Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton

ilovesleep

Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton. I don't get it. She does not belong to the toxic FF party and she knows how to do her job.

Read this from Jan 2007. Labours - Joan Burton calling on FF's finiance minister - brian cowen to introduce measures to avoid serious trouble for Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055035918&highlight=finance+minster+joan

mikemac

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton. I don't get it. She does not belong to the toxic FF party

True but realy you don't get a free pass.
Anyone from the opposition has to prove themselves as well.
Not just think they are good just because of what they are not a member of

sollar

I don't hate her, she can be a tad annoying though when she starts talking and just won't stop until she has made her point for the umteeth time. Apart from that she's grand..... certainly not a bad person.

d'Oracle

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton. I don't get it. She does not belong to the toxic FF party and she knows how to do her job.

Read this from Jan 2007. Labours - Joan Burton calling on FF's finiance minister - brian cowen to introduce measures to avoid serious trouble for Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055035918&highlight=finance+minster+joan

She isn't that charismatic.
And having observed the hatred of Enda for the same reason its not surprising.

I actually like her.
But, her performance on Vincent Brown last week (I think) was appalling.
Anybody who behaves like that infront of national TV......I would have doubts about them.

mcwhirter

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.

Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

whydoibother?

I definitely don't hate her. I think she is one of the more hard-working politicians. You see/hear her all the time. I think she is more concerned with the bigger picture where others care about local vote-getting issues. I also think she's very genuine.

However, I do have some reservations. Firstly, I think she can let herself down in inverviews. She can go a little off-topic just to get the boot into other parties and sometimes her responses can seem like "I told you so", "I told you so", "I told you so".

Also, the party they have chosen to represent is always a factor in deciding whether you like a politician. Some people might react to that. Instinctively, I wouldn't have said left-leaning policies were the way to stimulate the economy at this time. On the other hand I believe the Corporation Tax rate was Ruairi Quinn's idea originally, so maybe they would do a decent job if they got in.

sollar

mcwhirter wrote: »

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.

Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

God this view is catching like flu..... it has nothing to do with sexism, this sexism hysteria has to stop.

d'Oracle

whydoibother? wrote: »

I definitely don't hate her. I think she is one of the more hard-working politicians. You see/hear her all the time. I think she is more concerned with the bigger picture where others care about local vote-getting issues. I also think she's very genuine.

However, I do have some reservations. Firstly, I think she can let herself down in inverviews. She can go a little off-topic just to get the boot into other parties and sometimes her responses can seem like "I told you so", "I told you so", "I told you so".

Captain hindsight.... In fairness to her, she came down like a tonne of bricks on the bank guarantee. She did sort of tell them so.

whydoibother? wrote: »

Also, the party they have chosen to represent is always a factor in deciding whether you like a politician. Some people might react to that. Instinctively, I wouldn't have said left-leaning policies were the way to stimulate the economy at this time. On the other hand I believe the Corporation Tax rate was Ruairi Quinn's idea originally, so maybe they would do a decent job if they got in.

We all need to get over this silly idea that Labour are marxists and that social responsibility is some sort of enemy of progress. Its just not true.
That said, their Broadband policy is basically the same useless ineffectual BS that FF have been using to "solve" the other problems for about 10 years.

ilovesleep

d'Oracle wrote: »

She isn't that charismatic.
And having observed the hatred of Enda for the same reason its not surprising.

I actually like her.
But, her performance on Vincent Brown last week (I think) was appalling.
Anybody who behaves like that infront of national TV......I would have doubts about them.

And look at how voting someone with plenty of charisma got ireland into the mess we're in. Bertie was a charismatic bullsh1ter.

Dirk Gently

mcwhirter wrote: »

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.

Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

This very attitude actually swung it for me last week. When she manufactured the sexist card both on the show against Higgins and then afterwards against Browne I was pretty much disgusted with her. It means she can say or do anything she likes and if anyone disagrees she'll cry sexism when there infact was none.

The pushing of this sexism line by Labour hacks since the show has also disgusted me. I thought perhaps labour might have had a bit more cop on but clearly they have no interest in gender equality when they can demean the sexism issue and use it to their own end in the way they have. I don't think it was an accident that she manufactured the charge at the same time as the sky sports leaks about grey. She saw an opportunity and she attempted to jump on the bandwagon and exploit it.

d'Oracle

ilovesleep wrote: »

And look at how voting someone with plenty of charisma got ireland into the mess we're in. Bertiewas a charismatic bullsh1ter.

Exactly.
Its something that annoys the hell out of me.
People are more bothered by a lack of charisma than a lack of integrity.

d'Oracle

clown bag wrote: »

This very attitude actually swung it for me last week. When she manufactured the sexist card both on the show against Higgins and then afterwards against Browne I was pretty much disgusted with her. It means she can say or do anything she likes and if anyone disagrees she'll cry sexism when there infact was none.

The pushing of this sexism line by Labour hacks since the show has also disgusted me. I thought perhaps labour might have had a bit more cop on but clearly they have no interest in gender equality when they can demean the sexism issue and use it to their own end in the way they have. I don't think it was an accident that she manufactured the charge at the same time as the sky sports leaks about grey. She saw an opportunity and she attempted to jump on the bandwagon and exploit it.

I wouldn't mind, but Joe is hardly a sexist.....

ArtSmart

She's on primetime now with big Lenny etc.

wonder will she be all sexysexist with Miriam?

:eek:

lugha

mcwhirter wrote: »

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.
Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

I don't think it is sexism. (Mary Harney used to get massive ratings as leader of the PDs).
It's stupid-ism! It has more to do with this silly X factor type thinking about image and charisma. Similar to the regular threads that appear here making similar silly points about Enda Kenny. What can you do? Dummies will be dummies.

hotmail.com

Joan tends to just explain what the situation is rather than answering the question or offering an alternative.

She'd be grand at contributing.

Aishae

i couldnt give a hoot if Dustin the Turkey is an ugly sod - who admittadly has charisma but lets pretend he has the same level of Charisma as Enda - if he cared about the state of the country and worked to improve things - stood for something more than a photo opportunity and had a good amount of ethics about them, id vote for them. i like joan and enda in this respect.

i dont think sexism is the reason most people who dislike her do so, but there must be some old boys who feel that way - the country is pretty big.

ArtSmart

hotmail.com wrote: »

Joan tends to just explain what the situation is rather than answering the question or offering an alternative.

She'd be grand at contributing.

Joan: "why do birds fly south? well they fly south and i think it's worth remembering that not all birds can fly, i think they fly south, and not north or north west - or indeed south west, i think if we look at the flight patterns of - and i'd also like to point out..."

oh, joan just ans the fcking question

d'Oracle

ArtSmart wrote: »

Joan: "why do birds fly south? well they fly south and i think it's worth remembering that not all birds can fly, i think they fly south, and not north or north west - or indeed south west, i think if we look at the flight patterns of - and i'd also like to point out..."

oh, joan just ans the fcking question

Eh.....is that not basically what every damn candidate/TD does when confronted with a question they don't like.

Ask her if the Bank guarantee scheme was a good idea, you'll get an answer.:)

ArtSmart

d'Oracle wrote: »

Eh.....is that not basically what every damn candidate/TD does when confronted with a question they don't like.

Ask her if the Bank guarantee scheme was a good idea, you'll get an answer.:)

firstly i'm a fan of joan's

second, i'm not talking about q evasion i'm talking about meandering

phantom_lord

Because she covers up the weakness in her knowledge and policies by stifling debate and haranguing people plus she's incredibly annoying.

d'Oracle

ArtSmart wrote: »

firstly i'm a fan of joan's

second, i'm not talking about q evasion i'm talking about meandering

Firstly Right so.

Secondly, I'm not sure that would change my response much.;)

ArtSmart

d'Oracle wrote: »

Firstly Right so.

Secondly, I'm not sure that would change my response much.;)

pity.

i'm talking about her tendency to meander - not evade - meander. it's a big turn off and she loses an audience bec of it and shows a lack of awareness of an audience. bad quality for a politician.

still, dont think it'll effect her election chances to much, though may effect labours.

sceptre

phantom_lord wrote: »

Because she covers up the weakness in her knowledge and policies by stifling debate and haranguing people plus she's incredibly annoying.

Unfortunately, this appears to be the case. Not only is she weak when being interviewed, but her performances on panel shows (especially the VB show with Joe Higgins) do her no favours. Communication includes the ability to stay quiet and avoid looking a fool. And that infamous VB appearance made her look quite foolish, all through her own poor performance and, frankly, idiotic rudeness.

Sexism has nothing to do with it - ignoring her appalling performance that night and in other interviews on the basis that she's a woman would be sexist. Highlighting it as one would do with any other hilariously idiotic performance is treating her just as fairly as anyone else in that situation. Asking her to let someone else speak when she's intent on cutting across them in as stupid a manner as she did is equally nothing to do with sexism. She's managed to lose even more points in the eyes of rational people by playing that card at all.

Her lack of knowledge when pressed and her behaviour when trying to cover it up makes her one of Labour's biggest liabilities. Keeping her off the air would be one of Gilmore's smartest moves right now if he wants to gain as many seats as possible.

thetonynator

I think she is a first rate politician, and would be very good in a senior government role, not necessarily finance.

phantom_lord

thetonynator wrote: »

I think she is a first rate politician, and would be very good in a senior government role, not necessarily finance.

Why?

Kivaro

The reason why I dislike her was the response she sent to me when I questioned why she berated a public official when he stated that the vast number of Nigerian Asylum applications were fraudulent.

She said that I did not understand the situation in Africa and the 'public' official was wrong for informing the 'public' about the ongoing fraud.

aidan24326

mcwhirter wrote: »

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.

Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

Pathetic post.

It's nothing got to with sexism.

bernardo mac

Of course Joan Burton may have faults and her style of delivery could be sharper and more effective but her work ethic, integrity and social commitment are admirable

ArtSmart

bernardo mac wrote: »

Of course Joan Burton may have faults and her style of delivery could be sharper and more effective but her work ethic, integrity and social commitment are admirable

and at the end of the day, i'd rather have her in govt than any member of FF since haughey.

Dirk Gently

I look forward to hearing Joans condemnation of Pat Rabbittes remarks yesterday.

meditraitor

As a regular Labour voter and sometime vocal supporter I never quite liked her, I cant put my finger on it but I just feel she is lacking something. She is not stupid but I dont think she has what it takes to be finance spokeperson for the Labour party and her recent showing on particularily the VB show have done the labour party harm.

I just dont understand why they have not replced her with Ruari Quinn already, the most respected ex finance minister still offering his service to the people.

Joan, begon

Tazzle

Personally I find her interactions on TV with other politicians/panel members very childish. The way I've seen her carry herself is not what I want in a representative. And seeing as she's deputy leader of Labour I find it impossible to vote for them.

mcwhirter

aidan24326 wrote: »

Pathetic post.

It's nothing got to with sexism.

sexism not mentioned in my post

Pal

She won't get my vote because she was poor in opposition.
Obstruction and mouthing off aplenty but Joan never offered any real alternatives.
Frequently showed that she didn't grasp the subject matter of finance.

Probably a good result would be to consign her to the bin with FF Old Guard.

Being a realist, I expect she will top the poll, but I don't know why

count66

mcwhirter wrote: »

I don't dislike her , but for the high percentage of neanderthals/andy grays out there is why she is hated, similar to why thatcher was hated, men not happy being told what to do by women.

Ireland is fairly backward in that respect.

What a sweeping and mostly idiotic statement by someone trying really hard to show they are non discriminatory ha ha.

I hate Joan Bruton and I would have liked Mary Hannifan as Fianna Fail leader - Joab Bruton is a hag, just the same as Enda Kenny is a tool - nothing to do with their sex - just simple facts.

Some people are gits and just get people backs up for no other reason than that's the way they come across.

So next time you make a sweeping comment while at the same time trying to maintain a moral high ground - please be slightly more clever than this pathetic attempt.

Vunderground

I think she is a more than competent politician and as an ex member of the Labour Party I met her a few time and found her charming.

jabarrett35

count66 wrote: »

What a sweeping and mostly idiotic statement by someone trying really hard to show they are non discriminatory ha ha.

I hate Joan Bruton and I would have liked Mary Hannifan as Fianna Fail leader - Joab Bruton is a hag, just the same as Enda Kenny is a tool - nothing to do with their sex - just simple facts.

Some people are gits and just get people backs up for no other reason than that's the way they come across.

So next time you make a sweeping comment while at the same time trying to maintain a moral high ground - please be slightly more clever than this pathetic attempt.

I believe ad hominem remarks are unnecessary and devalue your argument. You may hold those opinions but they are not facts. To be honest she rises to Vincent's taunts and needs too count to 10 before she answers. Most debates recently have nearly all decented into shouting matches eg Primetime.

super_furry

She's a shrill, screeching harpy, who plays the sexism card like she's playing bingo.

AhSureTisGrand

My main problem with her is that she talks as if her speech was written with caps lock on

Birroc

I found her very weak even before the VB disaster. She just seems to repeat the same coached waffle no matter what she is asked. She has totally turned me off voting Labour.

oppenheimer1

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton. I don't get it. She does not belong to the toxic FF party and she knows how to do her job.

Read this from Jan 2007. Labours - Joan Burton calling on FF's finiance minister - brian cowen to introduce measures to avoid serious trouble for Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055035918&highlight=finance+minster+joan

Why is she not that well liked? Its because she never answers the question she is asked but twists her response to what she wants to say even if its completely unrelated to the topic being discussed. If a poster did what she does in debates they would be banned for constantly going off topic.

Quite frankly she comes across as somewhat clueless and very annoying.

Tragedy

Hang on, in the thread linked in the OP she's actually complaining that the government of the time didn't spend even more money on public service/reducing tax burden.

How is that in any way 'calling it right'?

"Had the Minister gotten his sums right, he could have used part of that €5.2 billion to either reduce taxation, or to improve public services. Instead, he has 'accidentally' collected more, and spent less, than he could have. Errors of this magnitude come close to making a mockery of the entire Budget process," Ms Burton said.

DeVore

I was ambivalent about Mrs Burton before VB... I would sway between supporting FG and/or Labour at this time but after the VB debacle, I quite simply could not put that woman in charge of our finances or in government frankly. She was high handed, slippery, obnoxious, screeching and ultimately she played the sexism card when absolutely nothing about the piece was sexist. She seemed to think she should get a smooth ride while all the male politicians got dissected by VB. Then she cried foul when she got equal treatment.

That made my blood boil because you know there are 1000 women out there suffering real sexism in the workplace and elsewhere and she quite simply cheapened it.

Add to that the snotty way she got prissy when she didnt get her way and I thought "this, THIS is who we will be sending to Europe to renegotiate with the ECB/IMF????"

Perhaps they will give her a deal just to get away from that screeching patronisation.

Awful performance, yet more slippery avoidance of the question like every politician in the last 2 decades. Like a number of people, she lost Labour my vote.


DeV.

BostonB

I just can't listen to her, she has an awful monotonous speaking voice. I don't know what positive things she has done about anything. She seems to do a lot of talking but very little doing. Also her technique of drowning out opponents, suggests she has nothing of value to counter with. Her own website, doesn't really inspire confidence either. Its insipid. http://www.joanburton.ie/about

Magi11

Tazzle wrote: »

Personally I find her interactions on TV with other politicians/panel members very childish. The way I've seen her carry herself is not what I want in a representative. And seeing as she's deputy leader of Labour I find it impossible to vote for them.

Have to agree on the TV behaviour. She seems to spend most of her time on these shows highlighting that Sinn Fein voted with the original banking guarantee. Then the SF representative has to clarify the issue and another 3 minutes of maybe a 5 minute slot is wasted. Really am sick and tired of the mud slinging already.

UrbanSea

I missed the performance on Vincent Brown does anyone have a link?
I've hated her since that time she was on Prime Time with Pearse Doherty. She was such a rude,condescending cow. Totally up herself.

mccoist

she is very annoying and seems to think she is in power already.she reminds me of a typicallFF politician.She attacked FG and SF on VB show the other night and lenihan just sat there laughing his FF head off. He was allowed to make all his points clearly precisly without interruption. Considering the way FF have performed and the position she is going to have to start running country from she should be giving more consideration to this point and not be alienating people in such an arrogant manner.
FG and SF are not an enemy and she should even consider there maybe some merit in some of their policies

joan should forget your civil war politics and deal with the incompetent crowd in front of her. This country need a boot up the behind and not be playing out stereo typical politics.

Nehaxak

UrbanSea wrote: »

I missed the performance on Vincent Brown does anyone have a link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHTNTptUEe8

UrbanSea

Hmmm I don't think that's the real her :P

CuLT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSnCj_ApI94

cock robin

ilovesleep wrote: »

Why is there hatred for Labour's Joan Burton. I don't get it. She does not belong to the toxic FF party and she knows how to do her job.

Read this from Jan 2007. Labours - Joan Burton calling on FF's finiance minister - brian cowen to introduce measures to avoid serious trouble for Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055035918&highlight=finance+minster+joan

Becuase she talks through her hole. Her performance on VB where she was exposed either as a liar or in posession of a very selective memory was for her a terrible performance. When she was proved wrong she did not even apologise. We need less of these people representing our people.