New stations at Oranmore and Crusheen

Rud

Straight from Irish Rails website.....

http://irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=998

KevR

Why do they say that Oranmore station will be on the Galway-Limerick line and it will offer onward connections to Dublin? Will Galway-Dublin trains not stop in Oranmore and pass straight through with plenty of spare seats?!?!

I really hope it's just a badly worded article - it would be pointless to build a new commuter station if only a few trains will be stopping there.

dowlingm

Noooooo! Not Crusheen. Was nothing learned from Tumbleweed 1 and 2 (ardrahan and craughwell). There better be some passing loops in this plan, especially at Oranmore.

Zebra3

Is there an election on the way? :rolleyes:

munchkin_utd

dowlingm wrote: »

Noooooo! Not Crusheen. Was nothing learned from Tumbleweed 1 and 2 (ardrahan and craughwell). There better be some passing loops in this plan, especially at Oranmore.

nope
Its a single platform on the southern side of the line

planning application is here
EDIT : working link - http://www.galway.ie/PlanningSearch/ - then reference = 101877

maps and diagrams are also linked in there, but you need to install djvu to see them.

corktina

just about sums up this line...too cheap to be a sucess, too dear for the nation to afford.

KevR

Oranmore station is too far from the town, too far from Oranmore Business Park and too far from the M6 junction (it's a nice bit out of the way for anyone considering P&R and they will have to cross the N18 level crossing + drive through some of the town).

This is because of bad planning - buildings in Oranmore Business Park are right up on top of the rail line. They should have left enough space for a decent sized station. Those buildings don't need to be right on top of the line, it would have made no difference for them to be 250/300m back from the line instead. In fact it would have been better for the businesses in those buildings if they were a little bit away from the line - they would have had a train station on their doorstep. A simple pedestrian bridge over the N6 and directly into the station/business park could have been built to connect Oranmore town.

Same applies to the rail line on the other side of the N18 - stuff built right up on top of it.

munchkin_utd

best of all,
the industrial area is just 100 metres away from the station
BUT
its half hour walk to it as you cannot simply walk back the line from the station to the estate!!

see what i mean?
http://maps.google.de/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Claregalway+Rd&daddr=Unknown+road&geocode=FbsCLQMdMLp3_w%3BFT3uLAMdb4V3_w&hl=en&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=53.279046,-8.932185&sspn=0.010046,0.027874&ie=UTF8&ll=53.277647,-8.935168&spn=0.010046,0.027874&t=h&z=16

KevR

They really need to build a walkway (with a footbridge over the old N6 DC) from the station directly to the Business Park.

glineli

KevR wrote: »

Oranmore station is too far from the town, too far from Oranmore Business Park and too far from the M6 junction (it's a nice bit out of the way for anyone considering P&R and they will have to cross the N18 level crossing + drive through some of the town).

This is because of bad planning - buildings in Oranmore Business Park are right up on top of the rail line. They should have left enough space for a decent sized station. Those buildings don't need to be right on top of the line, it would have made no difference for them to be 250/300m back from the line instead. In fact it would have been better for the businesses in those buildings if they were a little bit away from the line - they would have had a train station on their doorstep. A simple pedestrian bridge over the N6 and directly into the station/business park could have been built to connect Oranmore town.

Same applies to the rail line on the other side of the N18 - stuff built right up on top of it.

From this location would it not be possible to have a path to the existing bridge over the N18 and then a path to the business park?

dowlingm

Looking at the planning docs: I'd certainly hope that on completion of the N6 link road that the LC (XG167 on the map) on the adjacent road will be fully closed given the increasing number of services over the line and with a view to doubletracking.

mrsdewinter

munchkin_utd wrote: »

nope
Its a single platform on the southern side of the line

Cripes. You're joking! So if I'm getting the train to Dublin from Oranmore, I'll have to take the train into Ceannt Station first, cool my heels there until the Dublin train departs, and then pass through Oranmore again, half an hour (or more) after I left?

Does Irish Rail hate us?

+1 on observations re the location. It doesn't make any sense any more. Gurraun was selected as a location on the back of assumptions that the Ardaun corridor would be a thriving new town. Seems like a long time ago now, doesn't it?

CIE

Rud wrote: »

Straight from Irish Rails website.....

http://irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=998

Says "subject to planning approval being granted".

KevR

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Cripes. You're joking! So if I'm getting the train to Dublin from Oranmore, I'll have to take the train into Ceannt Station first, cool my heels there until the Dublin train departs, and then pass through Oranmore again, half an hour (or more) after I left?

You will be able to get a Dublin train from Oranmore - both Westbound and Eastbound trains will stop. There is only one platform and track in the station so only one train can be in the station at any one time.

I'm presuming that Galway-Dublin-Galway trains will stop at Oranmore. The article on the Irish Rail website seemed to suggest that only Limerick trains will be stopping there and people will be able to get "onward connections" to Dublin and other destinations. It would be totally insane if they decide to run Galway-Dublin-Galway trains through the station without stopping. Loads of spare capacity on these trains.

highlydebased

Sums up IE. A half arsed attempt. Oranmore might be justified IF it was nearer to the town centre and had a proper parking setup and a passing loop. But, no. Its actually very annoying to see this. I wonder can I object on those grounds?

dowlingm

Presumably one arrangement might be to send the Limerick train out first from Galway, pick up in Oranmore, drop off in Athenry and head for Limerick with the Dublin train running up behind it having run express through Oranmore to pick up the Oranmore passengers.

KevR

I think it will be pointless building the station at all if it's only going to have 10 (5 each way) Limerick trains stopping and 2 (1 each way) more commuter services which are being introduced in March.

The non-stop buses between Galway and Dublin are already faster than the train. Having Dublin trains stop at Oranmore will only add on a few mins to Galway-Dublin journey times.

Having all trains stop at Oranmore would mean 32 trains per day (16 each way) once the new commuter services are introduced. That's the type of frequency that will be needed to make a commuter station like Oranmore a success. Otherwise, I think it will be a flop.

foggy_lad

KevR wrote: »

I think it will be pointless building the station at all if it's only going to have 10 (5 each way) Limerick trains stopping and 2 (1 each way) more commuter services which are being introduced in March.

The non-stop buses between Galway and Dublin are already faster than the train. Having Dublin trains stop at Oranmore will only add on a few mins to Galway-Dublin journey times.

Having all trains stop at Oranmore would mean 32 trains per day (16 each way) once the new commuter services are introduced. That's the type of frequency that will be needed to make a commuter station like Oranmore a success. Otherwise, I think it will be a flop.

Not to mention the thousands of passengers that will be required.

KevR

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not to mention the thousands of passengers that will be required.

Do you mean per week/month? I doubt you mean thousands per day.. Oranmore will generate a lot more passengers than stations such as Crusheen, Ardrahan, Craughwell and many other stations on a number of different railway lines throughout the whole entire country.

The location could have been so much better had it not been for terrible planning decisions. Better location would have mean a lot more passengers.


Also, I am assuming that they are not going to be charging anything near the €11 return price that is charged from Athenry at the moment. People will not(!) switch from their cars at that price. I'm assuming prices to Ceannt from Oranmore will be a lot more appealing and that Athenry fares will get reduced also. Athenry-Oranmore-Galway is most definitely a commuter route, the prices should reflect that.

corktina

16 trainsloads would need several thousands to make them viable!...

IMHO Oranmore should be opened and the other little halts shut down!

dubhthach

This might sound like a stupid question but why are they not using the old station site? After all it's considerably more convenient to Oranmore/Business Parks/N18/M6

Old Station

dowlingm

Apparently it's a private residence (says so in planning docs) and IE presumably didn't want to have the cost of buying them out. Seems penny wise pound foolish but there you go.

L1011

What odds can I get on the platforms needing to be knocked if/when they dual the track? Such as how under a decade old platforms on the Maynooth line needed nuking...

dubhthach

MYOB wrote: »

What odds can I get on the platforms needing to be knocked if/when they dual the track? Such as how under a decade old platforms on the Maynooth line needed nuking...

I think ye get better odds on Bertie been the next resident in the áras

of course the old MG&WR was originally dual track out to Oranmore anyways. You can see it on the 25" Ordance survey map from 1892 available here: (select 25" layer)

I was at an IRRS meeting in March 2008 which was a presentation by Dick Fearn. He was making out that he received a lot of pressure from people in Crusheen but didn't see it as a viable station so didn't want to go ahead with it... three years later and it's been done. :rolleyes:

DWCommuter

Karsini wrote: »

I was at an IRRS meeting in March 2008 which was a presentation by Dick Fearn. He was making out that he received a lot of pressure from people in Crusheen but didn't see it as a viable station so didn't want to go ahead with it... three years later and it's been done. :rolleyes:

Dick Fearn is full of ****! He's a lap dog just like every other MD/CEO (or whatever they decide to call it) of Irish Rail.

dowlingm

dubhthach wrote: »

of course the old MG&WR was originally dual track out to Oranmore anyways.

Do I recall correctly that when it was singled the single track was built down the middle of the alignment? I could have sworn I heard someone say that during a discussion about doubling Galway-Athenry

oharach

dowlingm wrote: »

Do I recall correctly that when it was singled the single track was built down the middle of the alignment? I could have sworn I heard someone say that during a discussion about doubling Galway-Athenry

I remember that too. On the plus side, it's probably our first line built to Continental loading gauge (although the platforms might have something to say about that..) :rolleyes:

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

Do I recall correctly that when it was singled the single track was built down the middle of the alignment? I could have sworn I heard someone say that during a discussion about doubling Galway-Athenry

When the Sligo line was relaid in the 1990s the track was built down the middle of the alignment to reduce the severity of some bends. I wouldn't be surprised if Galway was done the same way.

dowlingm

The implication being that if Oranmore gets a passing loop, the alignment will need to be widened which will be interesting as I believe the track at that point is in a cutting?

No wait, let's rip up the platform and station and relay the track on the existing bed instead - just to be extra Irish Rail about it.

29.6

Just looking at the map, if the station was in the old location would it have implications for the level crossing as per lansdowne road. The gates are down for a long period of time there when trains are in the station. This is a very busy road would it cause traffic problems?

KevR

It is a busy road. I could be wrong but I think that the level crossing gates on Church Street (right beside the station) in Athenry only close when the train is passing the level crossing; they don't stay closed the whole time that the train is in the station.

dubhthach

Well there is also the point that if the M17/M18 gets funding that the traffic flow on the road should reduce as you remove all the long distance traffic from there.

westtip

two more stops to add another six minutes to journey times on this intercity route!

KevR

I'm not really in favour of the Crusheen stop but I am most definitely in favour of a stop at Oranmore. Oranmore will add a few extra minutes onto intercity services to Dublin as well as Limerick but the extra commuter passengers will make it worth it.

For the Galway-Limerick line I think Irish Rail should shift their focus away from trying to attract intercity passengers (if that's what focusing on currently) and focus on getting as many commuters as possible using the line at both ends. They should definitely look at a stop in Renmore (also serving GMIT). I think I remember someone saying they could alter the line slightly in Limerick and build a new stop which would serve a big residential area and Thomand Park. I'm not too familiar with Limerick but this sounds like a really good idea to me if the costs weren't prohibitive.

They are never going to able to compete with buses for intecity journeys on the Galway-Limerick route unless there is huge investment so they should focus on how they can get more commuter passengers using the line.

highlydebased

Forget the train from Thomond Park and such residential areas. The station would firstly be too far away. Secondly, there is a very frequent bus from these areas to town for 1.60. I doubt the train would beat that, the bus drops on O' Connell Street, the train station is up the top of town. Would make little sense, IMO.

KevR

Might not be massive uptake from Limerick City Centre to Thomand but I would imagine that it would be beneficial for people from Ennis direction who are going to matches.

Hungerford

Karsini wrote: »

I was at an IRRS meeting in March 2008 which was a presentation by Dick Fearn. He was making out that he received a lot of pressure from people in Crusheen but didn't see it as a viable station so didn't want to go ahead with it... three years later and it's been done. :rolleyes:

You have to remember though that Fearn isn't running a transport company but a political body which was until recently answerable to a government desperate to shore up its support in the West.

dowlingm

A station at Longpavement would serve LIT on weekdays and save punters from having to go back into town. It would add journey time but with loops there and Sixmilebridge and resignalling there might be a chance of raising speeds/cutting delays waiting for a slot.

L1011

29.6 wrote: »

Just looking at the map, if the station was in the old location would it have implications for the level crossing as per lansdowne road. The gates are down for a long period of time there when trains are in the station. This is a very busy road would it cause traffic problems?

This does raise the question as to why gates need to be down when a static train is in the adjoining station. The ever increasing number of trains passing through Clonsilla and the adjoining gates means the road through them is becoming unusable during peak times.

If a train isn't moving, why is it a gate risk? The Clonsilla gates in particular are manual and all.

corktina

its because the gates are interlocked with the signals. If the train is signalled the gates have to be shut and locked and cannot be opened until the train has gone

highlydebased

dowlingm wrote: »

A station at Longpavement would serve LIT on weekdays and save punters from having to go back into town. It would add journey time but with loops there and Sixmilebridge and resignalling there might be a chance of raising speeds/cutting delays waiting for a slot.

Do you know how far that would be from LIT?! About a 15 minute walk at least, through a slightly dodgy area

The 302 bus stops outside LIT!

With all due respect to the longpavement suggestions, its really not viable. Building it just for match days really is not worth it, BE already provide countless shuttle buses from town, and countless private operators provide park and ride from the suburbs...

dowlingm

MYOB the answer in Clonsilla is to eliminate the LC, rather than cheap out with a fix. Sadly the way things are going it might end up being the only thing that can be afforded.

Neon-Circles - first of all my point was merely to state that a station there would be more than for jollies to Thomond and the Gaelic Grounds on the weekend (though that alone would be some relief from the gridlock in the residential estates that have thousands of cars parked there on match days). I would normally assume there's no money but if there's money for Crusheen there's money for anything, and a station with 21 services (11+10) passing per weekday seems to me a better bet than one which has 5+5 - and if there's a passing loop we could see that 21 become closer to Athenry's 30+. I can't believe you have many people coming from Sixmilebridge and Ennis into Colbert and back on the 302?

If the lessons of Broombridge are learned and the Council (who has a stake because of the need for area improvement) and IE decide to ensure the station is well kept, properly patrolled, graffiti promptly removed and generally not yielded up to the skanger element then it has a chance.

As for distance, a putative station would be about 2km from the front of LIT via Kilkeely Road - Colbert is double that and has to deal with city congestion - but LIT and the City created a properly lit access from the north then it would likely be less. If the train service made a decent dent in car parking requirements they could then use that land for educational or student residence purposes.

highlydebased

dowlingm wrote: »

As for distance, a putative station would be about 2km from the front of LIT via Kilkeely Road - Colbert is double that and has to deal with city congestion - but LIT and the City created a properly lit access from the north then it would likely be less. If the train service made a decent dent in car parking requirements they could then use that land for educational or student residence purposes.

Well with all due respect, the distance is irrelevant. Properly lit or not, I would not, and I would not expect many others to, walk through that area at daytime, let alone at night. Why, would LIT students go to the hassle of walking through one of the dodgiest areas of Limerick to get a train that would most certainly be more expensive and less frequent than the bus. Neither can I fathom a station solely for matches either- as I've said before BE provide a shuttle bus on match days from the Station and City Centre directly to the gates of Thomond.


Not debunking your suggestion completely however from a local perspective it would be both inviable and downright daft.

dowlingm

If nothing is done, the area stays dodgy. This could be one of the ways that the tide is turned.

westtip

KevR wrote: »

I'm not really in favour of the Crusheen stop but I am most definitely in favour of a stop at Oranmore. Oranmore will add a few extra minutes onto intercity services to Dublin as well as Limerick but the extra commuter passengers will make it worth it.

For the Galway-Limerick line I think Irish Rail should shift their focus away from trying to attract intercity passengers (if that's what focusing on currently) and focus on getting as many commuters as possible using the line at both ends. They should definitely look at a stop in Renmore (also serving GMIT). I think I remember someone saying they could alter the line slightly in Limerick and build a new stop which would serve a big residential area and Thomand Park. I'm not too familiar with Limerick but this sounds like a really good idea to me if the costs weren't prohibitive.

They are never going to able to compete with buses for intecity journeys on the Galway-Limerick route unless there is huge investment so they should focus on how they can get more commuter passengers using the line.

As I have always said - the corridor is a collection of branch lines

Victor

I'm not seeing any planning application for Crusheen.

KevR

On mobile so can't post a link but story on galwaynews.ie saying objections against the planned station in Oranmore have been lodged.

FFS - most likely a case of NIMBYism..

Probably be delayed for ages. :mad:

Victor

KevR wrote: »

FFS - most likely a case of NIMBYism..

More likely IMBYism.

glineli

Victor wrote: »

I'm not seeing any planning application for Crusheen.

Talking to someone in Crusheen the other day who was heavily involved, he said planning will be lodged before the end of march.

what_traffic

KevR wrote: »

On mobile so can't post a link but story on galwaynews.ie saying objections against the planned station in Oranmore have been lodged.

FFS - most likely a case of NIMBYism..

Probably be delayed for ages. :mad:

I do not believe it is NIMBYism; from reading the document they submitted its main focus was on having the station closer to the village(Edit: this is debatable), rather than in Garruan. The document that was submitted is available on the Galway County Council Website. Planning No: 101877