Baxi Solo 3 PFL50-strong smell on ignition for 15mins???

pathogan2008

I have a Baxi Solo 3 PFL 50 (GC 41-075-22) gas boiler.
I had it serviced for the first time in November 2010 by a RGI.
It had been running perfectly for the past number of years, but I wanted to be sure it was clean and ready for the cold weather.

The day after the service, I noticed the following problem:
A strong smell just after the boiler fires up, that lasts for about 10-15 minutes, then clears once the boiler is good and hot.
This does not smell like natural gas, but rather more like combusted dirty gas.
If the boiler has been off for a few hours and cools down, and comes back on, the smell returns for another 10-15 minutes as before etc.

I called back the RGI, and he said that all looked fine with the combustion box and everything that was cleaned in the service.
He took a carbon monoxide reading in the room over 30 minutes with a meter and it showed CO levels rising to 3ppm.
The problem of the strong smell persisted though, and he returned a number of times but could not find a fault.
He has resealed the gasket where the boiler meets the flue, but this has not cured the smell.
The flue through the wall appears to be perfect with no obvious path for the exhaust gas to come back in.
RGI checked this using a smoke pellet.
Has anyone here come across this problem before? Is it common on Baxi power flue boilers?
Is there anything I can do apart from replacing this boiler? I am not happy with this smell.
Is there a dedicated Baxi service team in Ireland that can advise on this - or am I better off contacting the UK?

Hoping someone can help please
PH

Micky Dolenz

Get the service person back ASAP. Most likely a problem with the flame rectification probe, it may have been disturbed during servicing. This may lead to explosive ignition within the combustion chamber causing damage to other parts there.

pathogan2008

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Get the service person back ASAP. Most likely a problem with the flame rectification probe, it may have been disturbed during servicing. This may lead to explosive ignition within the combustion chamber causing damage to other parts there.

Thanks Mickey.
The manual for the Baxi Solo 3 PFL 50 (GC 41-075-22) can be found here.

http://www.aroundtownflats.com/manuals/Boilers/Baxi/Solo3%20PFL.pdf

I don't see the rectification probe mentioned. Is it the electrode you mean?

Alex M

ask your rgi to check the seals on the combustion cover, they are spongy when new but can become perished, or if the boiler hasnt been serviced for a time can stick to the boiler casing and tear when removed. easy to check.
combustion covers on solo's also warp over time, when removed they can go out shape slightly, hard to see but you will hear the woosh ( technical expression ) forcing its way through any gaps at ignition .

yoshytoshy

There really shouldn't be any CO reading at the boiler.

esox28

"post high jacking"

where can I get manuals for gas boilers?


ESOX you know your suppose to raise a new thread to ask a question but as the question has been asked please read the charter and do it right the next time. Its not necessary to reply to this message and carry it on. Thanks

Alex M

most manufacturers websites

pathogan2008

Okay, the RGI is returning on Friday.

From the suggestions on this thread, I am going to ask him to check the following:
check the seals on the combustion cover for tears or cracks
check that the combustion cover hasn't warped over time
check the flame rectification probe (Does the Solo have one?)

Is there anything else to check while he is there?
I really want to cure this problem asap.

heinbloed

The OP has observed the following:

He took a carbon monoxide reading over 30 minutes with a meter and it only showed CO levels rising to 3ppm.

The service man is dangerous, he shouldn't have left you with these CO values ( 3ppm).

Get a different one and complain to the organisation he claims he belongs to.

Get a protocoll from your service man, signed.

Note that I'm not a plumber. Ask a real plumber for advise. As far as I know the CO reading should be well above 10 ppm, propably 12 ppm.

And forget the clown's post claiming there shouldn't be any CO reading.

Micky Dolenz

heinbloed wrote: »

The OP has observed the following:



The service man is dangerous, he shouldn't have left you with these CO values ( 3ppm).

Get a different one and complain to the organisation he claims he belongs to.

Get a protocoll from your service man, signed.

Note that I'm not a plumber. Ask a real plumber for advise. As far as I know the CO reading should be well above 10 ppm, propably 12 ppm.

And forget the clown's post claiming there shouldn't be any CO reading.

Lets not confuse CO with CO2, his CO2 reading should be around 9 - 12%. There may be low levels of CO at the flue, maybe over 12 ppm.

From my understanding the Service person took a CO reading in the room. If so, and since this is a room sealed appliance, the reading should be 0 ppm. If there is a reading, the boiler case seals are compromised and need to be look at again.

Also, please take it handy on the clown talk, it doesn't encourage reasonable discussion.

slavetothegrind

heinbloed follow your own advice and don't post about things you know little about and quit abusing posters who in this case know more than yourself.

hard enough to read your pontificating when you are right.

heinbloed

The OP wrote:

He took a carbon monoxide reading in the room over 30 minutes with a meter and it showed CO levels rising to 3ppm.

And Micky Dolenz wrote:

From my understanding the Service person took a CO reading in the room. If so, and since this is a room sealed appliance, the reading should be 0 ppm. If there is a reading, the boiler case seals are compromised and need to be look at again.

Also, please take it handy on the clown talk,...

We take it handy on the clown talk, promised.

A room reading of 3 ppm is certainly no sign of a leaking gasket, it's about average.
See here:

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/co.html

Now, some know it better, sure, and are willing to put their "knowledge" on stage.
The reading should have been done in the flue-gas. And being protocolled.
If a natural gas pollution/leak has to be checked then certainly not with a CO meter. But with a methane detector.

JohnnieK

heinbloed wrote: »

The OP has observed the following:


Note that I'm not a plumber. Ask a real plumber for advise. As far as I know the CO reading should be well above 10 ppm, propably 12 ppm.

That would be for a flue gas analyses and can be more if stated by the manufacturer.

A room test should be 0ppm because the appliance is sealed (supposed to be) You have a very valid point about the guy leaving and not isolating the appliance.

heinbloed

Using a flue gas analyser to determine the CO value of air works only within the default range of the analyser.

According to my recherche about this interesting topic the better flue gas analysers have a default of + - 5 ppm ( if CO < 100ppm !)

The cheaper ones have a default of +- 20 ppm (if CO < 100ppm)

A plumber who is using a flue gas analyser should not joke about the client's concerns. Telling him that a room reading of 3ppm done with a flue gas analyser is serious work, can be charged for is like reading the values from a crystall ball - and charging money for it !

The natural CO content of our atmosphere is 0.5%

A Zero reading shows that the instrument is faulty resp. useless.
Like saying the earth is a flat disk because of the spirit level readings, idiotic.

Check again the EPA link here:


http://www.epa.gov/iaq/co.html


It is perfect normal to have CO readings in a room of 0.5-5 ppm !

A reading of 3ppm is by no means a reason to act.

A zero reading MUST be faulty. No plumber should charge a client for remedial works when a reading of 3 ppm CO is the only reason to act.
If there is a leak in the combustion/flue expected other sensors have to be used. The CO reading is useless for this purpose, dangerous and only used to drain the pocket of the client.

The OP propably paid the plumber for his works. Doing a reading of 3ppm CO for half an hour and equipped with this "value" installing a new gasket is a rip-off. Esp. since the source of the smell wasn't found nor fixed.
The OP should demand his money back and complain to the authorities, the plumber who had done this job should be taken from the list of reliable installers/certifiers. Immediatly.

FUNKY LOVER

heinbloed wrote: »

The OP has observed the following:



The service man is dangerous, he shouldn't have left you with these CO values ( 3ppm).

Get a different one and complain to the organisation he claims he belongs to.

Get a protocoll from your service man, signed.

Note that I'm not a plumber. Ask a real plumber for advise. As far as I know the CO reading should be well above 10 ppm, propably 12 ppm.

And forget the clown's post claiming there shouldn't be any CO reading.

here you say its dangerous,then you say its normal in a later post

heinbloed

FUNKY LOVER wrote:

here you say its dangerous,then you say its normal in a later post

Nothing confusing about it except my bad English.

Explanation:

The organised plumber read 3ppm CO in the room. Said that's o.k. and left the scene, the problem declared non-existent, being normal. Which he had caused during his previous visit, it was still there when he left. Instead of isolating the device he gave the client a "reading" . The man is propably illiterate, he doesn't understand the manual of his flue gas analyser.

Declaring that a room reading of 3ppm CO is o.k. without having a suitable tool to measure it (!!!) is dangerous. Note that the inaccuracy of flue-gas analysers do not allow for a meassurement concerning health and safety in a room.
These instruments are simply not designed to be used as a compass saying the airquality in a room is o.k. or not.
They are flue gas analysers, very crude instruments. Nothing else.

A professional health and safety officer accepting a room air quality analysis made with a flue gas analyser would go to jail. At least he would be strucked-off the list of compenent staff and will have trouble to find a new job in the health and safety bussiness, no way to get a professional indemnity insurance ever again after slandering his own name.

I'm not at all confused why plumbers claim that a room reading of 0 ppm CO should be achieved. They simply don't understand what they're doing.

yoshytoshy

heinbloed wrote: »

FUNKY LOVER wrote:




Nothing confusing about it except my bad English.

Explanation:

The organised plumber read 3ppm CO in the room.

But he didn't ,he took a reading around the boiler. I've never got any CO reading in a room ,ever.
You'll get small readings when checking open gas fires and some old gas boilers. And thats the reason why we check the boiler.

You've a downright cheek advising people on this forum ,when you probably don't even own a set of screwdrivers.

heinbloed

heinbloed wrote: »

Note that I'm not a plumber. .

Funny how you keep butting heads with people who do it for a living.

JohnnieK

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

here you say its dangerous,then you say its normal in a later post

Your adding fuel to the fire FUNKY LOVER

heinbloed

Gary71 wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by heinbloed
Note that I'm not a plumber. .

Funny how you keep butting heads with people who do it for a living.

For a living ?!

See http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0121/limerick_garda.html

If these two men had used a methan detector their life would be easier....

Antiquo

I wonder if the OP will come on here asking for advice again :rolleyes: Trust you got it sorted though.

heinbloed

heinbloed wrote: »

Gary71 wrote:



For a living ?!

See http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0121/limerick_garda.html

If these two men had used a methan detector their life would be easier....

And that connected to the other posters on here how?

It was my living as a emergency gas engineer for many years to be the first on site to reported gas escapes/gas explosions and deal with the situation, so i can give you a professional opinion on gas safety if you wish.

heinbloed

@ gary71:

Your advise is needed here:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168939

(How to use propane bottles safely in confined space)

JohnnieK

Flue Gas Analysers are by far a crude instrument. Where is your professional evidence of such statement?

heinbloed

JohnnieK states and asks :

Flue Gas Analysers are by far a crude instrument. Where is your professional evidence of such statement?

They are. Your professional statement about the accuracy of messurement results with your flue gas analyser please, brand and type.
Post it in a new thread, my suggestion for the title would be " Flue gas analysers: what are they designed for and what are their limits "

So please open a new thread and come forward with what you know and your questions.
We are all willing to learn from profound knowledge.

yoshytoshy

heinbloed wrote: »

We are all willing to learn from profound knowledge.

You're full of beans heinzmeister. Smells like it anyways.

Micky Dolenz

Ok, Time to shut this down.

heinbloed, Let me take this opportunity to give you, your one and only warning.

You either address the other contributors in this forum with respect or I will ban you. You sarky attitude does not fit in around here. It's you, not us.

So play nice and we'll all get on dandy.