I don't want children

LegacyUser · 30-01-2011 12:25pm #1

I'm a single woman. I don't want children. I'm feeling a bit alone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going around sharing this information with anyone and everyone, but has come up once or twice and I feel very misunderstood.

I don't mind the whole body changing/loss of time for parties much. I could cope with the responsibility. I actually quite like children. I don't really mind noise. I dislike mess, but could cope with it.

However, my job doesn't really allow much time for motherhood - I would feel bad for not working and I would feel guilty for not being with the children. Women in this field who reproduce rarely seem to progress in their careers - while career progression is not the most important thing to me, it is quite important. I have worked very hard and I don't want all that to go down the pan.

Most parents I know seem quite worn down. All I ever hear about from them is the difficulty of parenthood. They do also say that nothing else has ever made them so happy, but it never, ever looks in any way enjoyable.

Things like parental guilt sound positively ghastly.

In fact, even parenting stories that are meant to sound nice don't appeal to me much.

I also have a few genes that I'd rather weren't passed on.

I don't want anyone to feel they have to look after me in my old age.

I'm a worrier, which probably wouldn't help.

Trivial as it is, I don't want to find things like nappies interesting. I realise this doesn't happen to all parents, but it's common, in my experience/

Most of all, I lack the desire to have children.

I don't like being told I'll change my mind. If I were to tell people that I have no desire to be a teacher they wouldn't keep saying that. And I really don't think I'm being selfish. It would be worse to have a child I didn't really want. I know I've narrowed down my choice of men. While this is not ideal, it's okay.

I would quite like to want children. However, I just don't. I'm not looking to be swayed. Not sure what I'm looking for really, but it's good to write it all down.

Just to reiterate, I'm not exactly broadcasting this information. By and large, I don't tell people. I just feel a bit... segregated.

Thank you.

tenchi-fan · 30-01-2011 6:25pm

You're a single woman. Most single people are financially in no position to even consider having kids.

On the other hand, you never mentioned whether you would like a partner? If you had one, would it change your views?

You are putting yourself down saying you are a worrier, and you have bad genes, etc. I think you should concentrate less on hypothetical kids and more on your own confidence and well-being.

WesternNight · 30-01-2011 6:35pm

Not having the desire to have children is completely fine. You don't have to justify not wanting to have children. And anyone you do have to justify it to isn't really someone you'd want to spend time with.

There are plenty of men who don't want children either, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

LegacyUser · 30-01-2011 6:37pm

No, I don't lack confidence at all. I should have been clearer - I carry some disease genes.

I state that I am a worrier because it is a fact. I don't see it as a bad thing even. As so much can go wrong when children are involved, I'm not sure it would be wise.

I could afford children if I wanted. I just don't desire them.

Yes, I would like a partner but I honestly don't think that would change anything. Perhaps if I had a man who would do all the school collections and be the one to leave work if necessary and take parental leave instead of me, then maybe.

Thank you for the reply.

LegacyUser · 30-01-2011 7:11pm

You have no idea what you want. You say you don't want children and are not looking to be swayed but then list out ridiculous reasons about not finding nappys interesting etc. !! Uh nobody does!
However when you said that if you had a partner who was willing to do the school run and take parental leave you would reconsider!!!!!!!!!!!! What????

Not sure what your agenda is but you are not someone who does not want children. You are either someone who is cynical and wants to be persuaded or are looking for attention.

I don't want children. Full stop! I don't need to give ridiculous excuses or say that oh if there was a man who would do the night feeds then umm maybe. Nobody could convince me otherwise.

There are 3 kinds of people. Those who def want kinds, those who def don't and those that don't know what they want. You are the third or you would not be on here with this nonsense.

dellas1979 · 30-01-2011 7:46pm

Are you a doctor/in the medical profession?

law86 · 30-01-2011 8:18pm

I'm of a similar view. I've never been broody over random kids though I love my nieces and nephews to bits. I'm in my mid thirties and kids are on my mind because the decision will be made for me soon enough. I always thought that if the right circumstances came together, relatonship, finances etc that I would have kids, but they never coincided and the fact that they didn't doesn't fill me with either regret or a sense of urgency to bring them together.

They are a huge blessing as well as a responsibilty, but I'm content to know that I won't have kids. It doesn't leave me feeling like I have missed out, I love seeing the atmosphere of other people's busy households but I love walking away from them too.

albeit · 30-01-2011 10:26pm

You do not need to want to have kids. I really don't see the problem here, it is like you feel guilty for not wanting kids.

LegacyUser · 31-01-2011 12:44am

areuforreal wrote: »

You have no idea what you want. You say you don't want children and are not looking to be swayed but then list out ridiculous reasons about not finding nappys interesting etc. !! Uh nobody does!
However when you said that if you had a partner who was willing to do the school run and take parental leave you would reconsider!!!!!!!!!!!! What????

Not sure what your agenda is but you are not someone who does not want children. You are either someone who is cynical and wants to be persuaded or are looking for attention.

I don't want children. Full stop! I don't need to give ridiculous excuses or say that oh if there was a man who would do the night feeds then umm maybe. Nobody could convince me otherwise.

There are 3 kinds of people. Those who def want kinds, those who def don't and those that don't know what they want. You are the third or you would not be on here with this nonsense.

I think you misread my original post. I never said that I find nappies uninteresting or otherwise - I said that I do not want to find them (and similar issues) interesting. Many parents I know will discuss these things at length.

I never said I would change my mind as such, but relationships require compromise. If I met a man and loved him and he really wanted children, I would have to think about things. I don't actively want kids, but it's only one aspect of me - as in, I don't dislike the idea so much that I would rule it out completely to the detriment of all else. Perhaps my thread title would be clearer if I wrote 'I don't have any desire to reproduce', but I think most people know what I mean. I know precisely what I want. This, however, isn't always easy.

To clarify that further, I don't want to be a mother. It's not the night feeds that bother me. I was being slightly tongue in cheek with the school run comment. Having a partner would not change how I feel, but could change how I act - in the same way as a person could get hit by a bus, but this is statistically unlikely.

I am writing this because I genuinely find it difficult to be a woman with no desire to have children. There is a lot of pressure from many angles. I wasn't trying to argue my case - just wanted to show where I'm coming from. I suppose by posting here, by definition, everyone is looking for attention in some shape or form. Personally, I wanted to anonymously discuss something that troubles me. I don't wish to be convinced - many people have tried!

There really is no need to be so cross.

thebigleap · 31-01-2011 1:44am

What age are you? If you are young, then you shouldn't even be worrying about this right now. If you're older and are not hearing alarm bells, then you already know the answer.

Parenthood can be wonderful but it's not for everyone and life can be just as fulfilling for those who choose not to procreate.

The people I feel sorry for are the couples who desperately want children but can't conceive.

Esel · 31-01-2011 1:58am

maryoreilly wrote: »

Personally, I wanted to anonymously discuss something that troubles me.

Glad you stated this, because up to that point, I couldn't see the personal issue. Why are you troubled about it?

sam34 · 31-01-2011 9:05am

i'm similar to you OP, in that i am a single woman and i know i do not want to have kids. i have made the decision that i will never have them.

it's not something that bothers me, or causes me any angst in itself.

what does bother me, however, is the crap you get from other people about it.

people who are so arrogant that they think they know you, your wants and desires, better than you yourself.

people who are so narrow-minded that they cannot even begin to comprehend that there are people out in the big bad world who do not think and behave in exactly the same manner as them

people who somehow feel threatened by the fact that somebody doesnt blindly follow so-called societal norms

people who call you selfish, then list their own reasons for having children, almost all of which are selfish

people who are so smug and patronising to actually tell you that your life is and always will be incomplete without children

having children or not having them is a very personal decision, yet there are lots of people who think they have a right, a duty almost, to comment on others decisions in this regard.

Ickle Magoo · 31-01-2011 10:27am

OP, is there an aspect of this you require advice on? If it's just to generate a general discussion on not having children or discussing the actions of others in relation to that decision then The Ladies Lounge or Humanities would be a more appropriate forum.

prinz · 31-01-2011 10:34am

sam34 wrote: »

having children or not having them is a very personal decision, yet there are lots of people who think they have a right, a duty almost, to comment on others decisions in this regard.

Such as the OP basically looking down her nose at people who have kids and like to discuss childcare issues (they discuss nappies at length? the horror)? Or people who put their children before a career? The mess of a home with children..

People can want to have kids...and other people don't want to have kids. However it's disengenuous to imagine the comments on this decision only go one way.

OP if you don't want to have kids don't. Perhaps the reason you feel misunderstood is because you don't seem to be doing a great job at understanding others who do want kids and all that entails?

seenitall · 31-01-2011 10:38am

What sam34 said, OP.

There are a lot of smug and narrow-minded people in this world who for some arrogant reason feel perfectly entitled to preach to others about their personal choices and so on. You can't do anything about these people's existance or their attempts at preaching at you, but what you can do is control your own reaction to their brazenness.

In short: in the one ear, out the other. Like water off duck's back. Don't let it bother you. I know it is easier said than done, but the reality is that you are choosing to go against the grain of societal expectation, and this society (for the most part) doesn't like that. So you really need to develop a bit of a thicker hide. Which I suppose comes with time and also being entirely comfortable with your choices and in your skin!

Best wishes.

FoxT · 31-01-2011 1:05pm

Hi OP, you do not need to have a reason for not wanting to have children!

Many parents (myself included) would not be able to articulate clear reasons for why they had kids in the first place. Of course, we don't get asked! Nobody has ever asked me 'why did you decide to have children' - though unfortunately it does happen to people who do not want children.

You do not need to justify your decision to anybody, either.

However, it sounds like you feel isolated. Certainly when your friends get to a certain age many of them will have children & it will impact their social lives & also your social life with them. The tone of your post also suggests that you may not be fully clear in your own mind why you have made this decision?
Have a think about it - if you are feeling socially isolated, what strategies can you come up with to help with that?
Try & relax a bit, not wanting to have children is not your defining characteristic? What is really important to you? How do you propose to pursue it?

Just a few thoughts, Best of luck,

- FoxT

LegacyUser · 31-01-2011 1:56pm

Thanks for the replies.

I posted here because it is a personal issue for me. Similar threads in humanities have been locked. I don't quite see it as a female issue, even though I do feel my gender contributes. Mainly, it helps to 'talk it through'. Others who feel similarly are helping.

In response to a few: I don't at all look down on people who have children. For example, I know many people who wouldn't do my job because of certain less savoury aspects. I don't think that this equates to looking down on me because I do it. I specifically said that mess would not be an offputting factor for me.

Sam34, thank you. I think you have articulated many bits of how I feel better than I could. It really is the pressure from others that gets me.

Yes, I am at an age where it is becoming an issue. I have friends who already have them or are planning on/enthusiastic about having them. In response to this part, I expect to be told to grow up, but I feel a bit left out, but not so much that I want to do differently - a bit of a limbo like situation.

FoxT, I love what I do. I really enjoy my work and my life. I'm not generally unrelaxed, even though I'm a worrier, if that makes any sense at all. I just didn't think that personal issues wanted to hear about how nice things are otherwise!

Ickle Magoo · 31-01-2011 2:43pm

I appreciate you view it as a personal issue for you, I was just asking what kind of advice you wanted/expected as PI is an advice forum rather than a discussion forum.

If it's the pressure,expectation or comments from others bothering you then I think you just have to get used to it - and also understand that interfering nosey people aren't confined to parents commenting on the childless, whether it be how people raise their kids, what they work as, how they dress, whatever aspect they choose to live their life that doesn't fit into someone else's neat little expectation box or how they'd choose to live their lives, people comment and judge.

It's a sad fact of life, unfortunately, and I think the best way to deal with it is to be resolute in what you want, be completely happy with your choices & ignore those who think they are qualified to judge. My parents best friends chose not to have kids and yet them and my parents were able to stay friends for 30 odd years, I think you need to set boundaries regarding the kind of comments that are made to you and at the same time, try to avoid talking disparagingly about children or parenthood to others who have chosen a different road.

All the best.

31-01-2011 5:27pm

OP, I'm going to use a completely trivial analogy, but I think it's relevant and might help you figure some stuff out.

For an Irish-person, this is going to sound bizarre, but.... I don't like tea. Never have. It's a personal quirk I have that most Irish people find weird. When I'm in someone's house for the first time, I'm invariably asked if I'd like some. When I reply with "No thanks, I don't drink tea", I'm greeted with a shocked look. Half the time, I get asked "Why not?" "Are you sure?" "Would you not have a bit?" "Have you tried it?" etc. etc. It's a rarity in Ireland that the majority of people can't seem to understand.

Now, what does all that have to do with you...

I'm perfectly happy with my decision to not like tea. I have my reasons, and it's my personal choice. People might find it weird, but that's their problem. I might have to put up with people expressing their disbelief at it on occasion, but if they're annoying me that much I just won't spend time with them.

I'm not trivialising your problem, but if you're happy with your opinion, why do you care what other people think of it? If it comes up, why can't you just say "I don't want children" and leave it at that?

albeit · 31-01-2011 6:03pm

Just say: 'My personal choice in life is not to have children.' If someone said that to me I would not feel entitled to question 'their personal choice in life' further.
If someone said: 'I don't want to have children'- then I would feel entitled to ask 'why?'.

sam34 · 31-01-2011 6:06pm

prinz wrote: »

People can want to have kids...and other people don't want to have kids. However it's disengenuous to imagine the comments on this decision only go one way

i never said it was an entirely one way street, in fact i said:

sam34 wrote: »

having children or not having them is a very personal decision, yet there are lots of people who think they have a right, a duty almost, to comment on others decisions in this regard.

but, having said that, i doubt that parents get quizzed on their decision to become parents far less than those who choose to remain childfree get quizzed about that decision.

LegacyUser · 31-01-2011 8:47pm

Thanks for the replies.

IckleMagoo, if this is completely unsuitable for the forum, feel free to lock it. I like the support/advice I'm getting on speaking to people who try to make me change my mind.

Neyite · 31-01-2011 10:21pm

Mary,
I would be coming from a slightly different viewpoint, but I totally understand your frustration. In my case, I have been trying for a child for over 18 months, and am at the starting blocks of fertility treatment. Aside from one family member and my partner (and some boardsies who dont know me in real life) nobody else knows. Because I am in my thirties I get asked all the time by my (large) family, and his family, and repeatedly. In my case, there are, as you can imagine, days were I would be ready to rip the fecking head off someone who tells me 'I better get a move on, or I'm not getting any younger'.

I think its an incredibly thick thing for people to ask. Whether you want children, and maybe cant, or cant stand the thought of children, its your choice, and its also very much your own business. The only person you need to discuss your reasons with is your partner for fairness in case a child free life does not appeal to him.

Next time someone asks, just give them a good look and say 'thats a bit personal, don't you think?

bronte · 31-01-2011 10:33pm

Hi Op,
Sorry to hear you're having difficulties.
I used to be similar in that I would take what people said to me personally and get upset by it, but I've found making light of the situation often can bring things back to normal.
Just joke about it!
For example the topic comes up and you say "I don't want kids"
Then comes the inevitable "Ah you might not like other children but it's different when it's your own"
I say "I'm sure Saddam Hussein's parents felt the same way"

When they realise they're not being taken seriously, they usually back off.
I know it's not nice, but as someone else said..this is their issue, not yours. If you can find a way to respect their choices, they should afford you same. If not, why not?
I know it's crap, especially when it's your friends/family...but again joke about it and change the subject if you can.

Boskowski · 31-01-2011 11:00pm

Me personally I would not want to have children because the last thing this planet needs is more human beings. I have a very negative outlook for the human race and I have had since I began to form an opinion on things. I'm not too sure how many more generations we have left before this place turns into something that isn't really worth livin' in. Probably more than I think but I don't want to put my children or their children in a position to witness this or even the beginning of it. Of course I can't really ever say that to anyone cause people would look at me like I've just escaped from an asylum. Not sure what my point is other than there is a lot of perfectly valid cases to be made against reproduction.

kerryman12 · 02-02-2011 2:56pm

This is a great site. Every now and again something comes along that really makes you sit back and re-evaluate stuff in your life. With that said;

Hi Op

I am going to go back over your posts here, I am not trying to change your mind - just challenge you point of view and maybe give you a different perspective.

However, my job doesn't really allow much time for motherhood - I would feel bad for not working and I would feel guilty for not being with the children. Women in this field who reproduce rarely seem to progress in their careers - while career progression is not the most important thing to me, it is quite important. I have worked very hard and I don't want all that to go down the pan.

I have never believed in this whole idea that you can have it all. There are only so many hours in the day, and any one person can only be expected to do so much. Though it is unfair this is particularly true for women I guess. If you are 100% committed to your career right now you should expect that if you did have a kid that something would have to give. To be honest I think that is only logical and indeed indicates that you have your priorities the right way around.
When it comes to work we all want a successful career and all that it brings but if you are honest most people will reach a plateau at some point, either through ability or personal choice. The question then becomes can you accept that and enjoy other aspects of your life or will you feel like you are missing something eg kids. I don’t really buy this idea that by having kids you are letting things go down the pan or coping out. You are making a choice to go in a different direction that’s all.

Most parents I know seem quite worn down. All I ever hear about from them is the difficulty of parenthood. They do also say that nothing else has ever made them so happy, but it never, ever looks in any way enjoyable.

I am relatively new to this whole parenting craic so I don’t claim to have a lot of experience, but......
Yes it is hard going, very hard at times - but also very rewarding. When my daughter looks at me and smiles (usually an indication of wind ) it is one of, if not the best feeling in the world. You just can’t appreciate it until it happens to you. I mean if you want to look at it from a totally different way then you could say, if it was all bad and it was just about propagation of the species then everyone would just stop at one and say well I did my bit. So obviously couples that have multiple kids must be getting something out of it for all of the hard work.

In fact, even parenting stories that are meant to sound nice don't appeal to me much.

Of course they don’t you have no terms of reference. My best friend has three kids from 4 to 8 yrs. I would visit regularly and for years have been listening to stories about nappies/bugs/ sleepless night etc etc with little or no interest. All you can do is smile and nod politely, right! But when you reach a point when you are thinking about having kids of your own suddenly you can relate more and once you have one of your own it changes again. You have to be in the right state of mind to hear what they are saying I guess.

I also have a few genes that I'd rather weren't passed on.

We all have a few of those, obviously some more so than others. But you have to accept that if you were ever to have kids then there will always be an inherent risk attached. For example you might have a perfect baby only for something horrible to happen - god forbid. Then again you might have a seriously physically handicapped child (as is one member of my extended family) only to find that he/she is one of the most exceptional kids you can imagine. We all want a happy, healthy baby but as with everything there are no guarantees.

I don't want anyone to feel they have to look after me in my old age.

Seriously come on, that is not a valid reason to not have kids.

I'm a worrier, which probably wouldn't help.

Again this is not really a valid reason not to have kids. People who are worriers such as yourself, my wife and the way I used to be will always find something to worry about. As soon as one worry is over immediately you will find the next one to move onto. The thing about though is that it is all relative really. When you are young free and single you will worry about your career or where to go on holiday - you will spend allot of time worrying about this. If you were to have kids then you will worry about them of course and other things will be trivial, but of course try telling that to the single person. Ok they will acknowledge that kids are more important but will still worry about that summer holiday! The realisation I have some to is that worrying is about as useful as trying to inflate a car tyre by blowing at it! When you sit back and think about it, which I have, 90% of the stuff you worry about will never come to pass in any event! Anyway rant over.

rivial as it is, I don't want to find things like nappies interesting. I realise this doesn't happen to all parents, but it's common, in my experience/

Who does?

Most of all, I lack the desire to have children.

If this is really how you feel, and based on your posts it is then this is a valid reason not to have kids. Just be happy that you are doing it for the right reason i.e. for you and not because of some job.

I don't like being told I'll change my mind

Well that is fair enough, and hard to hear for anyone. But I must admit I always have my doubts about people who are 100% certain about people who have concrete plans made for the next 10/20/30 yrs. You have to accept that as you get older your outlook will change, opinions/expectation changes and what you want/expect from life will change. In short life just gets in the way. By all means make you plans but be prepared on some level to adapt them as required. Anyway isn’t it a woman’s prerogative to change her mind

I would quite like to want children. However, I just don't

Don’t you think there is a complete contradiction in this? I mean ask yourself is this really really what you want or are you trying to persuade yourself that this is what you want.

I state that I am a worrier because it is a fact. I don't see it as a bad thing even. As so much can go wrong when children are involved, I'm not sure it would be wise.

Again see point above re the futility or worrying.

I never said I would change my mind as such, but relationships require compromise. If I met a man and loved him and he really wanted children, I would have to think about things

Careful now!

In time you will meet someone and hopefully be very happy. But if were to have kids at that stage just be sure that again you are doing it for the right reason. You need to be 100% onboard with the plan, it’s not really fair to be having kids as a compromise or to keep you partner happy.

I am writing this because I genuinely find it difficult to be a woman with no desire to have children. There is a lot of pressure from many angles.

I can understand that you would feel under pressure to some extent, but you need to be happy in your own skin with your decision. If you are really happy with not having kids then for your own sake let go of any guilt or whatever that might be. I know how this sounds but you owe it to yourself OP.

I think Sam34's first post is great, can we make that a sticky or something?
If I was to developed it a bit more or maybe condense it a bit I would say to you;
Don’t live your life worrying about what others say to you or how you per sieve them to be thinking about you. Life is too short for that and in the end it reflects more on them than you.

I have friends who already have them or are planning on/enthusiastic about having them. In response to this part, I expect to be told to grow up, but I feel a bit left out

Well as you say yourself - grow up. You have to expect that if you make this decision you will feel like this and perhaps as time goes by you will feel this even more. But of itself this is not of course a valid reason to have kids.

I love what I do. I really enjoy my work and my life.

That is a great position to be in. Of course the problem is will you feel like this always or perhaps want ore at a later date, maybe - maybe not.

marzic · 02-02-2011 5:18pm

Its incredible in 2011 that people, and (at the risk being labelled male chauvinist pig) particularly women, still go on like this. I thought this kind of attitude towards people who have no desire, or even choose not to have children, would have disappeared by now.

I would have hoped that people were more open-minded by now, but my view is that as a society, we are immature and narrow minded, and it appears to show that attitudes take a long time to change. It must be the herd mentality. Actually that analogy probably explains both the human desire to have children, and also to stay in line with the majority belief!

I would empathize with you OP, why cant people simply respect and accept your differing view without trying to fix it for you?

I agree with Sam34, especially here:

people who are so smug and patronising to actually tell you that your life is and always will be incomplete without children

I was at the gynie with my wife, and while she was in with the nurse, I was in the waiting room. There were three ore four women there and some were talking about the other kids at home and stuff, and one was definately using the opportunity to show and tell, the typical show off with all the 'classic' one liners about babies. She was telling some boring auld story and the other one was laughing like a fool, and I just yawned out loud and she kinda sniffed and carried on, and I thought... who the fcuk cares? even at the gynie?

I know that I'd personally be making a great deal more difference and contribution to my community if i wasn't home minding my kids, and I find that that bothers me. Of course i love them to bits and am happy thats its right to share the parenting.

You, unfortunately, have to justify why you feel differently - which is just plain wrong to have to do. Perhaps you should say something like "this is not an opinion, this is how i feel, how can you tell me what I feel/believe/dont desire is wrong?... ok now lets talk about shoes!"(joke)
All the best.

Ickle Magoo · 02-02-2011 5:24pm

Can we please avoid making sweeping generalisations about swathes of the population as it only serves to inflame and annoy. Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP.

Many thanks.

LegacyUser · 02-02-2011 6:03pm

Thanks again everyone.

Kerryman, your post makes many, many assumptions about me and my life. I know you're not trying to convince me, but your post truly does read as though you are. It also consists entirely of the arguments I have heard hundreds of times.

The part where I said 'I would like to want to have children' is not at all a contradiction. It would get people off my back if I were to suddenly become mammy extraordinaire. It would simplify things. However, I don't want children.

Many of my reasons seem ridiculous to you, but they wouldn't to others. I could similarly argue that being excited by a baby smiling at you is a 'completely invalid' thing to like about parenting, but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that my opinion of what is valid is the only correct one.

Also, what I do for a living is not just 'some job'. I would rather not specify what it is, but I genuinely am more useful to people there than I would be elsewhere.

I am happy that what I want is indeed what I want. I am less happy about how people react. I mean, if I said that I was single now and definitely wanted children at some stage, people wouldn't keep telling me that 'i'd never know' and not to be planning too far ahead.

kerryman12 · 02-02-2011 6:18pm

Its incredible in 2011 that people, and (at the risk being labelled male chauvinist pig) particularly women, still go on like this. I thought this kind of attitude towards people who have no desire, or even choose not to have children, would have disappeared by now.

OMG you completly missed the whole point of that post.

I am going to go back over your posts here, I am not trying to change your mind - just challenge you point of view and maybe give you a different perspective.

Look at the above again, now read the post again in that context.

I didnt say this was my opinion or that I was trying to change the OP's point of view.

If you can joint the dots from there, good luck to you

kerryman12 · 02-02-2011 7:52pm

Hi OP

Kerryman, your post makes many, many assumptions about me and my life

Fair point it probably does.

but your post truly does read as though you are

Ok, all I can do is assure you that I am not. Its you choice I am certainly not trying bring you around to a particular way of thinking. What I was trying to do was play devils advocate to your point of view.

It also consists entirely of the arguments I have heard hundreds of times.

I couldnt have know that!

The part where I said 'I would like to want to have children' is not at all a contradiction

Fair enough, but it does ready that way to me.

Many of my reasons seem ridiculous to you, but they wouldn't to others

Yes they do, but as you can see many more of your reason seem completly sensible and logical to me.

I could similarly argue that being excited by a baby smiling at you is a 'completely invalid' thing to like about parenting

You could argue that, but lets face it that wouldnt make you right either, no more so that myself trying to argue the other side of the coin.

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to assume that my opinion of what is valid is the only correct one

I dont assume that for a second. These post's are just an opinion, and are just as likely to be wrong as right. But I wouldnt accept anyone tell me my opinion is wrong for me - no more that you would I am sure. I am most certainly not trying to say I think you are wrong - I dont, and in any event my opinion on that is irrevelant. I genuinly didnt want to come across as arrogant, you will just have to take my word on that.

Also, what I do for a living is not just 'some job'. I would rather not specify what it is, but I genuinely am more useful to people there than I would be elsewhere.

ok

I am happy that what I want is indeed what I want.

I am being 100% genuine when I say this - Good for you.

I am less happy about how people react.

I can fully realted to that, of course in a very different way.

I mean, if I said that I was single now and definitely wanted children at some stage, people wouldn't keep telling me that 'i'd never know' and not to be planning too far ahead

Very true.

Op my post has clearly p*ssed you off, for that I apologise, that was not my intention.

Best of luck to you in your future.

LegacyUser · 02-02-2011 8:15pm

kerryman12 wrote: »

You could argue that, but lets face it that wouldnt make you right either, no more so that myself trying to argue the other side of the coin.

I dont assume that for a second. These post's are just an opinion, and are just as likely to be wrong as right. But I wouldnt accept anyone tell me my opinion is wrong for me - no more that you would I am sure. I am most certainly not trying to say I think you are wrong - I dont, and in any event my opinion on that is irrevelant. I genuinly didnt want to come across as arrogant, you will just have to take my word on that.

Op my post has clearly p*ssed you off, for that I apologise, that was not my intention.

I'm not a bit annoyed. I just disagree, respectfully.

I also wasn't calling you arrogant... I was saying that it would be arrogant to assume that my views on what makes parenting unworthwhile would apply to everyone - but I can see how that might have come across. My apologies.

Finally, I understand that you couldn't have known that they were the same things that all parents say to me to convince me and appreciate that you weren't trying to change my mind. It's just difficult to hear the same things presented to me as though they're new on a regular basis!

Thank you for your reply.

ppink · 02-02-2011 8:26pm

Neyite wrote: »

Mary,
I would be coming from a slightly different viewpoint, but I totally understand your frustration. In my case, I have been trying for a child for over 18 months, and am at the starting blocks of fertility treatment. Aside from one family member and my partner (and some boardsies who dont know me in real life) nobody else knows. Because I am in my thirties I get asked all the time by my (large) family, and his family, and repeatedly. In my case, there are, as you can imagine, days were I would be ready to rip the fecking head off someone who tells me 'I better get a move on, or I'm not getting any younger'.

I think its an incredibly thick thing for people to ask. Whether you want children, and maybe cant, or cant stand the thought of children, its your choice, and its also very much your own business. The only person you need to discuss your reasons with is your partner for fairness in case a child free life does not appeal to him.

Next time someone asks, just give them a good look and say 'thats a bit personal, don't you think?

totally agree with this. in fact my OH gets quizzed constantly and now just tells people to mind their own bloody business.
i get the usual " oh have you no family?" is a really sorry for you voice.

daily occurence...in fact many "friends" I do not meet as a result of this and acquanintences I just say hello and keep going before they get a chance to start on me. Family...well some members are just completely avoided I'm afraid.

03-02-2011 8:58am

Neyite wrote: »

Mary,
I would be coming from a slightly different viewpoint, but I totally understand your frustration. In my case, I have been trying for a child for over 18 months, and am at the starting blocks of fertility treatment. Aside from one family member and my partner (and some boardsies who dont know me in real life) nobody else knows. Because I am in my thirties I get asked all the time by my (large) family, and his family, and repeatedly. In my case, there are, as you can imagine, days were I would be ready to rip the fecking head off someone who tells me 'I better get a move on, or I'm not getting any younger'.

I think its an incredibly thick thing for people to ask. Whether you want children, and maybe cant, or cant stand the thought of children, its your choice, and its also very much your own business. The only person you need to discuss your reasons with is your partner for fairness in case a child free life does not appeal to him.

Next time someone asks, just give them a good look and say 'thats a bit personal, don't you think?

:eek:
Neyite, it's situations like yours that make you really want to snap at people. They're so callous. :mad:
If I were you I'd ask them ... actually squiggler's idea is better - yell "why are you asking about my sex life" at them!!!

Squiggler · 03-02-2011 9:44am

OP, if you don't want kids then you don't want kids. The reasons are really not anyone else's business. Yes, there are some incredibly rude people in this country - when did it become ok to quiz someone on their sex life and fertility under the guise of inquiring whether they have family!?

I have female friends who don't want to have children, I have also friends who would love to have children and can't and up until recently I had resigned myself to the idea that I wouldn't marry or have children because I hadn't found a man that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. Everyone's situation is different.

My younger siblings all married before me, and my sister (5 years younger than me) has two children, the eldest is 6. I was frequently asked when I was going to get a move on, or similar. My response was to pretend I didn't hear them, if they asked again or continued I put on my best shocked face and said, loudly enough that anyone in earshot could hear, 'I'm sorry, I thought I must have misheard you the first time, you're not seriously asking me to discuss my sex life (or reproductive cycle) with you!'.

Rude people don't deserve a response, persistently rude people deserve the response they get.

Neyite, you have my sympathy. My husband and I were not not trying for just over a year and, for a number of reasons, including our ages, we'd begun to think maybe it wasn't going to happen for us. Even comments from well-meaning family members had begun to grate.

People should really learn to mind their own business

Distorted · 03-02-2011 1:32pm

I don't want kids either and I know many women, older and younger, who don't either. Very few people have commented to me on it, but like Sunflower27, it might be because I look young for my age. Or it might because they just respect my choices. My partner doesn't want kids as well. The reasons I don't want children are that the whole being pregnant and giving birth thing scares me, I don't want my body or my life to change, and I have so many more interesting, fun things to do in my life. And that whole busy household loads of children thing scares me too. If anyone says this is selfish, I'd say they were closed minded - its my life and I'm not under any duty to do anything with it that I don't want to do. There are already far too many people on this planet already.

I actually find its men that quite often want children by the time they reach a certain stage. I don't know, I just get the feeling so many people have kids because all their friends are doing it, and then once you have made that decision, you are stuck with it for the rest of your life.

Just thought I would support you, there are many, many women who don't want children and its perfectly normal. And sadly I know a few who have said to me, quite sincerely, that they wish they had never had kids and kept the life they had.

LegacyUser · 06-02-2011 5:26am

I don't want kids, and my family and friends know that now. But I'd say until I was 30ish, I hadn't got that clear in my head - I don't know that I'd ever acually sat down and thought well do I/don't I - I kind of assumed that's what people did, you know, get married and have kids. A bad breakup made me really sit down and think about how I wanted my life to be - and one absolute definite was not wanting kids.

I've just never had that ooh and aah thing about babies, and tbh I find listening to colleagues stories about the minutiae of their kids doings really tedious. It took me a while to feel able to say to people that I just didn't want kids, but I have to say that it was somewhat of a relief to admit that - to myself and others. Maybe I'm lucky with my friends, but I don't find it a problem having everyone know that I'm just not into having kids; even with those of my friends who do have them. I actually found that once I was open about admitting it, a few of my friends said the same.

I don't rubbish/question others decision to have kids; so I expect the same courtesy to be extended to my decision not to have them. I have found that a firm declaration of not wanting kids does mean that most poeple don't do the "oh you just haven't met the right man yet" - apart from my aunt at odd moments! So I tell her that when I meet the right man, he won't want kids either!

I would say though that it is not something that can be compromised on - I simply could not be with someone who wanted kids - and it wouldn't be fair on him either. And I know someone who is actually considering "forgetting" to take her pill, because "he'll come around when he sees the baby" - I think that is just the lowest of the low.

Anyway - surely there is room in the world for those that want to have kids, and those that don't. I'm perhaps lucky that my friends and family (mostly!) accept that they don't have to convince/badger someone with a differing view to conform to their view; but I think not thinking of being deliberately childless as an issue yourself goes a long way in terms of the perception of others.

eddison · 08-02-2011 3:18pm

Hi OP,

I'm not going to judge, or be ignorant, and cross. I understand where you are coming from. Ok you made the decision- fine. Your not going to have any children. But is there something at the back of your mind urging you to reconsider? Do you believe in God? If not, then please ignore the next few lines, but here are a few questions:
Is there a little soul waiting to be born to you?
Will what you gain replace what you loose?
Will you be more empty, or more filled?
Is there such a thing as destiny?

I'm afraid only you can answer these questions. You are right though, having a child is a great great sacrifice, to career, to freedom etc.
Question is, is the sacrifice worth it? Is that what you are asking?

Dark Phoenix · 08-02-2011 3:30pm

OP if you don't want kids then don't have kids you don't have to justify that decision to anyone but yourself and your current partner if you have one.

Personally I hate the archaic assumption in Ireland that some people have that all women just want to get married and have babies. As a teenager I had the greatest fear of that because it was never ever what I wanted and I felt it was what you had to do -and thankfully as I grew over I realised that its my decision to make. I have never wanted kids. I am 100% confident that I will never want kids.

People do have really rude habits of making comments and often even in a passive agressive sort of way as if its acceptable. Its not acceptable for people to expect you to discuss your sex life, to justify your reasons for not wanting kids or to come out with that old chestnut 'oh you will change your mind' as if they know you better than you know yourself.

LegacyUser · 10-02-2011 4:30pm

Hi there,

Thanks so mush for posting this topic. I am in my late thirties, married, and have never wanted children. When people rudely ask why not I usually say 'you know how you knew you wanted children, well that how I feel about not having them, it just is....' I do have to say I did question myself numerous times but only because I couldnt understand how the majority felt like they did want children and why I didnt feel the same.......I was so lucky to meet a wonderful man who felt exactly the same and was never pressured into changing my natural feelings (an ex did try which would have been a complete disaster). Myself and my husband lives are great (as I'm sure is the same for parents who always knew they wanted a family and were lucky enough to have one), there is absolutely nothing about having children I feel like Im missing out on (I do adore my neices, nephew and friends children but never looked at them longingly). I dont know if anything I have said helps in any way but just be yourself as thats what the key to happiness is. I wish you all the best and thanks again for posting.

wolfpawnat · 11-02-2011 1:06am

You may change your mind if the right man came along or indeed you may feel you want to have a child by yourself some day.

You might decide that children are never something you want to have, what's wrong with that?

It is healthier to never have kids than to have them and not actually want them, or resenting them!

Do what is right for you OP, not because of your work or what other people think is the norm. And don't be ashamed of how you feel, all of us are different.

I always wanted 3 kids, now I have one, I never want to have another, I am happy the way I am

I don't want children

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