Where is photography going?

32finn

Apologies for this everyone but, i feel this could turn into a bit of a rant!!

As the title say's, where do you see photography heading?
I know that the digital age has made photography more accessible to everybody and i think that is a good thing, but, as a profession/career is photography now been undermined or taken for granted??

Why do i ask? I recently gave a couple that i know, albeit not very well a price for there wedding, which at first they seemed happy enough with.
I have since got a call from the bride to say she has hired someone who will give her the same package i offered for 320 euro!
The package being full day coverage and an album!!!! Now ill admit that is a hell of a lot cheaper that what i priced it.
I don't know the nitty gritty details of the package but this guy is going to travel from Louth to Kildare and provide an album for this!

I know it's been on tread here numerous times before about someone who decides to get themselves a decent camera and suddenly are professional photographers.
And don't get me wrong, i understand that we all had to start somewhere and we all need to build up portfolio's to get going, trust me i've been there!

I guess what im trying to get across here is, is it too easy to pick up a camera and enter the world of photography?
If for this reason is photography for you not maybe as appreciated as much as it should be?

God damn, i knew i would start ranting sorry!

magicbastarder

just to address the lower price they were quoted; i'd warn them to triple check yer man's credentials.

kelly1

I suppose it's like any trade/profession. You'll always have the cowboys who've had no training calling themselves professional.

How could you do a wedding for €320 and make a living? He can't be a pro. There could be 2 days of processing a wedding shoot!

smelltheglove

We did all start somewhere but lets be honest, if they want a beginner fair enough they prob wouldnt appreciate your work as much as you would.

I once had an issue like this. I was giving a disc only package on a special offer for ceremony and an hour photography on ceremony site for 550. I got a call saying they found someone to do it for 250 and would I beat it. I said no, good luck and enjoy. Guess what, I got the wedding. They decided that considering they would be dealing with a beginner who didnt know anything about weddings they wanted to go with me and even ended up buying the album too afterwards.

Dont beg for the busiess and let them know if they are happy to go with a beginner fair enough, that you offer themn a professional insured service of professional quality and let them make up their own mind.

32finn

I did voice my concerns to the bride when she called me, but she seems very sure that he is ok!!

nice1franko

Any oul ejit with a car could be a taxi driver but... wait. That's a bad example :pac:

Seriously, it's the same thing with websites at the moment. It is *possible* to get a site you're happy with a few hundred euro but more often than not you're going to have get it done properly a bit further down the line. Obviously can't do that with wedding photos... wish them the best of luck.

Waking-Dreams

It’s the same situation regarding the music industry. Because the tools of productions have been “democratised” and everyone can get stuck in, it has caused a flood of over-saturation and “ruined” things for many.

That said, it’s just the way things go. There are going to be side effects that come with new technology. Some 500,000 bank tellers lost their jobs when ATM’s first came out but the world has moved on since then.

Humans will always appreciate art and music, just not in the same numbers as before because there are so many entertainment choices and distractions to choose from.

And I do find some of the complaints towards amateurs, be they photographer or musician, to be contradictory in nature because the complaints often come from other amateurs with a competitive streak and a sense of entitlement.

You see this regarding many of the complaints/rants aimed at how over-saturated the music industry has now become, or how much harder it is to make headway. We’ve all heard the following at some time or another:

“Now everyone and their dog has a band they play in, a MySpace account, and are cluttering up the Internet and the rest of industry with their piss-poor music, making it harder for good bands like us.”

But who are “bands like us”? If you think about it, the complainers are moaning about people just like them. Now, I know professionals have expressed their concern because they are now competing with FREE services and how a whole generation of enthusiasts who are not “as dedicated to their craft” and have “cheapened” things and made it worse for everyone.

I say, do your best to get on with it and try to carve out a niche for yourself instead of trying to swim against the tide. And if you discover that you can’t make a living from your passion, just remember that conspicuous success only happens to a tiny minority. We can’t all have our wishes come true. Just be thankful you can actually afford something like a camera, whereas thousands/millions of people will be going to bed tonight hungry.

There are worse things in this world than the plight of photographers and musicians.

32finn

Well that turned out well in the end Rachel. I'll keep my fingers crossed but i wont hold my breath, lol.
Anyway her date is no longer available if she was to change her mind.

AnCatDubh

a good thread (yay!, feeling better about the place after the last weeks postings)

32finn wrote: »

Apologies for this everyone but, i feel this could turn into a bit of a rant!!

it is said with passion therefore not a rant

As the title say's, where do you see photography heading?
I know that the digital age has made photography more accessible to everybody and i think that is a good thing, but, as a profession/career is photography now been undermined or taken for granted??

Yes, (and No) - Gear gets you maybe 50% there. Spend what is now a little money and you are 50% a photographer.

The question I think is can you make the other 50%?

Why do i ask? I recently gave a couple that i know, albeit not very well a price for there wedding, which at first they seemed happy enough with.
I have since got a call from the bride to say she has hired someone who will give her the same package i offered for 320 euro!
The package being full day coverage and an album!!!! Now ill admit that is a hell of a lot cheaper that what i priced it.
I don't know the nitty gritty details of the package but this guy is going to travel from Louth to Kildare and provide an album for this!

There comes a time when it is good to be able to walk away and wish your potential client well in their future.

I know it's been on tread here numerous times before about someone who decides to get themselves a decent camera and suddenly are professional photographers.
And don't get me wrong, i understand that we all had to start somewhere and we all need to build up portfolio's to get going, trust me i've been there!

What is also a little scary is that there is no particular measure. You/Me for €3,200 or the brides professional for €320. (all figures not based in reality of course), The thing is, there is little measure of whether you/me are worth it or not (of course we are :rolleyes:) and maybe the €320 photographer is damn talented, just knows little about being in business / having to earn a living - or maybe they don't.

The economics of what is being suggested doesn't make an expectation of a high quality end product (album, that is rather than the actual photographs) but some brides don't want or aren't able to presently afford this - they may have the images and sort out a substantial album later on perhaps.

I guess what im trying to get across here is, is it too easy to pick up a camera and enter the world of photography?

Yes, absolutely.

If for this reason is photography for you not maybe as appreciated as much as it should be?

Yes, but I blame facebook not the cheap good cameras. The growing perception of good photography to the wider mass population is that photography is what appears in their friends photo stream on facebook. Invariably the photo streams on facebook are more of a technical accomplishment of being able to upload something to facebook than the ability to take a great photograph.

Chalk it up and move on. There is a growing tendency and acceptance of the €320 offer. Wish you would be client well and offer to assist if they need anything in the future.... (you would name your price at a later stage).

You need to differentiate yourself. That's all. Such that brides will want to hire you because you do something different than the rest that she can get for €320. I suspect her perception of your offering is that she was getting photographs of the day and for the alternate offer of €320 she could also get photographs of the day. No reason (in her mind) to go any further than €320.

I also think (with any business, photography included) that there comes a point at which the more you are able to charge depends on what the market will pay. You are differentiated at that point. You have a unique proposition. Whether you charge €2,000 or €15,000 makes little difference to the end product. The differentiator here is that the market wants you which is nice while it lasts.

smelltheglove

Great analysis waking dreams, I see where you are coming from as my husband is in the music industry, oh and so is 32finns wife haha so yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The only way you will make it even when there are much cheaper alternatives is with quality, business skills and personality. Like the band thing there are young lads going out doing gigs for a few crates of beer in return, do they fill the pubs no, they dont, its the ones with experience a tight set and stage presence that fill the place, transfer that to photography, the successful ones tend to have great business skills, constant high quality images and be able to mix in with all types of people to make the experience enjoyable for couples and guests.

Now off to work on my busiess skills, I think Im fecked there;)

AnCatDubh

kelly1 wrote: »

I suppose it's like any trade/profession. You'll always have the cowboys who've had no training calling themselves professional.

Ah, but being devil's advocate - they could actually be very good.

How could you do a wedding for €320 and make a living?

You can't. But photographers (artists) aren't known to be the best business people in the world

He can't be a pro. There could be 2 days of processing a wedding shoot!

From camera to photobox album.

If you currently had lots of time on your hands, you might well like to spend the day living the dream, spend the evening uploading the output into photobox, spend €40 on their 'album', and have €280 to add to your income (which i'm guessing if you had the time on your hands, might be doubling what you will receive for the week). The economic of this are good - 100% increase on your income.

Not saying it's right or good or proper, but I think it works for some people.

One would have to be suspicious about tax compliance, insurance compliant, and the other trimmings that they should have in place - full back up gear, etc..

32finn

That's a fair point Waking-Dreams and i see where you are coming from.

But i am lucky enough that i am busy for the year ahead and that i don't have to swim against the tide.
I am also aware that people are going to be cheaper than me and vice-versa, but for someone to be so much cheaper!!!
The albums i offer cost more than 320 euro alone, never mind the few days work that goes into a wedding also.

squareballoon

There are some people that really 'get' good images and are willing to pay a professional to take them and others who leave gushing comments about photos that are really dire on the likes of facebook.
There are some people who will never see faults like unflattering angles, noise, direct flash pin lights, chopped limbs, orange skin processing et al. They will just be happy that they got 200 photos of the day on dvd.

I recently felt my blood pressure rise to nearly boiling when someone scathingly told me that a photo studio had charged €250 for one framed photo and that it wasn't like it was that hard to take a good photo of her children because they are gorgeous. Of course when questioned she had spent 2 hours in the studio, with lighting and had been given 75 images to choose from. Not to mention that if she had taken a snap with her own camera it would have cost €120 to frame anyway so in fact she had spent 130 for approx 10 hours of someone's time.

I think people are putting less value on photographs now that digital photography is so accessible but I like to think that there are still enough people that recognise the work and talent that goes into creating art through photographs and are willing to pay for it like any other art form.

PCPhoto

32finn wrote: »

That's a fair point Waking-Dreams and i see where you are coming from.

But i am lucky enough that i am busy for the year ahead and that i don't have to swim against the tide.
I am also aware that people are going to be cheaper than me and vice-versa, but for someone to be so much cheaper!!!
The albums i offer cost more than 320 euro alone, never mind the few days work that goes into a wedding also.

the chances are this "photographer" has little or not concept of his/her own worth ...or may indeed only be a fabrication of the bride's imagination in an effort to get you to fit into her budget.

Lots of weddings at the moment are restricted by budget - and some brides/grooms consider photography as a bit of a luxury due to its expense and "relative" ease at which people can take photographs.... for me its one of the most important parts - this is what you will be showing off to your family/friends. (I'm not a wedding photographer and have only shot friends weddings - reportage style as a backup).

NOTE: It says a lot when a guest at a wedding has better gear than the working photographer !!

Brides/Grooms in general do not know what they want for a wedding ... formal pics, reportage style, classic, artistic photos, magazine style photoshoot - so when they book a photographer they expect the photographer will be able to perform and satisfy their needs.

€320 for a wedding seems impossible - maybe you should give them a checklist of questions to ask their photographer to make sure they do not waste money on a chancer, it could be very embarrassing for them if their day is ruined.... you should ensure that they know they can sue their photographer if they do not perform on the day - to the high standard agreed before, if a client is disappointed with the images and can show they are not near the "quality" used in order to get the client in the first place - they can be liable for damages.

- public liability, professional indemnity insurance - do they have it ?

- experience, ask various questions about lighting techniques or shots you want to do/get ...if the photographer is struggling or bluffing you will notice this in his/her body language.

- what exactly will they get in their package? what will the album be? how many prints can they expect, will the photographer be editing the images ? does the photographer know much about post processing techniques?

- even go as far as to ask the photographer if he plans on shooting external lights or flash...off camera flash ? what lenses/body does the photographer have?

Yes - you can do a good job with inferior lenses but if someone says they are shooting a wedding on an 18-55mm kit lens or a 7-8yr old digital SLR you know straight away they will be chancing their arm.

stcstc

after a certain point you just have to say no you cant do it for that much.

i hear it all the time from my pro clients that they are finding this happen to them a lot.


I do find photographers are as bad though, they will compromise prints and frames etc to save a few quid too

artyeva

i wonder where this automatic knee-jerk response that 'if yer cheap yer most likely crap' comes from? i think it's a self preservation thing maybe? none of us here [maybe the op has?] have seen examples of the 320 guy's work, yet i get an underlying current here that because he's cheap then he must be crap... these kinds of threads always pique my interest cause of that assumption. be it true or untrue.

it all comes down to the expectations and needs of the client, surely? the 'product' that 320 guy will be delivering is a completely different 'product' than op would deliver - so it stands to reason they would be different prices.

if i want a 3 door runaround car and go into a garage and get offered a micra for €800 and it's perfect for my needs and wants, the BMW dealership up the road comes accross as pretty petty if they feel they have to complain and/or ridicule me, or the garage that sold it to me.

if you're pitching to a client who decides to go for 320 guy then they were probably never going to hire you in the first place - because they're in the market for something that costs €320 and not whatever you charge. you weren't any more or less right for them - they just weren't the customer for you.

gbee

The government were supposed to 'recognise' professional photographers several years ago, they never did, so yes anyone can call themselves professional photographers.

The 'album' in this case is most likely a photo book which can be purchased 'somewhere' for under €50. These guys simply send off the SD card and get the album back in a week run through the auto selection at the site.

They are not too bad and if one took care to have the exposure really, really right the results are even good.

As you know, to put a conventional album together today is running at €600 and you need your wages on top of that.

I know [loosely] of a few guys doing these deals but usually it's more like €500 but they tell me to take any money and sell pictures to the quests to make up the difference. And this is perhaps the carrot. You'll probably lift €50 a pop from guests for a 10x8" mounted print.

AnCatDubh

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Ah, but being devil's advocate - they could actually be very good.

artyeva wrote: »

i wonder where this automatic knee-jerk response that 'if yer cheap yer most likely crap' comes from?

But..., but...., but....., but.....

squareballoon

well if you're good and cheap don't undersell yourself and charge what you're worth.

artyeva

and...and....and... here's another point :pac:

maybe maybe maybe the couple just don't put as much importance on their wedding day as op does [DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNNNNN] but again - that doesn't make them wrong, just the wrong fit for 32finn!

to some people a wedding is the blah blah blah, the end of the world if they don't have every penny they and their local credit union have to throw at it. spend the price of a runaround micra on an album so i can show my aunties when they come to visit that i was the most beautiful blah blah blah in the whole world...

for other people, it's just another day. sure you might get dressed up, do something out of the ordinary - celebrate with family or friends - but at the end of the day it's just another day. you get some nice photos and stick them in an album or do up a photobook and keep perspective on what you deem important in life.

pixbyjohn

Because of there being so many over priced wedding photography packages on offer there will always be room for more realistically priced packages.
Digital photography has certainly made its mark in this area of the market.

Waking-Dreams

32finn wrote: »

That's a fair point Waking-Dreams and i see where you are coming from.

But i am lucky enough that i am busy for the year ahead and that i don't have to swim against the tide.
I am also aware that people are going to be cheaper than me and vice-versa, but for someone to be so much cheaper!!!
The albums i offer cost more than 320 euro alone, never mind the few days work that goes into a wedding also.

When I said, do your best, I didn’t mean to imply you should drop your prices or take any low offer because that’s the necessity of competition. There’s no harm in walking away too because your time is worth something. Some musicians will not play for less than a certain amount of money, even if that then means another group who will play for absolutely nothing gets to take their place instead. I guess, what I am trying to say is that despite the fact that it’s getting harder to make money at this game, this is true for so many trades. And even if you protest and kindly state you can’t do a job for such a low price, there’s almost always 10 other people who will take your place. I’m not commenting on their skills mind you, just their willingness to do a job for a cheap price. And as this trend continues we’ll see a reduction in the amount of professional photographers, all chasing a shrinking number of clientele. It's a shame but that's just the way the world works.

Borderfox

One way I have sold myself better is to bring prints to meet a prospective bride, no computers just a load of 18x12 prints mounted and this seems to hit the mark in terms of the couple seeing the quality a professional photographer produces. I prices myself very keenly for a standard digital package and have a very good conversion rate, but a lot of that comes down to getting on with the couple when I meet them and (not referring to you John) I give them what they want not a package that suits me. If a couple wants to go with a cheaper alternative then they arent the client for you.

stcstc

i think some photographers will take sample albums with them

and give people a little choice, say 3 diff albums

budget, mid priced and posh

but if people really want something for way way less, then you can make any cash at it, it generally aint worth doing

a friend of mine is getting married next year, i gave her 3 names of photogs who are clients, after i said i wasnt doing it,

when she looked at the prices she was shocked by how much it was, but only as she never knew before how much it is

she did say it was almost as much as the civil service in the venue is costing

Mountainsandh

artyeva wrote: »

and...and....and... here's another point :pac:

maybe maybe maybe the couple just don't put as much importance on their wedding day as op does [DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNNNNN] but again - that doesn't make them wrong, just the wrong fit for 32finn!

.

+ 1
I'm into photography now so obviously I would probably be more picky or inspired today, but when I got married, even though I wanted to have everything right on the day, photos weren't a big deal for me (or OH). We didn't really care that much tbh. We wanted a record of the day, and something a bit more reliable than aunty Sharon or Uncle Pat's pics, but not the arty stuff either. To us the experiences of the day were more important than the images of it to show off afterwards, if you know what I mean.
So maybe it is just fair that there should be prices and talents/potential to match every expectation.
We had no problem forking out for proper family portraits recently enough, because at that moment in time we wanted the quality stuff.

bernard0368

I am sure there will be a lot more people charging low prices for jobs in the future. I see it every day in my line.
Chances are the 320 guy could be doing the job cheap for the reference or just to boost an income. The quality may or may not be good but this is going to be the future. Hard times help fuel the cash economy and people will do crazy things to make a few euro. In this situation the worst that can happen is one Pi**ed off bride. In my line it is life and death and you would not believe what is going on.
Whilst this is no comfort for the people making a living out of weddings, in the long run I have found that quality always wins out in the end.

As someone starting out, I'd be happy to cover a wedding for little or nothing. I'd cover any costs the wedding was gonna give me, but would be more interested in trying to spread my name, than make a profit.

However, I am a formal person. I would tell the bride/groom that I never did a wedding before, the quality would certainly not be on par with a professional who has experience, and I'd have a quickly typed-up contract signed stating such.


I think there's a big distinction between a "Photographer" and a "bloke with a camera". I think the issue here, isn't that one photographer is cheaper than the next. It's that bloke with a camera is cheaper than a photographer. Bloke with a camera takes the wedding on, knowing little or nothing about photography, takes a load of crap shots, and then the bride and groom hate photographers in general because of that one guy chancing his arm.

I was actually talking to a woman before, who said she wouldn't bother with a photographer, because the photos of her sister's wedding were not up to much, so after the wedding, she is just gonna get photos that friends take during it emailed to her.

We all know what Facebook photos tend to look like, so I can only imagine how poor this 'photographer' must have been to leave that impression on someone. Apparently he cost a fair few quid, too (though I don't know how much).

ThOnda

The democratisation of photography (making it available to broader population) allows persuasion of various categories and nuances of this process. Therefore there are new ideas, processes, techniques and uses coming up all the time. It is not to be worried (because I don't make money from photography), just to see what is good for me and what I could do I would like to do.
And as everywhere and as stated by many above, professional in the purest meaning of the world, will insure delivery of the final product with expectable quality.

PCPhoto

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone starting out, I'd be happy to cover a wedding for little or nothing. I'd cover any costs the wedding was gonna give me, but would be more interested in trying to spread my name, than make a profit.

However, I am a formal person. I would tell the bride/groom that I never did a wedding before, the quality would certainly not be on par with a professional who has experience, and I'd have a quickly typed-up contract signed stating such.


I think there's a big distinction between a "Photographer" and a "bloke with a camera". I think the issue here, isn't that one photographer is cheaper than the next. It's that bloke with a camera is cheaper than a photographer. Bloke with a camera takes the wedding on, knowing little or nothing about photography, takes a load of crap shots, and then the bride and groom hate photographers in general because of that one guy chancing his arm.

I was actually talking to a woman before, who said she wouldn't bother with a photographer, because the photos of her sister's wedding were not up to much, so after the wedding, she is just gonna get photos that friends take during it emailed to her.

We all know what Facebook photos tend to look like, so I can only imagine how poor this 'photographer' must have been to leave that impression on someone. Apparently he cost a fair few quid, too (though I don't know how much).

Fair play to you for making sure that you tell the bride/groom that you may not be giving professional results (that seems to be where the problem exists - lesser photographers dont do this and "bluff" their way into doing the job, like I said earlier most couples don't know what they want in a wedding photographer.

- but I still think you should never do it for free....it may not be about profit but you should at least cover costs and some money for your time at the wedding.

At what point do you start to charge ?

I'm not a wedding person - so don't know very much about what is considered standard (I'm actually dreading when I get engaged and need to find a photographer)

Here's hoping you get plenty of paid wedding photography work....as regards the "spreading your name" .... the quality of your work should do this....not that you did the job cheap/free.

Promac

Have to agree with MountainsandHeather. Some people just aren't into the wedding photography stuff. It's great to have decent photographs taken on decent gear but not everyone wants the usual suited groom plus meringue in some "picturesque" location doing the same pose as a billion other people in the same wedding album as a bajillion other people.

I got married last month and didn't spend a penny on photos. I've got about 500 photos that I like though.

32finn

Here's hoping you get plenty of paid wedding photography work....as regards the "spreading your name" .... the quality of your work should do this....not that you did the job cheap/free.[/QUOTE] To quote PCPhoto

+1

DougL

Borderfox wrote: »

One way I have sold myself better is to bring prints to meet a prospective bride, no computers just a load of 18x12 prints mounted and this seems to hit the mark in terms of the couple seeing the quality a professional photographer produces.

That's a great idea. There is nothing like seeing mounted/framed prints.

DougL

This may seem a little harsh, but the days of just buying some expensive gear and being able to provide better pictures than the man on the street are gone (for now). 15 years ago, when I last did wedding photography, we turned up with our Hasseblads and were certain that we had the best gear in the room...that just doesn't hold true anymore.

You have to add something more, and you have to communicate that to the customer so they'll book you. If you can't add that value, or if you can't communicate that value to the customer, you're in trouble.

I can't say I envy wedding photogs at all. That sh*t is too much like hard work. I like having my Fridays/Saturdays to myself and my family.

Promac

DougL wrote: »

This may seem a little harsh, but the days of just buying some expensive gear and being able to provide better pictures than the man on the street are gone (for now). 15 years ago, when I last did wedding photography, we turned up with our Hasseblads and were certain that we had the best gear in the room...that just doesn't hold true anymore.

You have to add something more, and you have to communicate that to the customer so they'll book you. If you can't add that value, or if you can't communicate that value to the customer, you're in trouble.

I can't say I envy wedding photogs at all. That sh*t is too much like hard work. I like having my Fridays/Saturdays to myself and my family.

Absolutely agree - I used to envy people who got to take pictures for a living.

Borderfox

I love every one I participate at from the start to the end, such a diversity of light/work/people/locations really keep me on my toes. I love a long day's work and have my editing down to a tee now. In terms of providing better pictures a good photographer will always (in theory) as they dont have the emotional connection to the couple as the guests have. I really and honestly am living a dream

DougL wrote: »

This may seem a little harsh, but the days of just buying some expensive gear and being able to provide better pictures than the man on the street are gone (for now). 15 years ago, when I last did wedding photography, we turned up with our Hasseblads and were certain that we had the best gear in the room...that just doesn't hold true anymore.

You have to add something more, and you have to communicate that to the customer so they'll book you. If you can't add that value, or if you can't communicate that value to the customer, you're in trouble.

I can't say I envy wedding photogs at all. That sh*t is too much like hard work. I like having my Fridays/Saturdays to myself and my family.

johnmcdnl

kelly1 wrote: »

I suppose it's like any trade/profession. You'll always have the cowboys who've had no training calling themselves professional.

How could you do a wedding for €320 and make a living? He can't be a pro. There could be 2 days of processing a wedding shoot!

maybe he's a very good amateur/semi pro with a day job as well...

has a few spare hours and loves photography so he goes for it and gets this wedding for 320 - so he gets a few extra euro for himself on the side and gets to spend a day shooting and a few evenings on photoshop tricking around

end of the day he could be just as good but because he's not a full time pro the "proper pros" are going to take cheap shots at him..

now I know that there could be a lot of chancers out there but at what stage can a person go out and do there first wedding - and for your first wedding can you justify charging a full photographer's rate either..

smelltheglove

Borderfox wrote: »

I love every one I participate at from the start to the end, such a diversity of light/work/people/locations really keep me on my toes. I love a long day's work and have my editing down to a tee now. In terms of providing better pictures a good photographer will always (in theory) as they dont have the emotional connection to the couple as the guests have. I really and honestly am living a dream

+1. I spoke to someone last night that was after getting into wedding photography, I was at a gig and he asked about gear etc and got chatting anyway, turns out his dream is to work in music photography, whereas like you mine is weddings just like you and I think we are very fortunate to do what we love.

As far as the way photography is going, it is getting tougher and tougher, expectations are higher and perception of value is lower. How do you get around it? You get around it by offering something special not by dropping your prices, although you can drop prices if you want you need to think are you undervaluing yourself? The more in demand you are the more valuable your time is, so say you have time for 30 weddings a year and you have 40 couples wanting to book you, well you are worth more than 320. If you are charging 1k or 2k at this stage when you have to turn people away then most likely you will be able to raise your prices. If you usually book 30 and you only have 20 weddings then I would see it as vice versa, most likely money is an issue and a little drop may help get those extra clients in.

paulusdu

Im getting married later in the year, so we have had the whole "meet the photographer and ask all the questions gig". Im comfortable in my own little element taking photos, out and about, landscapes, all that sort of informal stuff. I sort of got roped into being an unofficial wedding photographer, just because i was the one with the biggest camera at a friend of my Other half's wedding.

I don;t envy wedding photographers, its tough going, and i never appreciated how tough it can be. 200+ photos later and processing them takes time (and im sure real photographers take multiples of that number).I never thought about lighting, external flashes, getting people to pose was like herding cats !

Its a tough job, but i have to say, strangely rewarding (im still trawling through tutorials and tip on how to process wedding photos). I didn;t charge anything but i can now see how a lot of photographers that quoted me for my wedding were justified in their prices (i still think some were chancing their arms)

I guess a lot of people have a budget and photography is not seen as that important for some of them, so if some one can cut 300 euro of their budget that may be more important for them than potentially higher quality photos.

Borderfox

One other thing to consider when talking to clients is that after 20 years the only memories of the day will be in their head and in the photo's/album of the day. One wedding I did last year they spent more on the cake than me, albeit an expensive (very tasty) cake

tiffmister

32finn wrote: »

Apologies for this everyone but, i feel this could turn into a bit of a rant!!

As the title say's, where do you see photography heading?
I know that the digital age has made photography more accessible to everybody and i think that is a good thing, but, as a profession/career is photography now been undermined or taken for granted??

Why do i ask? I recently gave a couple that i know, albeit not very well a price for there wedding, which at first they seemed happy enough with.
I have since got a call from the bride to say she has hired someone who will give her the same package i offered for 320 euro!
The package being full day coverage and an album!!!! Now ill admit that is a hell of a lot cheaper that what i priced it.
I don't know the nitty gritty details of the package but this guy is going to travel from Louth to Kildare and provide an album for this!

I know it's been on tread here numerous times before about someone who decides to get themselves a decent camera and suddenly are professional photographers.
And don't get me wrong, i understand that we all had to start somewhere and we all need to build up portfolio's to get going, trust me i've been there!

I guess what im trying to get across here is, is it too easy to pick up a camera and enter the world of photography?
If for this reason is photography for you not maybe as appreciated as much as it should be?

God damn, i knew i would start ranting sorry!

I think this post addressed this issue also ( i feel your pain)
http://www.lifestylephotography.ie/blog/news/10-reasons-professional-photographers-charge/

showit

i gave a couple a price recently - i phoned the bride on friday for an update - she told me a new one -

- She found a photographer who is giving her 3 albums, yes 3 full size 40 page albums for 700 euro, plus disk and all day coverage to dance - She says they were Graphi Albums ( which i doubt) - she plans to give two of the albums to their parents.

Now how on earth can you claim to be a Pro, earning a living and giving someone 3 albums for 700 euro -

you are earning zero profit from such a price

Im finding this year that the arse has fallen through for wedding photography

Fionn

showit wrote: »

i gave a couple a price recently - i phoned the bride on friday for an update - she told me a new one -

- She found a photographer who is giving her 3 albums, yes 3 full size 40 page albums for 700 euro, plus disk and all day coverage to dance - She says they were Graphi Albums .................

for your next job you should hire him and sit back and think of the profits

I was at a niece's wedding two or three years ago and the photographer they hired (very good local amateur photographer, landscapes/wildlife) but certainly not a guy for portraiture or weddings, had no clue what he was doing and subsequently made a balls of their day - don't know if they ever got the photographs!! the sad thing is, that couples only realise this when it's too late.

I remember hiring a carpenter to put in a press and he asked me did i want a €70 one, a €150 one or a €300 one? lots of times you get what you pay for!!

Borderfox

This is a real problem, I dont mind comparing like for like but this is ridiculous. She will probably get one large album and two mini ones, and even at that there would be very little profit out of that.

The simple answer to your last question is there not..

showit wrote: »

i gave a couple a price recently - i phoned the bride on friday for an update - she told me a new one -

- She found a photographer who is giving her 3 albums, yes 3 full size 40 page albums for 700 euro, plus disk and all day coverage to dance - She says they were Graphi Albums ( which i doubt) - she plans to give two of the albums to their parents.

Now how on earth can you claim to be a Pro, earning a living and giving someone 3 albums for 700 euro -

you are earning zero profit from such a price

Im finding this year that the arse has fallen through for wedding photography

32finn

showit wrote: »

i gave a couple a price recently - i phoned the bride on friday for an update - she told me a new one -

- She found a photographer who is giving her 3 albums, yes 3 full size 40 page albums for 700 euro, plus disk and all day coverage to dance - She says they were Graphi Albums ( which i doubt) - she plans to give two of the albums to their parents.

Now how on earth can you claim to be a Pro, earning a living and giving someone 3 albums for 700 euro -

you are earning zero profit from such a price

Im finding this year that the arse has fallen through for wedding photography

700 euro for 3 Graphi albums!!!!!! I would only love to find out who that photog is dealing with in Graphi, i want to deal with them also:D

Have to agree with borderfox that that sort of thing is totally ridiculous. How the photog is managing a package like that for 700 euro truly is mind bogling. I for one could not compete with something like that, not even close to be honest, its totally inconceivable.

pixbyjohn

showit wrote: »

i gave a couple a price recently - i phoned the bride on friday for an update - she told me a new one -

- She found a photographer who is giving her 3 albums, yes 3 full size 40 page albums for 700 euro, plus disk and all day coverage to dance - She says they were Graphi Albums ( which i doubt) - she plans to give two of the albums to their parents.

Now how on earth can you claim to be a Pro, earning a living and giving someone 3 albums for 700 euro -

you are earning zero profit from such a price

Im finding this year that the arse has fallen through for wedding photography

I am very curious as to what you think he should have charged her for the above package.

pixbyjohn

32finn wrote: »

I have since got a call from the bride to say she has hired someone who will give her the same package i offered for 320 euro!
The package being full day coverage and an album!!!!

How much would you have charged her ?

showit

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I am very curious as to what you think he should have charged her for the above package.

This package would cost alot more than 700 - Try 3 times that & even still that would be good value

Its the first time i have heard of a photog offering 3 full size albums

The price must consider -

- The Albums are expensive
- The 8 hours Coverage on the day
- The 2 days processing of Images / Designing Album
- The added time due to changes in album design at bride request
- Advertising / insurance / Taxes / Petrol / equipment
- & not forgetting making a Profit !

pixbyjohn

showit wrote: »

This package would cost alot more than 700 - Try 3 times that & even still that would be good value

€2,100.00 Thank you for your answer.

PCPhoto

I had a quick google on "Graphi Albums" and found this on a site:

Pricing: Graphi albums go all over the board as far as pricing is concerned. A 40 side 8x12 album, with steel or metal cover, starts off at $1495. Obviously, the larger the albums get, and the more pages that are added, the more expensive these albums become. Yet, once you buy into a Graphi album package, you may be shocked how inexpensive the extras cost. Of all the album packages we offer, Graphi Studio is by far the best value.

32finn

pixbyjohn wrote: »

How much would you have charged her ?

My cheapest album package at the moment is a 40 page photobook (whick i purchase from shakespere using my own design) is 1050 euro.
When it comes to the Graphi albums the cheapest they start at is 1350 euro.