systematic short time

louis346789

Hi all
i am looking for definition of "systematic short time" . worked for 5 yrs on five day week salary basis. one year ago due to recession we were put on three day weeks ( on 3/5 salary ). claimed JSB . Employer is now closed and we were made redundant. now looking to get cert from SW to confirm that the JSB received is not taxable. they say it is because we were not on "systematic short time" but casual short time. asked them why were were not on "systematic short time" and they seemed very vague about the reason. implied it was nearly like luck of the draw on who was entering the details at inital signing on. any help or similar experiences please

barneystinson

louis346789 wrote: »

Hi all
i am looking for definition of "systematic short time" . worked for 5 yrs on five day week salary basis. one year ago due to recession we were put on three day weeks ( on 3/5 salary ). claimed JSB . Employer is now closed and we were made redundant. now looking to get cert from SW to confirm that the JSB received is not taxable. they say it is because we were not on "systematic short time" but casual short time. asked them why were were not on "systematic short time" and they seemed very vague about the reason. implied it was nearly like luck of the draw on who was entering the details at inital signing on. any help or similar experiences please

Taken from http://www.welfare.ie/syndicatedcontent/en/social-welfare-payments/social-welfare-payments-and-work/jobseekers-benefit-and-work/ :

How work is assessed for Jobseeker's Benefit

If your days at work are reduced (temporarily)

If you normally work full-time
If you normally work full-time but short-time working is introduced by your employer you may get Jobseeker’s Benefit. Reduced working hours on a temporary basis is called systematic-short time working. You will get Jobseeker's Benefit for the days you don't work provided you meet the other conditions that apply to Jobseeker's Benefit, for example, you must not work more than 3 days per week.

If your days at work are reduced (permanently)

If you normally work full-time but your employer reduces the number of days you work on a permanent basis, you may get Jobseeker’s Benefit for the days you don’t work. You will be assessed for Jobseeker’s Benefit as a part-time worker.

An employer may initially introduce a reduction of work days on a temporary basis, but if there is no expectation of returning to full-time work with that employer you will be reassessed as a part-time worker. In this case, you must continue to look for full-time employment and your Jobseeker’s Benefit is taxable.


So basically OP it boils down to whether or not, at the time your hours were cut, there was a reasonable expectation that you were going to return to working full-time, or at what point it became apparent that your hours had been "permanently" reduced... Seems like it's a bit of a grey area, and really they shouldn't be splitting hairs with you over it once you can argue your case.

I am going to be having a discussion with DSP myself about my own situation in the next few weeks, as I was laid off for two weeks last year, which I believe constituted systematic short time working, as I handed in a letter at the time from my employer confirming that my hours were being reduced to nil, but that I would be returning to full-time work after the 2 week period. But I can see from PAYE anytime that the money has been taxed by way of a reduction of my tax credits and cut-off point, so I'll have to get DSP and/or Revenue to amend my details on record...

I don't know if you still have any means of getting your former employer to give you anything in writing, but if you could have it in writing from them that it was always intended to be a temporary measure, right up to the date you were notified of your redundancy, then really I don't see how they can argue with you.

Finally, and on a slightly separate note, if you look at the DSP site page that I have linked to, you will see that it says that if you are on systematic short-time, then you should be paid based on a 5-day social welfare week, so if you work 3 days, your claim should have been 2/5 (or 40%) of the weekly rate.

However, if as they suggest, they didn't have you down as systematic short-time, it'll mean they paid you based on a 6 day week, therefore you will have received 3/6 (50%) of the weekly rate. So in effect you will have received an overpayment of about €19.60 (€196 x 10%) for every week that you can successfully claim you were on systematic short time - just something for you to be aware of... if you win your argument, you may end up being owed a refund by Revenue, but owing a chunk of it to Social Welfare... So you'll need to make sure it is actually going to work out in your benefit before you go blazing in there!

louis346789

Thanks for the help in sorting this out. we were on 3/6 basis so I can see it was considered part time. have to do calculation. if change to 2/5 basis will owe the SW money and be eligible to get tax refund. i would guess its a no win situation.

allthedoyles

request a statement of earnings from sw .