Try a masters abroad- Seriously!!

fugglysh*tters

Slight ramble coming on here, but I just wanted to say I love studying in Leiden. Currently i'm doing a MSc in clinical Neuropsychology in Leiden in the Netherlands.

And honestly I must say it is the best choice I ever made. Taking my decent 2.1 degree and figuring out what I wanted to do took a long while so a year after graduating and only a few months after finding any kind of relevant job, I end up here.

Strangely enough I was never your super motivated crazy psychology type student, who know everyone and everything and are so organised, they have it in stone from day 1.But coming here I have to recommend and shout about it if anyone is interested!!!

Currently I'm doing my thesis on an ex-pat study which is examining Bi-polar disorder in regards to differing genetic polymorphisms regarding the course and outcome of those with Bi-polar. The data is huge, there so mant interesting variables, everyone is helpful, it's the first of its kind, and it will be published. win win win.

Equally i'm getting to do a reseach internship working at an intercultural mental instituition conducting research and validation of its protocols and utility of different screening tool as applied to immigrants.

But on the back on this masters I have secured two internships at home in ireland, one beginning when I finish with ABI Ireland as a mid-level trainee under a clinical trainee but above an AP. In addition I get to work in private neurobehavioural unit after this, in a similar role.

From all of this I guess i'm just mostly saying It's a good deal, I'm receiving more practical experience than I could ever have hoped for at home in Ireland with my irregular choice of masters. For a somewhat smaller price all inclusive of 12months relocation!

I just want to recommend this place to people and the opportunities it may open for you if your unsure where you want to go. After this I will head down the clinical route with the hope of getting to neuropsychology proper eventually! However only though a random internet search did I stumble upon the Netherlands oldest and most prominent univeristy.

I'm not saying everything here was all gravy from the minute I arrived, but all my legitimate harassment on the back of looking for relevant experience to complete my international masters has furthered my education more than I can ever say!

With my last words I will say that the theory is light here, in comparison to being force feed at home every idea. Here its alot of self-direction and over my last semester I spent a meer 5 hours in college a week with 3 this semester, during compulsory classes:rolleyes:

Still I couldn't recommend it higher, the relevance for any competitive post graduate education stream is astonishing, as is the access to testing materials and programmes, not so readily available at home.

Basically my whole speel is that I want to say Leiden is an amzing place to do a masters and I guess I want to encourage others to consider education outside Ireland&UK as a valid and reliable choice for your futures:D

Odysseus

There are plenty of interesting places to study abroad. DSB get a lot of psychologists coming over to train in psychoanalysis so it works the other way round. However, there is a string connection between Gent University and DSB. I think the language is an issue for a lot of people. I would love to study in some of the Colleges in France but I’m sh!te with languages.

Most Europeans have English in general we don't bother us languages here to the same extent. However, a great post, and hopefully you may encourage those with other languages to think about it.

I was a mature student; I had to do French translations in one year and German in another as part of my degree. The idea being that I can explore the different meaning in certain Freudian and Lacanian terms. With Freud for example the term instincts in the English translations really mean drive. Stuff like that is as good as it gets for me.

Though fair play to you, the difference in do some training aboard has always be a positive for anybody I know who do it, it really did expand their view on things and exposed them to different practices, which can't be a bad thing.

Glad to hear you’re enjoying it and I hope you continue to post here filling us in on your journey

AvaKinder

Do you speak Dutch? I remember looking at their masters courses before and it stated that internships were only available for those fluent in Dutch and I am brutal with languages.

I would love to stdy abroad for my masters though so any info/reccommendations from those who have is great to hear!

fugglysh*tters

No I dont speak dutch typically lazy Irish girl I suppose, but I am further resolved to become more international with languages now. All masters here are taught through english. It took a bit of work to sort it out about 3 months of organising and sending emails but if you contact instituitions ahead of time you can work it out. For me I just didn't know the score on how to do things right.

For here I know that there are mental health instituitions called PsyQ's dotted around every town and city which can be further broken into more specialed areas such as intercultural institute's. Where I am doing my thesis they had an english speaking clinical internship I just applied too late as another girl doing a 2 year research masters had already gotten it.

So its not impossible but it does require some hard work as everything, but all internships/thesis here are sought in mental health instituitions outside of the univeristy and they try hard to accomodate english speakers, equally they offer you the choice to arrange agreements inyour home country, which again is hard work but for me they seemed more willing to offer to help me fill my requirements when I said it was a practical training requirement of the MSc.

If you've any questions about here thats currently my only knowledge, but I'd try answering whatever you like

AvaKinder

I'm really interested in the course in Leiden, how did you find the
application process for Leiden? What experience and qualifications did
you have before applying? I still have a year to go on my undergrad
and it's not PSI accredited so I'm wondering how difficult Leiden is
to get into. Does your internship run throughout the year or in block?
Do many students do their internship in their home country?

The website say you'd need €800 - 1000 a month living expenses would you says thats about right? Did you find your own accommodation over there?

Any info you have would be great, thanks!

Valmont

Add to your story the fact that TCD and UCD are slipping radically down the international rankings, and you realise that a qualification from a higher ranked, foreign university becomes much more valuable.

Valmont

fugglysh*tters wrote: »

I want to encourage others to consider education outside Ireland&UK as a valid and reliable choice for your futures:D

Why would you advise someone to study outside of the UK, specifically?

fugglysh*tters

I don't know how difficult Leiden can be to get into as I had a 2.1 and an accredited degree going in. But since they have different system if your credits don't match up they just ask you to sit an entrance exam to make up what you're missing.

For me I applied online and uploaded 2 refs one academic and one work related, wrote an application letter and sent all applicable certs, degrees and transcripts.

Because I went for clinical neuropsychology, I was required to have I think 10ECTS from my undergrad in neuro related modules I only had 7 so I sat an exam and also wrote a paper before being accepted. I was accepted conditionally pending these additional requirements.

For me this course worked for a number of reasons.
-It was specific to an area I'm interested in right now
-It's tailored to practical aspects, and expects you to be applying what you learn to populations very quickly.
-The system in the netherlands in very efficient and matter of fact, so I earned a good degree and skills that I think now back in Ireland make me stand out from the crowd.

Personally the experience was what I wanted, I wanted to combine travel and study while still having career progression, and the fee's meant that it was almost the equivalent price to staying in Ireland or studying in the UK

Psychology is a long hard route and I am aiming for clincial like the rest of the horde, but instead of just ticking the boxes of essential things along the road I wanted to do something I was interested in, that also gave me a legitimate excuse to seek out internships when I returned.

From it I was offered two internships, one in Acquired Brain Injury Ireland and the other in Redwood Neurobehavioural Unit.

Now i'm doing my internship with Acquired Brain Injury Ireland and really enjoying putting what I did learn into practice.

Hope that helps

Gone_Dutch

Just wondering if you know anyone who did the clinical psychology master in Leiden? I'm currently in my first year of a research master in utrecht, and guess I've realised that it's really more the clinical route I'm interested in. I love studying in the Netherlands though, and so am interested in switching to this course next year rather than continuing with my track. Just worried that it might not be recognised outside of the Netherlands. Any information you have would be greatly appreciated!

fugglysh*tters

I know another Irish girl did the clinical masters there, its not accredited and recognised in Ireland such that you could practice when you got back but she is currently employed as an assistant psychologist, and she got that position before she had left the Netherlands and graduated.

I dont know if your a member of the assistant psychologist google group but there's a thread on it really recently covering this and she has commented about the masters in Leiden in it, perhaps you could join and reply?

I think she'd be the best example really for the Irish system taking you on afterwards

Gone_Dutch

I hadn't heard about that group, but will join now. Thank you so much for your help and quick reply.

Faith

Hi fugglysh*tters, no idea if you're still following this thread! I've applied for Leiden and gotten a conditional offer based on passing an exam. I can't get details of the exam until after Easter though :rolleyes:. Can you tell me anything about your experience with the exam? Was it in Leiden, or did you do it online, or how did it work? Was it straight-forward or complicated? And how did you study for it? Thanks!

AvaKinder

Hi Faith,
I'm doing my thesis next year so will be applying for Leiden then, how did you find the application process? Hard/easy? Are you going for their international student accommodation or your own? Which masters did you apply for?

Any info appreciated!

Faith

The application process is long enough. You fly through most of it, but you have to scan in copies of your passport, transcripts, diplomas if you have them, CV, 2 reference letters, and so on. You also have to do a Letter of Motivation, from 700-1500 words long. It's not hard, but it can take a while to put it all together. It also costs €100 to apply. Once you've applied and paid, it normally takes 4-6 weeks to get a decision. It was 4 weeks for me. I applied for the Clinical Psychology masters.

I went with student housing because I heard it's really difficult to rent privately in the Netherlands, and the facilities often aren't that great due to limited space. It just seemed like the easier option. Again, that costs €500 to apply for, which then acts as your security deposit if you take the housing offer. I'm slightly different as well, because my boyfriend also applied for an MA (not psychology) so we needed a shared apartment for just the two of us.

I've got a 2:1 degree in Neuroscience and a 1:1 in psychology, and they still want me to do an exam and take an extra module in statistics when I start, so I'm guessing the level is high and competition is fierce!

AvaKinder

Thanks Faith. I'd say I probably wouldn't get accepted if they still want you to jump through hoops with your qualifications but I guess there's no harm in applying. Is the €500 deposit for housing refundable if you're not accepted onto the course?

Faith

Well, I wouldn't write it off just yet! My psychology degree is only a 2-year conversion course, so I'm not surprised about the extra statistics. The exam was a surprise, but if your degree is 3 or 4 years long, it'd probably be fine.

The €500 is fully refundable if you don't get in, yeah .

fugglysh*tters

Hi sorry haven't checked into the psychology section in a while.

Re: exams, I did a neuropsychology exam which was probably in hindsight unnecessary it required I fly over to sit the exam at the time. I accepted it and done at as I saw that my courses seemingly didn't directly translate to 10 credits in neuropsychology.

Other international students however have contested this and pointed out where they had already covered the material and had the adequate amount of ECTS in knowledge. It does depend on what the exam is in though and your previous courses.

I think statistics is taught better over there they do expect a high level of statistical knowledge and ability from all students. Its really emphasised from the start also phd are very sought after and extremely hard to get, so being a good statistician can be an advantage.

Accomodation wise its very difficult to find somewhere on your own when you are not in the country. The 500 deposit for housing is refunded to you at the end dependent on you cleaning the place and having left nothing broken. The best bet is finding a room through dutch sites looking for new housemates, the reason the international office accommodation is the good is its furnished. You would need to furnish your room or apartment yourself if you go the other route as this is the norm over there for students.

I hope you get in and enjoy it if you have any other questions ask away

Faith

Thanks so much for the reply! Just on the note of contesting the exam - I'm looking at what they want me to cover (5 ECTS of psychopathology) and I've already done that (well, 5 ECTS of Abnormal Psychology, that seems to cover everything they want). Do you have any idea how I'd go about contesting it? Do I just email the Psychology department and explain, or is there a more complicated official way?

fugglysh*tters

Just email the Clincial psychology secretary, they do all that kind of organising and if it needs to be given to the international student coordinator then she'll arrange it. But yeah I would say you have sufficient credits covered already.
You may need to explain your modules in an expanded manner but there's no point in wasting 500 euro on an exam that you don't need for the course!

Try to take as many credits as you can its common for people to even double up on masters over there, one girl I remember only needed to take two more modules to have a health and clinical masters because the was a large overlap which was handy.

here is the secretary for clinical:
Educational Secretariat Clinical & Health Psychology
For information about courses, seminars and master thesis/internship consultation hour please contact the educational secretariat.

Office hours: Monday-Wednesday 9-17 hrs, Thursday 9-12 hrs
Staff:

Room 2.B57
Bionda Kijk in de Vegte
tel.no. 071-5273726 (Monday-Tuesday-Thursday)

half the time it can be more direct to ring and discuss the matter rather than send emails, as it can take a while for an answer, where I found the phone call resolved things much more quickly!

Good Luck:D

Faith

Thank you so much! That's very interesting about doubling up on modules; I must look into that a lot more. Is it something you sort out before you begin, or after you start? Do they explain it to you, or is it just done under your own steam? It seems I could easily get the health psychology MA too with an extra two modules.

I ended up emailing the course coordinator on the advice of someone from the psychology desk about the exam, but she's on holidays until Thursday so it'll be next week before I get a reply, I guess.

realta_91

Hey, I only just came across this discussion when searching for more info on the masters in Leiden and it has been really helpful . I'm in final year psychology and hoping to apply to start next September. Just wondering though, would you happen to know much about funding and how you can go about looking for grants etc.?

fugglysh*tters

Hey im not sure what you mean by funding? They do not have college grants the same way we do. The masters is a flat fee of approx 1,700 euro. I did know a canadian who worked 10 hours a week and had a BSN (our PPS-you receive it once you register at town hall, as everyone who stays longer than 6 months must do) therefore applied for studiefinancering I think the dutch grant system? There is some subsidy paid to dutch students which in this manner internationals can fall into the category. but its hard getting an english speaking job for 10 hours a week. Not sure if thats been helpful the best place to contact is ISN, The international study network are very helpful and the best source of info on international related things such as this. Email: mentor@isnleiden.com try this guy he's the mentoring and IT member but has a lot of knowledge about coming to Leiden to study.

realta_91

Thanks a million for the reply. I guess I was just wondering about grants for fees or maybe even scholarship programmes or anything. I know it's not at all expensive as compared to any other masters in Ireland/UK, but every bit helps Would you have known many english speaking students who were able to get jobs while over there? A dutch friend of mine said that there would be no problems but I'm not so sure! Yeah, I think it is that you get 200 euro a month and free travel if you work a certain number of hours or something? Nice! Also, did you start in September or February and is one better than the other?

Looking at older posts it seems that they are quite pedantic about entry requirements. I was looking at the entry requirements for clinical neuropsychology and it says that you need to have an introductory level course in clinical psychology, which I never had. I've taken sophister level courses since but would you say they would be quite rigid over this? Plus I will have over double the necessary ECTS in neuropsych modules as my final year project is right in that field, so maybe that would counterbalance that?

fugglysh*tters

Many english speaking friends did not work during their time there but that doesnt mean it isnt possible to get the work, it just becomes a bit constrictive when it needs to stay within the ten hours a week, but restaurants and cafes like starbucks which are not native dutch are easier for sure or phone centres in amsterdam etc.

When I applied I had to sit an exam in neurospychology but looking back it was unnesscessary, they do not attempt to decode your degree transcript. So where you have studied abnormal psychology and learning theories i.e operant, classical these all technically fall under clinical psychology requirements, if you look im sure you can find them? I do know when i was there a german girl I was friendly with wrote a letter and explained eacj course and argued why she felt she qualified and did not require the extra exam or paper.

Also im again not sure how possible it is to study two masters at once at this time but I would recommend checking out combining the neuropsychology and clinical psychology masters courses. The neuropsychology theory is good it covers either adult or child and intervention strategies but it is very acutely driven, kinda academic and hospital mixed also its quite light time-wise. If you wish to return to Ireland or UK, some clinical skills, interviewing techniques and basic CBT would be a more rounded experience and you can get this doing the two courses. It would probably put you in a great place for succeeding if clinical doctorate was your route as the research (thesis) experience is about 6 months and also you can arrange your own internship at home i.e voluntary assistant psychologist.

Theres hard work involved but it really does pay off in setting you up for continuing your career.

pm if you want any further details

Faith

Hi, I just wanted to come back to this thread. They are VERY strict and unwilling to budge about entry requirements. They insisted I sit an exam in psychopathology, assessment and intervention. I had taken a course in my final year that covered all the topics they outlined, gotten a high 2:1 in it, and had spent 12 months working with a clinical psychologist doing assessments (and who thought it was absurd that I should have to do the exam). Despite me going back and pointing all of this out, they refused to budge and insisted I do the exam. The exam itself cost €550, and required study materials came to another €150.

In the end, with the cost of the exam and the high cost of renting, it didn't work out much cheaper to go there than the UK. I felt their unwillingness to budge on the exam didn't bode well for our academic relationship, and eventually I decided that the negatives outweighed the benefits.

Another thing I considered was that the course was an MA, whereas an MSc was offered in Bangor University in Wales. MScs are considered preferable because they involve a research element that MAs don't, so that's something to bear in mind.

realta_91

Faith wrote: »

Another thing I considered was that the course was an MA, whereas an MSc was offered in Bangor University in Wales. MScs are considered preferable because they involve a research element that MAs don't, so that's something to bear in mind.

Sorry but I have only just seen your reply now and have a few questions to ask so hopefully you might see this! I recently came across this masters in Bangor and I am now torn between it and Leiden. Do you know anyone who has done this masters and have gotten many opportunities from it? From what I see on the Leiden homepage the clinical neuropsychology is a master of science in psychology or so it says and not an MA? Plus, I know that Leiden is very high up in the world rankings compared to Bangor, although this might be different for this specific area. Sorry to hear that they were so stringent with their entry criteria and I hope that it all works out for you!

Faith

Bangor has an outstanding reputation in the UK for psychology. It's one of the best departments in the UK. It's got state of the art facilities, and is known as being the area that most of the money goes to.

If it's neuropsychology you're interested in, then I'd strongly recommend Bangor. It's HEAVILY focused on neuropsychology and neuroscience. Even if you do the Clinical Psychology masters, you do mostly neuropsychology.

At this point, I don't know anyone personally who has completed the Masters, but I'll know a lot in 6 months!

For me, I'm planning on doing my D.Clin.Psych in the UK, so it made sense for me to make contacts within the UK. Also, admission boards would probably be a lot more familiar with qualifications from Bangor than Leiden.

Again, it's a very personal decision. In terms of course content, I don't enjoy the masters at all, because I don't care for neuropsychology.

realta_91

It does look like a great course from the course description and I had heard that Bangor was very highly regarded although it has been only very recently that I found out about it. So are you doing the foundations of clinical neuropsychology masters at the moment, or the clinical psychology one? Is the application process tough, requiring some clinical experience beforehand? I will have very relevant neuropsychology research experience after this year with my final year project so hopefully that will help.

Also, one of the main concerns would be the expense of the course, but I remember reading on another forum that many individuals on the course work at the same time as rehabilitation assistants/care workers at local brain injury facilities etc. which seems like a great option for making money of course, but also for relevant experience. This discussion was quite old though, but is it fair to say that you can easily do this? Being able to earn some money while doing a masters would be something that is important for me anyway, and something that might be much less likely to happen in Leiden. Do you like Bangor as a place to study?

Sorry for all the questions - As you probably understand, it's a fairly tough decision to make and you want to get the most information as possible!

Faith

I'm doing the Foundations of Clinical Psychology MSc, although there's not a huge difference between the two. On the neuro course, I believe you spend time in the hospital each week with patients which is no doubt very beneficial.

I got an unconditional offer based on a half-hearted application, so I've no idea if their criteria are strict. I had a year of voluntary AP work under my belt; maybe that helped.

I don't know about working. I don't know anyone who does it, and it's a time-consuming Masters. Each lecture is 3 hours long, so you're mentally steam-rollered after them. There's a relatively heavy course-load, with mid-term and end of semester exams for some subjects, along with assignments. I personally wouldn't be able for working at the same time (and I worked throughout my undergrad). But if you need to work, you'll find it - although it might be in Asda rather than somewhere clinically relevant.

I think you should be able to find more relevant information about the course at The Student Room forums: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forum.php

As for Bangor itself - it's alright. It's a small town with not a lot to do. There's a couple of okay pubs, and a few nightclubs but I've never been in them. The nearest cinema is 30 minutes away. It's a picturesque part of the world, and if you're into outdoor pursuits, it would be an ideal place. The student population is very friendly and I've found it really easy to make friends here.

emigrating

The facilities and lecturers at Bangor are quite good, but there are better options in the UK if you apply early. There is no clinical experience on the courses in Bangor. The module based in the hospital the previous poster mentioned does not give clinical experience. You just have a lecture , except its in the hospital. If Leiden got someone an internship in Ireland then do that, because that is unheard of. My mate has a first in Psy undergrad and a distinction in the Clin Neuro masters, and worked in a brain injury place. He was given the PFO by ABI Ireland, by Redwood, and couldn't even get volunteer work at the NRH. He left for London and I intend doing the same.

realta_91

"He was given the PFO by ABI Ireland, by Redwood, and couldn't even get volunteer work at the NRH. He left for London and I intend doing the same"

Hi Emigrating,

I only just saw this post and I'm just wondering if you did the Clinical Neuropsychology Masters yourself in Bangor? I got an offer from them, but I am still considering applying for Leiden for their February 2014 intake.

kasuten

Hey,

I just came across this board, and it's been so useful, so thanks to all. Not sure if people are still checking this but thought I'd post regardless.
I'm a Canadian with EU citizenship who is really interested in the Master's in Clinical Psyc at Leiden, but like others from abroad, am not sure how my credits will transfer. I did a 4 year degree, and contacted both admissions and the master's program coordinator for psychology to get clarification on the entry requirements listed on the website, but both simply told me that they wouldn't be able to tell me until I applied.

I never took an Intro course in cognitive psyc., and am not sure how many of my courses could be considered clinical, or whether my background constitutes "advanced knowledge" in clinical psyc. I only had to take one statistics course as well, so even though I took well beyond the psyc. credits required for my degree, I'm a bit concerned that I won't be eligible. Just wondering if anyone has some feedback about that.

I was curious as well about the theoretical framework for the clinical program. I don't have much of a neuroscience background, and I was wondering if the Master's in clinical psyc. emphasizes that.

Anyways, I think I may just apply by Dec. 1st and see what happens, but any info would be appreciated!

K