Irish people never stand up for what's right :(

Fukuyama

Why is it?

I was having a conversation with my mate today and we both agreed that Irish people never seem to stand up for the little guy against scumbags.

We've all seen security guards being hassled by big groups, or scumbags harrasing people on busses etc... even getting physical.

I can count three occasion where I've observed foreign nationals (eastern european blokes two times and an American the other) stepping in to help someone in trouble out.

The first was in a Mac Donalds when the security guard was getting pushed around by a group of around 15 lads (scum). Another on a bus when a junkie was starting on some small fella with his gf.

The most recent being outside my local mace. Group of around 20 scumbags hanging around. Started kicking the shutters. One of them (looked around 20 - bit sad tbh) tried to ram his bike into the shop at the security guard when this polish fella step in front of him and cloths-lined him off the bike (epic) and ****ed him back outside.

Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation. Myself included.

Shame on us...

AnonoBoy

They do love a good generalisation based on three incidents that they witnessed though.

mikom

Dean0088 wrote: »

Irish people
eastern european
an American
polish fella

You work in passport control..... right?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

But you started a thread on boards baout it! FFS, what else do people want??

Alter-Ego

Hang back, don't be seen, don't be heard and you might just get out of this world alive.

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2OR6Kjo5m4

We need our own version of this lad. He fights for the rights of EVERYMAN.

That's a lot of men.

Donal Og O Baelach

We're like a nation of David Attenboroughs.

hondasam

Dean0088 wrote: »

Why is it?

I was having a conversation with my mate today and we both agreed that Irish people never seem to stand up for the little guy against scumbags.

We've all seen security guards being hassled by big groups, or scumbags harrasing people on busses etc... even getting physical.

I can count three occasion where I've observed foreign nationals (eastern european blokes two times and an American the other) stepping in to help someone in trouble out.

The first was in a Mac Donalds when the security guard was getting pushed around by a group of around 15 lads (scum). Another on a bus when a junkie was starting on some small fella with his gf.

The most recent being outside my local mace. Group of around 20 scumbags hanging around. Started kicking the shutters. One of them (looked around 20 - bit sad tbh) tried to ram his bike into the shop at the security guard when this polish fella step in front of him and cloths-lined him off the bike (epic) and ****ed him back outside.

Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation. Myself included.

Shame on us...

you are assuming because you have never helped anyone that no body has helped.

Fukuyama

hondasam wrote: »

you are assuming because you have never helped anyone that no body has helped.

I have helped someone once... whilst cacking myself doing it.

But in general I think most Irish people would rather stare at their big mac than confront the elephant in the room restaurant.

hondasam

Dean0088 wrote: »

I have helped someone once... whilst cacking myself doing it.

But in general I think most Irish people would rather stare at their big mac than confront the elephant in the room restaurant.

depends on the situation.

mikom

Dean0088 wrote: »

I have helped someone once... whilst cacking myself doing it.

But in general I think most Irish people would rather stare at their big mac than confront the elephant in the room restaurant.

I'm lovin' it.

hondasam

mikom wrote: »

I'm lovin' it.

where is ronald when you need him :pac:

Azureus

My fella got jumped by a gang of English lads in Spain and a lovely Northern Irish bloke stepped in (having never met us, and while a pub full of people just watched) and helped him. So I dont agree ...

(I dont think he was aware what nationality any of us were at this stage either so it wasnt some mad politcal aggression causing him to help either :P )

lucozader

i think the schools have ruined irish people

in school teachers just look the other way when bullying goes on

if you stand up for someone else or yourself in school they teachers either ignore the situation or punish the good guy

you are conditioned in school that it is best to just ignore violence/scumbaggery because you just get into trouble if you do something about it. and the teachers are morons who will punish the wrong person or punish you for doing the right thing.

i can only imagine that in polish schools, teachers might actually care and support the good guy that stands up to scumbags. it certainly doesn't happen in ireland.

stateofflux

i think a lot of people want to ...but i know if try to help some poor chap who's getting mugged by 20 skangs...ill be the new victim and no one will help out...ive seen it happen too many times to risk my life....they have screwdrivers....you have morals....i could'nt be bothered anymore

Dudess

Including you OP.

RichieC

it's a human thing, not an Irish thing, look at the money spent annually on weapons and death machines while 21% of the planet live in extreme poverty.

Seems to be fashionable round here to make the Irish into some exceptionally bad culture, in reality we are nowhere near the worst.

Fukuyama

RichieC wrote: »

it's a human thing, not an Irish thing, look at the money spent annually on weapons and death machines while 21% of the planet live in extreme poverty.

Seems to be fashionable round here to make the Irish into some exceptionally bad culture, in reality we are nowhere near the worst.

From what I can see, and through knowing in particular eastern europeans, they seem to be more willing to put there balls on the line.

Fukuyama

Dudess wrote: »

Including you OP.

I admitted that readily in my post.

Plus I have on occasion stepped in, all be it while bricking it and attempt to actually talk to some ****ing scumbag, confused him a little and then they all left... In all liklihood my face coulda been caved in but for some reason they decided to spare me the random beating they doled out seconds earlier....

hondasam

Dean0088 wrote: »

I admitted that readily in my post.

Plus I have on occasion stepped in, all be it while bricking it and attempt to actually talk to some ****ing scumbag, confused him a little and then they all left... In all liklihood my face coulda been caved in but for some reason they decided to spare me the random beating they doled out seconds earlier....

"Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation. Myself included.

Shame on us"

This is what you said at the start, are you changing your mind ?

Fukuyama

hondasam wrote: »

"Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation. Myself included.

Shame on us"

This is what you said at the start, are you changing your mind ?

I meant I never got physical. As in I never went in a sorted some scumbags out oldskool.

But I have stepped in and somehow managed not to get the **** kicked out of me...

Jaxxy

You can't generalise like that OP just because both yourself and your friend(s) agreed that this was the case during a single discussion. I've often seen and had Irish men come to my aid in the past.

up for anything

Dean0088 wrote: »

Never have I seen an Irish fella step into a situation.

That's because you have us Irish mammies to do it for you. I've butted into situations more times than I can count. Usually lads fighting/messing on the street. The last time was a couple of months ago. I was with my kids and heading into the nearby shopping centre when I saw three lads scuffling, two of them knocked the other one down and began kicking him while he lay on the ground and protected his head with his arms. Before I knew it I was running towards them yelling at them to stop it and beside me were two other women (strangers) also wading in. The two lads scarpered and the young lad on the ground got up and left pretty quickly before security arrived. It was kind of funny because he was the older brother of my one of my son's best friends. I think he was worried I'd tell his dad.

I've also been known to screech to a halt on the road (having checked in my mirror for cars behind me) and get out to yell at lads picking on a smaller boy. Why is it that bigger lads in a crowd think it's ok to 'jokingly' hammer the smallest/youngest guy in the group and he takes it because it makes him one of the lads. I usually get a few '**** off, missus, it's none of your business' comments but nothing more threatening than that.

When I was growing up you didn't pass trouble of any sort by. Nowadays people are conditioned not to interfere because they might get more than a smack. I'd love a kukri - I'd become Charlene Bronson if I had one of those.

RussellTuring

I think most people would not only be afraid of getting hurt themselves, but of escalating the level of violence and getting both themselves and the original victim hurt worse than might have happened had they looked away.

I have on more than one occasion stepped-in to help someone who was in trouble and have at times gotten punished for it myself. However, if I see someone in trouble and I think I can help, I'll do it. Not only for that person but to be seen to do it. I'd like to think that if I were in that situation, someone else would help me and by being seen to help out someone else, I might change other people's attitudes, even if not very likely.

OP, if you really feel how you say then next time you see one of these incidents happening, maybe you should ignore that voice of self-preservation in your head screaming at you to cover your own backside and make a stand. You may very well get your head kicked-in but at least you can say you've tried. If you'd rather not risk your own safety then you'll get no criticism from me but don't feel like you have the right to criticise others who feel as you do.

Edit: Oh I'm Irish, by the way.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Iv stood up for the little guy plenty of times. Id imagine a lot of people have too. Just because you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

I have been the little guy on a few occasions too, and I believe you should always stand up for yourself no matter what the situation.

ascanbe

lucozader wrote: »

i think the schools have ruined irish people

in school teachers just look the other way when bullying goes on

if you stand up for someone else or yourself in school they teachers either ignore the situation or punish the good guy

you are conditioned in school that it is best to just ignore violence/scumbaggery because you just get into trouble if you do something about it. and the teachers are morons who will punish the wrong person or punish you for doing the right thing.

i can only imagine that in polish schools, teachers might actually care and support the good guy that stands up to scumbags. it certainly doesn't happen in ireland.

You attended every school in the country, did you?

Taco Corp

RussellTuring wrote: »

I think most people would not only be afraid of getting hurt themselves, but of escalating the level of violence and getting both themselves and the original victim hurt worse than might have happened had they looked away.

This plus the fact that the good guy so often gets screwed in this country whereas the bad guy often gets away with it.

Gneez

I've never stuck my neck out for anybody or helped anyone in trouble but that's most likely because I'm from Limerick and filled with hatred than any other reason.

lucozader

ascanbe wrote: »

You attended every school in the country, did you?

are you a school teacher ? Either that or a bullying scumbag. One or the other.

ascanbe

lucozader wrote: »

are you a school teacher ? Either that or a bullying scumbag. One or the other.

Definitely not one and pretty sure i'm not the other.
Have a relative who is a teacher, though.
Just feel that you shouldn't tar an entire profession with the same brush. That might have been your experience in an Irish school: and if it was, it shouldn't have been.
Not right to label all teachers as being the same on that basis, though.

starbelgrade

I once saw a scumbag snatch an elderly woman's purse, so I drove after him & as he was running across the road, I knocked him over & recovered the purse.

Well, actually he wasn't exactly a scumbag & he didn't really rob a purse, but he was crossing the road & I did run him over.

Auldloon

Yes I have often stood up for the little guy. Sometimes taking a hiding for it as well and on one occasion my then girlfriend also got a hiding.... The woman we had come to defend meanwhile left the scene without a backwards glance. Getting a bit old for it now so I must admit nowadays I would just walk by:o

RichieC

starbelgrade wrote: »

I once saw a scumbag snatch an elderly woman's purse, so I drove after him & as he was running across the road, I knocked him over & recovered the purse.

Well, actually he wasn't exactly a scumbag & he didn't really rob a purse, but he was crossing the road & I did run him over.

Dam fine excuse though, sir.

Wolfe Tone

OP must have missed the whole history of irish revolutionaries standing up for what was right

starbelgrade

RichieC wrote: »

Dam fine excuse though, sir.

I actually came up with the excuse before I ran him over.

Not that I needed the motivation or anything.

Scuid Mhór

ascanbe wrote: »

Definitely not one and pretty sure i'm not the other.
Have a relative who is a teacher, though.
Just feel that you shouldn't tar an entire profession with the same brush. That might have been your experience in an Irish school: and if it was, it shouldn't have been.
Not right to label all teachers as being the same on that basis, though.

yeah, this thread was brought to another level of ridiculousness with lucozader's generalisations. don't mind him, ascanbe.

also i stand up for what's right. rarely does it escalate to a physical level though. solving things with words is always a good idea but there's times when i've been waiting in line for something and these lads start on another group of lads and the only thing you can do is choose a side and hope you chose the right one just in case they're about to do serious damage to each other. way i see it is i'd rather get punched then have to sleep that night, wondering if i could have stopped a knife being brandished.

if you know what i mean.

mikemac

Worked in hotels so walking home from work sober and seeing the messing in Eyre Sq

Ever step in when a couple are arguing on the street and the guy slaps the girl?
I tried to be the gentlemen and step in and they both turned on me :rolleyes:
How dare I go near "my fella" I was screeched at

So much for being helpful, I wasn't expecting thanks but then I wasn't expecting the girl to turn on me
This was in Galway, from them on a call to Mill St Garda Station was the only stepping in I'd do. And I mostly walked on by

WindSock

Oh there are plenty of people out there just waiting for the right opportunity to stand up for 'what is right'
These are often scumbags too, but waiting for someone to do something so they can give them a good self righteous hiding and get hero status after. They say that they were standing up for the victim, but in reality they were just as gunning for a fight themselves.

Fukuyama

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

OP must have missed the whole history of irish revolutionaries standing up for what was right

Mmmm....

WindSock

feelingstressed wrote: »

Worked in hotels so walking home from work sober and seeing the messing in Eyre Sq

Ever step in when a couple are arguing on the street and the guy slaps the girl?
I tried to be the gentlemen and step in and they both turned on me :rolleyes:
How dare I go near "my fella" I was screeched at

Really, unless she (or he) are getting the shit pummeled out of them, better to leave them to it.

man.about.town

i agree with the OP

nkay1985

I think there are a couple of reasons why people don't jump into a fight on the little guy's side. One is that 99% of the time you won't have been there for what preceded the fight so you don't know did he deserve a dig. Another is the fear that you might end up getting an awful hiding when you were only trying to calm things down. And imagine if the second one followed the first and you got a beating because you stepped into a situation where you probably didn't have to.

But I have to say that I wouldn't hesitate if one of my brothers or friends was started on because I know they're not the type to bring trouble on themselves. Thankfully it's never happened.

I did see a lad get two kicks to the head outside a chipper tonight on my way home from work. Massive crowd out in town and I heard some drunken lads (hammered college students) getting all excited because there was a fight. Looked out and one lad was kind of sitting up on the ground and took two kicks. Strangely enough there didn't seem to be much to it after that. The lad who kicked him walked off with his friends and the fella got up off the ground and walked away under his own steam. Who knows what it was over! The fella kicking him was a definite scummer though.

merlie

People these days may not be so willing as to step in where help is needed as they don't know what they may be getting themselves into. Who knows if a knife or syringe would be used on them. It is fear that keeps many from lending a hand so to speak and it is understandable, it is often hard to assess a situation and deem it ok to intervene. At the end of the day it is all down to the individual and the situation.

guitarzero

Id have to agree

Irish folk have turn out to be a bit spineless on all fronts, whether its intervening in those situations, political issues or merely voicing a real opinion. My mates have come back to me with stories like this and laughing about it, I dont see them anymore.

I think they prefer to laugh it off, just like, keep laughing and joking and laughing it off until they scrunch it into a little ball and then when they're a bit pissed they can go on a nighlink and repeat the ordeal themselves.

Keep on laughing paddy, ah sure ye have te' laugh paddy.

keepkeyyellow

I hate to say it but unless it was one of my nearest and dearest getting the bating I'd stay away, mainly cause I know full and well I'd be useless in a fight.

Doc

In the situations you described OP one person steeping in to help would have done nothing.

1 guy V’s 20 guys = very bad situation for the one guy.

1 guy + me V’s 20 guys = a very bad situation for both the one guy and me.

If you get involved in a situation like that unless you know the guys attacking the guy and can talk them into stopping joining in won’t help anyone. You will get just as bad a kicking from 20 people as you will from 10.

Plus in the situations you have said no one seemed to be in any real danger so coming in fists flying may only worsen the situation.

Also in a lot of situations you simply don’t know what’s happened.

Say your walking down the street and see two guys fighting one other guy.

Should you jump in and help the one guy without knowing why they are fighting?

I know a guy who was punched in the back of the head after coming out of a club and had his phone snatched out of his hand his mate saw and chased after the guy and cornered him. The guy who originally got punched ran after them and finding the two fighting joined in to get his phone back.

If you were just walking past you might think you should help the thief as it would look like he was the one getting mugged.

Having said all this I have gotten involved in a couple of different situations on a number of occasions. One was on the top beck of a night bus home one night were a scumbag got on and started abusing a really small guy who was out with his girlfriend. I’m not a big guy myself but I figured I had a much better chance then the guy he was picking on and kind of hoped that If he started on me the other guy might help. So I told him to leave them alone that they weren’t doing him any harm. The scumbag turned and started abusing me but a couple of other guys and girls on the bus who had probably been thinking the same thing as me started telling him to shut up and f off. soon everyone was abusing him and he moved downstairs. Often in these situations it only takes one person to speak up and it turns out everyone else feels the same way but thinks someone else will act.

If you know something is wrong and that you can help I think you should but each person has to make that call themselves and I wouldn’t blame anyone for not steeping in.

seanybiker

I stepped in a few times. Never anything mental where i needed to put on my bandana and go medieval or anything. Never seen anything really bad happen so i don't know what I would do.
Some people are scared to try help and there is nothing wrong with that. It's not irrational to be scared to jump in so I don't see the point of giving out about people who walk by and not do anything.

Noreen1

ascanbe wrote: »

Definitely not one and pretty sure i'm not the other.
Have a relative who is a teacher, though.
Just feel that you shouldn't tar an entire profession with the same brush. That might have been your experience in an Irish school: and if it was, it shouldn't have been.
Not right to label all teachers as being the same on that basis, though.

You should ask your relative what the Dept of Education advises re: schoolground fights.

I was told a few years ago, by a teacher, that they were obliged to treat both "combatants" the same.
I asked "Does that not deny the victim his/her basic human right to self-defence?". It hadn't occurred to the teacher, so ,I told them that my advise to my children was "Don't start a fight, don't be a bully - but if someone hits you - hit them back!".
The teacher didn't seem very pleased!

suicide_circus

I know what youre saying op but I simply dont trust
a) that the scum will not by carrying a screwdriver / syringe
b) that the justice system will find in my favour if I do open a can of whoop-ass on said scum.

This country is full scobies, scangers, scumbags, yobos and hooligans with hundreds of convictions, walking free, who will have no hesitation in kicking me to death, living off the social welfare I provide through taxes by breaking my bollix every day in work and then they subsidizing this income through theft, burglary and muggings and our judicial system will invariably find in their favour if I give them a beating. **** that tbh.

mickydoomsux

No way in hell i'm getting involved in someone elses beating. You're just asking to get a screwdriver to the guts or get kicked into a coma/to death.

Even if you can get the situation under control and the police arrive you'll be facing one side or the other of an assault case against scum who you really don't want knowing your name, address, family etc. You'll never have a normal life again because you'll be constantly harrased by scum who have nothing better to do with their lives and all the time in the world to do it.

Not worth it. Keep your head down and keep moving. Life is about surviving, not being the hero of the day.

david75

Have twice jumped in when i've seen this happen, gang of lads starting on/beating up a guy on his own semingly for no reason and both times i came off the worse for it and it's largely thankless. Don't think it'd stop me doing it again but i'd definitely asess the situation and look around for some sort of help/gardai before i did.