Article on the effects of "Limbo"

robindch

Up to a few years ago, the Vatican used to say that a baby who died before it was baptized was delivered to "Limbo" - a state in which the dead child was believed to be insufficiently impure to warrant a one-way trip to hell, but not pure enough to get to heaven. JPII ordered some theological research done into the topic, but he died before it was completed. On his election, Ratzinger let the work continue and a year or two later when the report was finally delivered, he leapt up onto the nearest balcony and declared that catholics were now required to believe that Limbo probably didn't exist, and may not ever have existed.

All that religious jiggerypokery is silly enough, but there were real-life consequences which were anything but funny, as a heart-breaking piece in today's Irish Times reported:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0202/1224288760646.html

.

fisgon

If ever there was proof that these guys were simply making it all up as they went along, then Limbo is it. I remember the report when it came out, it said that limbo was nothing more than 'theological speculation', and that it had no basis in fact. I laughed when i read that. 'Theological speculation'? The whole religion is just theological speculation, a bunch of old guys in robes sitting around and going,.....'what do you reckon then, how do we explain this Trinity business? And we still have to make up some more of the Original Sin story'.

Of course what Limbo really was was another instrument of control. Make parents scared enough of this netherworld so as they baptise their babies good and early. A truly despicable, abhorrent idea, even for the RCC.

Zombrex

The whole issue of limbo really highlights how bizarre the phenomena of cultural catholicism is

Catholics are angry at the church because they don't accept what the church tell them, but instead of leaving the church they want the church to change what it is saying, so they obviously still require acceptance from the church.

This along with the child abuse scandals really makes you wonder to most Catholics really have a clue what they believe in, or are supposed to believe in. It seems wholly cultural, just something people do simply because they never did or considered anything else.

amacachi

"Thank God people have grown up a bit and we don’t take that anymore. It was nonsense.” If only.

Wicknight wrote: »

The whole issue of limbo really highlights how bizarre the phenomena of cultural catholicism is

Catholics are angry at the church because they don't accept what the church tell them, but instead of leaving the church they want the church to change what it is saying, so they obviously still require acceptance from the church.

This along with the child abuse scandals really makes you wonder to most Catholics really have a clue what they believe in, or are supposed to believe in. It seems wholly cultural, just something people do simply because they never did or considered anything else.

Was just talking about the article with my mam to which she said "If someone told me I couldn't bury my child on consecrated ground I know what I'd do." She still hasn't even vaguely explained what the follow-up sentence could be.

keppler

robindch wrote: »

Up to a few years ago, the Vatican asserted that a baby who died before it was baptized was delivered to "Limbo" - a state in which the dead child was believed to be insufficiently impure to warrant a one-way trip to hell, but not pure enough to get to heaven. JPII ordered some theological research done into the topic, but he died before it was completed. On his election, Ratzinger let the work continue and a year or two later when the report was finally delivered, he declared leapt up onto the nearest balcony and declared that catholics were now required to believe that Limbo probably didn't exist, and may not ever have existed.

All that religious jiggerypokery is silly enough, but there were real-life consequences which were anything but funny, as a heart-breaking piece in today's Irish Times reported:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0202/1224288760646.html

.

WTF......I mean, how many years does it take to read the bible and cop that theres no reason to believe that unclean babies go to limbo? Seriously, a research team + how many years is required for this!
Also, Why couldnt Papa Midnight just plomp his arse down on the big chair and listen to the voices in his head?

CiaranMT

Wicknight wrote: »

The whole issue of limbo really highlights how bizarre the phenomena of cultural catholicism is

Catholics are angry at the church because they don't accept what the church tell them, but instead of leaving the church they want the church to change what it is saying, so they obviously still require acceptance from the church.

This along with the child abuse scandals really makes you wonder to most Catholics really have a clue what they believe in, or are supposed to believe in. It seems wholly cultural, just something people do simply because they never did or considered anything else.

Seems? It positively is.

liamw

Wicknight wrote: »

This along with the child abuse scandals really makes you wonder to most Catholics really have a clue what they believe in, or are supposed to believe in. It seems wholly cultural, just something people do simply because they never did or considered anything else.

I absolutely agree with this. To most people, Catholicism seems to be a label to which they identify, akin to their birthplace or surname. It makes no sense really, but then, most people don't think.

robindch

^^^ xkcd to the rescue!



Also applies to fans of Ayn Rand, PCT-enthusiasts and many religionists.

the_syco

robindch wrote: »

All that religious jiggerypokery is silly enough, but there were real-life consequences which were anything but funny, as a heart-breaking piece in today's Irish Times reported:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0202/1224288760646.html

.

Holy f**k. After reading that article, you'd nearly want to burn down a church.

keppler wrote: »

Also, Why couldnt Papa Midnight just plomp his arse down on the big chair and listen to the voices in his head?

It seems Limbo was created as a way around the part of the article in the OP:

St Augustine concluded in the fifth century that infants who die without baptism were consigned to hell

I'd be surprised if some priests haven't been killed for this sh|t.

ShooterSF

Wicknight wrote: »

Catholics are angry at the church because they don't accept what the church tell them, but instead of leaving the church they want the church to change what it is saying, so they obviously still require acceptance from the church.

This + a sideways 8.

The fact that they went out to an island off donegal and blessed it rather than realising what a crock of , ehem, the whole thing is saddens me. The fact that people allow their emotions to be tore apart by a stupid club, beg the club to change it's rules and then practically get down on their knees to thank them if they do seems horrible, if not scary.

Beruthiel

It has been said that Augustine was the one who came up with the idea that a child must be baptized otherwise it's off to Limbo with them.
It amazes me that the ravings of one man were taken up and continued for so long afterwards.
How cruel the suffering of countless thousands as the result of a cruel and nasty religion.

Count Duckula

Hang on, why would God choose to let a child die but then punish it for dying too early? Is he playing with us? Try to see how quickly we can get from vagina to baptism?

Catholic Time Trials.

vinchick

This practice was just so awful. My heart goes out to all the people have been and still are affected by this. How could anyone turn to parents and say those things, the mind boggles? So much for being an organisation based on love.

antomagoo

Program on BBC about this the other night. A graveyard up the north had some land on the side of it which was used to bury unbatised babies and suicide victims often in mass graves. The church then sold the land. Heartbreaking watching some of the parents telling their stories

Beruthiel

antomagoo wrote: »

The church then sold the land.

Wow. I don't have the words for that kind of callousness.

liamw

robindch wrote: »

^^^ xkcd to the rescue!

That doesn't apply here. I don't know what planet you're living on but the majority of people I meet day to day do not think critically about their beliefs or lack thereof.

Pompey Magnus

Beruthiel wrote: »

It has been said that Augustine was the one who came up with the idea that a child must be baptized otherwise it's off to Limbo with them.

An interesting detail regarding this is that at the time Augustine was preaching that unbaptized babies cannot enter heaven the main opposition to his theological claim came from Pelagius, a monk who is believed to have come from Ireland.

Unfortunately for countless families over the following 1,600 years the Catholic Church decided to back Augustine's claims and denounced Pelagius as a heretic.

robindch

liamw wrote: »

I don't know what planet you're living on but the majority of people I meet day to day do not think critically about their beliefs or lack thereof.

Agreed, but the point of the cartoon is to show the lots of people who think they're thinking.

People's creduility seems to be inversely related to the intensity with which they declare their belief that they're "very sceptical, you know".

Des Carter

fisgon wrote: »

If ever there was proof that these guys were simply making it all up as they went along, then Limbo is it. I remember the report when it came out, it said that limbo was nothing more than 'theological speculation', and that it had no basis in fact. I laughed when i read that. 'Theological speculation'? The whole religion is just theological speculation, a bunch of old guys in robes sitting around and going,.....'what do you reckon then, how do we explain this Trinity business? And we still have to make up some more of the Original Sin story'.

Of course what Limbo really was was another instrument of control. Make parents scared enough of this netherworld so as they baptise their babies good and early. A truly despicable, abhorrent idea, even for the RCC.

Hey lay off limbo. You can deny its existance all you want but empty dream space is no laughing matter.

dcmraad

Count Duckula wrote: »

Hang on, why would God choose to let a child die but then punish it for dying too early? Is he playing with us? Try to see how quickly we can get from vagina to baptism?

Catholic Time Trials.

None of anything religion says makes any sense.

vinchick wrote: »

This practice was just so awful. My heart goes out to all the people have been and still are affected by this. How could anyone turn to parents and say those things, the mind boggles? So much for being an organisation based on love.

Imagine that you spent 50 years mourning your kid in limbo, then the dickhead pope comes out with this.