Double Cab Pick-Up Questions

Mark#1

Hi.

I like double cab pick-ups. For all the reasons that most people who like them do - including that they look cool. No-one buys a car (by choice) that they don't like the look of. Or do they?

I've driven a Cherokee for 3 months, and owned & driven a HiLux Surf for a year, and owned & driven a Discovery for a year, as well as owning & driving my down-trodden but trusty 260,000-km 1.5 Corolla for 10 years. I'm familiar with how jeeps/4WDs handle & drive, and I'm ok with them.

I may be in a position to persuade my employer to fund or part-fund the purchase of a 5-10 year old double cab for work, but which I'll also use as my 2nd car for family events (2 adults, 3 kids). The work involves 800-1000kms a week, and could occasionally include towing a 6m boat. There'd be very little real off-road driving.

For the same money, I'd personally prefer a double-cab pick-up to a "normal" car.

There seem to be loads of "poser" trucks out there which don't seem to do very much of the work that these cars were presumably originally intended to do, so is it reasonable to expect to find a good one (clean, well-looked after, un-damaged, low-ish miles, not worked-to-the-bone on a farm or builder's yard) for reasonable money?

So, here are my questions:

Where do you go in ROI or NI to buy a good double-cab pick-up (dealers would be preferrable)?
Are they taxed as commercial vehicles or passenger vehicles?
Do the insurance companies consider them to be commercial or private (passenger) vehicles?
Of the models out there, which should one steer clear of?
Are there any that are inherently worse than the others?
Which offer best mpg?
Which are most reliable/least troublesome?
Which are most comfy?
Which has the most expensive service/spare parts costs & availability?
Other than this list, are there any other models I should be thinking about?

Toyota HiLux
Mitsubishi L200
Nissan Navara
Ford Ranger
Isuzu D-Max


If anyone can direct me to websites that will help I'd be grateful.

Thanks,

Mark

Anan1

I understand that you like the look of them, and that'd be fine if you were doing limited mileage. Doing 800-1000kms a week in a pick-up instead of a car, though, is an act of serious masochism. Given the vehicles you list as having driven so far, a good car will be a complete revelation to you. Just my 2c.

Juniorhurler

I drove an L200 and a d-max. L200 was a pig. D-max is much more comfy imo. Tax issues are discussed in a huge thread titled "new rules for taxing vans/jeeps as commercial".

Mark#1

I've also driven a 99 Santa Fe, a 06 Galaxy, a 07 Mercedes E-something, a 04 Discovery, a 1978 Holden Gemini, and I also own & drive a 98 Alhambra. Best car of the lot is without question the 94 Corolla. I'm not aware any other car taking so much abuse (not real, actual abuse - I mean metaphorically) but requiring so little care, and giving so much back.

I hear the masochism comment, but are mid-00s pick-ups really that bad?

The vast majority of the 800 weekly kms is typically accumulated on the drive to the job site on Monday, and the drive home on Friday, with the rest made up of daily moving around.


Thanks,

Mark

squod

Mark#1 wrote: »

. Best car of the lot is without question the 94 Corolla. are mid-00s pick-ups really that bad?



Thanks,

Mark

Anan1 wrote: »

serious masochism

Serious!

101sean

In the eyes of the Revenue you'll have to tax it privately, you could chance commercial if you meet the conditions and ignore the social use, just don't get pulled towing the boat. Insurance depends on what you are using it for at work although some insurance companies wont privately insure commercials going by some of the other threads on here and the 4x4 forum.

If you end up taxing privately you may as well have a proper 4x4 rather than compromise on comfort and ride (many have extra hard rear springs to get round the rules), as for a crew cab looking cool, they are a passing fad with too much nasty plastic and their numbers boosted by a dubious road tax dodge (but I'm biased, the only proper crew cab is a Defender 130 )

If you have to worry about mpg with a big 4x4 you don't want one, 28mpg would be average

There's several threads on reliability, spares etc over here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1068

mandrake04

Toyota Hilux SR5 3.0L TD awesome bit of kit.

galwaytt

Mark#1 wrote: »

... The work involves 800-1000kms a week, and could occasionally include towing a 6m boat.

101sean wrote: »

In the eyes of the Revenue you'll have to tax it privately, you could chance commercial if you meet the conditions and ignore the social use, just don't get pulled towing the boat.

They way OP wrote it.........am I reading it right, or does OP pull a boat for work.......??....in which case, tow away !

Mark#1

Yep, boat will be for work, and won't be on the long trips, AFAIK.

Is it always the case that the pick-up variants of 4x4 estates have leafs in place of coils on the back?

So if you guys don't see a pick-up as a viable motor for what I'm doing, what else is there? I don't want a car, nor a big 4x4 (Land Cruiser, Discover, Pathfinder, etc), and I want a softroader even less (Freelander, Vitara, X-Trail, etc). I loved my HiLux Surf, I like the Pajero Sport and I like the Defender 90, though I've never driven either.

The need to accommodate 2 adults & 3 kids at the weekends kind of dictates that if it's not a pickup, it's got to be a 4x4 estate - SWB commercials won't suit.

I'd not considered going back to using any 4x4 till I got the job I currently have, where a 4x4 type car would suit the image & business of the employer (civil engineer) - I just think that me showing up to locations in a liveried pick-up or 4x4 would really look a lot better than arriving in my 260,000km Corolla (it's a great car, but I'm not deluded), or even any other "normal" car - the company name on the side of a pick-up would surely be a good thing, and you can't really get away with a liveried normal car.

Again, is the modern (for me, that's the last 10 years) pick-up really that bad a drive?


Thanks,

Mark

Anan1

Be careful about confusing your own ideas of what looks well with those of your clients. Personally, i'd have grave reservations about the abilities of a civil engineer who has chosen to drive something as inherently unstable as a double-cab pickup.

Yes, compared to a good car, a pickup will be appalling to drive. So are the Hilux Surf, Pajero Sport, and especially the Defender 90, although at least the Defender can set off-road ability against being a pig on tarmac.

What sets your situation apart, though, is the mileage you're doing - at 800kms/week and with three kids you need something that'll be safe and will leave you as fresh as possible when your work is over.

Why not buy a good car for work and an older Defender as a weekend toy?

101sean

I misread it as towing a boat for pleasure!

A lot of full size 4x4s have a smaller footprint (or should that be roadprint?!) than crew cabs and many big cars, even a full fat Range Rover is shorter than a Mondeo estate.

Pajero Sport and Defender 90 won't suit family wise but you're excluding a lot with Landcruiser, Discovery etc. Image wise it's a difficult one these days, you need a 4x4 to get some places but many people have a poor view of them (definitely wouldn't want to turn up in a black Range Rover Sport:rolleyes:) Land Cruiser or Discovery without any bling probably give best image, crew cab wise the same really, you might have have to unbolt a lot of chrome and plastic!

For an opinion and info on crew cab specs you're more likely to get an answer on the 4x4 forum, maybe ask the mods to shift this?

Fishtits

You will have to tax it privately to stay honest.

Buy a 7 seater 4x4, more comfort, same economy, better traction, same cost.

YouTookMyName

Anan1 wrote: »

Yes, compared to a good car, a pickup will be appalling to drive.

I've driven worse cars,that some people would see as good cars, compared to a double cab pick up.



1 thing on buying a double cab OP if you are going for a canopy on the bed it is almost impossible to keep it 100% water proof from the elements.

Buffman

Another one you might keep in mind is the Isuzu TFS, the predecessor of the D-Max.
Its low and long, and is very stable on the road. It doesn't roll much in corners etc.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_Rodeo

doctorchopper

I have a 2003 navara d22 and love it, never had any serious problems with it, it has plenty of power (new d40's have even more) as far as handling its very capable, not much body roll, in fact it would be as good as most average cars (its no audi or bmw, it is what it is) I can average close to 30 mpg for fuel economy. I have never towed with mine but have had a ton bag of sand in it before, suspension was very low but still had plenty of power. I've driven a dmax and didn't like it as much as the navara, not as much power and not as comfortable. Might be biased as i own one but just my opinion. It is a bit of a rough ride when empty as it is designed to carry weight, but once it has 100 kg in it its nice and smooth. I know the hilux is more like a car for ride quality. I don't understand why anyone would doubt your abilities as a engineer based on the vehicle you drive

Eric Cartman

I think my d-max is very comfortable , lots for sale 2nd hand with the leather etc on them. You will have to tax privately, I have mine as a commercial, I do about 800-1000km a week and find it grand to drive around in. I have the automatic as I drive around dublin city a lot and Im still getting roughly 28-30mpg from the 3 litre. Dont understand peoples complaints about crewcabs , I know its not going to corner the best (anyone who gets into a pickup and expects it to handle like an m5 is crazier than the rest of us anyway) Just dont buy one with 20" wheels and youll be grand

coolbeans

We've got a '08 3.0L Hilux Invincible with all the goodies; satnav, leather, reverse parking sensor, air con etc. For mileage though there's no doubt about it I'd prefer to be driving a regular car. The Hilux, like the rest of 'em is a truck at the end of the day. It drives like a truck, uses juice like a truck, handles and rides like a truck. It's a great machine and all that but there's absolutely no way in hell I'd do several hundred KMs per week in it. I'd want a car. Leave the farm vehicles on the farm.

In fairness it did do a highly respectable 33mpg average before we put the canopy on the back. Now it does about 28mpg. Boo

coolbeans

doctorchopper wrote: »

in fact it would be as good as most average cars

No, it really wouldn't. Handling road holding wise, you'd wanna be comparing it to some REALLY ****ty cars and even then most ****ty cars will beat a Ute in terms of ride and handling.

doctorchopper

coolbeans wrote: »

No, it really wouldn't. Handling road holding wise, you'd wanna be comparing it to some REALLY ****ty cars and even then most ****ty cars will beat a Ute in terms of ride and handling.

as far as handling i am comparing it to the likes of a yaris or escort, so ya crappy cars. But i'd still have no problem doing 150-200 km a day in it, as long as someone else was paying for diesel.:D Back in canada i'd think nothing of doing 7-800 km in one days driving in a f150 double cab 4x4. In fact i'd average 30-40000km a year and the ride quality very close to my navara's maybe a bit smoother as it is longer. Take the transit van that did the nurburgring lap and was passing the likes of porsches and bmw's motorbikes ect..... A lot if it's down to the driver and driver preferance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pklvKKnd0&feature=related

mandrake04

coolbeans wrote: »

No, it really wouldn't. Handling road holding wise, you'd wanna be comparing it to some REALLY ****ty cars and even then most ****ty cars will beat a Ute in terms of ride and handling.

You are completely deluded how would a sh!tty banger beat a bog standard HSV R8 Maloo ute for power or handling

6.2L V8 317 Off the showroom floor its 425 horses... like to see a crappy 1.1 fiesta keeping up with this.

Mark#1

My 94 Corolla will out-handle ANY other car on the road. After I replace the rear shocks. And fit new brake discs, pads and shoes. And replace the exhaust silencer. But only cos I'm awesome.

So back on earth... or more specifically, Ireland (where I'm guessing V8 Maloos are probably pretty rare)...

I met a guy with a Ford Ranger he imported from the UK. He loves it.

I guess if you simply like something, you'll forgive it its faults/quirks, when another person might not.

Personally, I just like "trucks". Immature, maybe, but hey - I don't care. I still like Rage Against The Machine, Miwadi & Star Wars.

I loved my Disco & my HiLux Surf, enjoyed time with a 97 Cherokee, loved my 6-week rental Ford Explorer when I was training in California. I just like jeeps/pick-ups.

Like Marty McFly said - "Hey! Check out that 4x4!"

So where would a man like me go to peruse a huge selection of used 4x4s in the flesh? Estates & pick-ups are both on the radar. ROI? NI?

Thanks,

Mark

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Dont understand peoples complaints about crewcabs , I know its not going to corner the best

Or ride the best, or go the best, or stop the best, or do mpg the best, or crash the safest...

If you need a crewcab to carry a crew to a site, fair enough.

If you don't need one, buying one instead of a family car is just mad.

keithclancy

Jaysus .. 1000km per Week in a Hilux especially towing stuff.. your talking around 700 - 800 euros / month in Fuel alone.

Never mind the maintenence costs.

I'd say factor in around 10k / year in running costs (fuel/insurance/servicing etc).

Anan1

Mark#1 wrote: »

I guess if you simply like something, you'll forgive it its faults/quirks, when another person might not.

If I had three young kids I wouldn't be so forgiving of 'faults/quirks' like shortcomings in passive & active safety. At least your liking for Rage Against The Machine, Miwadi & Star Wars won't endanger you or your family. It's your decision, but at 1000kms a week I think Zubeneschamali's being pretty gentle when he describes it as 'mad'.

T-Maxx

I drove a Ford Ranger for 3 years and was very happy with it. (2.5l diesel). Tough as nails, and very nippy. Only thing I didn't like was it's huge turning radius.

With regards to safety, I think a lot of people are disillusioned. I was very happy driving my 3 in the back. BTW, I hope your 3 are still fairly small or that you won't be doing the 800-1000km/week with 3 bigger children - the rear bench is kinda low.

coolbeans

mandrake04 wrote: »

You are completely deluded how would a sh!tty banger beat a bog standard HSV R8 Maloo ute for power or handling

6.2L V8 317 Off the showroom floor its 425 horses... like to see a crappy 1.1 fiesta keeping up with this.

Your point is relevant to the topic how? You just wasted a load of bandwidth with your pointless oversized pictures.

Mark#1

The big mileage would be alone, not towing. I live in Dublin and currently all my work is in Cork, so I've a long drive down early Monday morning, and back home on Friday evening. The miles between B&B and site is typically minimal.

Towing isn't a deffo yet - my employer may have some work for me that may involve towing a 6m RIB, not for long distances, as I understand things.

In time, I hope to have a boat of my own - under 23' or so, no more than 1200kg + trailer. I'd hope whatever 4x4 I might get will be capable of pulling that. I'd expect that to typically be the 3km or so from home to slipway, but occasionally further afield.

The kid's (and/or anyone else) safety is of course important. Is the robust impression that 4x4s portray a falsehood? Are their occupants less safe than occupants of other vehicles? I had to remove the driver side door inner panel to replace the lock barrel of my Surf (who tries to steal a 91 Surf?), and noted that there was no bracing in the door at all - just the outer skin and the door frame. My Corolla has a strong horizontal brace in the door (had to free off a sticking electric window motor).

I'd assume more modern vehicles (from mid- late-nineties on) have decent safety?

Thanks,

Mark

Mar4ix

i heard lexus diesel 4x4s are good.... but bit expensive.

you get what you paid for.

Anan1

Mark#1 wrote: »

The kid's (and/or anyone else) safety is of course important. Is the robust impression that 4x4s portray a falsehood? Are their occupants less safe than occupants of other vehicles?

Robust and safe are two different things. To answer your question, though, a crew cab is less safe in every way than an equivalent car. It handles more poorly to begin with, you'll be more tired driving it, and if you do crash then you and anyone else involved will come off a lot worse than they would in a car. Basically, if safety's important then forget the idea.

Zubeneschamali

Mark#1 wrote: »

Is the robust impression that 4x4s portray a falsehood? Are their occupants less safe than occupants of other vehicles?

Yes, stats from the UK say a 4x4 is twice as likely to roll over in a crash compared to a car, and rollovers are about 10 times more likely to kill the occupants according to US stats.

coolbeans

Mar4ix wrote: »

i heard lexus diesel 4x4s are good.... but bit expensive.

you get what you paid for.

No such thing...in the EU at least.

Mark#1

So are we saying forget just crew/double-cabs, but that 4x4 estates are ok?

The main ride for the kids will continue to be our Alhambra. Frequency of occupants other than myself will be pretty low.

Whatever I replace my Corolla with will need to be able to lug stuff - I'm in a band, and I'm an angler, and go camping reasonably regularly, and we have kayaks too. Not as often as I'd like, but you get what I mean.

Owning my own boat is a while away yet, but I prefer not to change cars often (Corolla 11 years, Alhambra 5), so I'd like the replacement to be the eventual tow car. Slipways, dirt roads to lakes - 4WD will probably be very advantageous, if not essential. It'll need pulling power, space for 2 adults + 3 kids (or occasionally 4 adults).

A 4x4 estate or double-cab pick-up seems to be the only logical route? I know Subaru & Volvo do 4WD estate cars, but they have lower tow-ratings, and like I said, I just like jeeps/pick-ups.

How come crew-cabs are available for sale if they're so unsafe?

Thanks,

Mark

Anan1

Mark#1 wrote: »

A 4x4 estate or double-cab pick-up seems to be the only logical route? I know Subaru & Volvo do 4WD estate cars, but they have lower tow-ratings, and like I said, I just like jeeps/pick-ups.

Drive an awd estate car and you'll change your mind straight away - they're superior in every way. Other than that, it's your family and your choice.

Mark#1 wrote: »

How come crew-cabs are available for sale if they're so unsafe?

Crew cabs were never designed for your intended use, it's like saying you want to commute on a tractor.

Welease

My 2c... if you like the look of crew cabs then you'll likely be happy with one (if you dont mind the fuel bills)..

I have had a L200 Trojan Crew Cab for the last 5 years, do 5-700Km a week and take the family out at the weekends/vacations.. Perfect vehicle for me..

It's heavy on fuel, so I tend to keep the speed down to legal levels which makes the handling and consumption much better.. The main thing is to drive it like a crew cab, not a car.. then you won't have any issues...

Cost wise.. I would seriously consider the cost of doing 1000Km per week with private tax on a 2.5/3L vehicle before you buy.. It will cost considerably more to run than a car. I wouldn't swap my current L200.. but i will seriously consider whether i get another crew cab next time on the cost issue alone.

pburns

I have a 4wd pick-up (Navara) and a car (an AWD one actually). There's night and day difference between the two for road use. I've only had the pick-up on the motorway twice in about 3 years. When I saw lads using these as everyday cars racking up big mileages during the building boom I wondered did they need their head examined. Grand for local stuff, as a go-anywhere giant wheel-barrow for off-road but I'd HATE to be stuck with it every day. And that's before we even get around to fuel consumption...

800kms a week?? Eh...no thanks...and I'm not really into the Marlboro man look anyway...

Mark#1

Mods, can you guys move this to the 4x4 forum? I didn't realise on posting that there was a 4x4 sub-forum.


Thanks,

Mark

YouTookMyName

pburns wrote: »

I have a 4wd pick-up (Navara)

What year?