Today's Irish Sun

deirdre_dub

The front page article on today's Irish Sun is titled "Trinity's sex swap prof", and the tagline is "A BOFFIN at the country's top university is a TRANSSEXUAL".

OMFG :eek: :eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
The reason why they've apparently picked on her is because when they phoned asking for her trans story, her response was "I don't do case studies".

LISTEN UP - you do not have any RIGHT to what is or isn't in my pants, and if I or anyone else says "no", then it means "NO".

This is a sick (and frighteningly childish, not to mention potentially dangerous) attempt to "punish" someone for saying "no".

deirdre_dub

TENI's response is here -

http://www.teni.ie/TENI_Press_Response

I'm sure there will be more from them as time goes on.

KnifeWRENCH

ZOMG! :eek: THINK OF THE CHILDREN etc.

In fairness it's the Sun. It's not like they're renowned for their balanced, well written opinion pieces or anything. It's sensationalist trash that will be forgotten about in a matter of days. If there's anything libellous or particularly distressing for her, I'm assuming she can take a libel case against them.

Actually, did anyone here watch Vincent Browne last night? He was doing the bit where they go through the morning's papers. All the other papers were about the dissolution of the Dáil (as one would expect) and when it came to the Sun, he just read out the headline, paused for a minute and said "So what? Who cares?" and threw it aside. Don't particularly like Vincent Browne but nice to see him give that trashy story the contempt it deserves.

Links234

is the article online anywhere?

Dr. Baltar

I was about to make a thread about this this morning but I couldn't find the article online and I didn't ahve time.

I went to Tesco today with my dad, and while he queued to get cigarettes I stood back at papers section. I saw the huge print on the cover of the sun and thought it was about a Professor who was having sex with his/her students or something.

Then I saw the bla bla bla "TRANSEXUAL" in all caps.

I literally just stood there in tesco and had an epiphany. As people walked by I stood there looking at that paper feeling so sad. So sad for transgendered kids everywhere. To think that stuff like this is headline news is just... it's just disgusting.

Links234

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

ZOMG! :eek: THINK OF THE CHILDREN etc.

In fairness it's the Sun. It's not like they're renowned for their balanced, well written opinion pieces or anything. It's sensationalist trash that will be forgotten about in a matter of days. If there's anything libellous or particularly distressing for her, I'm assuming she can take a libel case against them.

Actually, did anyone here watch Vincent Browne last night? He was doing the bit where they go through the morning's papers. All the other papers were about the dissolution of the Dáil (as one would expect) and when it came to the Sun, he just read out the headline, paused for a minute and said "So what? Who cares?" and threw it aside. Don't particularly like Vincent Browne but nice to see him give that trashy story the contempt it deserves.

while it might be a rag, I don't think these kinds of things should go unchallenged either

just going by the title/tagline, it's an absolutely horrible sentiment. it basically says that being transsexual is noteworthy, and it's implicit in this kind of reporting, that it's being presented as a negative. imagine if the article was "professor at top university is a HOMOSEXUAL!"

that kind of thing doesn't belong in any newspaper, it's just disgusting.

Azure_sky

The Sun makes for great toilet paper in these hard economic times.

hypersquirrel

That's bad even for the Sun. Anti-academic, anti trans and as far as I'm aware she's not a 'prof' so it's inaccurate as well.


What a load of sensationalist tripe.

Endymion

Links234 wrote: »

while it might be a rag, I don't think these kinds of things should go unchallenged either

just going by the title/tagline, it's an absolutely horrible sentiment. it basically says that being transsexual is noteworthy, and it's implicit in this kind of reporting, that it's being presented as a negative. imagine if the article was "professor at top university is a HOMOSEXUAL!"

that kind of thing doesn't belong in any newspaper, it's just disgusting.

The best way to challenge it is to ignore it. They want to be challenged, they want to enrage. That's what they want, people talking about the sun, people reading their crap, they don't care if you agree with it.

BanzaiBk

How is it news? Did the Irish Sun only find out about the T in lgbt now? Can't wait to read about tomorrow's "discovery".

*slow clap for the Irish Sun*

KnifeWRENCH

Links234 wrote: »

while it might be a rag, I don't think these kinds of things should go unchallenged either

just going by the title/tagline, it's an absolutely horrible sentiment. it basically says that being transsexual is noteworthy, and it's implicit in this kind of reporting, that it's being presented as a negative. imagine if the article was "professor at top university is a HOMOSEXUAL!"

that kind of thing doesn't belong in any newspaper, it's just disgusting.

Oh I'm not suggesting the article is acceptable at all. The point I was trying to make was the one Endymion made; ignoring it is the best form of attacking it. I'd have been much more worried if an article like that had appeared in a proper newspaper.

wonderfulname

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

It's sensationalist trash that will be forgotten about in a matter of days.

Of course it will but unfortunately it will also give silent support to unfounded prejudice.

LegacyUser

There was a similar case at Oxford University a few years ago -- the academic in question, also a classicist, was trailed around the town by tabloid reporters and was extremely distressed by the experience. I knew him as a man but he sometimes went as a woman; he was a brilliant teacher and researcher and should have been left alone.

I haven't seen the Sun article but it's terrible and awfully childish that the Sun should write this stuff. I hope radio and other media do the right thing and ignore it.

Louisevb

She may well have a case for invasion of privacy..under article 8 of the European Convention on Human Right. The tone and innuendo as written was absolutely disgusting, but the positive side to it has been the complete indifference of the rest of the population and the support Martine has been given in Trinity. So it's not entirely negative and I think the Sun may well have found it a non story as well in hindsight

diddlybit

The only thing that that article achieved was to prove what a hideous excuse for journalism that the Sun is. Seriously.

I'm not sure what editorial choices went into printing that article (let alone front page) but, as far as I know Sun readers ain't interested in that kind of stuff. Boobs and footballers threesomes seem to make up the majority of their copy.

Disgusting.

Rev Hellfire

diddlybit wrote: »

I'm not sure what editorial choices went into printing that article (let alone front page) but, as far as I know Sun readers ain't interested in that kind of stuff. Boobs and footballers threesomes seem to make up the majority of their copy.

Actually this is a case of giving their readers exactly what they want, which is making a spectacle of them what is different than us.

Links234

I've read the full article, and it is absolutely vile! they make awful puns, calling her "Helen of Boy" and say in bold capital letters, "CHOP OFF THE CLASS" and then have a little bit about Rebecca DeHaveland with the line "Sex-snip op saved my life"

it's just a seriously nasty article,

deirdre_dub

Check out Vincent Browne's response to the article -

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview&video=31912

It's at 48 minutes in - you should be able to "fast-forward" to using the slider at the bottom of the video. Also, one of the panelists has an appropriate sarcastic response to the article.

Vanessa Lacey did an interview yesterday on Newstalk. Go to http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/tom-dunne/listen-back/ Play part 1 of Thursday's show - her interview is at about 37 minutes.

Louisevb

However much vile there is, the fact remains that the article is factually correct. They have been careful not to be inaccurate as a press complaint could be nailed on them. The tone is appalling indeed, but in any complaint that would be taken it can only be on grounds of privacy as I've already said. One of the consequences of a sound gender recognition act would be that this type of article would be illegal as it would be an offense for a another party to expose someone in this manner.

shoegirl

It wouldn't be the first time they've done this. At least post op person has innocently done an interview with them only to find tripe like ME MA IS NOW ME DA plastered across it. People need to be very careful when talking to gutter media, they are desperate for any bit of sensation and since most folk know little about gender identity and probably haven't met anybody who they know is, it's an easy target.

Trouble is, there only needs to be one or two people out there who are a bit vulnerable or looking for attention and their lives could be made a misery by this kind of reporting. It's the insinuations and the overall message of "look at the freak, he thinks he's a woman" that is very harmful.

Louisevb

A few years ago... a friend was in court, and after the case, which was very minor a Gard gave the Sun her mobile number... She was hounded for over a month for a story, but had the good sense to ignore it. The Gard broke confidentiality and could have been taken up for it...For the sake of peace it was let drop. Again a GRA would stop this kind of thing happening if correctly drafted along with Data protection and FOI legislation.

Eebs

I'd like to appeal to boards members to maybe consider removing the person in questions name from this thread and their own posts. As another poster pointed out this thread does show up on google and it would make you a good trans ally.

deirdre_dub

Eebs wrote: »

I'd like to appeal to boards members to maybe consider removing the person in questions name from this thread and their own posts.

OK - but I don't seem to be able to edit my posts anymore?

Rev Hellfire

deirdre_dub wrote: »

OK - but I don't seem to be able to edit my posts anymore?

There's a set window of time in which you can edit your posts.

stephen_n

I suppose the one saving grace is most people who read that rag, read it from the back page to the middle and then bin it!

Eebs

stephen_n wrote: »

I suppose the one saving grace is most people who read that rag, read it from the back page to the middle and then bin it!

Edit: I want to clarify this comment is NOT directed at stephen_n. It's more and observation of the response that many are giving that is 'it's the sun/daily fail etc.'

Dismissing this as tabloid crap is all very tempting however I want to bring up the point that this kind of article will always put the target in real physical danger. As well as danger of losing their job, their friends, their life, outing someone in this manner is totally unacceptable, I don't care what kind of paper. I feel like dismissing this is condoning it. That said, I do think that you can respond to this without giving it any credit. Example being TENIs response. TENI use the article to try highlight gender recognition and while I like this approach I'm just going to point out the impact and fall out to the wider trans community form this article has been vast. Many people I think who read it had a very real feeling of 'I could be targeted'. The person in question did NOTHING to provoke this and yet was a two page spread focus of hatred in a magazine. Before you dismiss that please put yourself on the front cover of the Sun, because that's how I feel, like it could have been me.

deirdre_dub

Eebs wrote: »

Many people I think who read it had a very real feeling of 'I could be targeted'. The person in question did NOTHING to provoke this and yet was a two page spread focus of hatred in a magazine.

Well, she did, in a way, do something to provoke it - she told the reporter that she wasn't going to give him the transition story that he was looking for! She had every damn right to say "no" to him - him using his position to "punish" her (in a potentially dangerous way, as you say) for saying "no" is f**king disgusting.

Before you dismiss that please put yourself on the front cover of the Sun, because that's how I feel, like it could have been me.

To be honest, part of the reason why she was targetted was because she is a trans activist - she probably wouldn't have come to the attention of the reporter had she not been in that position. So I think most trans people are "safe" in that sense. But, of course, it still could, in theory, happen to any one of us.

I wouldn't get in a panic over this. I don't know if the she has had any threats or anything, but I do know that her students are fully behind her. Heck - I'm living in an apartment where anonymous threats have been shoved under the door. The guards have been notified, I believe they may have identified the cuprit(s) and talked to them, and that has been the end of it. These people are cowards, they know that they are in the minority, and they know that the rest of society will come down on them like a ton of bricks if they do anything other than cowardly acts with their hatred.

Ireland isn't as bad for trans people as you might think, and it certainly isn't anywhere near as bad as it could be. I saw a documentary on Uganda yesterday - OMFG! :eek: In Uganda, these people are in the majority, and society is pretty much fully behind them and their hatred.

Eebs

do something to provoke it

Bring involved in an equality organisation and saying no to an interview that she did not go looking for is not provoking anything. It's living your life quite normally.

Honestly I think she was targeted because she has a career. So yes, I do think it could be me someday (fingers crossed I get a decent job).

deirdre_dub

Eebs wrote: »

Bring involved in an equality organisation and saying no to an interview that she did not go looking for is not provoking anything.

I agree - I hope that the way that I said that I believe her saying "no" was actually what motivated the article didn't imply that I believe it was in any way her fault. It most certainly wasn't her fault.

Honestly I think she was targeted because she has a career.

I don't think so. First of all, the article mentions her "no" a number of times, and it sounded to me as if the reporter was p*ssed off at that "no". Second, there are other members of the TENI board who have careers that he could have picked on.

deirdre_dub

Eebs wrote: »

Honestly I think she was targeted because she has a career.

So you think that this reporter goes around looking for transgender people who have a career with a view to outing them on the front page of the paper? There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of targets for him!

I could probably mention at least a dozen transgender people I know who have careers.

KnifeWRENCH

deirdre_dub wrote: »

So you think that this reporter goes around looking for transgender people who have a career with a view to outing them on the front page of the paper? There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of targets for him!

I could probably mention at least a dozen transgender people I know who have careers.

I'd imagine she was targetted because she has such a high profile career. A lecturer at Ireland's "most prestigious" university is quite a desirable career. Rags like the Sun jump for joy at the prospect at finding "dirt" on such people, and unfortunately there's a demographic out there that would see her being transgender as "dirt".

If you'll excuse me for being a cynical academic snob to try and gain the perspective of a tabloid hack, I reckon there would have been nothing to report if the woman was a lecturer at a "less prestigious" institute.

To try and think of another example; if a top surgeon at Crumlin Children's Hospital was transgender there could be a similar article, whereas a doctor at a smaller hospital being transgender wouldn't be as much of a story (again, in the mind of sensationalist hacks trying to flog papers by making issues of stuff like this.)

This is entirely speculative btw; you (or others reading this thread) may disagree completely!

deirdre_dub

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I'd imagine she was targetted because she has such a high profile career. A lecturer at Ireland's "most prestigious" university is quite a desirable career. .... snip ... I reckon there would have been nothing to report if the woman was a lecturer at a "less prestigious" institute.

Sorry - I still don't see it that way. Take, for instance, a trans woman who works in a supermarket. If this particular reporter took a dislike to her, I have no doubt that he would "out" her, taking the "won't someone please think of the children that this thing comes into contact with as she stacks shelves in this supermarket" angle.

Nope - we are all "targets" for this crap . The only thing I can say is that at least there is safety in numbers!

Rags like the Sun jump for joy at the prospect at finding "dirt" on such people

Rags like the Sun jump for joy at the prospect of dirt period.

and unfortunately there's a demographic out there that would see her being transgender as "dirt".

And that is the core of the problem. The job doesn't matter as much as the dirt matters. If they see a transgender lecturer as "dirt", then they also see a transgender supermarket shelf-stacker as "dirt".