Mechanics of the body when running.

Mac Cormaic

Was just reading up on some aspects of running such as cadence (strides per/min), posture (pushing stomack out and rear in), knee lift in strides (to 90 degrees) and arm-swing (moving forward instead of crossways).

Has anyone every altered any of these in their training and improved their times; or do people just let the body decide these mechanics of the body naturally? Just a thought for discussion.

RoyMcC

Good topic. I don't think the vast majority of road runners give the first thought to how they progress from A to B. Compare with track athletes where every training session will start with drills designed to reinforce proper technique, running posture etc.

Generally speaking, runners pick up the sport a little later in life. Most progress through trial and error. If they are coached then (I believe) it's rare for running technique to be taught. A pity because it can go hand in hand with regular training.

A few on here have gone through Chi training and the like though with good results.

ecoli

When I was younger my coach often observed that as i tired my arm movement when from swinging the arms to rolling my shoulders so in sessions it was something i consciously worked on.

Other than that i think that drills have a great importance in training as well as core for flexibility of movement. With you rear sticking out this actually can impair the height of knee lift for example though strong core can help with this.

However most runners develop a natural movement which altering can have terrible consequences on their performance.

My thoughts would be stay flexible and keep your core strong and you dont need to tinker too much with it. The time spent analyzing such things does not yield the benefits got from it in my opinion. Better off to spend that time focusing on optimum training

pgmcpq

In the book by Matt Fitzgerald "Brain Training for Runners" - there is a section where he talks about using "cues" while running - basically visualizing things like running on a manual treadmill where you "pull" the road, running on water, focusing on minimizing "bounce", ....etc.etc. I've found these to be quite useful to move to a more relaxed upper body, and keep a midfoot landing. Some of the ideas worked for me some did not. The benefit for me was that I realized how much energy I wasted tensing my upper body as I got tired.

BUT..... there is a risk of injury in trying to make any sudden shifts in style as you start of use muscles in new ways.

madon

I was always told how important arms forward were for balance and to keep your body from twisting (I'm sure there is a more technical reason but I was a kid when I was coached) Its something I am constantly nagging my son about and when he did start running 'properly' you could see the improvement when he was playing football, he was changing direction far quicker because he was better able to keep his balance.
(Saying all that though if I seen myself run i probably swing my arms from side to side too!)

RoyMcC

Good observations from the above posts. ecoli is right in that it can be fatal to try to 'improve' a seasoned runner's style - the 'improvement' will most likely have unintended knock-on consequences elsewhere. But I regularly watch good, successful runners and wonder how much better they might have been if they had had the benefit of technical coaching when starting out.

Arms - women in particular are prone to swinging arms across the body thus setting up hip rotation. Makes for horribly inefficient running and it's easily rectified.

I encourage runners to carry out little self-checks every so often on a run - eyes focused ahead not downwards, arms/shoulders relaxed and pulling through in the direction of the run, chest forwards, hips high, feet striking midfoot as a consequence. These should be constants for every runner.

spurscormac

I did the chi running course last year and found it good.
Picked up the Chi Running book a few weeks ago and am reading through it, a lot of it makes sense, its just a matter of putting it into practice.

I think that I might have even changed my gait due to it by becoming more of a mid-foot than heel striker, as my gait analysis now has me in a pair of neutral runners.

But as already said, don't make a whole raft of changes at once, gradually build them in and you'll lesson chances of injury of previously underused muscles.

huskerdu

RoyMcC wrote: »

I encourage runners to carry out little self-checks every so often on a run - eyes focused ahead not downwards, arms/shoulders relaxed and pulling through in the direction of the run, chest forwards, hips high, feet striking midfoot as a consequence. These should be constants for every runner.

Great advice. I have started doing this, but probably not enough.

I find it especially important if I am flagging, or facing a hill towards the end of a long run, when my running style can degenerate completely.

If I concentrate on my running style, the running is physically easier but also it helps mentally, as it focuses me on positive thoughts about running, banishing the negative ( I'm knackered, whose stupid idea was this anyway, not another bloody hill )

ss43

ecoli wrote: »

Other than that i think that drills have a great importance in training as well as core for flexibility of movement. With you rear sticking out this actually can impair the height of knee lift for example though strong core can help with this.

However most runners develop a natural movement which altering can have terrible consequences on their performance.

My thoughts would be stay flexible and keep your core strong and you dont need to tinker too much with it. The time spent analyzing such things does not yield the benefits got from it in my opinion. Better off to spend that time focusing on optimum training

How does the core work unless you're going to change your form? If it's weak, that is surely because you are not using it. If you're not using it strengthening it will just be a waste of energy. To make it worthwhile you would have to change your form to utilise this newly developed core strength.

RoyMcC wrote: »

Good observations from the above posts. ecoli is right in that it can be fatal to try to 'improve' a seasoned runner's style - the 'improvement' will most likely have unintended knock-on consequences elsewhere. But I regularly watch good, successful runners and wonder how much better they might have been if they had had the benefit of technical coaching when starting out.

Arms - women in particular are prone to swinging arms across the body thus setting up hip rotation. Makes for horribly inefficient running and it's easily rectified.

I encourage runners to carry out little self-checks every so often on a run - eyes focused ahead not downwards, arms/shoulders relaxed and pulling through in the direction of the run, chest forwards, hips high, feet striking midfoot as a consequence. These should be constants for every runner.

Chest forward? Why? Do you mean farther forward than your hips??

Arms should swing across the body, just not excessively. If you run, your feet move inwards (some people can run on a line, others close to it, I don't think anybody runs completely straight with feet landing hip width apart), your ams counter this.

Seres

i have to say my head is totally wrecked with trying to get my stride right so as to recover/prevent ongoing injury , if im tired or sick or somethin the whole thing goes to pot and my weak spot (S1 joint ) starts at me straight away :mad: , happened me today

RoyMcC

ss43 wrote: »

Chest forward? Why? Do you mean farther forward than your hips??

Sorry, misleading. Just nicely raised and (as you infer) in line with hips.

ecoli

ss43 wrote: »

How does the core work unless you're going to change your form? If it's weak, that is surely because you are not using it. If you're not using it strengthening it will just be a waste of energy. To make it worthwhile you would have to change your form to utilise this newly developed core strength.

Not necessarily.

Strong core muscles can actually stabilize your pelvis and lower spine effectively making a you more efficient in functional movement. While this may not result in performance improvement in everyone, it can have an effect on the on ground impact absorption

mloc123

Made two changes last year...

Cadence/foot strike and not crossing my arms.

The first meant I've not had a running injury in over a year and the second knowed about 15 sec/km off my easy running pace at the time.

ss43

ecoli wrote: »

Not necessarily.

Strong core muscles can actually stabilize your pelvis and lower spine effectively making a you more efficient in functional movement. While this may not result in performance improvement in everyone, it can have an effect on the on ground impact absorption

1) How would being more efficient in functional movement not improve performance???

2) These muscles have always been there. If they are weak you most likely have not been using them. Strengthening them will not mean that you will start using them unless you do something to adapt the way you run.

hot to trot

If you are on a cross trainer , your body should not be going up and down. try to keep your body still, at the same level and just take the strain on your legs. as if you are keeping your head at the same level. I believe that efficient running works like this too.
the tarahumara are often described as running as if they are riding a unicycle. Their bodies move little and the legs "pedal " away in small steps underneath them.
Dont wasate your energy bounding up and down especially on hills. I have tried to incorporate this recently on my uphill running and I find it much easier although it takes a bit to get used to it .

ss43

hot to trot wrote: »

If you are on a cross trainer , your body should not be going up and down. try to keep your body still, at the same level and just take the strain on your legs. as if you are keeping your head at the same level. I believe that efficient running works like this too.
the tarahumara are often described as running as if they are riding a unicycle. Their bodies move little and the legs "pedal " away in small steps underneath them.
Dont wasate your energy bounding up and down especially on hills. I have tried to incorporate this recently on my uphill running and I find it much easier although it takes a bit to get used to it .

Bolt moves up and down a bit. There could be something to it!

sconhome

If a bolt moves tighten it

ecoli

ss43 wrote: »

1) How would being more efficient in functional movement not improve performance???

2) These muscles have always been there. If they are weak you most likely have not been using them. Strengthening them will not mean that you will start using them unless you do something to adapt the way you run.

1) When efficient movement compromises power. The reason i put that in was just thinking about an anecdotal example of this one of the runners i know who is a bit of an enigma. Looking at his form he has a magnificent stride and has great aerobic strength yet under performs in race because he does not convert the power to coincide with his efficient movement. Dunno if there is research to back this up again this was mentioned as an anecdotal example which sprung to mind.

2) If you overcompensate in your technique because of weaknesses by correcting these can mean your form can change as a result of the strength of these core muscles. For example as you tire in a race their is a tendency to lean forward however strong core muscles can all to remain upright even when you start to feel fatigued

ss43

ecoli wrote: »

1) When efficient movement compromises power. The reason i put that in was just thinking about an anecdotal example of this one of the runners i know who is a bit of an enigma. Looking at his form he has a magnificent stride and has great aerobic strength yet under performs in race because he does not convert the power to coincide with his efficient movement. Dunno if there is research to back this up again this was mentioned as an anecdotal example which sprung to mind.

Fair enough you can be efficient but not effective. It would only compromise power you already had if you adjusted your movement patterns, would it not!?

I would contend that if it's not getting good results, it's not good form it just looks like it. That comes back to what good form actually is. There isn't much quality material out there though (or I haven't found it if there is).

2) If you overcompensate in your technique because of weaknesses by correcting these can mean your form can change as a result of the strength of these core muscles. For example as you tire in a race their is a tendency to lean forward however strong core muscles can all to remain upright even when you start to feel fatigued

That's not quite what I was getting it. In your example, strengthening core muscles extends the point at which they fatigue to compensation.

What I'm saying is the if muscles X and Y are dominant when it should really be Z strengthening Z will not make it dominant unless there is specific work done to make it dominant when actually running. The core work can't be supplementary to the running. It has to be incorporated into the running. Whatever strength you develop has to be consciously incorporated to be of use (in overcoming ineffective movement patterns)