now anyway...
Now all I gotta do is figure out the BBC iPlayer channel! :cool:

watty

"Gold" and "Dearest" doesn't mean "quality" or Best. The local Bargain store has €2 HDMI cables that are just as good as €50 and €100+ cables in some well known shops.

A Fat SCART with 4 x audio coax and 5 x video coax inside is better than any skinny SCART (bundle of wires with single screen) no matter price. Gold doesn't usually help SCART at all and if the TV / DVD/ Sat Box / VHS sockets are normal type (no Gold) any damp will set up a "battery" between the Gold plug and an non-gold socket and corrode the socket till it stops working. I have seen the "skinny" useless kind SCART from €2 to €40 (gold plated). I've bought proper SCART cables at €8 to €12.

Gold can only be used with gold, never against a different metal. It's not the best conductor either. Usually it's too thin and wears away. Often it needs a barrier layer of metal plated to allow it on the connector or PCB which can have magnetic properties that badly affect higher RF signals.

Nickel is fine for most audio/video applications, or stainless steel outdoors (Though Stainless causes rapid corrosion of wet Aluminium). Silver plating on Brass is good for high frequency RF. Gold is sometimes used professionally (in non-consumer gear), but only if both connectors are Gold.

kormak

watty wrote: »

"Gold" and "Dearest" doesn't mean "quality" or Best. The local Bargain store has €2 HDMI cables that are just as good as €50 and €100+ cables in some well known shops.

A Fat SCART with 4 x audio coax and 5 x video coax inside is better than any skinny SCART (bundle of wires with single screen) no matter price. Gold doesn't usually help SCART at all and if the TV / DVD/ Sat Box / VHS sockets are normal type (no Gold) any damp will set up a "battery" between the Gold plug and an non-gold socket and corrode the socket till it stops working. I have seen the "skinny" useless kind SCART from €2 to €40 (gold plated). I've bought proper SCART cables at €8 to €12.

Gold can only be used with gold, never against a different metal. It's not the best conductor either. Usually it's too thin and wears away. Often it needs a barrier layer of metal plated to allow it on the connector or PCB which can have magnetic properties that badly affect higher RF signals.

Nickel is fine for most audio/video applications, or stainless steel outdoors (Though Stainless causes rapid corrosion of wet Aluminium). Silver plating on Brass is good for high frequency RF. Gold is sometimes used professionally (in non-consumer gear), but only if both connectors are Gold.

Yeah... but you can GET CASH 4 GOLD!

watty

About 1/10th or less value of it as Jewellery, and a fraction of it's value by weight as gold. I think I heard one of those companies is being investigated.

Gerry Wicklow

watty wrote: »

I think I heard one of those companies is being investigated.

In UK 2 have "ceased trading following our enquiries" and 4 others are still under investigation. HMmmmmm

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

Really?!
Oh well, I got the impression from one of your former posts that I should spend extra on everything, i.e. cable, plugs, etc...
I went for the dearest ones in the shop and they appear to be provided a healthier picture.
It's working like a dream now anyway...

Have to say I've never actually encountered a gold coax. plug, I've only ever used the bog standard aluminium ones.
Poor performance is usually caused by poor fitting.
This is the recommended way.

kormak

woops!
spoke too soon... it's fecking gone again this evening!!!
This has to be weather based or something?

Peter Rhea

What's analogue like?

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What's analogue like?

They're not bad (for analogoe). some light snow.
RTE1 is unwatchable... full of snow but can hear perfect.
I've tried manually tuning using channels, 53,54, 68 and using the frequencies 738000 but it's not picking up any....!

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

They're not bad (for analogoe). some light snow.
RTE1 is unwatchable... full of snow but can hear perfect.

That sounds like rubbish reception, is it like that all the time? (I know it hasn't been hooked up for too long)

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

That sounds like rubbish reception, is it like that all the time? (I know it hasn't been hooked up for too long)

pretty much!
can't understand how it can be absolutely perfect and won't even receive the signal the next?? surely if there was a connection issue I would never of got a perfect Digital picture??
I'm putting it down to external conditions for now.

Peter Rhea

kormak wrote: »

pretty much!
can't understand how it can be absolutely perfect and won't even receive the signal the next??

That's exactly how it works, once the signal falls off the 'digital cliff', reception is lost completely.

Get the analogue channels coming in at a reasonable & above all consistent level or use the tv's digital signal quality meter.
The digital signals are on similar frequencies to analogue, so will also benefit from any improvements you achieve there.

Any reference I made to weather conditions was in relation to high pressure 'lift' conditions which can bring in otherwise weak signals, nothing to do with a properly set up aerial pointing at the correct transmitter.

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

That's exactly how it works, once the signal falls off the 'digital cliff', reception is lost completely.

Get the analogue channels coming in at a reasonable & above all consistent level or use the tv's digital signal quality meter.
The digital signals are on similar frequencies to analogue, so will also benefit from any improvements you achieve there.

Any reference I made to weather conditions was in relation to high pressure 'lift' conditions which can bring in otherwise weak signals, nothing to do with a properly set up aerial pointing at the correct transmitter.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056057752

I just spotted ths sticky Peter!
Gonna have a gander now but it looks like I'm not alone with signal loss & Saorview...

Peter Rhea

I don't want to be nagging or repeating myself but if your analogue reception is also very poor all the time, it's unlikely to be a transmitter issue.
The Saorview digital transmissions are not some seperate, magical service; they're actually an RF 'analogue' of the digital data, so what works for one should work for both.
Maybe you should call back your installer or find out what neighbours' reception is like.

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I don't want to be nagging or repeating myself but if your analogue reception is also very poor all the time, it's unlikely to be a transmitter issue.
The Saorview digital transmissions are not some seperate, magical service; they're actually an RF 'analogue' of the digital data, so what works for one should work for both.
Maybe you should call back your installer or find out what neighbours' reception is like.

Fair enough. If the problem persists I'll get a TV engineer out to throw his eye over everything. cheers.

Joe7

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Have to say I've never actually encountered a gold coax. plug, I've only ever used the bog standard aluminium ones.
Poor performance is usually caused by poor fitting.
This is the recommended way.

Other ways to wire 'Belling Lee' connectors:

http://www.satcure.com/tech/tvplugs.htm
http://www.aerialsandtv.com/wiringup.html#KinkyCentreCore

kormak

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I don't want to be nagging or repeating myself but if your analogue reception is also very poor all the time, it's unlikely to be a transmitter issue.
The Saorview digital transmissions are not some seperate, magical service; they're actually an RF 'analogue' of the digital data, so what works for one should work for both.
Maybe you should call back your installer or find out what neighbours' reception is like.

I tried another scan this evening and no joy.
However, I picked up a length of Webro WF100 cable on my way home!

So whipped out the original cable and re-connected the plugs to this new cable, following your guide step-by-step (except I don't have a soldering iron)
So I jammed the cooper wire in against the inside of the jack as suggested.
Tried a re-scan and hey presto! they're back...
we'll see how this goes and in the meantime try borrow someones iron!

watty

Putting a "kink" on the inner cable works quite well. Some connectors are not solderable and it's easy to melt the connector or cable plastic.