Inappropriate response to homophobia by a teacher.

Coeurdepirate

I'm in 5th year, and today in Irish we were doing mock orals. The teacher was asking talking to someone about Gaelic and she said "An mhaith leat na héadaí?" and the study said "Níl.", the teacher said "Cén fáth?" and the student replied "mar uhh... mar.. mar tá siad homognéasach!" at which the teacher nearly died laughing.
(To anyone who's not Irish, the translations are
"Do you like the clothes?"
"No"
"Why?"
"Because they're gay.")

I thought that that was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate, moreso of the teacher and not the student. Shouldn't she be discouraging the stigma attached to being gay?

mikemac

Have you gone to your year head?

Coeurdepirate

No, I don't know what to say tbh.

Sugarfree

Jesus get a sense of humour.

Coeurdepirate

If somebody made a derogatory statement about black people it would be taken a lot more seriously.

Sugarfree

Coeurdepirate wrote: »

If somebody made a derogatory statement about black people it would be taken a lot more seriously.

Nonsense, its no wonder LGBT people feel isolated when there constantly feeling offended about the slightest of jokes.

GalwayGuy92

I dont find it derogatory in any way... Fashion is viewed as a gay interest and let's face it we are always impeccably dressed and fashionable:D. Yeah a lot of straight guys are more into fashion than a lot of gays (Paul Galvin springs to mind) but it's hardly homophobia o associate gays with stylishness??

Coeurdepirate

Sugarfree wrote: »

Nonsense, its no wonder LGBT people feel isolated when there constantly feeling offended about the slightest of jokes.

That's not really the case, I don't find jokes about gay people offensive, but don't you think authority figures should be trying to discourage stigma and abiding by the law?

Coeurdepirate

Okay, apparently I'm the only one who feels like the teacher shouldn't've done that, if a moderator could lock the thread it'd be great.

Endymion

What would you have the teacher do? It's meant to be a somewhat genuine conversation with an adolescent child, in Irish. Gay this, gay that, is pretty common.

This business of "If it had of been about the blacks" is actually more offensive. You're not finding whatever been said offensive in and of itself, you only care because of some perceived greater social importance places upon other groupings. Whatever your raging about is going to appear weak if you need to trot out the line "If it had of been someone else, blah".

Question, did you personally actually find the comment offensive. I don't really think you did.

Coeurdepirate

Endymion wrote: »

What would you have the teacher do? It's meant to be a somewhat genuine conversation with an adolescent child, in Irish. Gay this, gay that, is pretty common.

This business of "If it had of been about the blacks" is actually more offensive. You're not finding whatever been said offensive in and of itself, you only care because of some perceived greater social importance places upon other groupings. Whatever your raging about is going to appear weak if you need to trot out the line "If it had of been someone else, blah".

Question, did you personally actually find the comment offensive. I don't really think you did.

How is "if it had been about blacks" more offensive? I was using that as an example, about how the anti-discrimination laws are supposed to apply to all minority groups.

Chuchoter

To get to the point of what Coeurdepirate was saying, which is that teachers should not be accepting/encouraging language like that, is that this is incredibly common. More common than people ever seem to think. Just to list off a few things that have happened in my own school

• Home Ec teacher saying lesbians were really men, backed up with some tripe article from the daily mail. Cue the whole class taking it as gospel
• Several instances of students saying ******/dyke in direct earshot of a teacher
• Irish teacher saying, at a joke of two girls saying they were going out 'We don't do that here'
• Drama group cancelled over gay character
• Absolutely no mention of LGBT issues in an entire week of antibullying lectures.
• Project on LGBT issues refused by principal over being 'unsuitable', completely not the case.

wonderfulname

I personally wouldn't be offended. If I were the teacher I'd be amused by the students ingenuity, as was in all likelihood the case.

Don't take everything to heart it's not worth it.

Endymion

Coeurdepirate wrote: »

How is "if it had been about blacks" more offensive? I was using that as an example, about how the anti-discrimination laws are supposed to apply to all minority groups.

So I take it you didn't find the comment offensive?

As to why it's more offensive. The teacher demonstrated a lack of thought, you demonstrated a thought process which believes other's, in this case black people, are treated with more respect in society. If someone said to you, "You can say what you want, but the minute you say something about the gays, you're in trouble". You'd probably find that offensive, no?

wonderfulname

crayolastereo wrote: »

To get to the point of what Coeurdepirate was saying, which is that teachers should not be accepting/encouraging language like that, is that this is incredibly common. More common than people ever seem to think. Just to list off a few things that have happened in my own school

• Home Ec teacher saying lesbians were really men, backed up with some tripe article from the daily mail. Cue the whole class taking it as gospel
• Several instances of students saying ******/dyke in direct earshot of a teacher
• Irish teacher saying, at a joke of two girls saying they were going out 'We don't do that here'
• Drama group cancelled over gay character
• Absolutely no mention of LGBT issues in an entire week of antibullying lectures.
• Project on LGBT issues refused by principal over being 'unsuitable', completely not the case.

You see to me this is different to what the OP is on about, it is outright homophobia and needs to be addressed. Time to campaign the USI en-mass to push equality measures at second level as well as third? You will, you see, be lining their pockets in years to come (unless you wind up in DCU or saint pats that is...) so they should listen...

ElasticMan

Coeurdepirate wrote: »

I'm in 5th year, and today in Irish we were doing mock orals. The teacher was asking talking to someone about Gaelic and she said "An mhaith leat na héadaí?" and the study said "Níl.", the teacher said "Cén fáth?" and the student replied "mar uhh... mar.. mar tá siad homognéasach!" at which the teacher nearly died laughing.
(To anyone who's not Irish, the translations are
"Do you like the clothes?"
"No"
"Why?"
"Because they're gay.")

I thought that that was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate, moreso of the teacher and not the student. Shouldn't she be discouraging the stigma attached to being gay?

Hi, how are you =]? It's commendable that you want to do what you believe to be 'the right thing', but you really ought to get a life. Since when is laughing at something 'homophobia'? Is that how timid and PC this world has gotten, that a teacher laughs at a student saying clothes are gay, and what? Do you want to get him fired? Would that be your ideal scenario? Because he laughed at something? It's doubtful that he would have laughed at what the student said if it was said in English, but since it was said in Irish, and was somewhat unexpected, he laughed. Big deal. It was the student who said it, the man merely laughed. If I was there I would have laughed too. We all would have. I despise people like you, truely. Get that aforementioned life and grow a pair.
Goodbye

P.S. Stop shoving your new fangled ideas about the world down people's throats. (Pardon the crude statement 'shoving down peoples throats', it may have gay connotations considering the subject at hand. Hahaha, I know you don't like jokes about gays, but tough! People joke. It's part of life. You might not always like it, but you can't stop it. I'm going now and closing these brackets). Slan!

digme

Coeurdepirate wrote: »

I'm in 5th year, and today in Irish we were doing mock orals. The teacher was asking talking to someone about Gaelic and she said "An mhaith leat na héadaí?" and the study said "Níl.", the teacher said "Cén fáth?" and the student replied "mar uhh... mar.. mar tá siad homognéasach!" at which the teacher nearly died laughing.
(To anyone who's not Irish, the translations are
"Do you like the clothes?"
"No"
"Why?"
"Because they're gay.")

I thought that that was extremely unprofessional and inappropriate, moreso of the teacher and not the student. Shouldn't she be discouraging the stigma attached to being gay?

yes yes let your sexuality define you..... special treatment is that way.....
grow up and stop being so ****ing "anal"

wonderfulname

ElasticMan wrote: »

Hi, how are you =]? It's commendable that you want to do what you believe to be 'the right thing', but you really ought to get a life. Since when is laughing at something 'homophobia'? Is that how timid and PC this world has gotten, that a teacher laughs at a student saying clothes are gay, and what? Do you want to get him fired? Would that be your ideal scenario? Because he laughed at something? It's doubtful that he would have laughed at what the student said if it was said in English, but since it was said in Irish, and was somewhat unexpected, he laughed. Big deal. It was the student who said it, the man merely laughed. If I was there I would have laughed too. We all would have. I despise people like you, truely. Get that aforementioned life and grow a pair.
Goodbye

Careful now
Don't you remember being that age? Everything's personal. I agree with you, but chill!

digme wrote: »

yes yes let your sexuality define you..... special treatment is that way.....
grow up and stop being so ****ing "anal"

lol, pun intended?

Endymion

You despise people on the internet you haven't met? And yet you suggest Coeurdepirate is the one who needs to get a life :rolleyes:. What is it in your life you feel you can compensate for by attacking a 16/17 year old school child while hidding behind a computer screen.

digme

Endymion i love the subtle way your trying to come off as the knight/princess in shining armour

Aishae

a lot of young teens or kids say 'this so GAY' and the like. not necessarily referring to the gay community but rather they lack the appropriate vocabulary to voice whatever (usually bored!) frustration theyre having. although there are those who just say it cos they wanna sound cool. so i guess what im saying its, using the word gay in that kind of context is pretty much ignored.

i see what youre saying about someone in authority but i agree with the suggestion that maybe the teacher was just impressed that they even knew the word in irish and spoke well.

ElasticMan

Endymion wrote: »

You despise people on the internet you haven't met? And yet you suggest Coeurdepirate is the one who needs to get a life :rolleyes:. What is it in your life you feel you can compensate for by attacking a 16/17 year old school child while hidding behind a computer screen.

Another thing, children shouldn't be allowed on the internet!

P.S. I don't know if being 16/17 really qualifies as being a 'child' anymore.

P.S.S. I'm only a few years older than him anyway

Endymion

digme wrote: »

Endymion i love the subtle way your trying to come off as the knight/princess in shining armour

Thanks, I am to please. Also, you should understand the irony of telling a teenager he/she should have wisdom beyond their years, or as you so eloquently put it "grow up". I do believe that's what they're in the process of doing, walking before running.

ElasticMan wrote: »

Another thing, children shouldn't be allowed on the internet!

P.S. I don't know if being 16/17 really qualifies as being a 'child' anymore.

P.S.S. I'm only a few years older than him anyway

Ah, I see. Older, but far less mature. That's pretty gay dude.

Ambersky

Dont know whats going on in this LGBT forum Coeurdepirate but I dont think this is the place to go for advice or support on this issue.
If you have questions on the issue of homophobia in schools and advice on how a teacher should handle it try here.
http://www.glen.ie/education/resources.html
There has been a lot of work done in this area of late and a lot more to do apparently, but there have been changes.
Some of the people in BeLonG To would be great to have a chat with.
Dont take it personal the reaction to your thread, Its Not You Its Them.

rainbow kirby

Elasticman warned for personal abuse, both you and Digme are not to post in this thread again.

mikemac

Gay is ever changing
It might have been happy and carefree decades ago

But nowadays teenagers call lots of things gay and they don't mean homosexual.

If Arsenal or Man Utd put in a poor performance and lose they say "that's gay". Their friend buys a scrapheap of a Honda Civic and "that's gay"
Lots of things get called gay and in this case, the student wasn't impressed with the clothes and so responded

You are way oversensitive and missing the point

And why bring blacks into it?

ElasticMan

Endymion wrote: »

Ah, I see. Older, but far less mature. That's pretty gay dude.

The hypocrisy on display here is astounding. Endymion says this, and coedupirate thanks it, the same guy who a minute ago was lamenting inappropriate usage of the term 'gay'. What makes your teacher any different than Endymion? They're both men (sort of, in Endymions case), they both have sense of humours (again, debatable) and it could be argued that what Endymion said is much more offensive to 'the gays' than your teacher laughing at a throwaway comment from a student. (If 'the gays' are that precious to get offended at something like that).

And Endy, baby, I don't know if you meant this (I doubt it, you'd never be that clever) but saying I'm 'older, but far less mature' and then in the very next sentence to say that something is 'pretty gay', is umm.. shall we say, slightly ironic, no? Either it was a joke or you completely lack self awareness!

rc28

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Elasticman warned for personal abuse, both you and Digme are not to post in this thread again.

About time a moderator stepped in!

wonderfulname

ElasticMan wrote: »

The hypocrisy on display here is astounding. Endymion says this, and coedupirate thanks it, the same guy who a minute ago was lamenting inappropriate usage of the term 'gay'. What makes your teacher any different than Endymion? They're both men (sort of, in Endymions case), they both have sense of humours (again, debatable) and it could be argued that what Endymion said is much more offensive to 'the gays' than your teacher laughing at a throwaway comment from a student. (If 'the gays' are that precious to get offended at something like that).

And Endy, baby, I don't know if you meant this (I doubt it, you'd never be that clever) but saying I'm 'older, but far less mature' and then in the very next sentence to say that something is 'pretty gay', is umm.. shall we say, slightly ironic, no? Either it was a joke or you completely lack self awareness!

Obviously a joke, there's a post up there you seem to have missed...

Chuchoter

feelingstressed wrote: »

Gay is ever changing
It might have been happy and carefree decades ago

But nowadays teenagers call lots of things gay and they don't mean homosexual.

If Arsenal or Man Utd put in a poor performance and lose they say "that's gay". Their friend buys a scrapheap of a Honda Civic and "that's gay"
Lots of things get called gay and in this case, the student wasn't impressed with the clothes and so responded

You are way oversensitive and missing the point

And why bring blacks into it?

Not when a teacher is involved. Teachers are meant to set a precedent for behavior and attitudes. It would be a different matter if a student said it to another student, that the teacher condoned it is the issue.

Coeurdepirate

ElasticMan wrote: »

The hypocrisy on display here is astounding. Endymion says this, and coedupirate thanks it, the same guy who a minute ago was lamenting inappropriate usage of the term 'gay'. What makes your teacher any different than Endymion? They're both men (sort of, in Endymions case), they both have sense of humours (again, debatable) and it could be argued that what Endymion said is much more offensive to 'the gays' than your teacher laughing at a throwaway comment from a student. (If 'the gays' are that precious to get offended at something like that).

And Endy, baby, I don't know if you meant this (I doubt it, you'd never be that clever) but saying I'm 'older, but far less mature' and then in the very next sentence to say that something is 'pretty gay', is umm.. shall we say, slightly ironic, no? Either it was a joke or you completely lack self awareness!

crayolastereo wrote: »

Not when a teacher is involved. Teachers are meant to set a precedent for behavior and attitudes. It would be a different matter if a student said it to another student, that the teacher condoned it is the issue.

Crayola pretty much answered you.

But can I ask what you mean by this?

rainbow kirby

He'll be able to answer that in 7 days time when he returns from his holiday for ignoring a mod warning on-thread.

Insect Overlord

feelingstressed wrote: »

Gay is ever changing
It might have been happy and carefree decades ago

But nowadays teenagers call lots of things gay and they don't mean homosexual.

If Arsenal or Man Utd put in a poor performance and lose they say "that's gay". Their friend buys a scrapheap of a Honda Civic and "that's gay"
Lots of things get called gay and in this case, the student wasn't impressed with the clothes and so responded

You are way oversensitive and missing the point

And why bring blacks into it?

Quick Irish lesson:

"homognéasach" translates directly as homosexual.
"aerach" is the word that matches best with the English word "gay".

Now, the student in question probably didn't know that. But, whether they meant to or not, they said they didn't like the clothes because that'd be associated with homosexuality. Not "because they're, like, totally gay". There's a big difference. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but that's how I'd see it as an outsider looking in.

(Oh, and even if the teacher was trying to laugh it off and not make an issue of the "joke", they failed doubly by not teaching the appropriate vocabulary...)

Dr. Baltar

Not addressing the wider problem of homophobia in schools (I do honestly believe that Catholic Ireland has been very slow to begin campaigns against LGBT bullying) I'd like to comment on the instance in the OP.

I honestly don't see the problem. I have friends who are straight, friends who supported me through thick and thin in regards to my coming out. They still say "that's gay" if they don't like something and I understand that to mean. "That is not something good". I do not take it to mean "that is something that is not good, and seeing as friend X is also that word it means that he is not good too".

It all depends on context. And more importantly it is about intent. When this classmate of yours stated that the clothes were "gay" his intention (I presume) was not to offend 10% of the world's population. Rather his intention was to improve his Irish skills.

If you take offense to a word, then it is your problem. Words only have power if you allow them to.

Healium

crayolastereo wrote: »

• Drama group cancelled over gay character

Best days of your life :rolleyes:

Annasopra

I'm sorry - I don't find people saying that's so gay acceptable - why do we accept that people equate a word that defines us with something bad and negative

Chuchoter

Healium wrote: »

Best days of your life :rolleyes:

What?

Insect Overlord

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Quick Irish lesson:

"homognéasach" translates directly as homosexual.
"aerach" is the word that matches best with the English word "gay".

Now, the student in question probably didn't know that. But, whether they meant to or not, they said they didn't like the clothes because that'd be associated with homosexuality. Not "because they're, like, totally gay". There's a big difference. Maybe I'm just being pedantic, but that's how I'd see it as an outsider looking in.

I'd see it as "totally gay" tbh. That said, I find it irritating to hear

(Oh, and even if the teacher was trying to laugh it off and not make an issue of the "joke", they failed doubly by not teaching the appropriate vocabulary...)

That's true

rochey84

Hey guys,

I'd be inclined to agree with Johnny and the OP, just cause something is the social norm does not make it acceptable and teacher in question should be made aware of how his/her reactions reflects on the schools position on LGBT issues. When I was doing my apprenticeship as a cabinet maker in a particular 3rd Level college in Dublin, we had a subject called general studies, which did exaclt what it says on the tin, so 1 day we're doin a bit on equality law and the lecturer tells us the story of a person he knows that was sacked for being gay, if he had stopped there that would have been fine but he went on to tell us that he was sacked for being *insert as many homophobic slurs as possible* even though he wasn't talking about me, I felt myself sinking as low as possible in my chair as I felt he was talking about me. After the class I took the issue up with his boss as he was in a position of power and he effiectifly told a class of young apprentices that it was ok to use language like this. It ended up that I had to have a face to face with this lecturer and confront him, he apologised profusely and made a public apology to the class for his inappropriate language.

So I say fair play OP for standing up for your rights and the rights of the community

BanzaiBk

Bit of a strange scenario for the teacher too. Shock could have been a large reason why the teacher laughed, it was probably the least likely response.

I'm not condoning it btw, just being reasonable.

3DataModem

Someone please post a link to the SouthPark song "Saving the rainforest is totally gay."

Teddy_Picker

crayolastereo wrote: »

• Home Ec teacher saying lesbians were really men, backed up with some tripe article from the daily mail. Cue the whole class taking it as gospel

I find that scandalous, crayola! :mad: That a public servant, who is paid to educate teenagers would abuse their position to:
(a) broadcast their bigoted, offensive opinions and
(b) even worse, in my opinion, present them as fact in an attempt to generate contempt, is reprehensible in the extreme.

Was the teacher reprimanded over this?

Endymion

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I'm sorry - I don't find people saying that's so gay acceptable - why do we accept that people equate a word that defines us with something bad and negative

Social etiquette. Failing to make an issue out of something is not the same as agreeing with it. If your every day life involves picking an argument with everyone you felt was being crass, then you'd probably come across to others as a bit of a stick in the mud. Referring to things as "gay" isn't OK, nor is it acceptable, but in real life you need to pick your battles.

Aard

I may have this completely wrong, but was the topic not the clothes worn by Gaelic footballers? Imo, they are pretty homoerotic, if not exactly homosexual.

Einhard

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I'm sorry - I don't find people saying that's so gay acceptable - why do we accept that people equate a word that defines us with something bad and negative

Because offence should only be taken, IMO, when offence is intended. I think there's far too much of a tendency for people to overreact to poerceieved slights, when in fact nothing of the sort is intended. And, even if the comments were inappropriate, they were far from homophobic which is what the OP alleges. If that word is overused and abused, as in the original post, then, like "racist", it will soon lose its power. This is something which the gay community should be concerned about.

Annasopra

No, I don't agree with that; offence can be taken when it is not intended and in some cases it should - I don't find people saying 'that's so gay' is acceptable - my sexual orientation is not something negative and I ask friends not to use that phrase

bodice ripper

i find the word dyke makes my skin crawl. Should lesbians not use it for thmselves?



*edit, i don't care if people describe things as gay. However the teacher should have said something, if only to say being flippant in an exam wasn't a hot idea.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Agree with the OP.

Its just not on that ''gay'' is used as a description for things that are disliked. It shouldn't even be used for things that are girly(which is how it started off as derogatory language), eg "I'm not wearing that pink t-shirt cos its gay"

What should really be said is "I'm not wearing that pink t-shirt cos its camp"

The teacher should have known better, the only mitigating factor is that the use of the term in Irish might have caught him/her off guard and they laughed before they realised the implications.

foggy_lad

crayolastereo wrote: »

Not when a teacher is involved. Teachers are meant to set a precedent for behavior and attitudes. It would be a different matter if a student said it to another student, that the teacher condoned it is the issue.

Teachers cant be expected to pick up on every little remark made in a class and surely cant be expected to act as robots who have instant recall to every minute detail of their training.

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Bit of a strange scenario for the teacher too. Shock could have been a large reason why the teacher laughed, it was probably the least likely response.

I'm not condoning it btw, just being reasonable.

Maybe the teacher was homosexual and laughing at the stupidity/innocence of the little sh1ts dah'lings they have to face every day in order to pay the mortgage?

Chuchoter

foggy_lad wrote: »

Teachers cant be expected to pick up on every little remark made in a class and surely cant be expected to act as robots who have instant recall to every minute detail of their training.

So professionalism is old hat now is it? I fully expect a teacher to pick up on these things just as much as I'd expect them to pick up on someone slagging someone over hair or weight in an answer as I have see done.

foggy_lad

crayolastereo wrote: »

So professionalism is old hat now is it? I fully expect a teacher to pick up on these things just as much as I'd expect them to pick up on someone slagging someone over hair or weight in an answer as I have see done.

well all i can say in response to this is put yourself into a good teachers shoes and see how you manage handling 32 noisy arrogant irritating abusive intimidating threatening and downright nasty teens. many are very well behaved in classes but there are always those just waiting for some opportunity to reduce the class to fits of laughter because they are bored or just too ignorant to sit and take the education being offered to them.